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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 321
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Travis, etc.
Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'
Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics
Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics
[B7L] Re: Casting
Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Re: [B7L] Re: Casting
FW: [B7L] Travis has three faces
RE: [B7L] RPG
Re: [B7L] RPG
Re: [B7L] RPG
[B7L] zine prices
[B7L] Space Fall
[B7L] OT: ah been cut off from worl
Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:55:49 -0000
From: "Jenni -Alison" <Jenni-Alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis, etc.
Message-Id: <199812292347.AAA02564@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Neil wrote:
> Iasked who, not why. The why is obvious.
If Servalan seized power during the crisis of Star One, which was somewhat
unanticipated, she may have leapt before she was ready. Her influence might
well have extended far enough to knock out the influential members of the
high council, but could she really have had enough people in place to kill
off all bureaucrats - councilors in waiting ready to fill the old members
shoes when time allowed? With the unexpectedly high losses of troops and
ships in the conflict with the Andromedans her hold on power could well
have been tenuous at best. I suggest that she may have had the slenderest
of holds on power, and the frequency with which she was forced to leave the
centre of power, combined possibly with the abortive coup lead by Sula,
destabilised her sufficiently that the remaining support group centred
around the ex-councillors combined could elevate and appoint new
Councillors, call on political or familial loyalties within the military
(may commanders could well be family members for high placed political
Alphas) and declare Servalan a traitor while she was off on a mission with
some of her most loyal officers. After all, Travis was so much better than
what she had left, and he didn't turn out that effective, did he?
Jenni
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:17:28 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Message-ID: <003701be3399$72dab020$fc1aac3e@default>
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>Because of the spiders, it was only safe to harvest kairopan for the seven
>days after the vernal equinox. The plan was to steal the kairopan when it
was
>in transport. The impression the episode gives is that the heist would
have
>succeeded if Tarrant hadn't been up against someone who knew him so
>well--Jarvik. Tarrant easily outwits a standard Federation trap early in
the
>episode. Tarrant's military background gave him an edge in that case. His
>military background--most specifically the time he served under
Jarvik--worked
>against him later.
The trouble with 'Harvest' is it's too concerned with ranting from a soapbox
and not nearly concerned enough with making sense. The central thrust of
Ben Steed's luddite tirade is that we poor human beings are degraded,
deluded and dehumanised by the relentless march of technological progress.
Hence we get Jarvik, who as a 'real man' is ultimately nothing more than an
untypically rugged Mary Sue. He proves he's a bona fide Ubermensch by
lobotomising a couple of troopers, fooling Tarrant and capturing the
Liberator with a ruse the Brady Bunch could see through, and giving Servalan
the good hard shagging she's been needing for years. Rambo's almost a pinko
drip by comparison.
And it all hangs on a plot that doesn't bear examination. All that
technology that Jarviks rails against would make short work of any marauding
spiders. Or since the kairopan (just what was it valuable for anyway?)
simply lies around on the surface, it could be collected by robots.
I don't really know much about Ben Steed, but he comes across as a closet
fantasy-monger who thinks SF falls under the same umbrella. And why does he
always have to peddle his misogyny in every episode he writes? He's worse
than Robert Holmes and his homophobia.
Neil (aka Rik)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:49:03 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper'
Message-ID: <003601be3399$7209a480$fc1aac3e@default>
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>Can I be Vyvyan, then?
Oi, no! Bagsy me for Vyvyan. Actually I'm more of a Rik, and I'm only
*calling* myself Neil to *confuse* you and it actually worked rather well
didn't it, which is really pretty 'anarchic' when you think about it.
>
>>Disagree completely. Servalan believed in the Federation.
>
>She tried to rip them off in 'Deliverance'/'Orac' and 'Weapon', screwed
>them over to save her own skin in 'Pressure Point', *and* overthrew them
>at her earliest viable opportunity in 'Star One'. She may well have
>believed in *Servalan's Federation* (cf. Dave Barry, beating Terry
>Pratchett to the punch, I think - and I paraphrase: 'Power to the
>People: i.e. Power to Me and a Few of My Friends Who Know What's Good
>For The People') but inasmuch as loyalty to the Federation means
>respecting/obeying its precedents...No. Servalan is an Eva Peron who did
>not have the misfortune to die at 33.
>Or was that Jesus?
>
Servalan believed in the Federation, just as Hitler believed in Germany.
When you know what's good for everyone else, you're driven by something far
higher and nobler than mere personal ambition. Just look at Blake. For
Servalan, power was a means to an end. And an end which justified any means
at that.
>>Who the frag is frag, and if you revere Him so, why don't you capitalise
>His name?
Frag is shorthand for 'fragmentation'. As in grenade. It can also be
regarded as a euphemism.
>
>>>Travis didn't want all that power, too complicated, messy. He wanted
>>>*access* to all that power. He wanted Servalan to take control and
>just
>>>give him whatever he asked for (Ships to chase Blake. Guns to shoot
>>>Blake. Knives to stab Blake).
>>
>>Nope, he wanted to take out Star One, let the Andromedans in, and wave
>>bye-bye to the human race. Since he went to Star One believing he was
>the
>>only one knowing where it was, he had no reason to expect Blake to be
>there.
>>Ergo eliminating Blake had become a lesser priority.
>
>Aaah, I really would like to disagree with Neil here, but that's always
>been my reading...
Then you're right, aren't you...
>
>>Travis needed to believe that Servalan, along with
>>the rest of the Federation, was corrupt beyond redemption. His offer
>of
>>Star One on Goth was his way of testing Servalan. The result ran
>counter to
>>his expectations but he went ahead anyway.
>
>Yes, no doubt in my mind, it *was* by way of testing Servalan, but I
>don't imagine his reasoning was that *rational*.
Whoever said it had to be? He was one poor mixed-up bunny by that stage,
albeit the kind that bites people's heads off.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:07:01 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics
Message-ID: <003801be3399$738288e0$fc1aac3e@default>
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Jenni Allison wrote:
>If Servalan seized power during the crisis of Star One, which was somewhat
>unanticipated, she may have leapt before she was ready.
She knew Blake was looking for Star One, she'd be a right fool to believe
that Travis might not have found it. So she had some forewarning that a
crisis involving Star One was in the offing. By saying 'she may have leapt
before she was ready', which suggests she had been planning a coup for some
time. There's no real evidence for that, as I recall. In fact, her removal
of the President and High Council seems to be motivated by her belief that
*they* are the ones tinkering with Star One, so she was forced to stage a
coup in order to save the Federation from this enemy within.
On the other hand, that might just have been her excuse, though personally I
don't think so.
>Her influence might
>well have extended far enough to knock out the influential members of the
>high council, but could she really have had enough people in place to kill
>off all bureaucrats - councilors in waiting ready to fill the old members
>shoes when time allowed?
Would she need to? Most of those scrambling up the ladder of power don't
really care who's at top, they just want to make it to the next rung up. In
fact, many would welcome a change of management - a whole brand new pair of
shoes to lick.
>With the unexpectedly high losses of troops and
>ships in the conflict with the Andromedans her hold on power could well
>have been tenuous at best.
This was first mooted, I think, in 'Harvest' ("There isn't a Federation any
more" - Tarrant), and things didn't seem to have got much better by
'Moloch'.
>...the remaining support group centred
>around the ex-councillors combined could elevate and appoint new
>Councillors, call on political or familial loyalties within the military
><snip> and declare Servalan a traitor
Quite possible. Although the magic words are never mentioned, I think the
Federation was thrown into a state of civil war following the Andromedan
invasion. Evidence is slender, though:
- Chesku talked of "Earth and the Inner Planets being reunited", so
presumably they had been divided for a while. Perhaps this was one of
Servalan's few successes? Control of Earth would give her a considerable
edge, if only psychological.
- CA1 referred to a galactic rather than intergalactic war, possibly
indicating galaxy-wide infighting. More likely a slip up by Roger Parkes,
though.
- Justin cited the rest of the research team on Bucol 2 being wiped out
by an enemy gunship. If the enemy were alien, you'd think he might have
mentioned that. But then again, perhaps not.
One thing I do suspect strongly is that Servalan was not deposed by a
military faction. The High Council was restored after she was deposed
(which implies she dissolved the Council at some point after 'Rumours'), not
replaced by a military government. Also, there is no mention of Space
Command throughout the 4th Season, suggesting that the new civilian
government was determined not to give the military the same kind of
quasi-autonomy it had enjoyed in the pre-War days. Which endorses what
Jenni suggests above, that familial and ideological loyalties ultimately
took precedence over professional ones.
Thank you, Jenni.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:07:01 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics
Message-ID: <e23a9a66.368998d5@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-12-29 21:15:40 EST, Neil wrote:
<< One thing I do suspect strongly is that Servalan was not deposed by a
military faction. The High Council was restored after she was deposed
(which implies she dissolved the Council at some point after 'Rumours'), not
replaced by a military government. Also, there is no mention of Space
Command throughout the 4th Season, suggesting that the new civilian
government was determined not to give the military the same kind of
quasi-autonomy it had enjoyed in the pre-War days. Which endorses what
Jenni suggests above, that familial and ideological loyalties ultimately
took precedence over professional ones.
>>
This raises a question. In the fourth season, was it the Federation that was
after the Scorpio crew or was it primarily Servalan/Sleer? She seemed to be
behind the attempts to capture or kill them, and in episodes such as
"Assassin," I got the impression that it was a personal vendetta, perhaps
because they could identify her as Servalan. She either wanted them dead or
under her control where they could don her no harm.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:14:51 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Casting
Message-ID: <199812292215_MC2-6508-7110@compuserve.com>
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Joanne replied:
>Harriet said:
>>If Basil is Krantor, can Manuel be Toise?
>Can't see it myself (the ABC is repeating Fawlty
>Towers on Saturday nights at the moment). How
>about Sybil? Well, it's just a suggestion. Sybil and
>Basil seem to be operating on roughly the same
>planet, as do Krantor and Toise. Manuel might
>be better off as the croupier.
If anything, I'd have Sybil as the Croupier. Polly is Chenie, and I think
the Major might be Docholli. The casting for Cevedic doesn't immediately
strike me.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:18:36 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Message-ID: <31d2cce7.36899b8c@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-12-29 21:15:27 EST, Neil wrote:
<< And it all hangs on a plot that doesn't bear examination. All that
technology that Jarviks rails against would make short work of any marauding
spiders. Or since the kairopan (just what was it valuable for anyway?)
simply lies around on the surface, it could be collected by robots.
>>
Perhaps the kairopan would be damaged by robots, or robots were too expensive.
I remember an anecdote one of my history professors told. He was in Turkey.
He saw a refridgerator unloaded off a ship ans several men picked it up and
started carrying it down the road. He asked what was going on and was told
that the fridge was being delivered to a town something like a hundred miles
away. It was cheaper to hire several men to carry that fridge on foot than it
was to get a truck. The Federation didn't seem to be particularly concerned
about people's lives.
As for the spiders, maybe they were as tough as cockroaches or something. For
all our technology, there's not too much we can do about them. And perhaps
the kairopan was essential to a manufacturing process or was refined into
something else. Silver ore doesn't look like much either.
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:31:17 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Message-ID: <19981230033118.5224.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>The trouble with 'Harvest' is it's too concerned with ranting from a
>soapbox and not nearly concerned enough with making sense. [snip]
>And it all hangs on a plot that doesn't bear examination. All that
>technology that Jarviks rails against would make short work of any
>marauding spiders. Or since the kairopan (just what was it valuable
>for anyway?) simply lies around on the surface, it could be collected
>by robots.
<wide-eyed> Thank you, Neil. Would it be better if I avoided that
episode if it ever came my way? Or does it have to be seen to be
believed? <grin>
Mind you, the same writer was responsible for "Power", wasn't he, and I
haven't seen that either. Which episode is worse? (You are at liberty to
point to other episodes as being truly bad, if you wish.)
Regards
Joanne
When you're seaching your soul, when you're searching for pleasure
How often pain is all you'll find
But when you're coasting along & nobody's trying too hard
You can turn around and like where you are
--The Sundays, When I'm Thinking About You
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:08:21 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Message-Id: <199812300404.WAA06563@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Joanne MacQueen wrote:
>Would it be better if I avoided that episode if it ever came my way? Or
>does it have to be seen to be believed? <grin>
Oh, you *have* to see "Harvest". It's one of the funniest episodes of the
whole series.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:22:07 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Casting
Message-Id: <199812300416.WAA21197@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Harriet said:
>If anything, I'd have Sybil as the Croupier. Polly is Chenie, and I think
>the Major might be Docholli. The casting for Cevedic doesn't immediately
>strike me.
How about Terry the Cook? Or better still--O'Reilly the contractor.
Competence was hardly his middle name either...
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:59:13 +1030
From: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" <DUNML001@students.unisa.edu.au>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: FW: [B7L] Travis has three faces
Message-ID: <AE6AF4DBBDA8D111B1D200AA00DD6129015E92BF@EXSTUDENT4.Magill.UniSA.Edu.Au>
Content-Type: text/plain
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judith Proctor [SMTP:Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, 14 December 1998 3:56
> To: Lysator List
> Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis has three faces
>
>
>
> >> 1980 Blake's 7 annual, published by IPC.
> >> Why is Travis a guy with a goatee and no obvious cybernetic attachments?
>
> >Probably because the artists lived overseas and had hardly any reference
> >pictures. You'll find the same few character costumes crop up again and
> again,
> >even when they were no longer being worn on screen.
> >I'd bet that they simply didn't known what he looked like. (They usually
> get
> >his rank wrong in the annuals)
> >Judith
>
>
> So, is this the answer? Poor source material? Does anyone know who the artist
> was?
>
> Homophobic or not, Robert Holmes was still The Man! A Holmes script is
> readily identifiable through equal parts Drama and Sadism.
>
> What about the film clip of "Learning to Fly"? The one with the guy reaping a
> field and then jumping off a cliff with a couple of feathers? Couldn't escape
> it in 1988!
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:24:41 +1030
From: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" <DUNML001@students.unisa.edu.au>
To: "'Dangermouse'" <master@sol.co.uk>, lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] RPG
Message-ID: <AE6AF4DBBDA8D111B1D200AA00DD6129015E92C0@EXSTUDENT4.Magill.UniSA.Edu.Au>
Content-Type: text/plain
> ----------
> > From: calle@lysator.liu.se
> > Unless it's a very, *very* strange campaign, Orac absolutely should
> > not be a player character.
>
Dangermouse
> Hm.
>
> Again, I could see him work in Paranoia...
>
>
>
I like Paranoia. My players are undecided.
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:02:36 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: <ARBoddy@aol.com>
Cc: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-Id: <199812301315.NAA08190@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: ARBoddy@aol.com
> > Again, I could see him work in Paranoia...
>
> As a PC? He'd be rather hampered, wouldn't he? No functional
> mobility, and given the nature of the computers with which he'd have
> to interact, the player would be making insanity rolls every few
> minutes. [Insert smiley here]
Still, it'd be a challenge.
> As an NPC, though, it'd be fun, since we all know what the
> Computer's reaction would be.
Absolutely, which is mainly what I meant.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:01:43 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" <DUNML001@students.unisa.edu.au>,
"lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG
Message-Id: <199812301315.NAA08187@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001 <DUNML001@students.unisa.edu.au>
> I like Paranoia. My players are undecided.
Yeah, it's generally better for the GM - who at least gets to see how funny
the plot can be...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:10:41 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
cc: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] zine prices
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1230191041-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
As of 10 January the prices of all Linda Knight's zines will be going up by a
minimum of 20 cents because of increased US postal rates. (Zines that she
agents from me will be unaffected as UK postal rates have not changed)
If you get an order in before 10 Jan (or before 9 Jan if ordering via me in the
UK) then you'll get the zines at the current price.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:14:17 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Space Fall
Message-Id: <199812302018.UAA09861@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Oh, I was just flicking through the BBFC's website and it says the
rerelease this year was uncut- wish I'd bought one now...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:20:56 +1100 (EST)
From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list)
Subject: [B7L] OT: ah been cut off from worl
Message-Id: <m0zvTz6-000TbPC@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text
This is terribly off-topic, but if anyone's been trying to email me
for the past few days, it may not have gotten through, since a site
upstream from welkin got its disk filled up and went comatose for a
few days.
ObB7: This of course reminds me of my usual perennial wondering; what
is a Tarriel Cell really? And how widespread were voice-recognition
computers in the Federation? I got the impression that they were rare
because the standard interface we see the plebs and Servalan's people
using was a keyboard. I assumed that this was because computers able
to understand voice commands were really expensive.
However, another thought has just occurred to me -- maybe at least in
the military, voice-recognition computers weren't used for security
reasons. Yes, voice-recognition as a way of preventing unauthorised
persons *using* the computer would seem to be a *positive* security
aspect - but get one audio bug in a command centre, and there goes all
your security. The other thing is that it might be clearer if spoken
commands only went to people; it might confuse the computer if a lot
of people were talking at once. After all, Slave was considered to be
*unusually* sophisticated, so maybe other voice-recognition computers
were limited to being rich people's playthings, or academic perks.
Kathryn Andersen
A.S.K.S.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:59:09 -0000
From: "Paul Whalley" <PAWhalley@serpiente.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "Blakes7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
Message-ID: <000001be3454$d80ed320$9402883e@twleckuj>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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-----Original Message-----
From: Joanne MacQueen <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Date: 30 December 1998 03:46
Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest
><wide-eyed> Thank you, Neil. Would it be better if I avoided that
>episode if it ever came my way? Or does it have to be seen to be
>believed? <grin>
>
>Mind you, the same writer was responsible for "Power", wasn't he, and I
>haven't seen that either. Which episode is worse? (You are at liberty to
>point to other episodes as being truly bad, if you wish.)
>
>Regards
>Joanne
I watched Harvest Of Kairos last Sunday and in my opinion it is a good
episode. Admittedly, I had to laugh when I saw the Spider for the first
time.
Has anyone figured out what Avon originally said when he calls Tarrant an
"astute space commander." His lip movements do not tally with the word
"astute".
Also, I thought it was very unlike Avon not to realise that
Kairos was the logical place for them to be transported to, being a planet
with a breatheable atomosphere (especially as the Liberator was orbiting it
at the time).
Paul
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End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #321
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