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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 254
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
RE: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
Re: [B7L] Vere Lorrimer Pictures
Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
[B7L] Re: Rumours of Death
Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Re: [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
Re: [B7L] [Off-topic] Rosemary
Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Re: [B7L] Zeeona
Re: [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
[B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
Re: [B7L] Zeeona
[B7L] re: Project Avalon
[B7L] re: Double Standards
Re: [B7L] Zeeona
RE: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Re: [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
Re: [B7L] Zeeona
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] Re: Double standards
[B7L] Double standards
[B7L] Re: Vere Lorrimer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:18:42 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1005211842-9eeRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 05 Oct, SuzanThoms@aol.com wrote:
> <<Tigerm writes:
> <<like leaving the Liberator completely unattended in "Gambit" (if Blake
> <<and the others had needed emergency teleport they'd have been in deep
> <<trouble). At some points, they actively endanger their shipmates, either
> >>through intent or negligence. >>
>
> When were Blake and party in danger thru negligence? ORAC was ready to
> teleport them at a moments notice if they called for transport. There was
> NEVER a time they would have been stranded.
Actually it was stated in another episode that Orac was slower on the teleport
than a human operator was. So there could have been a danger. If you have a
gun pointed at you and you call for teleport, a second can be the difference
between life and death.
> I found the end of this episode rediculous. I can't imagine Avon feeling
> compelled to hide his actions from Blake.
I can, precisely because of Orac having slower reactions. Although I suspect
his main reason was not wanting Blake to know how much money they had made, and
also a desire to prevent Vila from getting into trouble.
>
> <<Judith writes:
> <<There's something dangerously seductive about Avon's demeanour
> <<that invites us to ignore his faults
>
> Definitely! But I think rather than ignore them, we adore him in spite of
> them. I can forgive Avon his bad faults because I accept him as he is, as a
> product of the B7 universe. And it's the climate of the B7 universe that
> attracts me to the show in the first place. While I don't see Avon with a
> hidden heart of gold, I do acknowledge his loyalty to his crew (both of them)
> and his good points (which I will list if necessary).
>
> >>while crucifying others for the same failings.
>
> I haven't noticed this. I've only been on the list for about six weeks so I
> guess I just haven't seen these postings. I didn't realize the others were
> being so crucified. So far, all I've seen is a lot of Avon bashing.
Actually, it's far less prevalent than it used to be. (But you will still
sometimes see Blake being accused of being manipulative or of not telling his
crew everything while ignoring the fact that Avon was often guilty of the same)
Can't say that I've seen any Avon-bashing at all. But then I interpret things
in the way that I would have meant them if I'd written them myself. To me, an
exploration of the darker sides of Avon's motivation is simply a way of
discovering deeper depths in a character that I love.
>
> Because *I* find Avon so particularly attractive and appealing I find it easy
> to forgive him almost anything. However, I forgive the others their failings
> as well.
I think that's why character-bashing overall seems less prevalent these days.
The longer we hang around here, the more likly we are to discover interesting
facets in all the characters. I've even been finding positive aspects to Travis
recently.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:30:16 +-100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
Message-Id: <01BDF103.8F24EE40@cmg71700449>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Jackie wrote:
>Or how the Android lost her coverall in the first place?, and why did
>nobody discover the glass bauble when they removed the garment?. >Why was
>the prison coverall kept in the first place and not disposed of - were
>the crew planning to give it back to Avalon as a momento of her stay?
What surprised me is that Gan found the tunic near the teleporter. Did they undress her and give her other clothes right after they came on board?
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:11:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vere Lorrimer Pictures
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.981006111056.7567E-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Jim, thanks for these.
Una
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pre-menstrual historian: 'It's NOT my period!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:18:46 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.981006111359.7567G-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Steve said:
>He likes the way Shadow turned out but not Weapon and was obviously not
>keen on director George Spenton Foster. He also said: "Foster hated one
>cast member and left him swinging in the wind." Does anyone know any
>more about this?
From what I understand, it was Brian Croucher. GSF and Croucher had very
different styles and approaches and simply didn't hit it off - GSF
apparently wouldn't direct Croucher, at a very basic level, and he was
often left just standing there. Obviously, this was quite difficult for a
new cast member, particularly one taking over a character played
previously by someone else.
Where have I read this? Is it in the Sheelagh Wells book? I'm sure I've
read this and it isn't just a figment of my imagination!
Una
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pre-menstrual historian: 'It's NOT my period!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:53:24 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.981006104647.32292A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Steve Rogerson wrote:
> He likes the way Shadow turned out but not Weapon and was obviously not
> keen
Very diplomatically understated, Steve.
> on director George Spenton Foster. He also said: "Foster hated one
> cast member and left him swinging in the wind." Does anyone know any
> more about this?
I gather Foster and Brian Croucher really, really did not get on. It's
quite noticeable that Croucher's acting is much worse in Foster-directed
episodes. It's really a shame, as I like Croucher when he's on form.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:13:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.981006110651.32292B-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Una McCormack wrote:
>
> From what I understand, it was Brian Croucher. GSF and Croucher had very
> different styles and approaches and simply didn't hit it off - GSF
> apparently wouldn't direct Croucher, at a very basic level, and he was
> often left just standing there. Obviously, this was quite difficult for a
> new cast member, particularly one taking over a character played
> previously by someone else.
>
> Where have I read this? Is it in the Sheelagh Wells book? I'm sure I've
> read this and it isn't just a figment of my imagination!
>
I too distinctly recall reading this in Sheelagh's book. This leads quite
naturally to two possible explanations:
1) This tale really is reported in the book
2) As a side-effect of bizarre ultra-secret experiments in Cambridge to
create the ultimate fighting machine in the Department of Applied
Mathematics and Theoretical Physics, thus allowing Stephen Hawking to take
over the world and subject it to his will, citizens of Cambridge have been
exposed to a mind-altering ray which induces mass hallucinations related
to British SF trivia.
Of the two, I think the second is far more likely.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:32:14 +1000
From: "Katrina Harkess" <kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
Message-Id: <199810061047.UAA20434@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Judith wrote:
>
> I think that's why character-bashing overall seems less prevalent these
days.
> The longer we hang around here, the more likly we are to discover
interesting
> facets in all the characters. I've even been finding positive aspects to
Travis
> recently.
Travis has a whole /pile/ of positive aspects. More than *Avon* by my
calculation [Someone want to dispute this?] But ayway. Wehn I first joined,
I didn't see much in Dayna. Now, I see a lot more. I saw some in Tarrant -
but he sure wasn't the darling to me he is now!!! Discussion is good. :)
Katrina.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:01:20 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
Message-ID: <6b166ca5.3619f880@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-10-06 02:19:12 EDT, you write:
<< Actually it was stated in another episode that Orac was slower on the
teleport
than a human operator was. So there could have been a danger. I >>
True, Orac is slower on a teleport than a human is, but I expect that that
is a human who is fully alert and ready. A condition that is difficult to
maintain for very long. Look to "Rumours"; after 5 days it would have been
impossible for the crew to have been ready to teleport instantly. Even
Tarrant indicated they were on a "short-delay" status(a 2 minute status of
some sort).
Not that your arguement doesn't apply here. Avon went juvenile deliquent,
and for no good reason apparantly(though eventually I'll write my own story as
to why he really did it). D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:20:28 +0100 (BST)
From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray)
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Rumours of Death
Message-Id: <199810061120.MAA14366@dux1.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Harriet Monkhouse wrote that 'Anna's chances of pulling off the coup
[in Romours] weren't all that good - it depended largely on whoever was
commanding the relief forces being sufficiently devoted to Servalan to put
saving her life above crushing the rebels).' My own view is that Anna's
chances of success were almost nil. She assumed that Servalan could give the
order to stand down the Federation's armed forces, and would resign in
favour of a 'People's Council' led by Anna and other rebels.
But for Servalan to have done such things would finish her, in both
a personal and political sense. Any commands she gave to the loyal troops
would be disregarded, because she was in captivity and the commands were
made under duress, not of her own free will. Even if she was rescued alive,
those commands would have discredited her politically, not to mention the
distinct possibility of execution for cowardice. It is my belief that, even
though the B7 crew managed to free her before she was rescued, the fact that
she had been captured in what should have been the centre of her power
discredited her sufficiently to allow for her deposition by the end of the
third season.
Murray Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:35:22 +1000
From: "Afenech" <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-Id: <12252426395176@domain2.bigpond.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Steve said:
>
> >He likes the way Shadow turned out but not Weapon and was obviously not
> >keen on director George Spenton Foster. He also said: "Foster hated one
> >cast member and left him swinging in the wind." Does anyone know any
> >more about this?
>
> From what I understand, it was Brian Croucher. GSF and Croucher had very
> different styles and approaches and simply didn't hit it off - GSF
> apparently wouldn't direct Croucher, at a very basic level, and he was
> often left just standing there. Obviously, this was quite difficult for
a
> new cast member, particularly one taking over a character played
> previously by someone else.
>
> Where have I read this? Is it in the Sheelagh Wells book? I'm sure I've
> read this and it isn't just a figment of my imagination!
>
> Una
__________
I dont know about Sheelagh's book but I have heard Paul Darrow's story of
occasions when Jacqueline Pearce and Brian Croucher were supposed to do
scenes together and GSF's directorial decision was to focus entirely on
Ms. Pearce with BC in minature on a video screen.
Pat F
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:08:23 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
Message-ID: <19981006150824.6404.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Joanne enquired:
>PS "rosemary-tinted" - I'm not sure what you're referring to, Rob.
>Could you explain?
Rosemary is a poisonous plant -- I don't know exactly what it does to
you, but if you eat enough of it, it kills you.
For those of us who aren't partial to his 64-tooth grin, Tarrant is not
the most likeable character at first. In fact, most of us can't stand
him. But when we try to explain why we can't stand him, the Tarrant
Nostra chime in and point out that Avon has the same faults. That seems
to work with most people...
-- Rob
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: 06 Oct 1998 18:06:41 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] [Off-topic] Rosemary
Message-ID: <us7lydhdym.fsf@sally.lysator.liu.se>
"Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com> writes:
> Rosemary is a poisonous plant -- I don't know exactly what it does to
> you, but if you eat enough of it, it kills you.
Rosemary poisonous? Do you have a reference for that? It's a fairly
common spice over here, and none of my books mention anything about it
being harmful. Or maybe we're not talking about the same plant? The
one I'm thinking of is Rosmarinus Officinalis in Latin.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
Please pay no attention to the panda in the fridge.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:16:27 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1006081627-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 05 Oct, Steve Rogerson wrote:
> The current issue of SFX in the UK (No 44 Novemver) has a review of the
> Fabulous Films video release containing Shadow and Weapon. Nothing
> surprising there apart from the fact that both those episodes were
> written by Chris Boucher and the reviewer is.. er, Chris Boucher.
>
> He likes the way Shadow turned out but not Weapon and was obviously not
> keen on director George Spenton Foster. He also said: "Foster hated one
> cast member and left him swinging in the wind." Does anyone know any
> more about this?
Might have been Brian Croucher (Travis II). I seem to recall stories that he
got on very badly with one of the directors and I know it wasn't Vere Lorrimer.
>
> There is a different reviewer for the tape containing Horizon and
> Pressure Point and his line is that if you think Avon epitomises
> sex-in-leather then you'll like Horizon otherwise you won't.
I like 'Horizon' <grin>. Although I like it for far more than just Avon. It's
a good episode all round. I like the intereaction between Ro and the Commisar
as Ro is forced into maturity.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:55:54 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zeeona
Message-ID: <ByGXkGA65UG2Ewzo@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199810052059.PAA07182@pemberton.magnolia.net>, Lorna B.
<msdelta@magnolia.net> writes
>Rob said:
>
>>It just about adds up if you accept that she had little or no confidence
>>in Zukan, and by extension, Avon's alliance. I notice she referred to
>>it as "your [Avon's] rebel alliance" later on -- deliberately
>>dissociating herself from any part in it. That isn't a very attractive
>>trait -- just waiting in the background and criticising without actively
>>involving herself in the crew's plans -- but then she was a calculating
>>soul...
>
>That last sentence is an apt description of another regular character in the
>show. Any guesses on who it could be? <eg>
First couple of times I watched Series 1 and 2, I wondered why Blake
didn't shove a certain irritating little bastard out the airlock...
And I'm not talking about Vila :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:20:41 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
Message-Id: <199810061718.MAA00251@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rob Clother wrote:
>Rosemary is a poisonous plant -- I don't know exactly what it does to
>you, but if you eat enough of it, it kills you.
Rosemary is a *spice*, Rob, commonly used in cooking. Of course, if you eat
enough of *anything* it will kill you, but rosemary is not considered
poisonous. (Varro Tyler reports that large quantities of the essential oil
can produce irritation of the stomach, intestines and kidneys, so it
probably isn't a good idea to swig pure oil of rosemary by the pint. That
isn't an issue when using rosemary leaves in cooking, though, as the amount
of essential oil you ingest that way is miniscule.)
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:30:58 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1006103058-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Tue 06 Oct, Joanne MacQueen wrote:
>Pat Fenech lent me "A Ledge Between the Streams" by Judith Seaman, and (my
>apologies to those yet to read it) I found it impossible for me to like it
>because an inner voice was screaming, "She killed off Vila, you can't do
>that!!!". Not a rational reason for disliking anything, I know, but one Vila
>would be happy with <smile>
I liked that one - but then I'm the kind who likes Shakespearean plays with
bodies all over the stage in the last act.
I think my love of killing characters off occasionally gets mistaken for me
disliking them. I kill Avon the most often becuase I like him the most. Being
killed in one of my stories is a compliment <grin>. (The question is, would the
Godmother thank me if I killed Tarrant?)
If anyone ever wants to understand why I occasionally complain about
Blake-bashing, a study of Judith Seaman's work will probably explain why. I
have to mentally edit out all references to Blake in her work - and have to pass
entirely on some stories. She's an excellent writer which makes her hatred of
Blake all the more frustrating. She's the only writer I know who seriously
believes that Blake intended to kill Avon at Gauda Prime. The first time I read
one of them I thought: 'that's an interesting idea'- I'll try most ideas once
myself. Then I realised that it was a common thread in all her stories. Then I
realised that you could predict the end of any of her stories that had both
Blake and Avon in them by assuming that whatever Blake was doing would turn out
to be stupid, misguided, and cause Avon to suffer.
I was a die-hard pure Avon fan in those days, and I still found it irritating
because it didn't mesh with what I saw on screen.
I know I've said it before - but Judith Seaman was a major factor in converting
me to liking Blake. I had to reassess him because he simply couldn't be as bad
as she wrote him.
I'd still recommend many of her zines though (there's several available through
the Avon club). She does wonderful Avon angst. Nobody makes him suffer quite
so well as she does. I just wish she'd finish 'Ghost' but I don't think she
ever will. She said to me once that the thought of having to check through the
whole saga to make sure she'd got all the continuity points correct was very
daunting and I know what she means.
'Program' was a zine that made a massive impact on me when I first read it.
Judith sells that one herself, though I don't know how easy it is to get now. I
occasionally order copies from her for Australian fans (via Pat Fenech to avoid
currency conversion costs for fans down under) and it's often many months before
she cashes the cheque. However, nobody's complained about zines not arriving,
so I guess she's still mailing them out.
Judith (Proctor - not Smith, Rolls or Seaman - all of whom I have been mistaken
for on at least one occasion)
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:12:35 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zeeona
Message-ID: <96cea14f.361a6ba3@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-10-06 14:11:34 EDT, you write:
<< First couple of times I watched Series 1 and 2, I wondered why Blake
didn't shove a certain irritating little bastard out the airlock...
>>
Probably because the irritating little bastard learned more about the
Liberator and Zen in the first 48 hours on board than the others did in the
first month, and made himself indispensable; one of the reasons I liked his
character. If you're going to be an irritating bastard, the best kind is one
that people have to put up with, no matter their preferences:) D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:13:36 -0400
From: Jane MacDonald <cylanmaster@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
Message-ID: <199810061513_MC2-5BD4-5AB3@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Judith Proctor wrote:
> If this was the case, then the neutralising agent could have been
released on
> Liberator once the crew were dead.
How were they going to do this?
Jackie wrote:
>I`ve always believed that the virus needed `something` to work on. In
>the experiment, the victim was in a confined space. Once the virus had
>*eaten* the victim, it died a natural death.
This is the best explanation I have heard
>Or how the Android lost her coverall in the first place?
I don't think that she lost it, but that her clothes were changed because
it was so cold.
>and why did nobody discover the glass bauble when they removed the
garment?
That's a good question. It's a good job they weren't too rough with it.
>Why was the prison coverall kept in the first place and not disposed of -
were
>the crew planning to give it back to Avalon as a momento of her stay?
Perhaps they were planning to use it as a disguise to infiltrate some
Federation prison <smile>
Cylan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 20:48:38 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <361A7416.7B2E@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Lorna B. wrote:
>
> Jackie said:
>
> >Perhaps Tarrant never finished his course. Then again, he WAS
> >Federation trained. Perhaps it was taught that it was accptable to lead
> >by intimidation - look at how all Federation soldiers behave. This
> >*intimidation* was what Blake was fighting against, surely?
>
> Considering Blake wasn't above using the occasional bit of intimidation
> himself (see "Bounty"), somehow I don't think that was his goal.
Blake put his crew in a lot more danger, and with far more frequency
than Vila`s drinking habits ever did. Blake also lied to his crew (and
Gan ended up dead). As Avon said (somewhere?) Blake believed in freedom
for the masses, not his followers.
> As I see it, the main reason Tarrant was challenging Avon for leadership is
> because Avon *wasn't leading*! Frankly, Avon just pissed around for quite a
> bit of third series. Once Avon finally got around to taking control,
> Tarrant (mostly) backed down. I didn't see Tarrant jockeying to be top dog,
> so we're obviously watching two different series here. :-)
Sarcophagus is near the end of series 3 and if that argument between
Tarrant & Avon is`nt challenging for top dog........?
That is the beauty of discussion, everyone watches exactly the same
thing, but *sees* things differently!! :-)
(snip)
> Which I'm sure would prove marvelously comforting to those crewmembers who
> ended up dead or captured because Vila fell asleep or got tanked on the job.
> Sorry, but I'm with Tarrant on this one--Vila needed someone to come down on
> him now and then. In fact, it wasn't done nearly often enough.
Off hand I can only think of one instance when Vila was "drunk on duty"
(maybe there ARE more, but I don`t have the time at the moment to look
up the info). That was in "Rumours" when he pulled all but Avon from the
underground celler without resetting the co-ordinates.
Of course, if he`d been sober and done his job properly, then maybe *I*
would have been cheated out of the most *fantastic* scene in the whole
episode (where Servalan carreses the gun around Avon`s
face!!!!!!!!):-)))))
Tarrant`s actions/ plans in the 3rd series put the crew in danger more
often than not:
Harvest of Kairos; Tarrants plan to steal the shipment. Avon made the
save TWICE!
City...: that has been discussed on the list.
Moloch: It`s at Tarrant`s insistance that they go down on the planet,
then he finds that Vila isn`t as easily bullied as he thought. ha! I
thought that Tarrants expression showed that he realised Vila had made a
fool of him all along.
Believe it or not I do not dislike Tarrant, I think he`s quite sweet,
just not my type. :-)
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:12:25 +1000
From: "Katrina Harkess" <kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zeeona
Message-Id: <199810062015.GAA12162@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
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> >>It just about adds up if you accept that she had little or no
confidence
> >>in Zukan, and by extension, Avon's alliance. I notice she referred to
> >>it as "your [Avon's] rebel alliance" later on -- deliberately
> >>dissociating herself from any part in it. That isn't a very attractive
> >>trait -- just waiting in the background and criticising without
actively
> >>involving herself in the crew's plans -- but then she was a calculating
> >>soul...
> >
> >That last sentence is an apt description of another regular character in
the
> >show. Any guesses on who it could be? <eg>
>
> First couple of times I watched Series 1 and 2, I wondered why Blake
> didn't shove a certain irritating little bastard out the airlock...
*points at the she!* Come on peoples, where's the thoughts on the -girls-
in B7?
Katrina.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:52:53 +-100
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-ID: <01BDF177.DB1C2920@tracy>
Una was wondering where she came across the idea that George Spenton-Foster
and Brian Croucher didn't get on. I'm sure I've heard/read Brian himself in
interviews say that he found his first episode particularly difficult
because he got no help from the director... though I couldn't give a
specific reference for this.
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:27:05 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
Message-ID: <4wW5kKA5DmG2EwUq@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <19981005233604.12074.qmail@hotmail.com>, Joanne MacQueen
<j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes
>Given the new quote at the
>bottom of Julia's posts, I think there are others looking in much the
>same direction <chuckle> but I'm not sure it's the same section of
>guttering.
I acquired _Last Continent_ at the Discworld con a couple of weeks ago,
and I went straight from reading that particular page to my computer :-)
I adore Avon, but one of the reasons I adore him is that he's a vicious
little bastard - much more interesting to watch than the usual clean-cut
hero. I'd go into more detail but I'm busy going nuts at the moment with
trying to get the Space City zine finished in time for Eclecticon. Just
my luck for a seriously tempting thread to pop up when I don't have
time.
As for guttering - there's one bit of pipework I'm always happy to look
at :->
--
Julia Jones
"One of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset
someone wearing black leather" - Terry Pratchett, _The Last Continent_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:37:17 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
Message-ID: <u$$M3kDdupG2EwHN@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Marcel-1.46-1006103058-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
>She's the only writer I know who seriously
>believes that Blake intended to kill Avon at Gauda Prime.
<blink>
How on earth does anyone come to that conclusion?
Maybe I'm terribly naive. Maybe I was fifteen at the time. But what I
saw the first time I watched Blake, and what I still see, is a tragic
misunderstanding, with no one person truly to blame. It's a wonderful
piece of twist-the-knife writing by Boucher. Even if there wasn't all
the evidence liberally scattered about the episode that Blake is using
the bounty hunter routine as cover for rebel activities - you'd lose the
emotional impact of the final scene if Avon was really justified in
shooting Blake, as opposed to making the wrong decision for the right
reasons (right, given the information he had).
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:41:17 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zeeona
Message-ID: <x$LL3pDNypG2EwFX@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199810062015.GAA12162@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU>, Katrina Harkess
<kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au> writes
>> First couple of times I watched Series 1 and 2, I wondered why Blake
>> didn't shove a certain irritating little bastard out the airlock...
>
>*points at the she!* Come on peoples, where's the thoughts on the -girls-
>in B7?
>
I was just pointing out that just because I like Avon doesn't mean that
I think he is faultless - indeed, that's why I like him, because he's
far from faultless - and that fans of other characters may feel the same
way about their object of desire.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:23:36 +0100
From: "Jenni -Alison" <Jenni-Alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-Id: <199810070042.CAA27612@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Jackie Wrote:
>
> Sarcophagus is near the end of series 3 and if that argument between
> Tarrant & Avon is`nt challenging for top dog........?
> That is the beauty of discussion, everyone watches exactly the same
> thing, but *sees* things differently!! :-)
I've always thought that Avon was actually watching Cally and the Egg
thingy rather closely while arguing with Tarrant, and that he picked the
fight to distract Tarrant from seeing what Cally was doing. He certainly
calmed it down again pretty fast for someone who was that agressive a few
seconds before Cally finished her fiddling. We havn't seen Avon that
argumentative before (just sniping, sarcastic and picky) which always
makes me suspicious. Anyone else see this or is it my imagination?
What I wonder is why Avon wanted to distract Tarrant. It certainly wasn't a
good idea to indulge their intellectual curiosity.
> Believe it or not I do not dislike Tarrant, I think he`s quite sweet,
> just not my type. :-)
He grows on you. He is sweet, but he's also brave, handsome, reliable, and
when you look into Steven Pacey's eyes........sigh. Time to go look at
those pictures from the Godmother again.
Jenni
(Who's finally managed to get a telephone line installed in her new house
after 10 days without one - Cable and Wireless really are incompetent and
unprofessional to an astonishing degree).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 01:55:00 GMT
From: s.thompson8@genie.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Double standards
Message-Id: <199810070221.CAA13189@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Suzanne, as to whether Avon and Vila were being irresponsible when they went
off to the casino in Gambit, thereby perhaps stranding Blake & Co. if
emergency teleport had been needed-- well, remember, they did take Orac with
them! So there wouldn't have been anyone left on board to activate the
teleport. Orac apparently can do it long distance, so Avon and Vila could
get back again, but they had to count on being able to return before the
others did.
I have to admit, I had never thought of this problem before. First and
second season Avon =was= a brat, wasn't he! An adorable one, but still. I
shudder to think how the third, much less the fourth season Avon would have
reacted to anyone who endangered =his= precious skin in such a way!
Sarah T.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:20:57 EDT
From: SuzanThoms@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Double standards
Message-ID: <7555edb1.361ade19@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>>Sarah wrote:
>>well, remember, they did take Orac with them! So there wouldn't have
>>been anyone left on board to activate the teleport. Orac apparently can
>>do it long distance, so Avon and Vila could get back again, but they
>>had to count on being able to return before the others did. <<
I've loaned that tape to a friend so I don't have it here to check, but didn't
Vila ask Avon, "what if Blake needs to teleport back before we get back?" and
didn't Avon anwer, "ORAC can teleport them back from the surface." (or words
similar to that)
Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:56:03 +0100 (BST)
From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray)
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Vere Lorrimer
Message-Id: <199810071056.LAA27629@dux1.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To anyone who is interested and has access to a copy, there was a
_very_ good interview with Vere Lorrimer published in Horizon's newsletter
No 31 (May 1994), pp 23-7.
Murray Smith
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #254
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