From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #317
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/317
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se

------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

blakes7-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 317

Today's Topics:
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'
	 Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption
	 [B7L] Merry Christmas and apologies
	 Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse
	 Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption
	 Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse
	 Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'
	 [B7L] Re: story arcs
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: [B7L] Re: story arcs
	 Fw: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 [B7L] Holiday Greetings
	 Re: [B7L] RPG
	 Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:25:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1224082501-339Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Thu 24 Dec, Taina Nieminen wrote:
> I've played in a B7-type universe using GURPS, which worked okay. Hunted by
> the Federation is a 120 point disadvantage, which being a group
> disadvantage, bypasses the 40 point disad limit, and gives more than decent
> characters using a 100 point base.

I think one of the RPGs being run at Redemption is using the GURPS system and
another fan who hopes to be able to make it has mentioned that she has a B5
GURPS scenario.

JUdith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:48:37 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'
Message-ID: <36828C85.1D8C@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Penny Dreadful wrote:
regarding the original post:
 
> >Why did Travis make her the offer?
Because he loved her.
This was obvious to me the first time Travis 1 came into her office. And
also, that she did not respect him even then.

When they were in the caves in Orac and Travis protected her from the
Phibians, I thought his love apparent - when he gives that little amused
smile over her fear. And then climbs thru the hole first. And comes to
her aid so quickly. This wasn't military training; this was personal
concern for her safety. Perhaps it was her power he loved, but the power
resided in her body.
 
> >Why did she turn him down?
> ... moreover she didn't respect him enough to *pretend* to
> consider it, which I think she would have done with Season 1 Travis.

With 1st season, she may have pretended just because she wanted to keep
him on a string as she thought he might be useful. I agree that Travis 2
was too far gone to be useful - a loose canon.

She is so dismissive of him in The Keeper it is painful to watch her
reject his offer. The poor man is laying the Entire Galaxy at his lady's
feet. And I believe this blatant demonstration of how she disdained him
is what sent Travis 2 over the edge - his deliverance of Star One to the
Aliens I see totally as revenge against his unrequited love.

A friend of mine says there is nothing more fragile than the Male Ego.
And no better ego stomper than Servalan!

Avon was smart enough to keep her far far from his ego!
Pat P

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:57:31 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Calle Dybedahl" <calle@lysator.liu.se>,
        "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
        "Space City" <Space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption
Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06581@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>; Space City
<Space-city@world.std.com>
> Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption
> Date: 23 December 1998 19:45
> 
> "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > I have a natural gift for rubbing everybody up the wrong way, sooner
> > or later.
> 
> And on both mailing lists at once, even.

I just hit the reply button - Baskerville chose the forums.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:09:04 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Merry Christmas and apologies
Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06597@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A merry Christmas to all (or pleasant Hanukkah or Ramadan where
appropriate)

Peace and goodwill to all men with one notable exception.

Also, apologies for the trouble of late - I certainly didn't mean to
discourage attendance of Redemption, but merely have some concerns over the
appropriateness of the guest's previous behavious - there could be kids in
the audience, for example.

However, one of you seems to have taken it to heart too much and decided to
post abuse of me. How childish.

I wonder if he can resist the urge to have the last word - this is mine on
the subject.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:56:18 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse
Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06576@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Robert Baskerville <Robert@Baskerville.Net>
> 
> I understand that "dangermouse" has posted part or all of a private email
> written by me (to him personally) to these mailing lists.

That's right, because you were trying to gag me.

> This is a blatent
> abuse of netiquette, clearly this character has no manners whatsoever or
> a significant technological ineptitude. 

Again, I presume we've never met... 

Rest assured if we meet at Redemption, I'll try to live up to your
expectations of me.

> I apologise to all the list members
> for the noise this has created.

Likewise, but frankly this arrogant prick is pissing me off, and that just
make me stick to my guns even more. The rest of you, just ignore it.
 
> I'll not bother responding any more to the dangerm00se here; he's welcome
> to hurl abuse directly at me all he likes. <Yawn>

How odd - I'm not the one who calls posters rude, descends to childish
corruptions of their online IDs etc just because someone else doesn't have
the same opinion of me.

There's only one of us hurling abuse at the other here - and it isn't me.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:02:11 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption
Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06588@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
> Damn, damn, someone stealing my thunder already (oy ve!).  But seriously,
> Dangermouse's remarks open a new slant on an actor I'd always taken to be
a
> right-on working class hero.  What was the context of these remarks about
> women, poofs and Pakis? 

To be honest I didn't pay enough attention to them to remember too well - I
just remember observing a somewhat stunned audience looking very
uncomfortable at that panel...

> The big blonde comment is the kind I'd make myself
> without remotely meaning it, so I don't attach much importance to that.
> Guess I'll have to see him in action at Rdemption.

Like I said, Kev Davies and Jan Chappell say he's normally charming, and
must just have been having a bad day (and with that hotel who can blame
him)

I certainly didn't mean to start any flamewars here, but nor am I going to
let Baskerville browbeat me for having a different opinion. As for the
netiquette of posting his email - because I couldn't reply to him directly;
his killfiling was the equivalent of shouting "jinx, no comebacks" and
slamming the phone down childishly.

So I'll apologise to the rest of the list - but not to him.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:45:27 EST
From: ShilLance@aol.com
To: master@sol.co.uk, Blakes7@lysator.liu.se, space-city@world.std.com
Subject: Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse
Message-ID: <9243a00.3682a7e7@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 12/24/98 3:33:24 PM EST, master@sol.co.uk writes:

<< 
 There's only one of us hurling abuse at the other here - and it isn't me.
  >>

How about both of you dropping the nonsense so the rest of us don't suffer?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:43:45 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'
Message-ID: <19981224214346.28998.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Pat said:

>She is so dismissive of him in The Keeper it is painful to watch her
>reject his offer. The poor man is laying the Entire Galaxy at his 
lady's
>feet. And I believe this blatant demonstration of how she disdained him
>is what sent Travis 2 over the edge - his deliverance of Star One to 
the
>Aliens I see totally as revenge against his unrequited love.

Hey, yo, Pat, baby, *great* minds think alike (ignore Calle's occasional 
.sig to the contrary)! A direct quote from one of my web-pages 
(committed under the influence of sinus medication):

"She bullies Travis, mocks him, swats him, has him beaten and abused in 
various ways by various minions, railroads him - but in the end it is 
apparently only her indifference - her obliviousness to his 
eleventh-hour overture (power-sharing proposal, pickup line, I really 
don't think there's much difference, no matter who's involved) - that 
decides him vis � vis going out and doing some serious mass murder..."

-- Penny "But You Can Call Me Marilyn Monroe" Dreadful

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:54:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Robert Baskerville <Robert@Baskerville.Net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: story arcs
Message-Id: <2525.9812242154@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Judith wrote:

>I think one important things even though it isn't a story arc per se is that
>the characters were allowed to change and develop over time.  Thus we get both
>Travis and Blake becoming increasingly fanatic in the second season.  We get
>major changes in Avon's character as he copes with life without first Blake and
>then without Cally and Liberator.  Vila's attitude to Avon changes after Orbit
>(I alway felt that was good acting on Michael Keating's part).

...and a contrast to the way Avon sticks up for Villa in City at the Edge,
and Villa's touching behaviour towards Avon in Rumours (eg immediately after
Shrinker arrives on board)

Returning to Orbit, I wonder if Avon would have hesitated as long as he
did if it had been someone else on board (Tarrant? <grin>)

Robert

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:25:25 +1000
From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <004d01be2ecb$867a18a0$6f6f6f6f@tenzil>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kim asked for volunteers to do GURPS stats for B7 characters.

Yeah, I'll do it. I love character creation. It'll be a pleasure.

Taina
===========================
Is there a mind/body problem?
And if so, which is it better to have?
- Woody Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:38:07 EST
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: story arcs
Message-ID: <4204080f.3682d05f@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Robert wrote:

> Returning to Orbit, I wonder if Avon would have hesitated as long as he
>  did if it had been someone else on board (Tarrant? <grin>)

He wouldn't have hesitated a second.  Avon would have walked out that airlock
as fast as his leather-stiff legs would carry him to save Tarrant. ;-)

Carol Mc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:50:14 +1000
From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Fw: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <001101be2ed7$5fd56720$6f6f6f6f@tenzil>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kim has suggested:

>Maybe if a number of us on the list who are
>familiar with GURPS each take a character or two, or if we all contributed
>suggestions for each character...either of those could be interesting (and
>productive).  We could work out a scenario for them later.
>

And which season.


What I see as some obvious disads (in no particular order) and advantages
for first and second season:

Vila - Kleptomania, Alcoholism (or less extremely, compulsive behaviour -
stealing, addiction - alcohol), Low Pain Threshold, Combat Paralysis,
Cowardice, Laziness, Weak Will (Vila's not doing very well here)

Avon - Odious personal habit - petty insults (5 point), Greed, High Pain
Threshold

Gan - possibly Gigantism - how big is he, exactly? Gullibility? Truthfulness

Travis - One eye (15 points), one arm (no points as bionically replaced),
sadism?

Blake - Fanaticism, stubborness, Charisma

Cally - skinny?

Orac - Legless etc., I'm sure there should be some mental disadvantage,
about hating to be interrupted by mere humans who can't be bothered to think
for themselves - intolerance?

Group enemy - Federation - 40 points, tripled because they appear almost all
the time = 120 points.

Nothing comes to mind for Jenna.

Taina
===========================
Is there a mind/body problem?
And if so, which is it better to have?
- Woody Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:04:02 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <001001be2fa2$e7633ac0$5e17ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>I've played in a B7-type universe using GURPS, which worked okay. Hunted by
>the Federation is a 120 point disadvantage, which being a group
>disadvantage, bypasses the 40 point disad limit, and gives more than decent
>characters using a 100 point base.
>
And going by what it says on p.26 of the Basic Set, you still get up to 40
points per character.  Throw in 5 quirks and you get an extra 165 points per
character.  Eeek!

FWIW, I don't much like GURPS.  It groans under the strain of all those
modifiers and skill defaults (I prefer skill trees myself).

>What's 2300AD like? I've never come across it.


Never played it, only flipped through the rulebook.  It looked okay for a
'realistic' SF setting.

How do people go about rolegaming B7?  Do you use the series characters, or
originals?  I've found that whenever the players use their own PCs, the end
result is a flavourless generic space opera.  The depth of background that
appears to be in the series isn't really there when you turn it into a
rolegame setting.  It's the characters that make it B7.

Do people have trouble reconciling the different appraisals of B7 that
various players might have?  After all, some fans approach it as science
fantasy, others as quasi-cyberpunk.  Various episodes from the series
endorse both extremes and various middle courses between the two. There are
other contentious issues too, like how far in the future B7 is set and does
it matter anyway, and how alien are people like the Auronar.  I can see
players/GMs with strong views on such subjects either getting a bit miffed
or rubbing backs up the wrong way (or both).

And what do you do when the player running Avon does something that s/he
believes is entirely in character for Avon, but everyone else reckons is way
offline?

I *have* run a successful B7 RPG (using the Horizon game, as it happens),
but with series characters and carrying straight on after 'Blake'. Simply
setting an SF scenario in the B7 universe wasn't half as successful.  The
latter approach especially puts a heavy burden on the GM to create lots of
background which is both plausible and in tune with the series (the series
hints at a plausible background, but doesn't actually offer it).

How many people have devised extensive background detail for a B7 rolegame,
and to what extent do their ideas coincide with or contradict one another's?

Neil

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:35:58 -0500
From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" <thesseli@msn.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <02beb46380119c8CPIMSSMTPU02@email.msn.com>

In addition to what's already been posted:

Blake: reputation, delusion ("I am the savior of the masses"!), fanaticism
Vila: combat paralysis, weak will
Avon: paranoia, vow ("I will keep fighting the Federation because I promised
Blake")
Servalan: charisma, status, sadism
Travis: military rank, bad temper, bloodlust.  Travis could also have the
split personality disadvantage...hmm, it must be really severe, to make his
appearance change too!


I wasn't thinking of running the B7 people as player characters, but as
NPC's. That way the GM could make sure they stay in character; you'd have to
come up with your own original characters for the game.   GURPS seems to me
to be the best game system for a B7 RPG, since it's so flexible.  The most
complicated parts are the combat rules, but there probably wouldn't be much
hand to hand combat--so you wouldn't see "I rolled a 3, that's 27
modified--do I hit?" too often.



Kim, the Smartest Vet since Tristan Farnon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:12:54 +1000
From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <001c01be2ee2$ec0d6520$6f6f6f6f@tenzil>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Neil wrote:

>And going by what it says on p.26 of the Basic Set, you still get up to 40
>points per character.  Throw in 5 quirks and you get an extra 165 points
per
>character.  Eeek!

In fact, we did better than that. I got an extra 190 points all up - 120
enemy, 5 sense of duty - companions, 10 status - escaped prisoner, 25
poverty - dead broke, as group disads, and that was with only 25 points of
individual disads + 5 points of quirks. Like, we really tried.
>
>FWIW, I don't much like GURPS.  It groans under the strain of all those
>modifiers and skill defaults (I prefer skill trees myself).

Likewise. A doctor, say, who has electronics operation (medical equipment)
is able to, by default, repair, say, radars or computers. To my mind, that
is just silly. But I do like the GURPS set of advantages and disadvantages
very much. Most of my GMing in the last five years has been using a
skill-based system I created myself, but it's in limbo at the moment between
revisions, so I'm currently using GURPS for one campaign, and Champions for
the other.


>How do people go about rolegaming B7?  Do you use the series characters, or
>originals?  I've found that whenever the players use their own PCs, the end
>result is a flavourless generic space opera.  The depth of background that
>appears to be in the series isn't really there when you turn it into a
>rolegame setting.  It's the characters that make it B7.

Well, my experience in the B7-type one was quite dreadful, The reason it was
B7 based was that our group had varying exposure to B7, ranging from none,
to fourth season only, to passing through the living room while I watched B7
videos. Anyway, our GM was an experienced roleplayer, but very inexperienced
GM. We were saddled with super-NPC who could do everything we could do, but
better, and who wasn't shy about letting us know, and who became righteously
indignant when we didn't acknowledge her obvious superiority. The NPC bit is
important, it's not just a rant. Instead of fighting the Federation, we
ended up sitting around while the NPC and the late-joining PC talked about
economic problems with the favoured alien species who were superior in all
ways to humans. Compared to that, generic space opera with space battles and
shoot-outs with Federation guards seems quite attractive. I guess it's all a
matter of viewpoint.


>And what do you do when the player running Avon does something that s/he
>believes is entirely in character for Avon, but everyone else reckons is
way
>offline?

The Champions game I'm running (which I've started only recently) faces a
similar problem in that it uses established characters from a comicbook
series (Legion of Superheroes). What I've done is to begin at the
beginning - at the formation of the Legion (ie beginning point of the
series) so that players don't have the burden of what their character has
done in the past being canonical. They're taking a character concept, and
some have taken it much better than others. Only at one point have I (so
far) said to a player, "Look, that character would simply not do that," and
that was for a very bad character misinterpretation. In the interests of
harmony, and not getting caught up in cyclical arguments (yes s/he would, no
s/he wouldn't), I've ignored (what I see as) other character
misinterpretations. And I hope that my players will generally do that, too.
But that's my opinion, and I realise that people do sometimes feel strongly
about characters dear to their hearts.

I guess the above is sort of B7 related.

Taina
===========================
Is there a mind/body problem?
And if so, which is it better to have?
- Woody Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:19:55 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption
Message-ID: <00a601be2fad$657d22e0$5e17ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>What was the context of these remarks about
>> women, poofs and Pakis?


Maybe he was being deliberately abrasive in an attempt to stir up a
response.  Not that I would know anything about such tactics.

>I certainly didn't mean to start any flamewars here, but nor am I going to
>let Baskerville browbeat me for having a different opinion. As for the
>netiquette of posting his email - because I couldn't reply to him directly;
>his killfiling was the equivalent of shouting "jinx, no comebacks" and
>slamming the phone down childishly.
>
>So I'll apologise to the rest of the list - but not to him.


No apology required, and the exception would appear to be justified.

Neil

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:05:04 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <00a501be2fad$649b4e60$5e17ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>Maybe if a number of us on the list who are
>>familiar with GURPS each take a character or two, or if we all contributed
>>suggestions for each character...either of those could be interesting (and
>>productive).  We could work out a scenario for them later.
>>
What about Wealth?  If a cheap hooker is a ten-credit touch ('Gambit') then
a credit works out at about 3 dollars.  Standard starting wealth for an
interstellar campaign is 15,000 dollars (p.16), or 5,000 credits.  Jenna
estimated the contents of the Liberator's strongroom at 300 million credits,
which between the six of the crew makes 50 million each.  This is 10,000
times average starting wealth and would have a character point cost of
several thousand...
    And then there's Reputation (p.17).  How well known are the characters,
and what kind of reputation do they have?  Kayn worked out who they were in
'Breakdown' and Renor had heard of them, so this can't be ignored.  Blake at
least would certainly have a high Reputation.


Ads and disads for the characters;

>Vila - Kleptomania, Alcoholism (or less extremely, compulsive behaviour -
>stealing, addiction - alcohol), Low Pain Threshold, Combat Paralysis,
>Cowardice, Laziness, Weak Will (Vila's not doing very well here)
    Also well over the 40 point limit.  I personally don't like seeing
psychological traits integrated into the rules, so I'd ignore the cowardice
and laziness and probably the weak will as well, and just expect the player
to pay homage to them.
>
>Avon - Odious personal habit - petty insults (5 point), Greed, High Pain
>Threshold
    Wot, no Attractiveness?  Surely he's worth 15 points minimum on that
<g>.  Mathematical ability seems likely.


>Travis - One eye (15 points), one arm (no points as bionically replaced),
>sadism?
    Military rank (p.22), probably rank 4 or 5 if he commanded troops in the
field.  If the eye contains an implant (rangefinder, light intensifier etc)
then it might actually cost points, not bestow them, likewise the arm (what
does GURPS Cyberpunk say about characters who start with implants?).
>
>Blake - Fanaticism, stubborness, Charisma
    Charisma certainly.  What about the Major Delusion that everything will
be really nice once the Federation's gone?  Sense of Duty, anyone?

>Orac - Legless etc., I'm sure there should be some mental disadvantage,
>about hating to be interrupted by mere humans who can't be bothered to
think
>for themselves - intolerance?
    More to the point, how do you stop it cracking open top secret files and
ripping the GM's plot to shreds?


What about Servalan?  Her social status level must be at least 5, possibly
6, for a mere 25-30 points.  Or do you give her Military Rank of 10 (say)
for a considerably higher 50 points?  She's bound to be at least Very
Wealthy if not Filthy Rich (30/50 points respectively).  Her job could count
as a permanent Duty to offset the cost, but that would only be worth 15
points at most (ought to be less, since it's not a particularly dangerous
Duty), which doesn't leave much to spend on stats and skills.

All in all, I think GURPS is a very silly game - it leaves far too much open
to interpretation (and hence argument).

Maybe I ought to dust off my own effort and try and knock it into something
presentable.

Neil

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:24:19 +1000
From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <002701be2eec$e66179e0$6f6f6f6f@tenzil>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Neil wrote:

>What about Wealth?  <snipped> This is 10,000
>times average starting wealth and would have a character point cost of
>several thousand...

50 point wealth - they can buy almost anything they want without considering
the cost.

>    And then there's Reputation (p.17).  How well known are the characters,
>and what kind of reputation do they have?

Some of the characters would also have individual reps as well as the group
(rebel) reputation. Blake might, for example, have a reputation as a child
molester. Some people recognise Jenna from her days as a free trader.

>>Vila - Kleptomania, Alcoholism (or less extremely, compulsive behaviour -
>>stealing, addiction - alcohol), Low Pain Threshold, Combat Paralysis,
>>Cowardice, Laziness, Weak Will (Vila's not doing very well here)
>    Also well over the 40 point limit.  I personally don't like seeing
>psychological traits integrated into the rules, so I'd ignore the cowardice
>and laziness and probably the weak will as well, and just expect the player
>to pay homage to them.

With Vila, it's a case of take your pick to make up the 40 points. I'd put
his kleptomania and fondness for alcohol as quirks rather than disads,
because he seems to restrain himself with respect to them quite often.
Personally, I don't have a problem with psychological traits listed as
disads. It encourages players to think about the weaknesses as well as the
strengths that define their character, and helps to keep them from
roleplaying those weaknesses only when it is convenient for them.
>>
>>Avon - Odious personal habit - petty insults (5 point), Greed, High Pain
>>Threshold
>    Wot, no Attractiveness?  Surely he's worth 15 points minimum on that

Nah, five points only. Especially with his hair style in the first season.
He is not going to be winning any beauty contests.

>    More to the point, how do you stop it <ORAC> cracking open top secret
files and
>ripping the GM's plot to shreds?

You could set it before the crew acquired Orac, you could have Orac sulking
for the duration of the scenario, the top secret files could be kept on
paper only, because the Federation knows about Orac, Orac being taken over
by a hostile force, or stolen by the enemy, could be part of the scenario.
Avon could have taken the key with him because he's feeling paranoid. The
Liberator could just have passed through a weird electromagnetic field that
damaged Orac and Avon hasn't fixed him yet.

Servalan -
social status 6 (30 points)
military rank 8 (40 points) (my GURPS edition gives 8 as the highest
military rank)
wealth - I'd rate her as comfortable for 10 points, because she works full
time at her job (focusing on that, rather than whatever her actual assets
are)
patron - Federation Space Command (25 points)

duty - Space Command (-15 points)
sense of duty - order in the Federation above all (-10 points)
enemy - Blake and crew (-20 points, or possibly -40 points)
enemy - High Council ? (-40 points)

(Travis will also have Space Command for a patron, until after Trial, and
Servalan individually, even after Trial.)

The GM can, of course, waive the 40 point limit.

>Duty), which doesn't leave much to spend on stats and skills.

She's an NPC, and a villain at that. She can cost as much as she needs to.

Taina
===========================
Is there a mind/body problem?
And if so, which is it better to have?
- Woody Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:53:05 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: space-city@world.std.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Holiday Greetings
Message-ID: <6db49720.36830c21@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I would like to wish everyone on the list a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah,
Happy Ramadan or whatever may apply.  To Lisa, Deborah, Lorna and any other
list members in the southern portion of the U.S., I'm sorry about the mess the
recent cold and ice has caused.  Freezing rain, no salt trucks and drivers
unused to icy conditions are not a fun combination, not to mention the power
outages.  I hope your holidays are not disrupted too much.

Tiger M

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:38:22 -0500
From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" <thesseli@msn.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <0a02821411619c8CPIMSSMTPU09@email.msn.com>

Since these characters are already 'established'--meaning, they're not just
starting out--they would have higher total points than a new player
character.


>>>
>What about Wealth?  If a cheap hooker is a ten-credit touch ('Gambit') then
>a credit works out at about 3 dollars.  Standard starting wealth for an
>interstellar campaign is 15,000 dollars (p.16), or 5,000 credits.  Jenna
>estimated the contents of the Liberator's strongroom at 300 million
credits,
>which between the six of the crew makes 50 million each.  This is 10,000
>times average starting wealth and would have a character point cost of
>several thousand...
>    And then there's Reputation (p.17).  How well known are the characters,
>and what kind of reputation do they have?  Kayn worked out who they were in
>'Breakdown' and Renor had heard of them, so this can't be ignored.  Blake
at
>least would certainly have a high Reputation.
>
>
>Ads and disads for the characters;
>
>>Vila - Kleptomania, Alcoholism (or less extremely, compulsive behaviour -
>>stealing, addiction - alcohol), Low Pain Threshold, Combat Paralysis,
>>Cowardice, Laziness, Weak Will (Vila's not doing very well here)
>    Also well over the 40 point limit.  I personally don't like seeing
>psychological traits integrated into the rules, so I'd ignore the cowardice
>and laziness and probably the weak will as well, and just expect the player
>to pay homage to them.
>>
>>Avon - Odious personal habit - petty insults (5 point), Greed, High Pain
>>Threshold
>    Wot, no Attractiveness?  Surely he's worth 15 points minimum on that
><g>.  Mathematical ability seems likely.
>
>
>>Travis - One eye (15 points), one arm (no points as bionically replaced),
>>sadism?
>    Military rank (p.22), probably rank 4 or 5 if he commanded troops in
the
>field.  If the eye contains an implant (rangefinder, light intensifier etc)
>then it might actually cost points, not bestow them, likewise the arm (what
>does GURPS Cyberpunk say about characters who start with implants?).
>>
>>Blake - Fanaticism, stubborness, Charisma
>    Charisma certainly.  What about the Major Delusion that everything will
>be really nice once the Federation's gone?  Sense of Duty, anyone?
>
>>Orac - Legless etc., I'm sure there should be some mental disadvantage,
>>about hating to be interrupted by mere humans who can't be bothered to
>think
>>for themselves - intolerance?
>    More to the point, how do you stop it cracking open top secret files
and
>ripping the GM's plot to shreds?
>
>
>What about Servalan?  Her social status level must be at least 5, possibly
>6, for a mere 25-30 points.  Or do you give her Military Rank of 10 (say)
>for a considerably higher 50 points?  She's bound to be at least Very
>Wealthy if not Filthy Rich (30/50 points respectively).  Her job could
count
>as a permanent Duty to offset the cost, but that would only be worth 15
>points at most (ought to be less, since it's not a particularly dangerous
>Duty), which doesn't leave much to spend on stats and skills.
>
>All in all, I think GURPS is a very silly game - it leaves far too much
open
>to interpretation (and hence argument).
>
>Maybe I ought to dust off my own effort and try and knock it into something
>presentable.
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:00:53 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'
Message-ID: <36841925.3F6A@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Penny Dreadful wrote:
> 
> "She bullies Travis, mocks him, swats him, has him beaten and abused in
> various ways by various minions, railroads him - but in the end it is
> apparently only her indifference - her obliviousness to his
> eleventh-hour overture (power-sharing proposal, pickup line, I really
> don't think there's much difference, no matter who's involved) - that
> decides him vis � vis going out and doing some serious mass murder..."
> 
oh, nicely put!
This reminds me of uncounted Avon stories, where Servalan ... mocks him,
swats him, has him beaten and abused in various ways by various minions
...

In all the fanfic I've read, I don't recall a story about the unrequited
love affair of Travis for Servalan.

>From the first time we see them, their remarks indicate more than a
professional relationship.
Travis: "I'm not one of your decorative staff officers" (i.e. boy toy
lovers)
Servalan: "I find it... displeasing." (normally, a commander would find
scary-looking soldiers pleasing)

At one point, they probably did have "relations" After the event -
probably done in a moment of boredome while they were stationed on some
dirtball during some uprising - Servalan felt nothing; but Travis now
lives on longing for what he will never have again: possession of this
icon of all he most admires but will never be himself.

Travis is too pragmatic not to realize that while he is bold, maybe even
cunning, he is far from possessing the brilliantly strategic and
ruthless far thinking genius Servalan demonstrates - time and again.

Once, he may have seen her as an adjunct to his career: when they were
younger, he may have been her consort at a fancy dress military ball;
what a fine figure two-eyed Travis made in his dress blacks. On his arm
the up and coming Major Servalan, striking in an elegant ivory sheath, a
slash of medals emblazoning her breast...

And then follow poor long suffering Travis as she slips further and
further from his grasp, as fate and circumstance continue to drive him
down an entirely different success curve.

Hey, this story has everything for a tragic love story. Who wants to
write it? Please post it to the list in time for a "broken hearts"
Valentines Day gazette here.

It would rank right up there with all the Avon/Anna and Vila/Kerril and
Tarrant/Zeeona stories. (Sorry, Dayna/Justin and Soolin/Dorian and
Cally/Zelda just don't have the same cachet.) Altho Servalan/Jarvik has
undeveloped potential!
Pat P

--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #317
**************************************