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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 159
Today's Topics:
[B7L] re Fourth Season
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? (fwd)
Re: [B7L] The welcome to the newcomer
[B7L] Re: Fourth Season-why?
Re: [B7L] The welcome to the newcomer
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon
Re: [B7L] Re: Fourth Season-why?
[B7L] Terra Incognita
Re: [B7L] Re: Fourth Season-why?
[B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
[B7L] Re Pages reminder
Re: [B7L] Re Pages reminder
[B7L] Passport to Pages Bar
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:10:39 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re Fourth Season
Message-ID: <357969FF.7E86@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Julia Jones wrote:
(snip debate about the credibility of Animals)
>
> It works a bit better if you try and imagine Dayna as Cally. This is >one of the episodes where it is horribly, horribly obvious that they >had started writing scripts with the assumption that Cally would still >be present, and didn't always have time to rewrite properly.
>
> And at least if it had been Cally, Justin wouldn't be so obviously
> guilty of the crime Blake was framed with...
Wasn`t at least ONE of Blakes`s supposed victims a boy? that would then
lead into.....
> >Oh, I _love_ Egrorian. Outrageously OTT, of course, but then he is a
>
> Ah, but when they were first stuck on that base, pre the Hoffel's
> readiation accident, Pindar's charms were rather more obvious - it >isn't *quite* spelt out, but it is made fairly obvious that it was not >merely Pindar's mind that interested Egrorian :)
>
Maybe one of the reasons that Egrorian and his "Golden Haired Stripling"
had to vanish SO completley was that the establishment was dead against
homosexual sex with little boys. After all Pinder was only 18 when they
vanished, who knows how long their particular relationship went back.
It could be that in the aftermath of the nuclear war (the reason why the
Domes were introduced?) it was decreed that only sex with the opposite
sex was allowed, so as to build up the population?
Just a thought.
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:58:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? (fwd)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0606165856-572Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:01:36 -0400
From: "Carol A. McCoy" <ay648@yfn.ysu.edu>
To: Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Alas, I'm so busy getting ready to "invade" England <g>, that
I don't have much time for commenting. But here are a quick
few bounced off Judith's post.
Judith wrote:
>On Fri 05 Jun, Katrina Harkess wrote:
>> I've just joined the list and I have to say I'm dismayed at some of the
>> comments on the fourth season.
<snip>
>Even the worst episodes have good bits. That scene with Servalan has sprung
>many an interesting story/dream. I also agree that Soolin gets to shine here.
Fourth Season is my absolute favorite. I wish I had time to defend
it properly. One of my favorite bits of "Assasin" is when Avon
and Tarrant are skulking about Cancer's ship. They are in perfect
harmony, not even requiring words to define their next course of
action. I also enjoy how Avon allows Tarrant to do the "dirty work"
of fighting "Cancer."
>The series doesn't gain a direction until series 4 where Avon decides to take on
>the Federation, but by then, something else is gone. The series has lost depth.
>As someone else commented, the difficult moral questions are no longer asked.
>Again there are exceptions like Orbit, but overall it's headed towards comic
>book storylines.
I thought the lack of direction in series three was perfect under
the circumstances. They've lost Blake and Jenna and gained
Dayna and Tarrant. There's a complete shuffling of dynamics. One
would expect that focus would be blurred.
And I see lots of moral ambiguities in fourth season. To name
a few (besides Orbit): Stardrive--both the use of Dayna and Vila
as "bait" and Dr. Plaxton's fate, Animals-Justin's experiments,
Warlord--when Zukan suggests that sacrificing one or two
will allow the others to survive, Headhunter--Avon dealing
with Orac's warning to leave Scorpio in quarantine even if
it resulted in Vila and Tarrant's deaths. Blake--Blake's
testing of potential allies. The series wouldn't be half
as memorable for me without the drama and tragedy of fourth
season.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:58:22 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The welcome to the newcomer
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0606165822-256Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sat 06 Jun, Carol A. McCoy wrote:
>Gan wasn't one to shirk responsibility. He was quietly mature and competent.
>He had an empathy that Alphas lacked. I would love to read AUs (or PGPs with
>Gan resurrections) where Gan assumes a leadership role.
Gan showed he had leadership potenital in Cygnus Alpha and it's a shame we never
really saw this again.
Would he have become the leader if Blake hadn't come back and rescued them?
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 15:35:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: brent@ntr.net
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Fourth Season-why?
Message-Id: <199806061935.PAA11420@rome.ntr.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rob wrote:
>But let's face it, Blake wasn't the only thing that was missing from
>Series Four. The first series, which I'm watching again now it's out on
>video, is littered with adult themes -- by that I mean moral shades of
>grey and challenging ideas. I wouldn't suggest for a moment that "The
>Web" didn't have its silly moments, but look at the dialogue between Blake
>and Avon at the end, concerning the fate of the decimas. That's the sort
>of writing that engages the audience and inspires them to ask difficult
>questions. I can't think of any examples of that from the fourth season.
Judith wrote:
>The series doesn't gain a direction until series 4 where Avon decides to
take on
>the Federation, but by then, something else is gone. The series has lost
depth.
>As someone else commented, the difficult moral questions are no longer asked.
>Again there are exceptions like Orbit, but overall it's headed towards comic
>book storylines.
I agree with Rob and Judith about "Orbit" and the state of the fourth
season. It had become action/adventure and when social topics were addressed
(such as in "Power" they were dealt with in a way that was . . . well,
rewatch "Power" and see what I mean). However, this isn't to say I didn't
find Series Four very enjoyable, because I did. Just in a different way
from the first three.
Judith also wrote:
>When Blake was gone, the series started to lose direction. Although the 3rd
>series has some great epsodes, the crew tend to fall into events rather than
>seek them out (with the notable exception of Rumours of Death). Nobody really
>knows what they want anymore.
I taped all of the episodes and let my friend watch them. He would sit and
watch four or five at a time, so the seasons were more fluid for him. I had
to tell him where the breaking points were, but once I did, he told me that
each season had a kind of underlying theme. Series One: BECOMING a workable
crew while staying ahead of the Federation (or something to that effect).
Series Two: The search for Star One (or Blake trying to use their limited
resources to really smack it to the Federation). Series Three: Meandering
in space with no clearly defined goals, thus, there was no unifying theme.
I never really got his opinion of the "theme" of Series Four, but he did say
that, although Blake wasn't his favorite character, the show did lose a lot
of its impact when he left.
Blake and his ideas were the crux of the series. To me, "Voice from the
Past" is typical of what the presence of Blake (and for that matter Gareth
Thomas) brought to the show. The ending and Blake's reaction to the
slaughter is so powerful that it makes me forget the hokier elements of that
episode. I was more crushed by Blake's failure than I was with Avon's
failure to form an alliance in "Warlord" simply because you could see how
much it hurt Blake in a way that Avon simply couldn't emote (Avon being
Avon, after all).
Brent
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:32:53 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The welcome to the newcomer
Message-ID: <19980606083253.03947@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 01:38:18PM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote:
> On Fri 05 Jun, Bill Billingsley wrote:
> > At 09:03 4/06/98 +0100, Judith wrote:
> > >Countdown and Rumours of Death are a wonderful pair of episodes.
> >
> > Apart from the 'raspberry jelly in a beaker' bomb. (The whole defusing
> > scene was unfortunately unconvincing).
>
> It used to work wonderfully for me. I was convinced by the entire thing.
>
> Then somebody pointed out that Avon didn't need to find the missing pin as he
> could have stuck the drill through the hole!
Oh, yes, I noticed it, and I wondered why Avon didn't think of it; but
then he was probably so focused on the sequence of
drill-hole-put-in-pin, that he couldn't think of the drill bit as a
substitute pin. But hey I was thinking "Hey, Avon, use the drill bit
you idiot" anyway... (-8
> Ah well, if I didn't spot it, I guess I can forgive Avon for missing it too.
He was under a great deal of stress... (-8
> I still enjoy the episode.
It's certainly not as bad a gaffe as many an other one.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 19:23:23 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon
Message-Id: <199806070024.TAA13695@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
s.thompson8@genie.com wrote:
>She said something to the effect of-- I'm quoting from memory here--
>"Having to become a pirate gets up his very considerable nose, and so he
>resolves to become the most flamboyant pirate that he can."
Which neatly explains the obvious fact that he'd started to patronize
Bayban's tailor.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:54:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fourth Season-why?
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0606205418-84fRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sat 06 Jun, brent@ntr.net wrote:
> I taped all of the episodes and let my friend watch them. He would sit and
> watch four or five at a time, so the seasons were more fluid for him. I had
> to tell him where the breaking points were, but once I did, he told me that
> each season had a kind of underlying theme. Series One: BECOMING a workable
> crew while staying ahead of the Federation (or something to that effect).
> Series Two: The search for Star One (or Blake trying to use their limited
> resources to really smack it to the Federation). Series Three: Meandering
> in space with no clearly defined goals, thus, there was no unifying theme.
> I never really got his opinion of the "theme" of Series Four, but he did say
> that, although Blake wasn't his favorite character, the show did lose a lot
> of its impact when he left.
I believe the third season was originally intended to be 'looking for Blake' but
it never really came out that way. Only four of the episodes (the first three
and Terminal) even give it lip service.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 07:53:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Terra Incognita
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0607065300-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Looks like the balance just came down in favour of Neutral Zone.
A fan phoned the hotel for Terra Incognita (desperate for information as the con
weren't answering her letters) and was told that the con had been cancelled.
While conventions do have to change venues on occasion, cons like Deliverance
were always good at keeping fans informed. I haven't heard anything from TI
recently either (I hadn't registered, but I'd sent them an SAE with a request
for any new information so I could keep the web page uptodate). Thus, either
it's dead, or they've changed venues and aren't telling anyone.
My guess is that it's dead. Last time I heard anything from them their
registrations were way below Redemption's. They started advertising very late
and they'd picked a date sandwiched between two major Babylon 5 conventions
which is bad news when your main guest (Walter Koenig) is Babylon 5.
Bear in mind that adverts may still appear for it as they'll have been pre-paid.
If you see an advert and want to take a chance on the con still being alive,
send an SAE before risking any money.
Judith
PS. Neutral Zone is one of those cons that runs regularly and reliably and I'd
confidently recommend to anyone. It's only their summer party in August which
means no major organised events, but it's a social get-together and they aim to
have fun.
PPS. I just phoned the hotel myself. They said the convention was cancelled
on Wednesday.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 11:17:20 +0100 (BST)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fourth Season-why?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980607111415.17053A-100000@mobius>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Blake and his ideas were the crux of the series. To me, "Voice from the
> Past" is typical of what the presence of Blake (and for that matter Gareth
> Thomas) brought to the show. The ending and Blake's reaction to the
> slaughter is so powerful that it makes me forget the hokier elements of that
> episode. I was more crushed by Blake's failure than I was with Avon's
> failure to form an alliance in "Warlord" simply because you could see how
> much it hurt Blake in a way that Avon simply couldn't emote (Avon being
> Avon, after all).
Another classic example of that was Blake's reaction in "Pressure
Point" when he realised he hadn't found "Control" after all. Very
hard-hitting.
-- Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 11:39:31 +0100 (BST)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980607112111.17053B-100000@mobius>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Alas, I'm so busy getting ready to "invade" England <g>, that
> I don't have much time for commenting. But here are a quick
> few bounced off Judith's post.
Thanks for posting anyway -- and good luck crossing the Pond.
> I thought the lack of direction in series three was perfect under
> the circumstances. They've lost Blake and Jenna and gained
> Dayna and Tarrant. There's a complete shuffling of dynamics. One
> would expect that focus would be blurred.
Hm. OK, let's look at that again.
> They've lost Blake and Jenna.
Ah. They've lost Blake and Jenna. There's a perfect source of
direction. Season Two was spent searching for Star One -- couldn't
a little more of Season Three have been spent looking for Blake? I
mean, look at Avon's reaction to Blake's reported death, and his
subsequent uncompromising hatred of Servalan. No one can tell me Blake
wasn't missed.
The impression I get is that the crew DID spend a great deal of time and
effort looking for Blake, but most of it was in between episodes. A
shame, from my standpoint, as they always were Blake's 7, even in Blake's
absence. (Until the fourth season, of course.)
More later,
-- Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 07:53:45 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <dc89c45b.357a7f4a@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-06-07 06:40:01 EDT, you write:
<< Ah. They've lost Blake and Jenna. There's a perfect source of
direction. Season Two was spent searching for Star One -- couldn't
a little more of Season Three have been spent looking for Blake? I >>
I believe the writers covered this in a line from Volcano. Avon is telling
the others that rumors of Blake are already flooding the Federation, and that
even at that point it would take them a lifetime to investigate them all.
Without fairly hard evidence, it wouldn't make sense to chase each rumor,
especially when Blake could always contact them if he really wanted finding.
The season may not have had "direction", but I prefer this and the
opportunities it opened up for the series, and the characters, over 10-13
episodes of "Drat, we just missed him again." D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 13:26:46 +0100 GMT
From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk
To: space-city@world.std.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re Pages reminder
Message-Id: <698107514MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
Jay said about the Pages meet: "One question, how will we
recognise you and/or the others? Will the staff know who you
are? Sorry, but I tend to worry over things like this <bg>"
Well I'll wear a Redemption T-Shirt or other B7 T-shirt, and I
suspect some of the others will do the same. Let me know what
you look like and roughly what time you'll be arriving and I'll
keep a lookout for you. That goes for anyone else who is
coming and doesn't know any of the rest of us.
cheers
Steve Rogerson
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
"The workers united will never be ignited"
Guards! Guards! - Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 12:13:29 -0400
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Pages reminder
Message-ID: <199806071613.MAA19703@yfn.ysu.edu>
Steven wrote:
>Jay said about the Pages meet: "One question, how will we
>recognise you and/or the others? Will the staff know who you
>are? Sorry, but I tend to worry over things like this <bg>"
>
>Well I'll wear a Redemption T-Shirt or other B7 T-shirt, and I
>suspect some of the others will do the same.
Jenni, Fifi, Tanya, Teri and I should be arriving together.
And some comments on other posts:
Judith, thanks for reposting my fourth season thread post that
I accidentally sent to you instead of the list.
Deborah, I enjoyed and agree with your post about third seeason
"looking for Blake." There was a reason that was impractical,
and I also would have found a series of near misses frustrating.
I like what we got much better.
Brent, I think third season and fourth season had
recognizable themes. Third Season was Establishing Dynamics
among the Revised Crew. Fourth Season was Winning is the
Only Safety.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 19:01:03 +0100 GMT
From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk
To: space-city@world.std.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Passport to Pages Bar
Message-Id: <698109339MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
I've had an email from someone on list who is interested in
coming to Pages Bar but doesn't know London and is not keen
on finding her way down on her own. Is there anyone who is
coming who is travelling from Birmingham who could meet up
with her and travel down together. Send me a private email and
I'll put you in touch.
cheers
Steve Rogerson
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
"The workers united will never be ignited"
Guards! Guards! - Terry Pratchett
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #159
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