From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #255
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/255
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se

------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

blakes7-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 255

Today's Topics:
	 Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
	 [B7L] Tarrant Nostra bites back ?
	 Re: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
	 Re: [B7L] Double standards
	 [B7L] Re: Project Avalaon
	 Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
	 [B7L] Re: Double standards
	 [B7L] Re: Double standards
	 Re: [B7L] Double standards
	 RE: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
	 [B7L] Guttering
	 [B7L] Rosemary (back on topic)
	 [B7L] Re: Boucher on Boucher
	 [B7L] Guttering
	 [B7L] Re: Boucher on Boucher
	 [B7L] Fwd: Re: Vere Lorrimer
	 Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
	 [B7L] Re:  Double standards
	 Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
	 [B7L] Another thought on Orbit
	 [B7L] re:unsubscribe
	 [B7L] re: Double Standards

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:44:06 +0100
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Steve Rogerson" <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>,
        "Lysator" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-Id: <199810071317.OAA08236@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
> To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
> Date: 05 October 1998 17:51
> 
> The current issue of SFX in the UK (No 44 Novemver) has a review of the
> Fabulous Films video release containing Shadow and Weapon. Nothing
> surprising there apart from the fact that both those episodes were
> written by Chris Boucher and the reviewer is.. er, Chris Boucher.

Must ask Anthony if he'll let me review my next book when it comes out...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:06:55 +0100
From: "fifitrix" <fifitrix@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra bites back ?
Message-ID: <01bdf1fb$bdc91840$1b649384@idscarf.unichem.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob said :
>But when we try to explain why we can't stand him, the Tarrant
>Nostra chime in and point out that Avon has the same faults

Its not that we don't like Avon - in fact quite the opposite - Avon has the
ability to make me melt with just a look........but the less said about that
the better because I'm at work, and just thinking about it can make me come
over all strange.

I would say that many people have a go at Tarrant because he is an easy
target.  Rob is right when he says that he is not the most likeable
character at first.  He is presented as an adversary to Avon, and even when
it turns out that he was on the right side at the end, he has already
knocked Avon out.  This could hardly be described as endearing behaviour
especially as (and this is a guess) most Tarrant fans would say that their
favourite character pre-Powerplay is Avon. (based on my own opinion - feel
free to flame me!)  Certainly this is true for myself and I would even go as
far to say that I like them both equally.

(Godmother, I beg most humble forgiveness)

Fifitrix

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:51:21 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1007075121-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Tue 06 Oct, Jane MacDonald wrote:
> Judith Proctor wrote:
> 
> > If this was the case, then the neutralising agent could have been released
> > on Liberator once the crew were dead.
> 
> How were they going to do this?

let an expendable trooper board the ship with it.

> 
> Jackie wrote:
> 
> >I`ve always believed that the virus needed `something` to work on.  In
> >the experiment, the victim was in a confined space.  Once the virus had
> >*eaten* the victim, it died a natural death.
> 
> This is the best explanation I have heard

I don't go for this one because the original point still holds.  If the virus
went for 28 seconds without something to eat then it supposedly died.  It would
be very easy for a Liberator crew member to escape under such conditions.  It
would only require one crew member to be in te cargo holds or in a cabin off
duty and they'd be out of range before the virus starved to death.

> 
> >Or how the Android lost her coverall in the first place?
> 
> I don't think that she lost it, but that her clothes were changed because
> it was so cold.

An android?  Cold?

> >Why was the prison coverall kept in the first place and not disposed of -
> >were the crew planning to give it back to Avalon as a momento of her stay?
> 
> Perhaps they were planning to use it as a disguise to infiltrate some
> Federation prison <smile>

I can believe them keeping it.  They had virtually everything else in that
wardrobe room.  What's a prison robe between friends?

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:48:45 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Double standards
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1007064845-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Wed 07 Oct, SuzanThoms@aol.com wrote:
> >>Sarah wrote:
> >>well, remember, they did take Orac with them!  So there wouldn't have 
> >>been anyone left on board to activate the teleport.  Orac apparently can 
> >>do it long distance, so Avon and Vila could get back again, but they 
> >>had to count on being able to return before the others did.  <<
> 
> I've loaned that tape to a friend so I don't have it here to check, but didn't
> Vila ask Avon, "what if Blake needs to teleport back before we get back?"  and
> didn't Avon anwer, "ORAC can teleport them back from the surface." (or words
> similar to that)

That's correct, but Orac was still slower than a human being.  Blake, Jenna and
Cally were asking questions about a Federation renegade, so they could easily
have been spotted and needed a fast pull out.

Actually, I've always wondered how they knew Docholli was on Freedom City in the
first place...  (One of Orac's guesses, I suppose, but still a bit dodgy)

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:37:45 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Project Avalaon
Message-ID: <361BA6E8.6907408A@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jacqueline said: "What surprised me is that Gan found the tunic near the
teleporter. Did they undress her and give her other clothes right after
they came on board?"

And if so, why weren't we shown this scene?
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson

Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

"Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell"
Star Wars

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:56:34 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-Id: <199810071757.MAA24763@pemberton.magnolia.net>

Jackie said:

>Sarcophagus is near the end of series 3 and if that argument between
>Tarrant & Avon is`nt challenging for top dog........?

Take a closer look at that scene.  It's very obvious (to me, anyway) that
the Trojan Egg is exerting some sort of influence on both Tarrant and Avon
at that point, exacerbating their differences to draw attention away from
Cally's actions.  I won't say the feelings expressed weren't real, but they
were exaggerated by the Egg.

>Off hand I can only think of one instance when Vila was "drunk on duty"
>(maybe there ARE more, but I don`t have the time at the moment to look
>up the info). That was in "Rumours" when he pulled all but Avon from the
>underground celler without resetting the co-ordinates.

He was dozing on teleport duty in at least one early episode.  He was
drinking on the job in several others, though I don't have the episodes
right to hand.

>Of course, if he`d been sober and done his job properly, then maybe *I*
>would have been cheated out of the most *fantastic* scene in the whole
>episode (where Servalan carreses the gun around Avon`s
>face!!!!!!!!):-)))))

Well, of course.  I wouldn't want to change Vila--he's my favorite character
and I like him with the flaws intact.  But that's no reason for the other
*characters* who interact with him to overlook said flaws, which could well
get them killed.  Tarrant was right to crack down on Vila--some of his
behaviors were potentially dangerous to the entire crew.

>Tarrant`s actions/ plans in the 3rd series put the crew in danger more
>often than not:
>Harvest of Kairos; Tarrants plan to steal the shipment. Avon made the
>save TWICE!
>City...: that has been discussed on the list.

Sure.  And so did a lot of Avon's actions and plans.  And Blake's.  Gan's.
The list goes on and on.  So why are Tarrant's actions so much more
egregious than any of these others?  This shoe fits all of the characters,
as far as I'm concerned.

>Moloch: It`s at Tarrant`s insistance that they go down on the planet,
>then he finds that Vila isn`t as easily bullied as he thought. ha! I
>thought that Tarrants expression showed that he realised Vila had made a
>fool of him all along.

Vila mutinied in the middle of a mission.  That's just plain stupid.  What
would your opinion be had it been Avon and Tarrant on the planet, with
Tarrant deciding to suddenly throw in his lot with the newly inducted
Federation troopers, and to hell with the people he'd been working with the
last few years?

I didn't see Tarrant thinking himself a fool in the scene you mention; I saw
it more as a "Well, that didn't work, did it?" sort of expression when his
last-ditch attempt at reason fails to provide results.  And note that Vila
really isn't intimidated all that much by Tarrant.  He pushes the gun aside
quite readily.  Not something I'd be inclined to do with someone who bullied
and threatened me on a regular basis.  Vila knew Tarrant wouldn't kill
him--they've crewed together long enough for both of them to realize that.

>Believe it or not I do not dislike Tarrant, I think he`s quite sweet,
>just not my type. :-)

That's nice.  I just don't understand why he has to be held to a different
standard of behavior than the rest of the crew.  They all have their
problems, and we love 'em for them.

Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn?  You're the best mom ever!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:10:06 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Double standards
Message-ID: <0XbK9JAOPxG2EwnK@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <199810070221.CAA13189@rock103.genie.net>,
s.thompson8@genie.com writes
>I have to admit, I had never thought of this problem before.  First and
>second season Avon =was= a brat, wasn't he!  An adorable one, but still.  I
>shudder to think how the third, much less the fourth season Avon would have
>reacted to anyone who endangered =his= precious skin in such a way!

There's a lovely description of him in one of the stories I'm editing at
the moment - Tarrant telling himself that he's behaving as badly as Avon
in Sulky Adolescent From Hell mode...

-- 
Julia Jones

"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:06:52 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Double standards
Message-ID: <199810071507_MC2-5BF4-DFEF@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Judith wrote:
>Actually it was stated in another episode that Orac 
>was slower on the teleport than a human operator was.

I took it to mean slower in practice - you have to wait while Orac
complains about the gross misuse of his capabilities.

Harriet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:40:27 -0400
From: Jane MacDonald <cylanmaster@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Double standards
Message-ID: <199810071740_MC2-5BFC-8BD0@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

SuzanThoms@aol.com wrote

>I can't imagine Avon feeling compelled to hide his actions from Blake.  

and Judith? replied

> I suspect his main reason was not wanting Blake to know how much money
they had made

I agree with this.  Blake already seems to have button holded the contents
of the Liberator strongroom for the revolution.  I am sure Avon wouldn't
have wanted him to have got the same ideas about the winnings

Cylan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:40:29 -0400
From: Jane MacDonald <cylanmaster@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
Message-ID: <199810071741_MC2-5BFC-8BD4@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Judith wrote:

> If this was the case, then the neutralising agent could have been
released
> on Liberator once the crew were dead.

 I asked:

> How were they going to do this?

Judith replied:

>let an expendable trooper board the ship with it.

Oh, yes, silly me

Jacqueline wrote:

>What surprised me is that Gan found the tunic near the teleporter. Did
they undress her and give her >other clothes right after they came on
board?

Yes I think that they probably did.   You have to remember how cold it was
on the planet.  The crew would have been more concerned for Avalon's health
than her modesty.

And Judith wrote:

>An android?  Cold?

The crew didn't know that she was an android at this point and si she had
to act as if she were cold.

Cylan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:09:33 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Guttering
Message-ID: <19981007230935.14392.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Julia says:
>I adore Avon, but one of the reasons I adore him is that he's a 
>vicious little bastard

Thankyou, Julia. I think even the most starry-eyed Avon fanciers take 
that on board quite early. Not that the twelve-year-old me was at all 
starry-eyed about the character - I would have agreed with that comment 
even then.

Also:
>As for guttering - there's one bit of pipework I'm always happy to look 
>at :->

<wide-eyed, raised eyebrow expression> Now I KNOW we aren't looking at 
the same section of guttering. (Not that I'm trying for moral 
superiority - that's a bit difficult where the subject matter's 
concerned.) Nicola seems familiar with it, however, if an earlier post 
of hers is any indication <grin>

>never to upset someone wearing black leather

But he can be such a touchy so-and-so - how does one avoid it? (Umm, in 
light of the comment about "pipework", touchy seems to be the wrong 
word...)

Regards
Joanne

Discretion is not the better part of biography.
--Lytton Strachey


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:33:45 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Rosemary (back on topic)
Message-ID: <19981007233345.12234.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Rob:
Rosemary is for remembrance and, as Carol keeps having to remind me of 
what a wonderful person he is <grin>, it might just be an appropriate 
plant symbol for Tarrant.

I agree with you about the 64-tooth grin, by the way. Avon is in 
possession of a similar set. No wonder they irritated each other at 
times <chuckle> I'm just going to have to dig out my copy of "The 
Restaurant At The End Of The Universe" now - that quote I mentioned 
about the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal fits in here, and it might 
just link back to the discussion about Soolin, as the relevant section 
of Adams' book relates to people who use guns a lot.

Regards
Joanne

Well, there's nothing so rum it might not be true.
--William Herrick Macaulay


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:38:08 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Boucher on Boucher
Message-ID: <19981007233808.14922.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Una and Iain, you are not dreaming. It is in Sheelagh Wells' book. I'm 
sure you've checked since posting, but it will be nice for you to know 
that your copies are the same as everyone else's <smile>

Regards 
Joanne

Do not attempt to write on both sides of the paper at once.
--Sellar and Yeatman, "1066 and All That".

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:09:02 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Guttering
Message-Id: <l03130300b241b1b90d51@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Joanne said:
><wide-eyed, raised eyebrow expression> Now I KNOW we aren't looking at
>the same section of guttering. (Not that I'm trying for moral
>superiority - that's a bit difficult where the subject matter's
>concerned.) Nicola seems familiar with it, however, if an earlier post
>of hers is any indication <grin>

[Raises one eyebrow quizzically]
Guttering or moral superiority? ;)
ttfn, Nicola (who probably shouldn't have asked....)

---
Nicola Collie		mailto:nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz

Friends help you move.  Real friends help you move bodies.
27 sleeps!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:06:49 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Boucher on Boucher
Message-ID: <199810071507_MC2-5BF4-DFED@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Una wrote, re George Spenton Foster's treatment of Brian Croucher:
>Where have I read this? Is it in the Sheelagh
> Wells book? I'm sure I've read this and it isn't 
>just a figment of my imagination!

It may well be in the book, but I've heard different cast members (not
Croucher!) at different conventions saying how appallingly the director
behaved towards him when he was already in a very difficult position
(taking over the role from Stephen Greif).

Harriet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:09:24 -0700
From: "Jim Bartlett" <jimbart@my-dejanews.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Fwd: Re: Vere Lorrimer
Message-ID: <ECHKFJFAHCMPFAAA@my-dejanews.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 I sent a copy of the Horizon obituary for Vere Lorrimer to the Birmingham School of Speech and Drama, to let them know how highly he was regarded by the fans of Blake's 7. I have received this reply, which I thought I would pass on. Michael Gaunt's most notable role was in the second series as Bax in 'Killer', and there is a more recent picture of him in the BSSD Web site.

Cheers,  Jim Bartlett

--

--------- Forwarded Message ---------

DATE: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:17:23 
From: "BSSD" <bssd@bssd.ac.uk>
To: "Jim Bartlett" <jimbart@my-dejanews.com>


Dear Jim Bartlett

Thank you for the obituary of Vere. I passed it onto Michael Gaunt our Vice
Principal who first met Vere when acting in Z Cars and later went on to
appear in Blake's 7. He and Vere were firm friends and Vere recently
directed our second year students in a TV workshop.

We are pleased that you found the photographs helpful, please feel free to
use them - but obviously not for personal gain.

Yours sincerely

Simon Woods
Chief Executive


--------- End Forwarded Message ---------




-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:23:55 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1007082355-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Tue 06 Oct, Julia Jones wrote:
> In message <Marcel-1.46-1006103058-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
> Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
> >She's the only writer I know who seriously
> >believes that Blake intended to kill Avon at Gauda Prime.
> 
> <blink>
> 
> How on earth does anyone come to that conclusion?

You'd be amazed.  I'm not going to repeat her argument here, as it is long,
complicated and requires suspension of disbelief.  I think I once wrote an
article picking her theory to shreds, but I've no idea when or where. (possibly
in the Horizon letterzine)

> 
> Maybe I'm terribly naive. Maybe I was fifteen at the time. But what I
> saw the first time I watched Blake, and what I still see, is a tragic
> misunderstanding, with no one person truly to blame. It's a wonderful
> piece of twist-the-knife writing by Boucher. Even if there wasn't all
> the evidence liberally scattered about the episode that Blake is using
> the bounty hunter routine as cover for rebel activities - you'd lose the
> emotional impact of the final scene if Avon was really justified in
> shooting Blake, as opposed to making the wrong decision for the right
> reasons (right, given the information he had).

Well exactly.  That's what the script writer intended.  (Judith's theory was
that Blake intended to sell Avon for the bounty in order to finance his rebel
activities) 

To me, the fact that Avon got it wrong, and realised that he got it wrong even
as Blake is dying in his arms, is one of the most emotional moments of the
entire series.  I love the way that he then moves to protect Blake's body from
the troopers.  He's almost crying.

Avon's capacity for loyalty and love is one of his most endearing qualities,
(along with brains, sex-appeal, a gift for computers, a taste for black leather
and a razor-sharp wit)

Changing tack slightly - isn't it great to have a series where the computer
expert isn't a nerdy little guy in glasses?  Our computer expert is a ruthless
bastard in black leather.  Yea!

Judith (who is prejudiced because she's married to a computer expert who doesn't
fit the media stereotype either - in fact most of the computer experts I ever
knew were gregarious types with a taste for bad puns) (I wonder how many people
took up computing because they liked Avon?)

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  8 Oct 98 01:41:00 GMT 
From: s.thompson8@genie.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:  Double standards
Message-Id: <199810080211.CAA00118@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Suzanne, I just rewatched the relevant section of Gambit.  I didn't take
notes, but when Avon comments that Orac can operate the teleport from the
surface, it's in response to Vila's question as to how =they= will get back
if they go down to the Big Wheel.  Later, when Vila asks how =Blake= will
get back, Avon says that they will be sure to be back before him.

Oh, naughty Avon!  That whole escapade was his idea, although Vila certainly
went along with it willingly enough.

And Avon looks so young in that ep.  Sheesh, I'd forgotten.  My favorite
season, the one I rewatch most often, is the fourth, so I'm used to a
slightly more decayed version (all the more toothsome for it, of course...)

Sarah T.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:12:44 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <1677408e.361c901c@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-10-07 14:21:54 EDT, you write:

<< Vila mutinied in the middle of a mission.   >>




   Huh? Seems to me, if Tarrant had lowered his testesterone count for a
minute, Vila's actions made perfect sense. He's infiltrated the enemy, albiet
accidently, and has someone who will assist him. The best Tarrant can do is
wander around till the surveyllence system spots him. Tarrant should have let
Vila run for awhile: it's not likely that being the long-term buddy of a
psycopath would lure him away from the relative comfort  of the Liberator(and
I won't go down the road that last statement opened up). Tarrant blew it in
this one. He didn't ask Vila if he had a plan, he became belligerent when
there was still a chance Vila could have talked Tarrant into the same setup as
himself, and then Tarrant gets himself captured. If you want to call Vila's
actions mutiny, then I'd say it was committed under extenuating circumstances.
       D. Rose

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:20:37 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Another thought on Orbit
Message-ID: <c579a86d.361c91f5@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

   Got to thinking after the discussion about Avon's motives in Stardrive,
reference Vila.
   The more I thought about it, the more I realize that the true horror of
Orbit is not just that Avon is ready to kill Vila, but that he does so just
after we've seen him and Avon sharing comaraderie that brings back to mind 2nd
series.
   It's one of the few times in 4th series that we see the two bantering
extensively, and where they interact one on  one. To me, it just makes the
whole episode that muchmore heartbreaking. Any thoughts?        D. Rose

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:08:01 GMT
From: "Dita Stanistraken" <d.stanistraken@dundee.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re:unsubscribe
Message-Id: <E0zRDw3-0002q3-00@pp.dundee.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:02:23 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <361CC5EF.628F@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lorna B. wrote:
> 
> Jackie said:
> 
> >Sarcophagus is near the end of series 3 and if that argument between
> >Tarrant & Avon is`nt challenging for top dog........?
> 
> Take a closer look at that scene.  It's very obvious (to me, anyway)
> that the Trojan Egg is exerting some sort of influence on both Tarrant
> and Avon at that point, exacerbating their differences to draw 
> attention away from Cally's actions.  I won't say the feelings 
> expressed weren't real, but they were exaggerated by the Egg.

I agree with you that they were exaggerated, but if they were`nt there
in the first place.....Tarrant`s desire to be top dog are pretty near
the surface to get that force of reaction from him. 

re: Moloch 
> Vila mutinied in the middle of a mission.  

A mission that had already gone wrong - Tarrant had been teleported into
the relative safety of a store room/false wall.  Vila ended up right out
in the open, on a ship full of transporting convicts.  Vila did what he
always did. Adapted, and made the best of the situation (as well as get
himself another *protector*)

(another snip)
> That's just plain stupid.  What would your opinion be had it been Avon
> and Tarrant on the planet, with Tarrant deciding to suddenly throw in > his lot with the newly inducted Federation troopers, and to hell with > the people he'd been working with the last few years?

Perhaps Vila had decided to leave the Liberator (as Avon did with XJ72)?
After all with Tarrant forever picking on him on the Ship, perhaps the
lure of  ruling his own planet (isn`t that what Doran said was going to
be their reward?) was too much to pass up.  A planet of his own came up
again on the Shuttle on Orbit as well - so it was obviously an ambition
of his.
Just exactly who on the Liberator accepted Vila. Dayna didn`t like him.
Tarrant bullied him, Jenna didn`t like him (she was alpha, he was delta,
nothing personal), Cally was an alien, and both Blake & Avon risked HIS
life to further their own plans.  Gan was his friend, but he was also
dead (furthering someone else`s plans)

> I didn't see Tarrant thinking himself a fool in the scene you mention;
> I saw it more as a "Well, that didn't work, did it?" sort of
> expression when his last-ditch attempt at reason -

REASON??!!?? I would not call the threat of shooting someone, an attempt
at reason, intimidation-yes, reason-no.

> - fails to provide results.  And note that Vila really isn't
> intimidated all that much by Tarrant.  He pushes the gun aside quite
> readily.  Not something I'd be inclined to do with someone who bullied > and threatened me on a regular basis.  

Vila was now with people who thought like him, acted like him.  The type
of people he grew up with in the delta parts of Earth.  People who
accepted him for what he was, and weren`t trying to change him or
continually bully &/or insult him.  At that time Vila did not know of
the trouble brewing on the planet,  so could be forgiven for wanting out
of his problems on the Liberator
 
> Vila knew Tarrant wouldn't kill  him--they've crewed together long 
> enough for both of them to realize that.

Try: Vila knew that Tarrant wouldn`t kill him because it would alert
other people to Tarrant`s presence, which would be dangerous to
Tarrant`s well-being.

> >Believe it or not I do not dislike Tarrant, I think he`s quite sweet,
> >just not my type. :-)

> That's nice.  I just don't understand why he has to be held to a
> different standard of behavior than the rest of the crew.  

He doesnt. I can be argumentatively against any and all of the crew,
including Avon.  A little while ago I had a go at Blake, and got my tail
shot off for my troubles (:-)). It`s just *fun* to shake the cage every
once in a while don`t you think? :-)

   
> They all have their problems, and we love 'em for them.
 
This is very true, but only Avon puts a little knot in the pit of my
stomach, everytime he comes on screen. :-)

Bye for now

Jackie

--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #255
**************************************