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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 257
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Re: [B7L} Arbiter/Egrorian
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] [B7] Sins
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] re: Double Standards
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] re Double Standards
Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
Re: [B7L] Guttering
Re: [B7L] re Double Standards
Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] Re: Sins
Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] re:Double Standards
[B7L] Videos
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] Avengers
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
[B7L] Re: Double Standards
Re: [B7L] re Double Standards
[B7L] re Double Standards
[B7L] re Double Standards
Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:21:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: [B7L} Arbiter/Egrorian
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.981009171918.15087A-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Julie asked:
>Last night we were watching our newly acquired video of Trial/Killer and
>when the Arbiter of the Trial came in we were both sure that it was the
>same actor who played Egrorian.
>
>Trouble is it's a long time since I watched Orbit and I was surprised
>that I had never heard anyone comment on this before so I wondered if
>perhaps I am mistaken.
>
>Can someone put me out of my misery on this?
Glad to oblige - yep, same guy, John Savident. Recently to be spotted in
'Coronation Street', I do believe (tho' that could be the effects of the
TV-trivia mind-rays emanating from West Cambridge...)
Una
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pre-menstrual historian: 'It's NOT my period!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:52:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.981009164929.10555A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 Mac4781@aol.com wrote:
> I'd have nothing but admiration for Vila if he decided to walk away from the
> rebellion, Liberator, and his shipmates for good. But that never seemed to be
> his objective; it was more going with the flow of the moment and avoiding as
> much work and danger as possible. (As soon as Tarrant appeared safer than
> Doran, Vila was scampering back to Tarrant.)
This reminds me of the behaviour of everybody's favourite techie in
"Breakdown". But that's by the way.
> If you are going to reap the
> benefits of the team, it seems as if you should also accept the
> responsibilities.
What benefits would these be exactly? Oh sure, they would risk their necks
to get him out of trouble - but they're the reason he's in the trouble in
the first place.
Which Vila was reluctant to do. He reminds me of a saying
> of my neighbor's "Vila is someone who wants a job but doesn't want to have to
> work."
I know the feeling. I knew there had to be some reason I like the chap.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:52:56 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] [B7] Sins
Message-ID: <012701bdf39d$564ddb80$3b5995c1@orac>
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Another little list game. I was trying this afternoon to fit=20
each of the first season crew to one of the seven deadly
sins. It proved really difficult as some of them qualify in
several categories while others seem to be truly without
stain.
However he is my attempt, anyone got any improvements?
Anger Blake Well he _is_ an angry young man - angry
with the Federation, injustice etc.
Pride Orac Pride to the point of arrogance in his own
abilities (mind you who else does that
remind you of?)
Avarice Avon My dictionary says "greed for gain",
enough said.
Sloth Vila He has spent all his life avoiding work.
Lust Jenna Getting difficult now, but I'm guessing
she indulges a few lustful thoughts about
Blake at the very least
Gluttony Gan Well the poor dear must have eaten quite
a bit to get that big.
Envy Cally? And I confess I really struggled at this=20
point but it was the only sin I had left
for her.
Julie Horner
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Another little list game. I was =
trying this=20
afternoon to fit </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>each of the first season crew to one =
of the=20
seven deadly</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>sins. It proved really difficult as =
some of them=20
qualify in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>several categories while others seem =
to be truly=20
without</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>stain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>However he is my attempt, anyone got =
any=20
improvements?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Anger =20
Blake Well he _is_ an angry young man - =
angry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
with the Federation, injustice etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Pride =20
Orac Pride to the point of arrogance in =
his=20
own</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
abilities (mind you who else does that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
remind you of?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Avarice =20
Avon My dictionary says "greed for=20
gain",</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
enough said.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Sloth =20
Vila He has spent all his life avoiding=20
work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Lust =20
Jenna Getting difficult now, but I'm =
guessing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
she indulges a few lustful thoughts about</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
Blake at the very least</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Gluttony =
Gan =20
Well the poor dear must have eaten quite</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
a bit to get that big.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Envy =20
Cally? And I confess I really struggled at this =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
point but it was the only sin I had left</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
for her.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Julie =
Horner</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:24:40 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1009082440-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 08 Oct, Rob Clother wrote:
> Judith, I take your point about Avon's capacity for love. And, as Sue
> Clerc pointed out, he earns a lot of cred in "Pressure Point" for
> putting his arm round Blake when he was down. Still, at that moment in
> time he had a great deal of appeasing to do, not just for the way he
> treated Blake, but some very nasty comments aimed directly at Gan.
Avon isn't the appeasement type. Can anyone remember Avon ever saying sorry for
anything he'd done? (even if it was his fault)
I think he may possibly have apologised to Muller's 'lady' in Headhunter, but
has he ever apologised to another crew member?
> There is more than one example, but "Weapon" is the only one that I can
> think of. Gan pledges his allegiance to Blake, even in the event that
> Blake goes straight for the heart of the Federation. Avon belittles
> Gan's loyalty by suggesting that would leave Blake "almost alone."
> True, Gan was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but drawing
> attention to the fact in front of the crew was just plain childish.
> Especially given Gan's nature.
Avon was frequently nasty to Gan. Gan was a gentle, inoffensive anmd loyal man
- frequently under-rated. If I needed to have one of the crew back me up in a
tight corner, I'd give serious consideration to Gan. (I'm not talking about who
was the most attractive, witty, inteligent, etc. but who I'd feel safest with.
Gan - apart from when his limiter malfunctioned - was protective of weaker
people like Vila)
>
> By the time "Terminal" comes around, it seems like he's done his
> penance. In fact, "Terminal" begs a couple of interesting questions...
>
> "Sometimes your simple-minded certainties might have proved refreshing."
> Was that a reference to Tarrant, or was Avon complaining about the
> leadership role that seemed to have been thrust uopn him?
It's a back-handed way of saying that he wished Blake had been there. He's
saying that he missed Blake's conversation and his company. Being Avon, he has
to slip in a mild insult as defence even when he's admitting to needing Blake.
>
> If Avon had rescued Blake and brought him back to the Liberator, what
> would their dynamics have been like afterwards? For the first time,
> Avon had acknowledged that he needed Blake -- in a very Avon-like way, I
> concede -- but the admission was there, and that would have been
> impossible to deny.
Well <grin> if my neck wasn't playing up, I'd write you a couple of pages on
this topic.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 19:47:48 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <361E5A54.1011@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Judith Proctor wrote:
large amount of snipping
> Avon was frequently nasty to Gan. Gan was a gentle, inoffensive anmd loyal man
> - frequently under-rated. If I needed to have one of the crew back me up in a
> tight corner, I'd give serious consideration to Gan. (I'm not talking about who
> was the most attractive, witty, inteligent, etc. but who I'd feel safest with.
> Gan - apart from when his limiter malfunctioned - was protective of weaker
> people like Vila)
Gan would be the last one you should consider as back up. As he CANNOTT
kill (his words) he would be absolutely useless in protecting your
back. As he proved in Killer, he was physically unable to pull the
trigger to save himself or Jenna, much as he wanted and needed to.
I do agree that he was a gentle giant, and was very loyal, and
frequently underated. He could intimidate people just by his sheer size
(shame on the guard in Spacefall for not having read up on the prisoners
in his charge, so did not know that Gan couldn`t kill him!!)
It was a VERY great shame that Gan had to die. I missed him.
But I still reckon he was useless as back up!!
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:07:30 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-Id: <199810091904.OAA16528@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jackie wrote:
>Gan would be the last one you should consider as back up. As he CANNOTT
>kill (his words) he would be absolutely useless in protecting your
>back.
"Cannot kill" leaves a fair amount of leeway to fold, spindle and mutilate,
however. Gan wasn't incapable of physical violence (see "Deliverance" et
al); apparently it was the specific intent to kill that triggered the limiter.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 22:33:56 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re Double Standards
Message-ID: <361E8144.4CC4@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lisa Williams wrote:
>
> Jackie wrote:
>
> >Gan would be the last one you should consider as back up. As he CANNOTT
> >kill (his words) he would be absolutely useless in protecting your
> >back.
>
> "Cannot kill" leaves a fair amount of leeway to fold, spindle and mutilate,
> however. Gan wasn't incapable of physical violence (see "Deliverance" et
> al); apparently it was the specific intent to kill that triggered the limiter.
So why didn`t he try to injure the man in Killer?? or use his superior
size to overpowere the smaller man?? or is this a plothole that we are
not supposed to think about?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:43:54 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin)
Message-ID: <Mjv5yiAKWnH2Ewqj@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Marcel-1.46-1007082355-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
>Changing tack slightly - isn't it great to have a series where the computer
>expert isn't a nerdy little guy in glasses? Our computer expert is a ruthless
>bastard in black leather. Yea!
The black leather takes a while to appear, though...
(Where *did* I leave the costume-by-episode file...)
--
Julia Jones
"One of the most basic rules for survival on any planet is never to upset
someone wearing black leather" - Terry Pratchett, _The Last Continent_
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:44:14 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Guttering
Message-ID: <XsWPhsAuOoH2EwYo@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <19981007230935.14392.qmail@hotmail.com>, Joanne MacQueen
<j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes
>Julia says:
>>I adore Avon, but one of the reasons I adore him is that he's a
>>vicious little bastard
>
>Thankyou, Julia. I think even the most starry-eyed Avon fanciers take
>that on board quite early. Not that the twelve-year-old me was at all
>starry-eyed about the character - I would have agreed with that comment
>even then.
>
Ermm.. some of them don't. As I can testify, having been denounced on
this very list as an obvious Avon-hater who was unfairly bashing a truly
wonderful person, because I dared to suggest that the man had his
faults. Which doubtless amused the longer term members of the list who'd
had to put up with my disgusting drooling. (Anyone remember the socks
and red leather thread? :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 17:06:43 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re Double Standards
Message-Id: <199810092202.RAA10125@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jackie wrote:
>So why didn`t he try to injure the man in Killer?? or use his superior
>size to overpowere the smaller man??
Um, he forgot that he could just wallop them a bit?
>or is this a plothole that we are not supposed to think about?
Sssshhhhh.....
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:19:42 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
Message-ID: <f092122c.361ea81e@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Lot's of wonkiness here, so I better catch up on what e-mail I haven't already
lost. :) I do hope to get my e-mail woes permanently straightened out next
week (with hopes those aren't famous last words). Anyhow, the above subject
heading (started by Joanne, I think) seemed most appropriate for my
compilation post.
Joanne wrote:
> <sigh> Not at all. I don't have to be persuaded that Tarrant is far more
> reliable.
Actually I was my usual obtuse self. What I had been trying to say was if you
put yourself in Tarrant's shoes, you can better understand why he lost
patience with Vila at times. At least I'd lose patience with Vila, but then
I'm not known to be the world's most patient person (or so my husband and
children tell me).
> Not a rational reason for
> disliking anything, I know, but one Vila would be happy with <smile>
He would definitely appreciate it. I remember how desolate the poor dear was
in SAND, thinking no one cared about him. All of our rebels could have used a
great deal more affection in their lives. <sniff>
> Talent? Well, I suppose so, but I think there's a very blurred line
> between talent and instinct where Soolin's survival is concerned. It
> seems to me that it's part of what makes her dangerous and, therefore,
> not wholly divorced from that. Am I making sense? What I think I'm
> trying to say is that Soolin is useful for as long as she's able to use
> a gun better than the others and I can't see anything else apart from
> that to extend that usefulness.
I'm forgetting your earlier post (and I've lost it with other mail :( ). I
can't remember what other talents/skills you assigned to the others. If we
only consider their primary talents, all of them could be superfluous at
times. Put them in a primitive environment without locked doors, spaceship,
computers, and technology and what use were Vila, Tarrant, and Avon? Let's
hope at least one of them had boy scout training. :)
Now that provokes a question: the general assumption seems to be that Dayna
would have the best primitive skills of the lot (probably because we see her
with a bow and arrow), but I wonder those skills extended as far as fanfic
(including my own) often suggests (such as giving her tracking ability).
Could she rub sticks together to build a fire?
Judith P wrote:
> I kill Avon the most often becuase I like him the most. Being
> killed in one of my stories is a compliment <grin>. (The question is, would
> the
> Godmother thank me if I killed Tarrant?)
I don't think so. However, a few non-permanent, non-fatal, non-uglifying
injuries are considered to be in good taste. ;-)
Jenni, congrats on the house!
Steve, Happy birthday at Page's this weekend!
Fifi wrote:
> This could hardly be described as endearing behaviour
> especially as (and this is a guess) most Tarrant fans would say that their
> favourite character pre-Powerplay is Avon. (based on my own opinion - feel
> free to flame me!) Certainly this is true for myself and I would even go
as
> far to say that I like them both equally.
This is quite acceptable by TN standards. I'm a bit fond of old Snout and
Snarl myself. I was exposed to Toothy and Snarl at the same time; POWERPLAY
was the first ep I saw. It was probably the Avon-Tarrant interaction that
made me an instant B7 addict.
That's all I have time for tonight.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:33:51 EDT
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
Message-ID: <369ea10.361ec78f@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-10-09 20:22:18 EDT, Carol wrote:
<< Now that provokes a question: the general assumption seems to be that Dayna
would have the best primitive skills of the lot (probably because we see her
with a bow and arrow), but I wonder those skills extended as far as fanfic
(including my own) often suggests (such as giving her tracking ability).
Could she rub sticks together to build a fire? >>
Actally, I'm not sure Dayna would necessarily have the best primitive survival
skills. She did seem to spend a lot of time outdoors on Sarran, but that's
not the same thing. Blake had lived outside the domes (but we don't know if
he remembered this part of his life) and had visited Ushton on Exbar (which
looked pretty primitive to me) as a boy. He seemed to be very comfortable in
the wilderness in "Blake" and "Trial." Also Tarrant might well have some
survival skills as most military training includes the basics. Cally seemed
to be doing OK on her own on Saurian Major as well.
Vila and Avon strike me as urban types with no scout training; they probably
wouldn't recognize poison ivy until they were up to their ears in it.
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:51:38 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <b3951464.361ed9ca@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-10-09 14:57:38 EDT, you write:
<< Avon was frequently nasty to Gan >>
Then again, Avon was pretty nasty to just about everyone at one time or
another, though it seems to me the ladies enjoyed relative immunity from his
verbal assaults.
And I think Avon had more respect for Gan than he lets on. After all, he
sacrificed a bolt hole to try and help Gan, returned to the ship to help Gan
and the others when he found out the Federation was on its way, and seemed
concerned on Pressure Point when Gan took off after Vila. And I've pointed out
before, though I can't remember the episode, where Gan and Avon are in the
background, with Avon apparantly intently showing Gan something about the
controls. Avon's not likely to waste his time trying to teach Gan something if
he didn't think Gan was worth the effort....... Deborah Rose
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:17:09 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Sins
Message-ID: <361ED1B5.2476@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Julie Horner wrote:
> Another little list game. I was trying this afternoon to fit
> each of the first season crew to one of the seven deadly
> sins.
Julie, this list is brilliant! :) It makes me want to take up sin.
> It proved really difficult as some of them qualify in
> several categories
Those are, no doubt, my favorite characters.
> While others seem to be truly without stain.
Not in the B7 Universe!
> However he is my attempt, anyone got any improvements?
no! no! this is perfect. For Season 1&2
But I do have some additions, for Season 4:
> Anger Blake Well he _is_ an angry young man - angry
> with the Federation, injustice etc.
Dayna and where did it get her?
> Pride Orac Pride to the point of arrogance in his own
> abilities (mind you who else does that
> remind you of?)
Servalan and where did it get her?
> Avarice Avon My dictionary says "greed for gain"
Dorian, too.
> Sloth Vila He has spent all his life avoiding work.
> Lust Jenna Getting difficult now, but I'm guessing
> she indulges a few lustful thoughts about
> Blake at the very least
Servalan again <snort>
> Gluttony Gan Well the poor dear must have eaten quite
> a bit to get that big.
hahahahahahahahahaha!
> Envy Cally? And I confess I really struggled at this point
oh no, you are quite correct. Cally constantly envied those of her
people who remained in telepathic contact. This envy was the wellspring
of her sadness. and where did it get her?
I'm trying to think of a sin for Soolin. Perhaps being The Golden
Goddess, she has none?
And why is murder not on the list? Surely it is most deadly of all?
Julie, I'd love to see you write a B7 story on this theme, using just
your original seven characters.
And post it to the list. ;-)
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:47:53 +1000
From: Sarah Berry <berrys@connexus.apana.org.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
Message-ID: <361EF509.5F13166E@connexus.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Carol Mc wrote about some examples of Tarrant's loyalty. I've
always thought of him as a loyal creature so I was very surprised
to (finally) listen to Sevenfold Crown and hear Steven Pacey say
Tarrant only thought of himself and had no loyalty to the crew!
It's another example (like Paul Darrow's Avon from 'Avon: A
Terrible Aspect/Prospect')of how the actors regard their
characters compared to their fans!
Best wishes, Sarah Berry.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:28:22 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1009212822-566Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Fri 09 Oct, Jackie wrote:
> Judith Proctor wrote:
>
> large amount of snipping
>
> > Avon was frequently nasty to Gan. Gan was a gentle, inoffensive anmd loyal
> > man - frequently under-rated. If I needed to have one of the crew back me
> > up in a tight corner, I'd give serious consideration to Gan. (I'm not
> > talking about who was the most attractive, witty, inteligent, etc. but who
> > I'd feel safest with. Gan - apart from when his limiter malfunctioned - was
> > protective of weaker people like Vila)
>
> Gan would be the last one you should consider as back up. As he CANNOTT
> kill (his words) he would be absolutely useless in protecting your
> back. As he proved in Killer, he was physically unable to pull the
> trigger to save himself or Jenna, much as he wanted and needed to.
Most situations don't require killing force. I can think of one recent
occasion where I was walking through a city centre late at night with another
women. The pubs had loads of people spilling out onto the pavements and I felt
distinctly nervous. I think we were both glad that we had a Gan type male (ie.
large, but not aggressive) with us. An ability to kill would have been totally
irrelevent in such a situation.
>
> I do agree that he was a gentle giant, and was very loyal, and
> frequently underated. He could intimidate people just by his sheer size
> (shame on the guard in Spacefall for not having read up on the prisoners
> in his charge, so did not know that Gan couldn`t kill him!!)
In fact, I've never been in a situation where I needed someone who can kill.
However, in the course of my life I've had many a reason to appreciate men who
will carry heavy bags, be polite and considerate, not make a pass at me when I'm
in a vulnerable situation, who will stand by me when I have difficulties and who
can look intimidating on occasion.
That's why I appreciate Gan. He doesn't hit high on my sex-appeal score, but
he's a man I know I'd get on with because he's basically a gentleman where woman
are concerned. (Think of his attitude towards Avalon)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:47:16 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re:Double Standards
Message-ID: <361F2D24.7A63@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Judith Proctor wrote:
>
large amount of snipping (again)
>
> Most situations don't require killing force. I can think of one recent
> occasion where I was walking through a city centre late at night with another
> women. The pubs had loads of people spilling out onto the pavements and I felt
> distinctly nervous. I think we were both glad that we had a Gan type male (ie.
> large, but not aggressive) with us. An ability to kill would have been totally
> irrelevent in such a situation.
>
> In fact, I've never been in a situation where I needed someone who can kill.
> However, in the course of my life I've had many a reason to appreciate men who
> will carry heavy bags, be polite and considerate, not make a pass at me when I'm
> in a vulnerable situation, who will stand by me when I have difficulties and who
> can look intimidating on occasion.
Of course, faced with a couple of drunken louts, intent on making
trouble, your "protector" would be at a disadvantage, as you would be in
no condition to back him up if the occaision arose. A "two on one"
fracas will result in the "one" being the loser - both "the two" and
"the one" will know this.
>
> That's why I appreciate Gan. He doesn't hit high on my sex-appeal score, but
> he's a man I know I'd get on with because he's basically a gentleman where woman
> are concerned. (Think of his attitude towards Avalon)
Right you are. In OUR real life a man with the physical presence of
David Jackson will indeed stop a lot of hassle from *most* drunken
louts. Other types of drunken louts will *try it on* simply because he
is so huge ( I read a reminising anecdote in another fandom, where the
drunk picked on the big guy, just because he was "the big guy". You
don`t get much bigger than 6ft 11).
I still maintain my stance that in the Blakes` 7 universe, Gan would be
the last person you should chose to watch your back. That does not
detract from his gentlemanly demeaner where women are concerned.
Even tho he had the limiter fitted, I don`t think he comes across as a
normally violent person. I say that because if that were the case, he`d
be continually battling the implant (like he tried to do in Killer). I
think the implant was a spiteful experiment by the Federation.
Of course it could be said that by the time *we* meet him he could have
been conditioned into gentleness by the implant. But I think that by
the very life the crew lead on the Liberator, any naturally violent
tendencies would have resurfaced many times (I`m ignoring his reaction
under restraint in Breakdown as that was caused by the limiter
malfunctioning - even though he did try to kill Avon!)
Bye for now
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:11:38 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Videos
Message-ID: <361F32D9.B168425@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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Julie Horner said: "Last night we were watching our newly acquired video
of Trial/Killer.."
You mean you watch them! I watch the old set, the new ones I just put on
my window sill and look at them.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
"Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell"
Star Wars
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:25:41 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <19981010102542.15697.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Avon isn't the appeasement type. Can anyone remember Avon ever
>saying sorry for anything he'd done? (even if it was his fault)
I can't, certainly. There's a very interesting exchange in "Trial",
along the lines of (quoting from memory here)
JENNA: What would you know about guilt.
AVON: Only what I've read.
I would have approved of that comment, if I didn't know Avon was deadly
serious.
-- Rob
PS. "Trial" is one of the best episodes I've seen so far. I
particularly liked the final scene between Travis and, er, Parr, I think
his name was.
It's also good to see Brian Croucher start to come into character --
Stephen Grief had a very imposing presence, but I think Croucher might
have been a better man to bring out our sympathy for Travis.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:30:13 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avengers
Message-ID: <361F3733.44E3430@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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Cheryl Marks emailed me privately asking about which Avengers tape
Gareth Thomas is on. I've been trying to reply to her, but keep
bouncing. As she was responding initially to something on this list, she
I presume must be here, so here's the reply:
"Hi Cheryl. The episode is called Murdersville and it is on tape four of
six in The M-Appeal collection. It has been released before on an
Avengers video, but I don't know which."
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
"Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell"
Star Wars
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:37:06 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <19981010103706.29022.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Gan would be the last one you should consider as back up. As he
>CANNOTT kill (his words) he would be absolutely useless in
>protecting your back. As he proved in Killer, he was physically
>unable to pull the trigger to save himself or Jenna, much as he
>wanted and needed to.
Do you mean "Time Squad"?
-- Rob
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:00:02 +0100 (BST)
From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray)
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Double Standards
Message-Id: <199810101100.MAA26521@dux1.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jackie said that the guard in 'Space Fall' whose hand Gan threatened
to remove should have known that he wasn't able to kill, due to his limiter.
But the problem is that Gan _only_ threatened to take his hand off; he
didn't threaten to kill him. Remember that the limiter only stops him
_killing_ anyone. It seems to me that Gan can inflict as much injury as
possible on someone as long as it is not fatal. Of course, this leaves the
problem of him causing an injury that eventually leads to death. How can the
limiter prevent that?
Murray Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:13:03 +0100 (BST)
From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray)
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re Double Standards
Message-Id: <199810101113.MAA29314@dux1.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Lisa,
You have put your finger on the nub of the problem about Gan's
limiter. How could it decide that Gan was going to _actually kill someone_,
as distinct from beating them into a bloody pulp? Let us say, for example,
that Gan wants to beat someone up. The limiter thinks this is fine; it lets
him do so; but the person winds up dead. What can the limiter do? The person
can't be brought back to life. A possible solution would be for the limiter
to admit that it failed and self-destruct (like the inconsistent computers
in the original 'Star Trek' series, thus killing Gan.
Murray Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:39:47 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re Double Standards
Message-ID: <361F4783.24F0@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Rob Clother wrote:
>
> Do you mean "Time Squad"?
>
errrrm ...... yes. I looked up something else in Killer, and the
episode name stuck in my brain despite later looking up on Time Squad.
Referred to Killer instead of Time Squad in a mumber of posts regarding
this subject, you are the first to point out my error. ooops!
Sorry everyone
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:48:22 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re Double Standards
Message-ID: <361F4986.7B07@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Murray wrote:
>
> Jackie said that the guard in 'Space Fall' whose hand Gan threatened
> to remove should have known that he wasn't able to kill, due to his limiter.
> But the problem is that Gan _only_ threatened to take his hand off; he
> didn't threaten to kill him. Remember that the limiter only stops him
> _killing_ anyone. It seems to me that Gan can inflict as much injury as
> possible on someone as long as it is not fatal. Of course, this leaves the
> problem of him causing an injury that eventually leads to death. How can the
> limiter prevent that?
I don`t think the the limiter can be that picky. I think that the guard
just hadn`t done his homework properly on the prisoners. Or believed
that as suppressants were fed to the prisoners as a matter of course he
didn`t think he could be in any danger from them. Came as rather a
shock to find not all of them were drugged, and so kinda panicked when
Gan threatened him.
Jackie
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:08:29 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards
Message-ID: <d252a212.361f6a5d@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Deborah writes:
> I think Vila stuck with Tarrant only because by now he'd lost Doran, and
> didn't want to be alone.
But Doran shows up later and Vila makes no moves to head out with Doran at
that point. Nor does he express regret when Doran gets killed. I think Doran
had lost a lot of appeal by then. Vila had come to realize Doran was more
than a bit unstable and that his decision to throw his lot in with Doran was
precipitous.
> Luckily, he took advantage of that luck and managed to
> muddle something out of the situation.
More than muddle. As I said, he had a uniform, gun, map and plan.
> I will award
> points to Tarrant for loyalty, courage, and fast thinking, but not for
> military genius in this one.
I'm not claiming Tarrant was a military genius in MOLOCH. But he wasn't a
complete and total muddler either. His ability to think on his feet was
sufficiently documented to justify his confidence in going down to the planet
to obtain information. And he was capable of gathering information and using
it to formulate plans. His instinct and ability combined to make him a
formidable opponent, mistakes in KAIROS not withstanding. As I've mentioned
about KAIROS before, Tarrant had the misfortune to be going against someone
who knew him inside and out, which gave Jarvik a very big advantage. I'm not
saying Tarrant didn't make his share of mistakes in HARVEST (he presumed too
much based on his past experience with the shuttle), but he also had the deck
stacked against him. And Avon was outmaneuvered twice in that one as well
(the men in the kairopan containers; Servalan's sending them to Kairos). All
of them made mistakes at times. All of them had moments of sheer brilliance.
Something else in regard to HARVEST, Tarrant's mistakes and all, Avon still
has enough confidence in him to assign Tarrant the task of bluffing Servalan
at the end.
Nicola, good luck with the move. I can relate to your box obsession: been
there, done that. Especially with mailing a lot of packages within fandom,
I've become something of a box connoisseur. It can be difficult to resist
tasty discarded boxes that I see in supermarkets and the like. "That would be
a perfect box for mailing zines/tapes/etc" runs through my head.
Iain wrote:
> What benefits would these be exactly? Oh sure, they would risk their necks
> to get him out of trouble - but they're the reason he's in the trouble in
> the first place.
He also has a roof over his head, clothes, food. I have to believe Vila
thought the benefits of life with the rebels outweighed the risks. Else why
didn't he leave? Which comes back to my thought that if he was going to
accept the benefits, he should also accept the accompanying responsibilities.
> Avon isn't the appeasement type. Can anyone remember Avon ever saying sorry
> for
> anything he'd done? (even if it was his fault)
I can recall two incidents that I rather like. One is an example of Avon's
instinctive politeness (someone taught this boy manners when he was growing
up). The other while not an outright apology was certainly an acceptance of
culpability.
First incident is from HARVEST. The crew is intent on the final approach to
Kairos and preparations for taking the shuttle; Avon is playing with his rock.
There is a minor explosion of sorts that distracts his shipmates. He
immediately says "Sorry."
The second incident is the end of TERMINAL. The others call Avon over to the
screen to look at Liberator. He says: "She won. We-- I let her take the
Liberator." That quick switch from we to I is where I see that Avon is
accepting responsibility and apologizing to the others for his mistake.
Deborah wrote:
> And I think Avon had more respect for Gan than he lets on. After all, he
> sacrificed a bolt hole to try and help Gan, returned to the ship to help
Gan
> and the others when he found out the Federation was on its way, and seemed
> concerned on Pressure Point when Gan took off after Vila.
I'd agree that Avon was fonder of Gan than he was willing to admit, as he was
fonder of all of his shipmates. But what I find curious is that you have no
problem interpreting Avon's actions in the best light. (One might be less
charitable and suggest Avon came back to Liberator in BREAKDOWN because he
didn't think it would be safe on XK72 when there were folks around who were so
pro-Federation.) But you really seem to have trouble believing that Tarrant
might care for Vila as much as for the mission in MOLOCH. This despite the
fact that Vila and Tarrant share more moments of easy camaraderie and concern
for each other than we ever see between Avon and Gan.
Sarah Berry wrote:
> I've
> always thought of him as a loyal creature so I was very surprised
> to (finally) listen to Sevenfold Crown and hear Steven Pacey say
> Tarrant only thought of himself and had no loyalty to the crew!
> It's another example (like Paul Darrow's Avon from 'Avon: A
> Terrible Aspect/Prospect')of how the actors regard their
> characters compared to their fans!
Isn't that the truth? One presumes Steven had already read the Sevenfold
Crown script when he made that comment, and there are two incidents of
Tarrant's loyalty in that "episode"! Tarrant is in favor of rescuing Vila, no
matter the price. And he puts himself in bodily harm getting in between Avon
and the thing he believes to be an Avon android.
Carol Mc
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #257
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