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------------------------------

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blakes7-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 111

Today's Topics:
	 [B7L] Re: Dreams
	 Re: [B7L] Deliverance Con Report Pt2
	 [B7L] Guards, Guards in Hanley
	 [B7L] PD in Dr. Who
	 Re: [B7L] Converted Son
	 Re: [B7L] Re: Deliverance pros and cons
	 Re: [B7L] B7 Dreams
	 [B7L] Liberator
	 Re: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long)
	 [B7L] Re:  Power
	 [Fwd: Re: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long)]
	 [B7L]re Guards Guards in Hanley
	 Re: [B7L] Liberator
	 Re: [B7L] Liberator
	 Re: [B7L] Liberator
	 Re: [B7L] Power

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:01:30 EDT
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Dreams
Message-ID: <19980413.105426.9967.1.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>

> Somehow they set a trap for Servalan's brother (either that or
>she somehow got into the body of a man), who it is revealed set up fatal
>part of GP and gun down him and all his troops in a near identical
scenario
>as on GP.

Perhaps this is David Walsh?


Penny

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:06:50 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance Con Report Pt2
Message-Id: <199804131906.VAA28115@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Wendy Duffield 

>After the panel they showed some footage of PD in Macbeth followed by 
> a short TV interview with PD and the actress playing lady Macbeth
> They did tell us that it was raw footage however we saw the same 
> scene acted at least 4 times if not more <grin>
> It was lovely to see PD and Avon addicted as even i am , the same 
> scene over and over was a little much for even me to take.
> Eventually they showed the short interview, 

Rats! PD fan that I am I gave up after about the third repetition.
So there was an interview after all.

Julie Horner

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:20:43 -0700
From: Carrie Pratt <carriepr@microsoft.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Guards, Guards in Hanley
Message-ID: <5CEA8663F24DD111A96100805FFE6587056544CF@red-msg-51.dns.microsoft.com>

I will be taking a trip to England mid-May (travelling all the way from
Seattle!), and I plan to take in a performance of "Guards, Guards" in Hanley
on either May 18 or 19.  Is anyone else planning on going at this time who
would like to get together either before or after the show?  Also, does
anyone know which hotel PD will be staying at there?

Carrie

------------------------------

Date: 13 Apr 1998 13:15:44 -0700
From: "de Leon.Berta E." <berta@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] PD in Dr. Who
Message-ID: <n1319648207.12701@SSDGWY.mdc.com>

Hi Everyone!

I just watched "Dr. Who and the Siluarians(sp)" with Paul Darrow.  It was such
fun watching PD as the subordinate, efficient military second in command (very
un-Avonic).  

He was so cute in this and looked marvelous in that uniform.  Does anyone know
if there are any photos around of him from this ep?  While I'm asking, does
anyone know if there are any photos of Paul from "Making News"?

Thanks a heap!
Berta

P.S. Courtney, I loved the << Blake's 7, but Avon's a 10 >> comment.  It may be
     very old, but it's the first time *I* heard it.  ;)

     Hi Linda!  How are you?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:55:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Converted Son
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0413195556-b07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri 10 Apr, Jay McGuigan wrote:

<snip>

> Also, something else to make a mother proud, he likes Avon best!!!! 
> Can he become a Little ASS??  Followed by Dayna (actually it was the
> bow and arrow).
> 
> Now if I can use this as leverage to go to Redemption.  It's his
> birthday that weekend, wouldn't that be a nice birthday present!!!! <g>


You sound like me <grin>.  After I converted my eldest son, I bought him a
teleport bracelet and  Liberator gun for two birthdays.  The only disadvantage
of taking him to conventions is that he occasionally wants to use them himself!

My 9 year old started off liking Gan best.  Now he's ten and likes Avon.  He
also likes conventions, although I think it was the games that he enjoyed most
at Deliverance.  (I'm glad I didn't take him to Neutral Zone.  Although it's
well run, there's not much to do besides guest talks and videos)  He's
volunteered to help run the games at Redemption...

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:58:07 +1000
From: Bill Billingsley <whb@bha.oz.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Deliverance pros and cons
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980414095807.006c5c1c@rabbit>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:06 9/04/98 -0400, Harriet wrote:
>Actually - and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, though it seems a
>very faint hope as everything else has been - I'd prefer not to know who
>Diva is at this point.  Not because I want to avoid her (I assume she's
>female) 
snip.

From a purely b7 point of view, I thought Diva was male (named after
Blake's assistant/controller in 'Blake', even though ISTR that was spelt
Deeva).

I could be wrong though.


--------------------------------------------------------
The Loch Mess Monster
(occaisionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:36:25 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Reuben Herfindahl <reuben@reuben.net>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, space-city@world.std.com
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 Dreams
Message-ID: <3532BD9A.38D4@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Reuben Herfindahl wrote:
> 
> Okay, I've entered the phase of needs a brake from B7.  I had a nice
> complicated dream last night.  Maybe it's because so many 60's and 70's TV
> shows are being revived as movies, but that's what I dreamt.  It's rather
> hazy, but what I remember seems to be quite funny.
> 
> The effects were all great, but still all model work.  No computer generated
> effects.  However the actors had been "aged" digitally to appear much as
> they looked at the end of the series.
> 
> I remember the start quite clearly.  It was a slow pan across the floor with
> buzzers still blaring.  Bodies everywhere.  Federation guards, Dayna,
> Soolin, and Blake.  Fade.  Avon recovering from heavy stun with a very
> irritated Servalan pacing and furious at him for ruining her plan to trap
> Blake.
> 
> >From there my memory gets blury, but somehow Avon escapes with Villa and
> Orac.  They get pursued by an Alien vessel, which somehow managed to get
> Zen's presence loaded into it's main computer, which they adopt as the new
> Liberator.  Somehow they set a trap for Servalan's brother (either that or
> she somehow got into the body of a man), who it is revealed set up fatal
> part of GP and gun down him and all his troops in a near identical scenario
> as on GP.  The movie ends (of course) with Avon grinning.
> 
> It's odd how the mind works.  It made quite a bit of sense until I tried
> writing it down.
> 
> Reuben
> reuben@reuben.net
Sounds to me like you've watched just enough Blake's 7... you're
starting to see the start of the fifth season-- at least one version!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:02:58 +1200
From: "Lucas Young" <lyoung@bitworks.co.nz>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Liberator
Message-ID: <005401bd6749$748e5380$1963fea9@lucas>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

What a great ship, still trying to find time to build a 3D model.
Now, if Liberator could "self-regenerate" one assumes it has a copy of it's
own blueprints some where (probably on a SCSI drive...8))
all you'd need to make a NEW Liberator (which we all want) is to get hold of
another regenerator and fire in the blueprints, you'd think ORAC would know
the specs for the Liberator...

Lucas

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:42:28 +1000
From: Bill Billingsley <whb@bha.oz.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980414124228.006dd1f8@rabbit>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

oops... I accidentally replied to the person not the list.

Here it is for everyone now:

me:
>
>At 00:48 11/04/98 +0930, Ophelia wrote:
>
>>
>>"Can't we have a morotorium on the phrase "politically correct," 
>>punishable by cattle prod?  It's just the laziest form of insult I've
>>ever heard.  I've been accused of political correctness becuase
>>I don't drink coffee.  For God's sake, I just don't like coffee, okay?
>>... The phrase is used as an all-purpose, censoring insult.  "Girls
>>should be able to wear triousers."  Ooooh, politically correct, shut
>>up.  "It's probably a good idea not to cut down every tree in the 
>>country.  Oooh, politically correct, be embarassed about your 
>>opinion.  "Maybe black people shouldn't be spit on in the streets."
>>Oooh, really politically correct, go to your room."
>>
>
>Of course the bit about it that really irked me was that just about ever
debating tournament I've been involved with has had as one of the topics
"that political correctness is the new MacCarthayism".  It seems somewhat
strange that every tournament has the topic about enforcing the same ideals
on the massess...
>
>>
>>If they were deproived of their guns
>>in order to rape and enslave them, yes,
>>I would still be angry, and my analysis
>>would still hold.
>>
>
>Of course, the script-writer seemed to be doing a 'society without social
orders and boundaries' piece -- Lord of the Flies only much more naff.  The
real crime was just that it was so shallowly written rather than that it
included a bunch of hairy locals trying to have their way with the femmes.
And as for Avon's actions, well, he was never exactly a paragon of virtue
-- he started off convicted of fraud and planning to murder the entire
passenger-list of the London, so a bit of rape and pillage is not that far
out of character!  Not a good role model for the kids, but you'd have to be
worried about taking Avon as a role-model anyway!
>:-)    (bracing himself against the flames -- this isn't entirely serious.)
>
>>>2. Who amongst the Seska do the feminists identify?
>>> Pella, who decieved Dorian and killed the one other remaining
>>>Seska?
>>> Kate, who was lead so completely up the garden path?
>>
>>*I* don't identitfy them as feminist, except than
>>in that they are able to call patriarchal oppression
>>when they see it.  *Ben Mink* made them according
>>to stereotypes of feminists, which is why Pella is 
>>evil and Kate is deluded.
>>
>
>Well, if we are going to start talking stereotypes, I'd have thought the
Hommiks were much worse (men outside of civilisation being written as a
bunch of hairy grunting oafs... seen that as a stereotype before?) 
>
>I'm not sure the episode is so much sexist as just generally crap!
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------
The Loch Mess Monster
(occaisionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 03:49:00 GMT 
From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:  Power
Message-Id: <199804140356.DAA11760@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Walter Minne said:

>A couple of other things that struck me as interesting :
 >
 >It seems the Hommiks had  already reverted to their primitive culture
 >by the time of the assault Nina reports on in the historical tape ie
 >an axe is slammed into the desk before her. So where did they get a
 >Nucleic Burster from ( presumably a high tech item )

Possibly they were maintaining two cultural levels at the same time-- a
primitive level of knowledge for the general population, plus "magical"
technological devices for the priesthood or the official wizards or whatever
Cato was.  The axe-wielder would have been thinking, "Oh, good, our
priests/wizards have just zapped them with magic; now we'll finish the job."

Which could also explain why Cato had to die, as far as the Seska were
concerned.  (Too smart to live-- shades of Yamamoto Isoroku.)  If Pella
hadn't gone after him before, perhaps it was because only after she got
inside the Hommik complex and saw his lair that she realized how important
he was.

>What was Dorians relationship with the Hommiks? Why didn't he help the
 >Seska in his employ? He could easily have destroyed the Hommiks, or
 >driven them off with the weapons that he could have made or imported.
 >Maybe he was feeding Hommiks to the basement room for his alter ego.
 >Alternately, maybe he had realised that the Seska were trying to
 >betray him, and this was his pay back.

Possibly he was playing both sides off against each other deliberately, to
ensure that (a) he had an ongoing supply of basement-fodder, and (b) neither
side was likely to pose any real threat to him.  Divide and conquer.

I assume that Nina's announcement that the Hommiks were going to move
somewhere else now was the official excuse for why we never saw any of them
again on Xenon.

And speaking of "Power"-- does anyone at Horizon realize that that title had
already been used for a zine focussing specifically on the female
characters, in the U.S. about ten years ago?  I thought it was pretty
strange that, having lifted someone else's idea for a zine title based on
the name of an episode, they should then be making all that ridiculous fuss
about the name of their convention being "intellectual property" that no one
else was allowed to mention!

Someone needs to explain to Horizon that titles can't be copyrighted--
otherwise James Dickey or his estate could have sued Terry Nation, not to
mention Horizon, for lifting the title of a well-known novel and film.  I
think they can be registered as trademarks, perhaps; but that's a complete
different legal process, and I'm pretty sure it's never been done with any
of the episode titles, though something like that might possibly apply to
the series title itself.  Even then, I think it's acceptable to mention a
trademarked name as long as you give its little TM mark as well.

Sarah Thompson

P.S.  Also on the zine front-- Kathryn, thank you for reminding me of
=Refractions= #5.  I didn't have it in this version of my "add to the zine
list" list because I had already put it in, back when you first announced
it.  I confess that so far I've held off getting it for myself because I'm
not really a Highlander fan, but I'll probably succumb eventually.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:55:47 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long)]
Message-ID: <3532EC52.7B43@jps.net>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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This was originally meant to go to the whole list-- I think we are all
familiar with how close the replay and replay all buttons are!

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From: "Graham, Gregory" <GrahamG@agresearch.cri.nz>
To: "'Helen Krummenacker'" <avona@jps.net>
Subject: RE: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:35:00 +1200
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This discussion is straying a bit but here are my two cents worth.

B7 is full of strong women, I found it one of the defining aspects of
the series.  The main (and still champion) villain, the first pilot (a
_very_ male job) and the only actual freedom fighter (Cally) are women.
Later on at least two irreplacable scientist (both good guys) are women
and the best fighters in B7 are women.  In the fourth series Avon's
cunning schemes a constantly foiled by Servalan's (Gold is the best
example).  Even the cold blooded killer on GP is a women.  Even the much
maligned but physically powerful Mutiods are female(?).

The series seems to me to way ahead of other SF series.  Voyager has
introduced a strong female character but prior to that Uhura only showed
some Power once (and she was up to her eyeballs in circuitry at the
time).

Course Dr Who had She Of The Barbarian Heritage(forgive me I forgot her
name), Sarah(?), and female Timelord.  Unfortunately they were more of
an exception than otherwise(please don't flame me about the later
episode's companions, we didn't get to see many of them in NZ)

In contrast the men of B7 are defined by their flaws.  Tarrant's
arrogance, Vila's greed and cowardice (and he's my favorite character),
and Avon's coldness.  Blake's main flaw is his greatest strength, his
blind idealism.  Surely the women fare better than this?

of course, as always, "The facts, though interesting, are irrelevant".

> ===============================================
> The opinions of  this person have  little to do with reality let alone
> ==================AgResearch====================
>           EvangeList, http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com/
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Helen Krummenacker [SMTP:avona@jps.net]
> Sent:	Thursday, April 09, 1998 1:19 PM
> To:	B7 list
> Subject:	Re: [B7L] On the espidoe 'Power' (long)
> 
> Quoting Ophelia
> "Me, I don't think I'd prefer Castle Adamant
> myself, but if I lived on Xenon I'd definitely
> reconsider rather than be turned into
> a "vive la difference" doormat like Nina."
> 
> Agreed. But I still don't see how either culture is being held up as a
> standard. We align ourselves w/ Blake's 7, not with the Seskas or
> Hommiks. And, as you pointed out, Dayna could whup Vila in a fight any
> day. And I dare say Soolin could give the boys a run for their money
> mentally. Servalan is both feminine and powerful (and evil, but that's
> another problem of anti-feminist tendancies in Blake's 7... the only
> woman who isn't subordinate, is evil... but what SF show did better
> until very recent years?)
> I might also point out, that Avon seems only attracted to independent,
> capable women (Assassin being the really bad epsiode that excepted
> this... was the woman using pheremones or what? Sara couldn't fool
> Avon,
> and she tried the exact same "Helpless, cute me" act in season 1).


--------------77826BCF711A--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:41:06 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L]re Guards Guards in Hanley
Message-ID: <35330502.76B5@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Carrie Pratt wrote:
>     Also, does
> anyone know which hotel PD will be staying at there?

Why?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:35:47 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator
Message-Id: <199804140835.KAA19812@pampus.gns.getronics.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> 
> What a great ship, still trying to find time to build a 3D model.
> Now, if Liberator could "self-regenerate" one assumes it has a copy of it's
> own blueprints some where (probably on a SCSI drive...8))
> all you'd need to make a NEW Liberator (which we all want) is to get hold of
> another regenerator and fire in the blueprints, you'd think ORAC would know
> the specs for the Liberator...
> 
> Lucas
> 

Maybe we could ask ORAC to give us the info about "how to make a regenerator"

When we build that, we could use both to make the Liberator II !!! (or 3)


Now who knows a way to convince ORAC to help us.


Jeroen


PS: Secondly ... where IS orac.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 06:22:28 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator
Message-ID: <35337123.2E3A@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jeroen J. Kwast wrote:
> 
> >
> > What a great ship, still trying to find time to build a 3D model.
> > Now, if Liberator could "self-regenerate" one assumes it has a copy of it's
> > own blueprints some where (probably on a SCSI drive...8))
> > all you'd need to make a NEW Liberator (which we all want) is to get hold of
> > another regenerator and fire in the blueprints, you'd think ORAC would know
> > the specs for the Liberator...
> >
> > Lucas
> >
> 
> Maybe we could ask ORAC to give us the info about "how to make a regenerator"
> 
> When we build that, we could use both to make the Liberator II !!! (or 3)
> 
> Now who knows a way to convince ORAC to help us.
> 
> Jeroen
> 
> PS: Secondly ... where IS orac.
We tell ORAC that we're sure it's impossible with the technology
available to us, that we've been wroking over the problem for months and
haven't come up with any solution, and that I thought maybe he would
solve the problem, but everyone else says it can't be done and even if
it could, ORAC wasn't designed for such calculations and is the wrong
computer to sak. If that doesn't challenge his ego, I don't know what
would!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:21:06 +1200
From: "Lucas Young" <lyoung@bitworks.co.nz>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator
Message-ID: <00a401bd67b0$93740080$1963fea9@lucas>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Did Liberator use one of Ensor's chips? Could ORAC access Zen's data? I
think once the Gauda Prime ruse was over (Avon had enough time to plan it
before coming into the base) they dug ORAC up and used the base to rebuild
the Liberator!

-----Original Message-----
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Jeroen J. Kwast <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Date: Wednesday, 15 April 1998 01:58
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator


>Jeroen J. Kwast wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > What a great ship, still trying to find time to build a 3D model.
>> > Now, if Liberator could "self-regenerate" one assumes it has a copy of
it's
>> > own blueprints some where (probably on a SCSI drive...8))
>> > all you'd need to make a NEW Liberator (which we all want) is to get
hold of
>> > another regenerator and fire in the blueprints, you'd think ORAC would
know
>> > the specs for the Liberator...
>> >
>> > Lucas
>> >
>>
>> Maybe we could ask ORAC to give us the info about "how to make a
regenerator"
>>
>> When we build that, we could use both to make the Liberator II !!! (or 3)
>>
>> Now who knows a way to convince ORAC to help us.
>>
>> Jeroen
>>
>> PS: Secondly ... where IS orac.
>We tell ORAC that we're sure it's impossible with the technology
>available to us, that we've been wroking over the problem for months and
>haven't come up with any solution, and that I thought maybe he would
>solve the problem, but everyone else says it can't be done and even if
>it could, ORAC wasn't designed for such calculations and is the wrong
>computer to sak. If that doesn't challenge his ego, I don't know what
>would!
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 22:01 BST-1
From: majikthise@cix.compulink.co.uk (Gary Marden)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: majikthise@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [B7L] Power
Message-Id: <memo.278867@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <n1319906976.57309@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
> As I recall Avon *wasn't* attracted to that woman in "Assassin"
> -- he found her irritating and annoying (he probably considered
> shooting her).  It was sweet, young Tarrant who was taken in.

Quite so. I'd have shot her on sight, myself. Incredibly irritating.

Gary

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End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #111
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