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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 17
Today's Topics:
re:[B7L]: beards &the silly season
RE:[B7L] :Beards (was Upcoming excitment)
Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
re:[B7L]: Beards
Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Re: [B7L] Liberator
Re: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People
Re: [B7L] PD Chat
Re: [B7L] Liberator
Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Re: [B7L] South Park Liberator (pt. 2)
Re: [B7L]: beards &the silly season
RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
re:[B7L]: Liberator
Re: [B7L] Re: Tyce's presence
Re: [B7L] Slash debate
[B7L] Avon's Angels
[B7L] analogy
Re: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff, Charisma
Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Re: [B7L] :Beards (was Upcoming excitment)
Re: [B7L] editing on Volcano/DotG tape?
Re: [B7L] Avon's pet
[B7L] Re:Beards & the Silly Season
[B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed!
[B7L] Claypit People
[B7L] Blake's Charisma
[B7L] Fanfic essay
Re: [B7L] Slash debate
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #16
Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
New Technology (was:re:[B7L]: Liberator)
Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:21:00 -0800
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: re:[B7L]: beards &the silly season
Message-ID: <34C2AA7C.1E4E@termlow.co.uk>
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Julia Jones wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > And I STILL can't
> >see any homosexual overtones between B and A.
> I had to have it pointed out to me on a frame-by-frame basis, but I did
> eventually give in - there are bits that can definitely be interpreted
> that way. As interest, if not your actual physical relationship.
Can you give me a pointer as to which "bits" that can be interpreted as
having homosexual overtones, as I can`t see it either.
Thanks
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:34:40 GMT
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE:[B7L] :Beards (was Upcoming excitment)
Message-Id: <25095.9801181734@bsauasc.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
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Jackie wrote:
> NO. Men with proper beards like Gareth are fine. So-called designer
> stubble is horrible, and males that think it soooo "cool" come across as
> people who cannot be bothered to shave properly (IMO). A full beard takes
> a lot of looking after, and is soft to touch. Designer stubble makes me
> cringe.
I'm a bit scared to ask where goatees come in this hierarchy of repulsiveness.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:40:38 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Judith Proctor" <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>,
"Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <199801181751.RAA09782@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> Some script writers make the worst of fan writers look good.
Didn't I warn you about this script...? Actually I missed the show
yesterday, so maybe the cast saved it. But the script is definitely crap
And the whole Diadem thing is a rip-off of Gary Russell's Dr Who book
Legacy.
> I've got to listen again to be sure whether I actually heard Servalan
order
> 'Bring me up' in a context that implied a teleport. I hope I imagined
it.
> The Federation don't have the teleport.
Yet another argument for why it should have been PGP... ('cos by then maybe
they would)
> Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
> 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
> http://www.smof.com/redemption/
Hmm. This sounds like it might be a fun place for a honeymoon...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:59:24 -0800
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: re:[B7L]: Beards
Message-ID: <34C2B37C.2C21@termlow.co.uk>
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Iain Coleman wrote:
>
> Jackie wrote:
>
> > NO. Men with proper beards like Gareth are fine. So-called designer
> > stubble is horrible, and males that think it soooo "cool" come across as
> > people who cannot be bothered to shave properly (IMO). A full beard takes
> > a lot of looking after, and is soft to touch. Designer stubble makes me
> > cringe.
>
> I'm a bit scared to ask where goatees come in this hierarchy of repulsiveness.
>
> Iain
The goatees are long enough to be soft and not stubbly, the surrounding
area is usually clean-shaven - therefore acceptable. 8-)
Bye for now
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:45:45 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <89IPuOAJegw0Ewsz@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <01BD2407.4C8FB7A0@host5-99-57-42.btinternet.com>, Louise
Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com> writes
>A bit of spoiler space first - I remembered just in time that some people
>can't get Radio 4 (e.g. non-Brits).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Judith wailed:
>
>
>The plot was a load of tosh, though. Take one outrageously implausible and
>daft Holy Grail, add in a smattering of irritating plot device complication
>with the power crystals and the malfunctioning teleporter, which then leads
>to a completely gratuitous plot device with two Avons, and as soon as that
>happens you can see exactly where it's leading - we have to get rid of one
>of them, but we can't have Avon just shoot his twin or anything - both
>Avons have to win in the end! Bleugh. We lost Gan for a completely
>meaningless reason, we lost Cally equally stupidly(*), so why can't we have
>one of the Avons die in an equally pointless, but believeable way, e.g. one
>of them stumbles on a rock and gets ventilated by the other? It would have
>_suprised_ me, at least.
>
>
>* These are Good Things, by the way - I hate losing people for well
>thought-out reasons - it's stupid. Gritty realism is about people dying at
>the most random times.
This is one of the reasons most quoted for preferring B7 to Star Trek -
major characters die ignobly and for stupid reasons, and in the case of
Gan and Zen for story reasons rather than because the actor wanted to
leave the series. In other words, you can't solve everything and have a
nice neat ending in 50 minutes, every single time.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:38:49 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator
Message-ID: <09ANuIApXgw0EwNv@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <01BD2407.42D70240@host5-99-57-42.btinternet.com>, Louise
Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com> writes
>Stephen Shaw asked:
>>Also what happened to the model
>>of the ship at the end of the 3rd season?
>
>They attacked it with a hacksaw, then tore it apart, and filmed it.
>Normally, the model-maker makes some smaller, cheaper versions of a ship to
>do explosions with (no-one notices the lack of fine detail when it's
>exploding), and indeed they had a variety of different-sized ones for
>various shots. But they used the big one - the one with solid steel struts
>in it, built to last. That's why they needed the hacksaw. Sinful.
>
A good few of the bits were rescued from a skip and reconstructed some
years ago, more than half being original IIRC. The result has been
displayed at various times and places, although I think its last public
appearance was at Who's 7 96 (where I got some rather nice photos). I
think Paul looked a tad put out at one stage when it was attracting more
female attention than he was.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:10:49 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People
Message-ID: <a121be0.34c253bc@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-01-18 07:04:26 EST, Tom Forsyth wrote:
<< And yes, I know the sort of thing you're talking about, and it's shocking
how even in full-length novels, where there is plenty of space, people
still do this. We all know about the dreaded info-dump, but what about this
equally heinous "char-dump"?
Char-dump, I like that. It suggests a certain toxic quality that will seep
through the entire story. Or manure. A lot of character background in a big
heap makes a big mess, but spread judiciously throughout the story it makes
for a wonderfully lush story.
Metaphor overload, I think I'll lie down for a while now.
Elise
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:24:54 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] PD Chat
Message-ID: <34C25706.3922@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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G. Robbins wrote:
>
> **IMMENSE GLOATING**
> Wondering how I won the cassettes for "Blake's 7" 'The Sevenfold
> Crown'...by random drawing or the wit of my questions!!
Oh, surely by writ of wit.
Gloat away, Grace. I'm happy for you!
Best line from the Beeb transcripts: asked of Paul:
Q: At the start of the radio play, Servalan is whipping Avon. Did you
enjoy it?
A: Servalan enjoyed it.
And I thought only we fen writers got that lurid! Nice to see
professional producers stooping to our level.
Prurient Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:19:36 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator
Message-ID: <34C255C8.23D7@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jeroen J. Kwast wrote:
> I have a lot of babylon 7 models and making a movie (sort of) of them.
> I would like to do the same with my favourite show.
>
Some wonderful stories can be woven of starships from different shows. I
saw one fan made video which featured Avon, at the helm of the
Liberator, destroying the Enterprise. Kirk then went after Avon for
killing his buddy Spock. The weaving/morphing was seamless and the
resulting story snidely side-splitting. (and most gratifying for those
of us who find Kirk as annoying as Patti finds Tyce!) :)
Jeroen, I only wish we could watch your vids as a Quick Time attachment.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:45:38 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-ID: <34C25BE2.5B29@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Susan Beth wrote:
> Or more of that generalization-with-an-underlying-truth that men are better
> at math/science, women at verbal skills? And writing is definitely a
> verbal skill.
>
And yet most of the authors on the NYT best seller list are men. Just
like most of the great writers and painters of history. HIS STORY?
I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more
focused and more motivated. But in social situations (and fandom has
often been called "a sandbox in which everyone can play together" women
invest more time and energy, without expecting any measurable gain or
glory.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:49:19 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] South Park Liberator (pt. 2)
Message-ID: <YZBG3MAv6kw0Ewq2@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Pine.OSF.3.95.980118101653.4631A-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>,
NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu> writes
>
> Come on, doesn't ANYBODY on this list watch South Park?
No. What is it, I've never heard of it?
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:02:08 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]: beards &the silly season
Message-ID: <iomYLVAwGlw0Ew$z@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34C2AA7C.1E4E@termlow.co.uk>, Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
writes
>Julia Jones wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> > And I STILL can't
>> >see any homosexual overtones between B and A.
>> I had to have it pointed out to me on a frame-by-frame basis, but I did
>> eventually give in - there are bits that can definitely be interpreted
>> that way. As interest, if not your actual physical relationship.
>
>Can you give me a pointer as to which "bits" that can be interpreted as
>having homosexual overtones, as I can`t see it either.
Urgh. I'm not the one to give you chapter and verse on this. The one
that convinced me is in "Duel", during the battle. The ship's hit, the
flight deck shakes and Avon and Blake grab at each other to try and keep
their balance. Avon holds on a good deal longer than necessary.
The other one I can remember off-hand is in "The Web", when Blake's
trying to disarm the bomb, and Avon knocks him clear. They end up in a
rather fetching heap in the floor, a picture of which could be seen on
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 last time I looked. Again, Avon seems
rather reluctant to let go, although it's not as obvious as the one in
Duel.
If you really want to see the evidence, get hold of a B/A songvid. It's
quite an interesting experience :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:34:36 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0118163436-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Sun 18 Jan, Tom Forsyth wrote:
> A bit of spoiler space first - I remembered just in time that some people
> can't get Radio 4 (e.g. non-Brits).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Judith wailed:
> >Was I imagining it when the king didn't use the powers of the crown to
> >prevent it from being stolen from him, when Servalan didn't use the power
> of
> >her stone to neutralise a gun and when Avon didn't use the power of the
> >crown to get his own way when his crew threatened to use weapons against
> >him?
>
> No, you weren't. And of course there is the usual problem with telekinesis
> - if you can do anything useful at all, like stop the hammer of a gun going
> down (or whatever Scorpio guns have), then you can block the carotid
> arteries and easily knock someone out or kill them. You might need to block
> the ones round the spine as well, but only for a kill.
>
> On the other hand, it might have been that only the stone gave people TK,
> which would almost excuse two of the three examples (though the king could
> have asked his guards politely to beat them up). Not that Avon has ever
> needed a TP crown to control his crew, of course.
But Servalan calls the king a fool when he doesn't use the power of the
diadem, so one must assume that it does have that power. She had the
information about it.
>
> >And as for Servalan forgetting to remove Tarrant's teleport bracelet -
> words
> >fail me.
>
> Am I right in thinking that nowhere in the series did anyone ever forget to
> do this (except when they wouldn't know what a bracelet was)? I don't
> recall them ever saying "Phew - lucky Servalan forgot to take our bracelets
> off." So if the series didn't even stoop that low...
I don't recall a single example of them being missed, but I can
certainly recall cases where the bracelets were taken.
>
> >I've got to listen again to be sure whether I actually heard Servalan
> order
> >'Bring me up' in a context that implied a teleport. I hope I imagined it.
> >The Federation don't have the teleport.
>
> You didn't imagine it - I heard it too and thought "ooh - is this a cunning
> plot where our heroes have to destroy the Federation's new transporter
> technology? Has Servalan managed to capture Scorpio?" Er... no.
I've decided that I can juuuust about live with his one as it's in the
opening dream sequence. Servalan can dream that she's destroyed Scorpio and
gained a teleport, although some reaction from Avon along the grounds of 'oh
no, she's got the teleport too,' would seem to be called for.
I've just been listening again to the bit where Soolin panics. Is this the
same woman who was so efficient and collected in 'Headhunter'? Is this the
woman who killed those who murdered her family? Is this the woman who would
probably kill anyone who double-crossed her?
No. It isn't.
Soolin is undoubtedly the worst served by the script and I
suspct the actress's lack of familiarity with the character didn't even
allow her to make the best of what she was given.
> Another really annoying quibble, made doubly annoying by how easy it would
> have been to fix, was that all the wrong sound effects were used. The
> teleport noise was from the Liberator (AFAIR), as were the gun firing
> noises. Scorpio guns just went "bang", possibly with a sort of slight
> after-whine. These sounds were passable imitations of the "pyeeewwww" sound
> from the Liberator. Er... and the incidental music. The first two bars of
> the theme tune are repeated for bars five and six, but bars three and four
> are not! (it's AABBAACC, not AABBAABB as played) And I gave up any pretense
> at playing a musical instrument ten years ago, so it's not as if it's a
> subtle goof or anything.
I hadn't spotted that. I thought it was the Scorpio teleport noise to be
honest (though I'm very bad on that sort of thing) - I'll have to do some
more listening.
>
> Oh well, maybe they'll do better next time. I _was_ pleased by the amount
> of coverage it got, though - nice to know the media still think it's worth
> a mention, even if it is twenty years old and this is just a one-off radio
> play.
The web page is getting triple the normal traffic, so there's obviously been
a fair bit of interest sparked off among fans.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:03:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980118210042.31819A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
OK, the bottom line.
I don't know whether to buy this or not, so I want to get it into
perspective by comparing it to the worst B7 stuff I've spent money on for
the sake of completeness.
Is "Sevenfold Crown" better or worse than "Stardrive/Animals"?
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:10:29 -0800
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: re:[B7L]: Liberator
Message-ID: <34C2E045.54D0@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pat Patera wrote:
>
> Jeroen J. Kwast wrote:
>
> > I have a lot of babylon 7 models and making a movie (sort of) of them.
> > I would like to do the same with my favourite show.
> >
> Some wonderful stories can be woven of starships from different shows. I
> saw one fan made video which featured Avon, at the helm of the
> Liberator, destroying the Enterprise. Kirk then went after Avon for
> killing his buddy Spock. The weaving/morphing was seamless and the
> resulting story snidely side-splitting. (and most gratifying for those
> of us who find Kirk as annoying as Patti finds Tyce!) :)
I`ve seen that one. Or at least one very similar. The one I remember
seeing had Avon selling out to Kirk & Co and allowing the Liberator to be
destroyed. Avon walked away from the screen smirking. Brilliant fight
sequences between the Liberator and the Enterprise.
Bye for now
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:49:58 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tyce's presence
Message-ID: <34C25CE6.77F8@geocities.com>
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Russ Massey wrote:
> >
> That's a foul slur on the masculinity of Federation troopers everywhere! Tyce
> was the only woman on a planet with at least a section of 9 troopers
And just *who* do you think she wore those 6" spiked-heel killer boots
*for* anyway? She couldn't know a real man like Blake would come along
to appreciate them. (alas, Blake didn't even notice them, nor did he
notice her quivvering gold fringe or well-fitted bodice - the bone head)
But I'll bet the troopers did - and this was a small revenge she enjoyed
- tormenting them on a daily basis.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:39:33 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-ID: <34C25A75.14BD@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Tom Forsyth wrote:
> Would people like Steven Donaldson fit the bill. OK, his
> most charactersome books are actually fantasy (the Mordant series and the
> Thomas Coventant bitrilogy),
Years ago, when the first Covenant "White Gold" book came out, it was
much talked about. That was the only book of his I ever read, for I
found it depressing and disgusting. Talk about an anti-hero! After
spending some hours with his protagonist, (Thomas?) who was uniformly
depressed and unhappy, and brutally raped some young woman who just
happened to cross his path, I never wanted to hear from either Thomas or
Steven again.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:32:03 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-ID: <34C258B3.63EC@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Avon's Angels?
Yes, that line was trite. But as you'll recall, in the transcripts, PD
mentioned the B7 script he wrote, (the one with the *terrible* title:
Man of Iron - (even Sly Stallone wouldn't touch that one!) to which the
producers responded: "Actors should stick to acting."
Afraid PD just doesn't have the gift of gab when it comes to tossing off
clever script. But oh my, can he mouth a well written line! :)
How about, "Avon's Avengers"? aaauggghhh!
I disagree that Blakes 7 was not a good title, even if Blake did
disappear. It further made the point that even absent, his vision kept
his "followers" on target. Indeed, they belonged to Blake, even after
his departure. Altho Avon *wanted* to follow a different path, he seemed
gripped still by an unseen hand on his rudder.
Ryhme of the Avenging (space) Mariner
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:25:57 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] analogy
Message-ID: <34C26555.79DF@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hi Bob: this bit is forwarded from the B7 list, in a thread about
fan-fic and why the bit characters (not the show characters are so
shallowly presented. The reason, of course, is that fans want to spend
more time with their favorite characters, not with 'new" bit players.
But the analogy on how to present character traits is fun: -- Pat
<< And yes, I know the sort of thing you're talking about, and it's
shocking
how even in full-length novels, where there is plenty of space, people
still do this. We all know about the dreaded info-dump, but what about
this
equally heinous "char-dump"?
Char-dump, I like that. It suggests a certain toxic quality that will
seep
through the entire story. Or manure. A lot of character background in a
big
heap makes a big mess, but spread judiciously throughout the story it
makes
for a wonderfully lush story.
Metaphor overload, I think I'll lie down for a while now.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:16:26 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff, Charisma
Message-ID: <34C2631A.5328@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
PATTI McCLELLAN wrote:
>
><snip> I still say Tyce was shrill, her voice irritating. <snip>
> It doesn't surprise me to find myself standing in a minority
> position here, that happens to me all the time. I doesn't
> mean my position is invalid.
I know it's hard when one states an opinion and others post a
contradictory opinion. It doesn't mean the minority opinion is invalid.
It just mens you have an independent mind :) I, for one, like to read
opposing opinions. How else could we have discussions?
I like most aggressive, irritating women: Xena, Tyce, Soolin. You go,
grrrls!
I liked Anna's snide remarks to her hubby.
I think Avalon acted way too sweet. I liked her initial look of steely
determination, when she first pulled down her muffler to reveal herself
as the sought after rebel. But after that, she looked and acted like
Tinkerbelle, not Che Guevera.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:03:54 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <vI8bjbAaIlw0Ew8W@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199801181751.RAA09782@gnasher.sol.co.uk>, Dangermouse
<master@sol.co.uk> writes
>
>
>> Some script writers make the worst of fan writers look good.
>
>Didn't I warn you about this script...? Actually I missed the show
>yesterday, so maybe the cast saved it. But the script is definitely crap
>
>And the whole Diadem thing is a rip-off of Gary Russell's Dr Who book
>Legacy.
Well, we've been saying it sounded like a Dr Who script - the
explanation is that it was!
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:53:38 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] :Beards (was Upcoming excitment)
Message-ID: <bJ2GDRAy+kw0Ewqd@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34C2AA66.3F19@termlow.co.uk>, Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
writes
>Iain Coleman wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Julia Jones wrote:
>>
>> > I thought the (real) five-day beard was rather cute. Which is saying
>> > something, I'm not a fan of beards. Paul's one of the few men I consider
>> > to be sexy, rather than merely not actually repellent, when wearing a
>> > beard.
>>
>> Come on, now, Julia posted this a couple of days ago. Aren't any of the
>> women out there going to say how much they like bearded guys?
>> No?
>
>NO. Men with proper beards like Gareth are fine. So-called designer
>stubble is horrible, and males that think it soooo "cool" come across as
>people who cannot be bothered to shave properly (IMO).
Yup. I like the five day stubble in "Rescue" for reasons involving
"because he looks so pretty when he hurts", not because I think designer
stubble looks good.
>A full beard takes
>a lot of looking after, and is soft to touch.
You'd like Gareth's current beard, then. Now that *does* look good. Not
that I got a chance to see if it feels good, you'll have to ask Judith
if she managed it.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:48:31 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] editing on Volcano/DotG tape?
Message-ID: <aZlG3JA$5kw0EwLz@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199801181418.PAA24776@samantha.lysator.liu.se>, Gareth
Randall <gwr@easynet.co.uk> writes
>>Some of the cuts are very brief. Spacefall (which I think is the only
>>one the BBC officially admits to cutting) had only a few seconds cut -
>>the scene where Avon is fighting with the computer technician, and boxes
>>his ears.
>
>The bizarre thing about this is that the BBC's original "The Beginning" tape
>includes this scene, and is rated PG - as is the later Way Back/Spacefall
>tape, and indeed almost all of the other episodic tapes. Yet Volcano/DotG
>and the other one (can't remember the two eps right now) are both rated U
>(the UK equivalent of G). Very odd.
>
The tale I'd heard was that at the time the complete episodes were being
released, there was a fad amongst the youth of this country to go round
clapping each other over the ears, resulting in lots of perforated
eardrums. The Beeb did not wish to be seen as encouraging this sort of
activity, and several videos released at the time had such scenes
removed. Including Avon's early demonstration that he's a ruthless
bastard who fights dirty.
Maybe the people who are re-releasing the videos should be encouraged to
use the original broadcast version, including the above, and the scene
in Rescue where Vila seriously considers crawling into a bottle instead
of being a hero. Oh, and the scene at the end of Rescue which shows
where Soolin got to, and her attitude at the time to the others.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:20:22 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's pet
Message-ID: <19980118.151541.10455.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
Come now...I always thought Orac was Avon's pet.
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:20:22 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:Beards & the Silly Season
Message-ID: <19980118.151541.10455.1.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
Jackie wrote:
"And Back hair makes me shudder!! yuuuuukkkkk"
Its a might better than those open pit crater zits.
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:23:01 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980118174612.32049A-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Re: consternation at not being able to see "homosexual"
undertones, overtones, monotones, whatever...This reminds me of a story
about an academic studying fandom, writing her very first slash story and
then reading it to a gay male friend to find out if it was hot. I cannot
imagine a more obvious example of someone just not getting it than that.
What's slashy about B/A (IMO, FWIW, YMMV, ETC.), is the intensity of the
bond and the angst potential. (I don't mean to sound snippy, I'm just
typing really fast because I have to get off-line in a minute). For
those looking with a slashy sensibility, some scenes carry more
symbolic baggage than others because the physical action seems to
express the emotional subtext we favor. I'm not saying I speak for
all B/A fen of the world; this is my view of what happens.
As a brief (not doing them justice it's so brief) aid for those
trying to spot the key scenes, I'm including a list at the end. The
suggestion (I missed who made it) to find some vids is a good one, but in
lieu of that, try watching some scenes with the sound off. Why? Because
while one of the great and abiding joys of B7 is the wonderful, sparky,
love/hate verbal sparring between Blake and Avon, to get the slashiness of
the bond (or, IMO, to really see the bond well regardless of how you want
to interpret it), you have to realize that what Avon says and what Avon
does are often at odds (not that there's anything wrong with that), and
when that happens the best thing to do is ignore what he says and pay
close attention to what he does.
Get out your tapes:
The Web: Avon saving Blake from the bomb, Blake giving in when Avon
gets hit with the cattle prod, the nice camaraderie under the elms.
Duel: The totally gratuitous 5 minute hug Avon puts on Blake.
Redemption: After the sparring, Avon covers Blake's head when they fall to
the deck.
Pressure Point: Avon holding Blake as Blake falls to his knees in
shock and despair.
Countdown: Blake threatens Grant if anything happens to Avon
Hostage: Blake holding Avon when Avon is wounded
Voice from the Past: Avon holding Blake as Blake screams, Avon very
concerned about Blake in general.
Star One: After all the yelling, Avon goes anyway (them in a
nutshell 8-) solicitous when Blake's wounded, agrees to carry on the
battle when Blake can't. The "I've always trusted you" scene.
Aftermath: Avon's main concern is Blake (he asks Orac about him more than
the others).
Terminal: The look on Avon's face when Servalan says Blake is dead,
everything he does to get there.
Blake: Avon once again risks everything he has to get to Blake. No
one else's (apparent) betrayal would cut as deep.
Try imagining Terminal and Blake with someone else in Blake's
place. No way--only for Blake would Avon do what he does, both the
good and the stupid.
And finally, I'm well aware that all of these scenes carry
multiple interpretive possibilities and that there are many other
wonderful scenes for B/A or B-A. But the Royal Rumble free for all
is about to start. 8-)
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
"When correctly viewed, everything is lewd" Tom Lehrer
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:30:54 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Claypit People
Message-ID: <34C2829E.5B35@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
More remarks on the Neil Faulkner article posted: Attack of the Claypit
People. It's fine to yearn for a perfect world, but if one goes too far
afield from canon, fen get bopped for "not following canon."
> #15
>... but what about the neutral planet? Whereabouts on it are they? ...
>2) If there are enough people living on it to sustain some kind of
>economy, everything on the planet is devoted to one particular industry.
ok, this is a pet peeve of mine - in the Trek universe as well: each
planet has a single government, skin color, fashion sense. Ok, the
galaxy is a big place, but so is a planet, with room for diversity, as
on Earth. Perhaps everyone considers sci-fi to mean the present trend of
Western Culture flooding the Earth, resulting in the elimination of all
other cultures and species. (IT'S MINE! ALL MINE!)
> 7) Gravity, climate, topography and vegetation are all unremarkable.
> Nothing merits attention until everyone gawps at the double sunset.
Most planets with survivable "Earthlike conditions" would be - well,
Earthlike. Actually, our vegetation and beaches are quite spendidly
remarkable - it's just their familiarity that makes them seem mundane.
> 8) All building interiors are featureless and characterless, with the
notable exception of Servalan's Office.
I should say especially Servalan's Office. She lacked even industrial
tubing.
Finally, some fen do write stories with original characters. They sell
these to mainstream book publishers and try to make some money from
their labors.
I'll say about fanfic in general what's often said of slash: if you
don't like it, (Neil), don't read it.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: 18 Jan 1998 15:55:14 -0800
From: "Buck, Courtney" <buck#m#_courtney@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
Message-ID: <n1326983386.32812@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>Judith wrote:
>The way that we judge charisma is inevitably affected by the reactions
>of others and if the rest of the crew are seen as largely unaffected,
>then the impact on us will be correspondingly reduced.
If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic effect of Avon?
The rest of the crew are generally unaffected by, and disagreeing with, Avon;
yet *his* charisma shines through as brilliant as a dozen exploding Novas.
>When you have Blake's voice and words without the detraction of Avon's
>sneers, Vila's dubious looks, etc., the effect is much stronger.
BUT, Avon's voice and words, even WITH (and in spite of) the detraction of
Blake's "manipulations" and Vila's dubious looks, have a strong effect...and
your attention is turned to Avon. That's charisma...
Courtney
For the record, I like Blake. Season 2 is my favorite. The show really did
lose a lot when it, unfortunately, lost the Avon/Blake, Avon-Blake interaction.
*I* just don't see Blake as charismatic as the show implies he MUST have been.
This applies only to Blake, however, not to Gareth Thomas...who I adore.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:29:52 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Fanfic essay
Message-ID: <34C29070.37F9@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
from the Neil Faulkner essay on fanfic posted by Russ:
Neil notes:
>Where adult fiction differs from hurt/comfort, or so I am informed, is in that the resolution is not >necessarily a happy one - stories with a heavy sexual content apparently have a habit of ending rather >bleakly.
Perhaps this is because women often expect more from sex than do men.
Therefore, sexual encounters that a man might consider "a fun fling"
carry hopes of a "future relationship" to the woman. Hence, women have
more experiences of sex gone sour - i.e. the jerk never calls again once
he's scored. To his mind, sex with a new partner carried no more meaning
than ordering a new dish at a restaurant - the act carries no
responsibility to ever order it again. But to her mind, sex spoiled "the
romance" by ending it - and also ending the relationship / friendship.
So femme writers transpose this result into story.
>And why *does* fanfic so often take the form of pseudo-historic romance focusing on the interaction of >characters in a social and temporal limbo? Who does this appeal to, and what makes it so appealing?
Neil invited response on this one. Any takers?
I postulate that it's the reverse of the typical male action story.
Everyone dashes about blowing things up (people and places, both) but
never say how they feel about killing things, losing a buddy, etc.
Feelings are not considered relevant to the story. It just takes up
valuable seconds that could be filled with an explosion.
The fanfic Neil describes is the exact opposite. While it's important to
know how people feel about things, it's not considered relevant to
describe what's killed, blasted, walked across or sat upon. It just
takes up space that could be filled with an emotion.
Also, could this be the femme equivalent of male athletics - men are
able to have a more developed musculature - and exercise it via "sporty"
exhibitions. Women are able to have a more developed emotion-ature - and
exercise it via "smoozy" relationship stories?
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:04:59 +1000
From: Gina Sartore <ginaa@psychvax.psych.su.OZ.AU>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-Id: <v03007800b0e85612d3ac@[129.78.82.186]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tom Forsyth wrote:
>
>> Would people like Steven Donaldson fit the bill. OK, his
>> most charactersome books are actually fantasy (the Mordant series and the
>> Thomas Coventant bitrilogy),
>
>Years ago, when the first Covenant "White Gold" book came out, it was
>much talked about. That was the only book of his I ever read, for I
>found it depressing and disgusting. Talk about an anti-hero! After
>spending some hours with his protagonist, (Thomas?) who was uniformly
>depressed and unhappy, and brutally raped some young woman who just
>happened to cross his path, I never wanted to hear from either Thomas or
>Steven again.
>
>Pat P
Once again Pat takes the words from my mouth. I think I got about as far as
you did -- i must say, though, his character names gave me a good giggle.
Do I recall a Lord Kenneth, or does my fevered imagination play me false?
And comparing him with Tolkien was just the last straw, though I guess to
be fair the publisher was probably more to blame for that one.
yuck.
gina
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:42:32 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #16
Message-ID: <19980118.163707.2815.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
Julia Jones wrote:
>Perhaps we can test this theory at Deliverence by presenting Paul with a
>shirt.
OK...what kind of slogan can we come up with for a t-shirt for our
greying friends?
I gave my dad a "60 and sexy" shirt some years back, but these fellas
aren't there yet, are they?
"Grey to stay?" <G>
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:12:00 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980118190709.00cda6bc@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Courtney wrote:
>If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic
>effect of Avon?
Here again, I'll have to disagree -- I never saw Avon as having charisma.
Sex appeal, perhaps, at least to some (he's not my type, so I can't really
say), but not charisma. I like him, but I certainly wouldn't be inclined to
follow him based purely on his personality. I don't see him as having the
sort of almost hypnotic appeal that can sway the masses.
--
- Lisa
<lcw@dallas.net>
<lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:55:50 -0800
From: Luxueil <jlv@halcyon.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: New Technology (was:re:[B7L]: Liberator)
Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980118185550.008bbd60@mail.halcyon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Pat wrote:
>> Some wonderful stories can be woven of starships from different shows. I
>> saw one fan made video which featured Avon, at the helm of the
>> Liberator, destroying the Enterprise. Kirk then went after Avon for
>> killing his buddy Spock. The weaving/morphing was seamless and the
>> resulting story snidely side-splitting.
>and Jackie replied:
>I`ve seen that one. Or at least one very similar. The one I remember
>seeing had Avon selling out to Kirk & Co and allowing the Liberator to be
>destroyed. Avon walked away from the screen smirking. Brilliant fight
>sequences between the Liberator and the Enterprise.
Must be two different vids. The one Pat refers to is the first one that I
know of that was created completely digitally, back in 1994, to a shortened
version of Something in the Air Tonight. The machine it was created on was
a 486, but I no longer remember how many mg it occupied, nor what software
was used to assemble it. The quality was very grainy, about 15 frames a
second instead of the normal 30.
But I remember that when I saw the Liberator in the Enterprise's view
screen, I nearly stopped breathing! That vid blew me away.
(This last week I saw a draft of a digital vid to Sleep to Dream, for La
Femme Nikita - just a couple of seam problems remained to be fixed. It
plays at the right speed, and looks like an analog video tape, with cool
fades and dissolves and slo-mo added in. It was assembled on a Pentium II,
using Premiere, and took up 4gig.)
Nicole
------------------------------------------------------------
Three candles shine from a noble heart:
Justice with mercy, truth with compassion, excellence with humility.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:00:45 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <34C2DDFD.D24FB4CF@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I haven't heard the radio play or read the script, but 'Bring me up'
seems to me to be suspiciously close to a Star Trek -ism: Isn't ST
content with having corrupted Dr. Who?
Dangermouse wrote:
>
> > Some script writers make the worst of fan writers look good.
>
> Didn't I warn you about this script...? Actually I missed the show
> yesterday, so maybe the cast saved it. But the script is definitely crap
>
> And the whole Diadem thing is a rip-off of Gary Russell's Dr Who book
> Legacy.
>
> > I've got to listen again to be sure whether I actually heard Servalan
> order
> > 'Bring me up' in a context that implied a teleport. I hope I imagined
> it.
> > The Federation don't have the teleport.
>
> Yet another argument for why it should have been PGP... ('cos by then maybe
> they would)
>
> > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
> > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
> > http://www.smof.com/redemption/
>
> Hmm. This sounds like it might be a fun place for a honeymoon...
--
C progamme run. C programme crash. C programmer quit.
Return to COBOL.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #17
*************************************