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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 260
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
[B7L] Boxes (was Double Standards)
[B7L] Anyone interested in tapes?
[B7L] timelash
Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
[B7L] Enararre
Re: [B7L] shuttle
[B7L] Enararre
Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
[B7L] BBC choice
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:01:33 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Message-ID: <31172e95.362243fd@aol.com>
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Rob wrote:
> The envy is, as an earlier poster pointed out, showcased in "Warlord" --
> she envies those who've had a better life than her, and this is what
> drove her to bring Zeeona back to the Xenon Base. This is an example of
> someone acting explicitly to help the object of their envy. That, in
> case anyone ever asks me, sums up the difference between jealousy and
> envy.
This is very interesting. As I understand what you are saying, you think envy
can be present without ill feelings. With, in fact, feelings of good will.
Whereas jealousy implies resentment. Or is it that you think Soolin can both
resent Zeeona's good fortune and still be willing to rise above that to help
her?
> Carol (and others who followed the earlier thread), while watching the
> UK video realeases, I think I saw someone who might just possibly make a
> realistic partner for Soolin: Carnell, from the episode "Weapon". I
> have reasons, but I won't elaborate on them here.
Rob, you mustn't be on Space-City. Carnell, Del Grant and Deeta Tarrant have
been proposed as partners for Soolin. I'm still pondering all of those. I
can see where Carnell and Soolin would respect each other, which would make
him a positive partner for her, but I'm not sure the pairing has potential for
genuine affection. Whereas with Grant and Deeta, I can see potential for
respect, companionship and affection. I'd like to hope that Soolin hasn't
completely lost the capacity to love. Though wishing her a romantic
entanglement might not be doing her any favors. <g>
> Because Soolin was such an ambiguous character, she is one of the best
> candidates for a major figure in fan fiction. An interpretation of her
> character and her motives involves as much creation as analysis.
But there's still a basis in canon that has to be adhered to. I've read some
expansions on Soolin's character that have really worked for me and others
that left me saying "no way."
> Perhaps, instead of wasting my time posting to the list for the next few
> months, I'll waste my time writing a post-GP (or a GP-never-happened)
> story instead -- it'll certainly be a diversion from my thesis, anyway.
Please do write the PGP! Though I wouldn't call your time on the list wasted,
and you'd be missed. Are you sure you can't just give up sleep and do all
three: thesis, list, and story. ;-)
Avon's behavior on the shuttle over in ORBIT:
> Do you think he would have tossed Blake off the shuttle? Or Del Grant?
Yep. About the only one I'd exempt from his survival instincts is Anna Grant
(prior to his discovering that she was using him). Avon was often willing to
risk his life for his shipmates; but he wasn't willing to throw it away for
his shipmates. Though that might have changed after ORBIT. He seemed a lot
less willing to view his shipmates as more expendable than himself after that
incident. I suspect he got to thinking that living with that degree of guilt
might be worse than death.
> On the other hand, it would be sad if no one ever said anything
> provocative.
Yes, but I'd hope the provocation was motivated by a desire to expand on a
topic or initiate a discussion. There are people who yell "fire" simply
because they enjoy having the power to make others jump. I can't claim to
know what motivates anyone who posts on the list; I hope we are above yelling
"fire."
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:37:35 EDT
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Message-ID: <9dcc2e5d.3622769f@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-10-11 16:49:02 EDT, Alison wrote:
<< Not sure about this, it's just a train of thought. What do others
think? Does Soolin ever admire anyone? Does Travis envy anyone? >>
I think Soolin was learning to care about and admire her crewmates aboard the
Scorpio. She certainly stayed with them longer than I would expect from
someone who was merely out for her own survival. As for Travis, didn't he
envy anyone who was whole and undamaged? I thought the reason he hated Blake
so much was that he held Blake responsible for his mutilation. Also, it
seemed to me that he had a consuming envy of anyone who wasn't on Servalan's
leash.
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:45:51 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Boxes (was Double Standards)
Message-Id: <l03130300b2480a69382c@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Carol Mc said:
>>Nicola, good luck with the move.
Thanks! It's coming along, I think the end of the packing is in sight :)
And Julia added:
>Sounds just like me for several weeks about a year ago, when I had to
>move the office and lab from one end of the site to the other, for
>reasons which seem to have more to do with politics than actual need. My
>officemate and I became expert at grabbing likely looking boxes for
>storing all our junk pre-, during and post-move.
I've shifted from one house to another about every two years for the last
decade, so I'm getting good at finding sources of cartons. The recycling
bin behind the supermarket is usually a rich vein. We also have a system
here where folks with boxes they don't want leave them outside their lab
door, and they get collected and taken to the recycling bin. If I don't get
there first.... The boxes that isotope came in were excellent, until they
stopped shipping it on dry ice. I still have several.
But my best windfall was a collection of about 40 photocopier paper boxes
that our prac books came from the printers in. Just the right size for my
partner's enormous collection of books :)
I went to visit a penguin sanctuary last weekend - we were able to watch
the birds come up out of the sea and waddle to their nests. One little
fellow picked up a piece of straw in his beak as he headed for the nest -
we were told that he and his mate were still building. Reminded me of me
collecting boxes, except that I'm tearing down, not building up.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie mailto:nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
22 sleeps!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:41:26 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Space City <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Anyone interested in tapes?
Message-ID: <199810121841_MC2-5C6D-C51@compuserve.com>
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Due to a misunderstanding I have ended up with duplicate copies of the Fab
Films re-release of Shadow/Weapon and Horizon/Pressure Point. Would anyone
be interested in taking them off my hands? They cost me 10 pounds 99 pence
each (and are obviously in, er, whichever the UK video format is).
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:35:15 GMT
From: Roger the Shrubber <powerplay@cheerful.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] timelash
Message-Id: <199810131335.NAA12278@axis.jeack.com.au>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Aussie/ Melbourne people can find Timelash at Target for $24-95.
Paul Darrow is on the cover.
___________________________________
from Darren r ..... Comments are welcome !
powerplay@cheerful.com
____________________________________
The effective way to defang the oppressors is to persuade
them they are ignorant of the good.
______________________________________
The university's acquiescence in the interference with its primary
responsibility of providing educational opportunity to those capable
of education should be a heavy burden on its collective conscience.
________________________________________
________________________________________
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634
Anxiety & Panic
_________________________________________
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634/powerplay.html
Blake's 7 FAQ & free screen savers
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:46:57 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1012204657-9eeRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 12 Oct, Mac4781@aol.com wrote:
>> Avon's behavior on the shuttle over in ORBIT: Do you think he would have
>> tossed Blake off the shuttle? Or Del Grant?
>
> Yep. About the only one I'd exempt from his survival instincts is Anna Grant
> (prior to his discovering that she was using him). Avon was often willing to
> risk his life for his shipmates; but he wasn't willing to throw it away for
> his shipmates. Though that might have changed after ORBIT. He seemed a lot
> less willing to view his shipmates as more expendable than himself after that
> incident. I suspect he got to thinking that living with that degree of guilt
> might be worse than death.
>
I disagree <smile>. He was prepared to risk his life in what he expected to be
a trap in 'Terminal' for Blake. I think he might well have been unable to toss
Blake off that shuttle. The interesting question (to which I can't quite decide
my answer) is whether Blake would have offered to jump in order to save Avon. I
think he probably would have, but a lot would depend on the exact circumstances.
Darn it, I can think of long lists of reasons for both of them both ways, but
I'm just too shattered to type.
I think Avon would have done it for Del Grant (at least pre-Rumours at any rate)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:49:18 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Message-Id: <E0zT0AW-0002Sd-00@post.mail.demon.net>
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Me, then Tiger M
> << Not sure about this, it's just a train of thought. What do others
> think? Does Soolin ever admire anyone? Does Travis envy anyone? >>
>
> I think Soolin was learning to care about and admire her crewmates aboard
the
> Scorpio. She certainly stayed with them longer than I would expect from
> someone who was merely out for her own survival.
Care for, yes. But admire? Or envy? I think Soolin's pride is very
important to her. She would give care, but she wouldn't ask for care
herself. And allowing herself to envy another person's childhood or love
affair would violate that pride. This is just my impression.
> As for Travis, didn't he
> envy anyone who was whole and undamaged?
Yes, I think this is right. I don't really like the sort of plot device
which makes a disabled person into a villain, because they are supposedly
resentful of the physically able (like Richard III for example), which is
why I probably discounted it in thinking about Travis.
In terms of realism I think it is quite plausible that Travis would hate
Blake because (Travis felt) he was responsible for his injuries. It's the
rest of it that seems implausible to me. In other words - I think Tiger is
right about how Travis is written, but I don't think the scripts are that
good on this particular point about disability.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:50:00 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Message-ID: <fe7b0c79.36233e68@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Judith wrote:
> I disagree <smile>. He was prepared to risk his life in what he expected to
> be
> a trap in 'Terminal' for Blake.
"Risk" being the operative word. Avon was willing to risk his life for all of
his shipmates.
> I think he might well have been unable to
> toss Blake off that shuttle.
Why wouldn't he have been able to toss Blake if he was willing to toss Vila?
Avon was able to shoot Blake in BLAKE. There was no indication that Blake's
presence caused Avon's survival instincts to diminish. Tossing Blake might
even be easier for Avon. Vila didn't want to be on the shuttle. He was there
because Avon ordered him on the mission. If it were Blake and Avon, it would
more likely be Blake who got them into it, giving Avon a much less conscience-
pricking reason to put himself first.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:50:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Enararre
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1013165009-0e8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
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Richard brought back a batch of zines from Australia.
This means that Enararre 8 is back in stock and I have copies of Enararre 9 as
well.
A combination of saving the airmail postage, and the dreadful Australian
exchange rate (dreadful if you're an Australian that is) means that I'm able to
drop the price of Enarrare 8 by nearly 4 pounds!
Enararre 8 is about 50% Blake's 7, but contains an excellent Sapphire and Steel
story as well as stories from UFO, Space 1999 and the Tomorrow People. You're
getting 180 double column pages with some really lovely artwork that isn't
included in that page count.
The Blake's 7 stories are excellent ones. No one who has read it will forget
Marie Logan's 'The Gate Beyond Winter'. There is also Ana Dorfstad with 'The
Devil's Loom'.
These two stories alone are worth the price of the zine. �7.80 UK, �10 Eur, �13
or USA $22 cash
Enararre 9 has three B7 stories: Hannah Brierly (1page) Sue Spencer (6 pages)
and Andrew Williams (4 pages). There also stories from Sapphire and Steel, a 45
page X-Files story and stories form Babylon 5, Dr Who and UFO. 123 pages in
all.
UK �7, Eur �8, USA �9.60 or $17 cash
Both zines are comb bound. Enararre 9 has a colour cover (Avon, Scully and
Straker).
Australians can buy these zines from Parliament of Dreams, PO Box 492, Corinda Q
4075, Australia
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:22:17 +0100
From: "Jennifer Beavan" <J.Beavan@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] shuttle
Message-Id: <E0zT9FI-0003Na-00@tantalum>
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> Avon's behavior on the shuttle over in ORBIT:
> > Do you think he would have tossed Blake off the shuttle? Or Del Grant?
>
> Yep. About the only one I'd exempt from his survival instincts is Anna
Grant
> (prior to his discovering that she was using him). Avon was often
willing to
> risk his life for his shipmates; but he wasn't willing to throw it away
for
> his shipmates.
For practical rather than emotional reasons I'd say that Vila was the ONLY
one Avon would have spaced. I think it was Vila's running that triggered
Avon's hunter/prey reflex.
I reckon any of the other 2 crews would have stayed and faced it out. On
the premise that Avon would have hesitated about shooting immediately I
think they could have argued him out of it. Once Blake had said , fine, I'm
not moving, shoot me here and then drag my 200lbs dead weight to the
airlock, round corners and over steps, I think Avon would have got his
brain back in gear!
Jennifer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:39:46 EDT
From: SuzanThoms@aol.com
To: Space-city@world.std.com
Cc: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Enararre
Message-ID: <ccd4073a.36239e72@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>Judith wrote:
>Enararre 9 has a colour cover (Avon, Scully and Straker).
Avon and Straker on the same cover is worth the price alone. Is this a gen or
slash zine?
Thanks, Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:48:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Seven Vices
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1013184826-063Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Tue 13 Oct, Mac4781@aol.com wrote:
> Judith wrote:
>
> > I disagree <smile>. He was prepared to risk his life in what he expected
> > to be a trap in 'Terminal' for Blake.
>
> "Risk" being the operative word. Avon was willing to risk his life for all of
> his shipmates.
He took bigger risks for Blake then anyone else. 'Terminal' is the only case of
him heading into something he expected to be a trap.
>
> > I think he might well have been unable to
> > toss Blake off that shuttle.
>
> Why wouldn't he have been able to toss Blake if he was willing to toss Vila?
> Avon was able to shoot Blake in BLAKE.
He was able to shot him in 'Blake' because he thought he had been betrayed.
That was not the normal relationship between them.
Go and watch some first season episodes like 'The Web'. That gives a far better
idea of the relationship. The classic scene for me is when Avon (who had stated
that he didn't give a damn about the Decimas if it was a choice between them and
the Liberator) refuses to hand over the power cells. It's Blake who cracks,
even though Avon is the one threatened.
It's also an epiaode where Avon is given to doing things like pushing Blake out
of the way of explosions.
BLAKE: Listen, these's a problem. If we let them have those,
they'll use them to wipe out an entire race of creatures,
people here.
AVON: If it concerns you, don't give them the cells.
BLAKE: No, there's more. They've got a carrier beam which
projects a fungicide which'll clear a way through the web
for us. It doesn't work without this power.
AVON: Ah well, if it's between the creatures and us there's no
argument. Even your irrational conscience should be able
to cope with that. (Pause) What do you want to do?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
NOVARA: (To Avon) Put your weapon down. (Avon looks at Blake) Do
it! (To Blake) You. Now, the cells.
AVON: I didn't bring them.
GEELA: (Touches Avon's hand with her weapon. She releases his
hand.) Minimum power. A full charge would cut you in
half.
NOVARA: Understand. Your lives are totally unimportant to us.
BLAKE: All right.
Blake retrieves the energy cells.
> There was no indication that Blake's presence caused Avon's survival instincts
> to diminish.
It did. Consider the risks he took in episodes like 'pressure Point'. He knew
Blake was holding out on them, but he still went.
> Tossing Blake might even be easier for Avon. Vila didn't want to be on the
> shuttle. He was there because Avon ordered him on the mission. If it were
> Blake and Avon, it would more likely be Blake who got them into it, giving
> Avon a much less conscience- pricking reason to put himself first.
Not necessarily. Avon was quite capable of coming up with bad ideas on his own.
Mind you, he did tend more towards being sacrificial when he felt guilty.
'Hostage' another episode where he's taking risks on Blake's behalf, is when
Avon is well aware that much of the danger is of his own making.
Avon is also protective of Blake when he isn't feeling guilty though. That's
what makes the relationship so fascinating. He can be slagging Blake off at the
same time he's doing something to help him. Pressure Point is a good example
where Avon puts his arms round Blake while telling him that there's nothing
there in the control room.
Trial is another classic. He virtually talks the entire crew into being willing
to abandon Blake, then goes and rescues him. If he had ever wanted Liberator
for his own, he could have taken it in that episode and none of te other crew
members would have stopped him.
With Avon and Blake, nothing is ever quite as it seems. Someday, I'm going to
watch the episodes with the sound turned off and see how I view them all without
hearing Avon's comments. The body language is very interesting.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:15:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] BBC choice
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1013191504-6d1Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I'm thinking that some of us ought to try and make it to this do, if only to
show that there is still support for Blake's 7. If only he hadn't chosen such
an out of the way place and on a Monday to boot.
I'm trying to work out if I can make it and wondered if anyone would be
interested in transport sharing? Either hitting a station at roughly the same
time and sharing the cost of a taxi (Pevensey and Eastbourne are the closest
stations - with Pevensey being the closest) of being able to offer a lift
(sharing petrol costs) from the Dorset area.
Judith
Dear Blake's 7 fans....
An Invitation from the BBC.
BBC Choice, the BBC's new digital channel is making a theme night for next
January called 'Over the Moon'.
It's essentially a television theme night about our changing attitudes to
space and space travel. We will be showing programmes such as; 'The Late
Show: Whatever Happened to the Space Age?'; 'Horizon: MIR Mortals'; and
others which show how the 'space age' influenced mainstream and popular
culture: such as 'Louis Theroux's UFOlogists' and 'Fly me to the Moon' .
We'll also be devoting one hour of the night to science fiction - based
around an episode of Blake's 7.
The theme night will be presented by Patrick Moore from a location in Sussex
called Herstmonceux: a C16th castle with a major working observatory.
In keeping with the informal tone of the theme we would like to introduce
the Blake's 7 episode(we're still deciding which one to show) in a way that
will draw-in viewers who are unfamiliar with it or would not normally watch
it. Since nothing generates enthusiasm as much as the enthusiasm of others,
we would very much like to involve some of the fans in this introduction.
We will be filming on 30th of November and would welcome a response from
Blake's 7 fans as to whether some of you might be able to attend and
participate. The feature could take the form of anything from a discussion
with Patrick Moore about Blake's 7 and Sci fi - to enacting scenes from
Blake's 7 Fan Fiction or introducing memorabilia / collections associated
with the series. It should be a fun day out at a great location and a chance
for some of you to get together.
I would really welcome any response from you all - to let me know whether
you would like to attend on the day.
I can be reached by email at: ralph.lee@bbc.co.uk
Please contact me and let me know where I can reach you by telephone.
Many thanks
Ralph Lee
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #260
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