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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 283
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Vila's Past
Re: [B7L] Blake & diversity
[B7L] Babylon 5
Re: [B7L] Vila's Past
Re: [B7L] Blake & diversity
Re: [B7L] Blake & diversity
[B7L] Blake & Diversity
[B7L] Re: Blake and diversity
[B7L] Sevenfold Crown tape
[B7L] Neil Faulkner
Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor
[B7L] Down and Safe
[B7L] Clive James
Re: [B7L] Down and Safe
Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor
Re: [B7L] Vila's Past
[B7L] Federation Justice
------------------------------
Date: 11 Nov 98 17:28:39 America/Fort_Wayne
From: Allison Polise <allisonpolise@usa.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Vila's Past
Message-ID: <19981111172840.20832.qmail@www0k.netaddress.usa.net>
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What do we know about Vila's past? He's a very good thief. In fact, I can't
think of a lock that stopped him(I'm probably wrong). He said that he had
been to the psychotherapists four times. He also seemed to not have memory
problems. What did he do to be sent to a prison planet? Avon and Blake seem
to get all the attention, but the whole crew of the Liberator was unique one
way or another.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:55:06 -0800
From: "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
"Allison Polise" <allisonpolise@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake & diversity
Message-Id: <199811111751.JAA05295@mercury.dnai.com>
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Allison Polise <allisonpolise@usa.net> wrote:
> Blake does seem to
> manipulate people often, but he usually lets them know what they are in
for.
> Avon also seems to manipulate people, but he seems less careful of
> consequences. All in all, I would rather be under Blake's command than
> Avon's. Even at the end, Blake seemed a little more careful than Avon.
Well, yes. Which brings us back to the question, "is Avon mad (or a bit
mad) in season 4?" I don't think we came to a satisfying answer in the
previous discussion, but on rewatching the whole of B7, I think he was--or
gave a convincing imitation. (Actor's decision? Directors'? Built into the
script? Only in my mind?) This _should_ be easier to answer than the same
question asked of Hamlet.
--Ann Basart
abasart@dnai.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:05:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Babylon 5
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1111140511-354Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I notice channel 4 are showing Babylon 5 again. The first episode 'Midnight on
the Firing Line' is on this Sunday, so maybe they're going to do a rerun of the
whole series.
If you missed it the first time round, it's well worth catching, though at that
hour of night you'd proabably tape it and watch it later.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:17:33 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's Past
Message-ID: <b9ee4e20.3649e2cd@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-11-11 12:36:13 EST, Allison wrote:
<< What do we know about Vila's past? He's a very good thief. In fact, I
can't
think of a lock that stopped him(I'm probably wrong). He said that he had
been to the psychotherapists four times. He also seemed to not have memory
problems. What did he do to be sent to a prison planet? Avon and Blake seem
to get all the attention, but the whole crew of the Liberator was unique one
way or another.
>>
We know that Vila has been in and out of prison since he was fourteen (or
fifteen) and probably juvenile wards before that. The lock on the door to the
hanger in =Power= stopped him, but that's the only one I can think of.
Regarding psychotherapy, he said in either =TWB= or =Spacefall= that he had
had his head adjusted by the best in the business but it wouldn't stay
adjusted. I think this is why he was sent to Cygnus Alpha; he was an
incorrigible thief. Perhaps the Federation shipped all convicts to prison
planets to get them off Earth, or maybe they had some kind of "three strikes
and you're out" rule. They were tired of messing with him, it wasn't doing
any good, so they shipped him off. Personally, I wonder what such a young kid
as Nova did to get sent to Cygnus Alpha for life. (I may be mistaken, but
didn't they say somewhere that all the prisoners on the London were lifers?)
About a month or two ago, there was an extended discussion about Tarrant and
Vila, and another concerning Soolin, so although Avon and Blake get a lot of
attention, I wouldn't say they get it all. We members of the Tarrant Nostra
are always willing to discuss our favorite pilot. Vila has numerous fans, as
do Cally, Jenna, Dayna and Gan (perhaps the most neglected crew member), and
even Travis and Servalan. I agree that every crew member was unique and
interesting; that's part of why I like the show so much :-)
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:49:39 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake & diversity
Message-Id: <E0zdh9O-00031i-00@post.mail.demon.net>
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Ann Basart said -
> Well, yes. Which brings us back to the question, "is Avon mad (or a bit
> mad) in season 4?" I don't think we came to a satisfying answer in the
> previous discussion, but on rewatching the whole of B7, I think he
was--or
> gave a convincing imitation. (Actor's decision? Directors'? Built into
the
> script? Only in my mind?) This _should_ be easier to answer than the same
> question asked of Hamlet.
I can't remember who made the following contribution, but I really liked
it:
The suggestion was that due to the dynamics of the series Paul Darrow
was able to take increasing control over the way Avon behaved. He
didn't actually intend to make Avon appear mad, but rather to more fully
realise his own ideas about what Avon was actually like. As we know his
ideas about what Avon was 'really' like are quite different from most
fans'. Thus he thought he was getting to the true Avon, and we viewers
interpret it as Avon going a bit bonkers.
I think this is a fantastic explanation, and I really hope it is true. It
means that Avon's madness is a completely emergent property, not made by a
particular person, or even intended, but arising out of real life events.
IMHO the best bits of pop culture come about in this kind of fortuitous
way.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:06:48 +1100
From: "Afenech" <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake & diversity
Message-Id: <21552468138658@domain3.bigpond.com>
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> Ann Basart said -
>
> > Well, yes. Which brings us back to the question, "is Avon mad (or a
bit
> > mad) in season 4?" I don't think we came to a satisfying answer in the
> > previous discussion, but on rewatching the whole of B7, I think he
> was--or gave a convincing imitation. (Actor's decision? Directors'?
Built into
>> the script? Only in my mind?) This _should_ be easier to answer than
the >>same question asked of Hamlet.
To which Alison added :
> The suggestion was that due to the dynamics of the series Paul Darrow
> was able to take increasing control over the way Avon behaved.... and
etc
>
> I think this is a fantastic explanation, and I really hope it is true.
It
> means that Avon's madness is a completely emergent property, not made by
a particular person, or even intended, but arising out of real life
events.
> IMHO the best bits of pop culture come about in this kind of fortuitous
> way.
To which it might be of interest to add:
A friend has been listening to tapes of various conventions and reading
lots of interviews - purely for academic research - it is - really!
-smile- and being a student of performance she notes things said which we
mere fans might not recognise the significance of - anyway, she says that
Paul Darrow suggests that due to the changed dynamics of the fourth season
- new producer (one who preferred action to words) , Vila's contribution
being scaled down, Avon's confrontations with Tarrant being rather less
noticable, that he felt he had very little to play off and had to try
harder to produce drama - well - I should make clear that this is just a
version two removed from the original and may be not exactly what he said
- but it made a great deal of sense to me when I heard her talk about it
and it might be an added factor in this context??
Pat Fenech
------------------------------
Date: 11 Nov 98 22:11:59 America/Fort_Wayne
From: Allison Polise <allisonpolise@usa.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Blake & Diversity
Message-ID: <19981111221200.26625.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I think that Avon tried to do something he had no aptitude or training for,
and tried to do it for too long. He always seemed to be a perfectionist, and
never being able to do it "right" was probably horrible for him. I think the
real reason that he wanted Blake back was so he could go back to being the
computer expert without having to worry about the rest of the ship. When he
thought Blake had betrayed him, that was the last straw. He finally went
completely crackers, instead of mostly. Most of it was pure tension.
Allison
____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:40:15 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake and diversity
Message-ID: <19981112004016.11595.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Iain said:
>Blake has an instinctive understanding of people, and that's what
>makes him so effective at manipulating them (or encouraging them to >do
the right thing, if you want to put it more positively).
Yes, manipulativeness is like beauty, entirely in the eye of the
beholder. One man's manipulation (ie Avon's opinion of Blake's methods)
is another man's persuasion (Blake, though obviously not in every
circumstance).
Carol said:
>What Blake takes on instinct, Avon determines by study and
>observation. He does it with the same fervor he'd use to examine a
>scientific theory. It is very important for Avon not to be at a
>disadvantage, so he's trained himself to know this.
What if it's more the odds that he's studied, rather than the actual
circumstances? I agree that Avon doesn't care to be at disadvantage
(that's where his ego comes into it, of course! <smile>). But I think
the particular examples you chose to illustrate it could well
demonstrate a better knowledge of likelihoods than actual certainty.
Avon may have no hesitation in answering Dayna's question about Cally,
but I'm not sure it's because he feels he knows Cally very well -- more
like the probability that she continues to feel estranged from her
people, and that she has no family there anymore, so is that much more
likely to stay with our heroes than join Franton and the genestocks.
(Sounds like a really bad band name, doesn't it? <smile>)
As for Servalan, well, I don't think you'd have to know much about her
at all to realise she's dangerous <smile>, and that an association with
her of any length could seriously shorten your lifespan. Though behaving
like a courtier might be useful: Tarrant is pretty enough, and speaks
pretty enough (giving a powerful figure his or her full title(s) could
count as flattery, and very few are entirely immune to that), to be able
to gain Servalan's co-operation for at least a short time.
[We'll forget the situation down on the planet in "Sand" - I don't think
anyone would say that that situation was normal!!]
Regards
Joanne
Society, my dear, is like salt water -- good to swim in but hard to
swallow.
--Arthur Stringer
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:15:35 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown tape
Message-ID: <19981112011536.25945.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Didn't intend to post again today, but:
I've just been looking at the on-line catalogue for the ABC shop, and it
seems to say that the Sevenfold Crown tape is now available in Australia
(well, it may have been for some time, but this is the first I've
heard). Have any of my fellow Australians actually seen this in their
local ABC shop or centre? Think I might go into the city, to the QVB
branch, just to have a look (amongst other things, as Galaxy and Abbey's
bookshops are in that neck of the woods as well).
Regards
Joanne
(Time to look up some more quotations: I'm running out of them!)
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:36:42 EST
From: SuzanThoms@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Neil Faulkner
Message-ID: <6d4a8d25.364a57ca@aol.com>
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Neil Faulkner, your observations on religion in the B7 universe are
fascinating. I very much enjoyed reading your post. Thank you so much for
writing it. :)
The discussion on "religion in the B7 universe" had so degraded to a
discussion on religion in general that I had lost interest. Thank you for
bringing it back to B7. It really was a MOST enjoyable post. :)
Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:57:26 EST
From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor
Message-ID: <48573c22.364a6ab6@aol.com>
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Tiger M. wrote:
<< Avon's highest priority was himself; this can be seen in many episodes
including Gambit and Orbit. I agree that perhaps his bad temper may be a way
to protect himself emotionally, but it could also be that he just doesn't
give
a damn what others think or feel. >>
Avon certainly took pains to make everyone think he only cared about himself,
and yet there were many times he risked all to save his crew. One such
example is in Horizon, where he could have taken off and yet found himself on
the planet in a rescue attempt. I wrote a poem about this very thing a couple
of years ago. It was published in Gambit 14 and was supposed to be written,
or thought, by Avon and transcribed by me. I am going to be brave and share
it with all of you:
Time to Leave
I tried to break Horizon's grip
For it was time to go,
To sail the world within this ship,
My freedom pure and whole.
I'd called for Cally; she was gone.
The others - they'd gone, too.
The specter rose, a vision wan -
Infinity would spew
A thousand empty, lonely years,
My independence found.
I roamed my realm. Pursuit ships neared.
Yet to the others bound
I found myself and could not leave.
I had to try once more,
Our fates, it seems, some tangled weave
Upon this distant shore.
by Gail Gawlik - that's me!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:36:47 EST
From: LordRab@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Down and Safe
Message-ID: <7cfa5cc6.364a73ef@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Greetings All !
I am Rab from Phildelphia, PA and have apparently subscribed to the Blake's 7
Newsletter. I would just like to say hello to you all and find out how this
thing works. So this is a bit of a test as well as a salutation to you others
who still can't shake Blake. My wife and I discovered the series on PBS back
in 1983 before we were married. We really became hooked on our wedding night.
But that's another story for another time. For now I just want to see how this
thing works.
I wonder what happens when you push "this" button.........
regards,
Rab
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:15:44 -0000
From: "Taylor, Steve [CCS]" <S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Clive James
Message-ID: <C3C58868ED93D111B04A0800097D2D9D5BA5DD@lis-exchange1.lmu.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain
Did anyone else notice that the credits to the new Clive James on TV
program (UK - Channel 3 Wed:11/11/1998 10:40) contained a Blakes 7 clip
of Tarrant? Given that this program looks at particular genres of TV
each week it might mean that one of them will be a SF theme and he will
be taking the **** out of B7!
Watch that speace if you can!
steveT
unlurking for a bit
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:37:08 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Down and Safe
Message-ID: <d2aad64d.364ae484@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 11/12/98 12:38:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordRab@aol.com
writes:
<< am Rab from Phildelphia, PA and have apparently subscribed to the Blake's
7
Newsletter. >>
Hail and well met! Welcome to the gang. You'll find it fascinating, I hope,
and I look forward to seeing your views on various B7 matters.
If you have a subject you want discussed,, just bring it up. It's hard to
say how and when what topics seem to catch the interest of the list here; you
may find yourself overwhelmed with responces(all tasteful and erudite, of
course:), or it may be a subject that has been recently discussed. Cons also
tend to affect the number of posts. Either way, just have some patience and
you'll find yourself having a great time. D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:47:30 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Defending Blake's honor
Message-ID: <1246c5a1.364ae6f2@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-11-11 23:59:18 EST, Gail wrote:
<< Avon certainly took pains to make everyone think he only cared about
himself,
and yet there were many times he risked all to save his crew. One such
example is in Horizon, where he could have taken off and yet found himself on
the planet in a rescue attempt. >>
I tend to agree with Joanne on this one; Avon may have had doubts about his
ability to survive without the others. He *did* care about them, but not to
the extent of putting them before himself. Gambit is a good example: he left
Blake, Jenna and Cally without backup to go play at the Big Wheel.
In the episodes I have seen, Blake was up front about his goals. If he sent
someone into danger, he would warn them first. He wouldn't use someone as a
stalking horse without telling them or send them into a trap without warning.
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:38:01 GMT
From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray)
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's Past
Message-Id: <199811121538.PAA09089@dux1.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Tiger M,
I don't believe that the Federation 'shipped all convicts to prison
planets to get them off Earth' as the convicts on board the London appear to
be there for serious offences, or, like Villa, were there on a "three strikes
and you're out" rule. The latter would obviously have come under it, as he
was a persistent thief. As to what Nova did to 'get sent to Cygnus Alpha for
life', unless he was, like Blake, a political dissenter who was framed, do
we really want to know. Perhaps he was a rapist, or a serial killer, or a
child abuser.
Certainly Villa was quite cynical when Blake asserted his innocence, stating
that they (the convicts) were all victims of a miscarriage of justice.
It was not said in the series that all the prisoners on the London
were lifers apart from Blake, but it seems, considering what Cygnus Alpha
looked like, that they were all put there for their (in many cases short)
lives. When convicts were transported to Australia, depending on their
crime, some would be freed after a period, and allowed to return to Britain;
others would be freed, but had to stay in the colony for the rest of their
lives. In the context of Cygnus Alpha, I doubt that such mercy would be
shown to any survivors.
Yours,
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:07:23 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Federation Justice
Message-ID: <a12357de.364b3ffb@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-11-12 10:40:03 EST, Murray wrote:
<< I don't believe that the Federation 'shipped all convicts to prison
planets to get them off Earth' as the convicts on board the London appear to
be there for serious offences, or, like Villa, were there on a "three strikes
and you're out" rule. The latter would obviously have come under it, as he
was a persistent thief. >>
Thanks, Murray. This does raise the question of what offences would get
someone made into a mutoid or sold into slavery. Anyone have any comments?
Tiger M
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #283
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