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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 39
Today's Topics:
[B7L] mandates - sorry, persondates
[B7L] Paul and Michael
Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Re: [B7L] Paul and Michael
Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
[B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
[B7L] Blake as a terrorist
Re: [B7L] Blake as a terrorist
[B7L] Re Forbidden Planet
Re: [B7L] Blake as a terrorist
Re: [B7L] The Web 1/2
Re: [B7L] Re Forbidden Planet
Re: [B7L] Blake as a terrorist
[B7L] Avon/Vila v Paul/Michael
[B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY
Re: [B7L] Avon/Vila v Paul/Michael
[B7L] Re: Ads
Re: [B7L] The Web 1/2
[B7L] Re: Blake's manipulativeness
[B7L] Altrincham
[B7L] Paul's acting
Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's manipulativeness
Re: [B7L] Paul's acting
[B7L] role playing
Re: [B7L] Paul's acting
Re: [B7L] role playing
Re: [B7L] role playing
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 04:13:18 +1100
From: Fran Myers <algemy@ozemail.com.au>
To: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] mandates - sorry, persondates
Message-ID: <34DDE7AE.326@ozemail.com.au>
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Kathryn sez: Did Blake have a mandate from the people?
Or, to put that in a negative form, was Blake *rejected* by the people?
(like the IRA was)
Do we have any way of knowing what the opinions of the people were in
any case?
If most of the people were zonked out on happy drugs, were they capable
of having/giving a mandate? Or is the mandate only from misfits and
rebels who aren't really "in" the society?
Wow - should we stop alcoholics and drug addicts from voting? How about
depressives, like me, or schizophrenics, or epileptics, who behave
"normally" only by taking drugs?
Fran
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 04:23:15 +1100
From: Fran Myers <algemy@ozemail.com.au>
To: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Paul and Michael
Message-ID: <34DDEA03.5709@ozemail.com.au>
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I have to disagree with whichever one said that Michael is the better
>actor,
Me. In spite of the fact that the only reason I don't spend an entire
con weekend gazing soulfully at Paul is that I'm too busy gazing
soulfully at Gareth :-)
Actually me. I said it!
Fran ;o)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:03:25 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: "Adam L. Fuller" <adfuller@ix.netcom.com>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-ID: <34DDF36D.65DC@jps.net>
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Hi,
I'm new to the B7 mailing list, but a long-time fan.
About personality types. I've never been comfortable with those tests
that determine your personality type, because I feel that for every
tendancy I have, there is a tendancy that pulls me in the opposite
direction, and I think that is true of everyone. For example, Are you an
extrovert or and introvert? is not an either/or question, because in
certain situations, most people change from one to the other.
As Avon put it, "The intelligent man is adaptable."
Helen Krummenacker, aka Avona
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:22:57 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: algemy@ozemail.com.au
CC: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Paul and Michael
Message-ID: <34DDF801.7860@jps.net>
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Paul Darrow and Michael Keating have different ways of acting that
compliment each other perfectly.
Michael is very expressive with the whole of his face and body, very
relaxed and fluid.
Paul acts with his eyes and the corners of his mouth. If you watch
carefully, you can follow his entire thinking process, even in scenes
where he doesn't get to speak. I will never forget the look on his face
the first episode he was in, when the guy on the prison ship slapped
Jenna. Paul had no lines, but was in the background. You could see there
that Avon is fiercely protective of women (yes, I know he gets a little
rough with Servalan, the Sarcophagus woman, and the telekinetic women at
the beginning of season 4, but those were special situations, where the
woman in question was trying to force her will upon everyone else. And
Avon loves his freedom more than chivalry). Paul's acting is very
subtle, and a person has to be good at reading faces in order to
understand him. To many people Avon is an enigma, but his eyes reveal
everything.
Which acting style is harder? Well, I think that which is easier to read
is easier to duplicate. We all know how to make faces representig fear,
anger, surprise, joy. It's harder I think, to act like one is trying to
surpress the emotion, and still let it show.
Helen Krummenacker, aka Avona
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:18:44 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980208131723.00b51224@dallas.net>
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Adam L. Fuller wrote:
>Just about every single NT that I know, including myself, cares
>nothing about how their clothes look. They wear the most drab, out-of-
>style clothes out there.
How many good-looking NT *women* are included in your sample? For a woman,
developing and using her looks is often just another skill -- one of those
abilities that NTs are so relentlessly self-critical about. I wear
utilitarian clothes in utilitarian circumstances: I'm sitting here right
now in a sweatsuit, because it's warm, comfortable, and there's nobody here
I need to impress. If I'm going to be in a situation where my looks can
work for me, though, I'm a perfectionist and I do go for the spectacular,
from make-up down to four-inch spike heels.
I wear clothes, make-up, jewelry, that I *like*, that I enjoy because of
their beauty. Keirsey doesn't say much about NTs and clothing, but he does
say that "enjoyment in the beauty of an object, pleasures of design and
building, pleasure in elegant functioning in possessions all motivate an
NT." (That "design and building" also applies to me, btw; I design and make
my non-utilitarian clothes.)
Plus, NTs are marked individualists and noted for not giving a damn what
anyone else thinks. I don't pay much attention to current styles and
fashions -- I create my own. And I'm keeping the fancy clothes and the high
heels, 'cause I like 'em. Nyah, nyah.
Keirsey, incidentally, types England's Elizabeth I as an NT -- which I, a
longtime devotee of Tudor history and the Tudor monarchs, would agree with.
And there have been few more spectacular clotheshorses in history than
Elizabeth. She used her appearance in a carefully calculated way, much as I
do. And as I see Servalan doing.
>As for SJs, you are wrong about that too. SJs like to be trendy too.
>It's just that they can't keep up with the fast-paced fashion style
>changes that SPs set.
Keirsey states that SJs are primarily concerned with the "utilitarian value
of property, tools, cars, clothes, and the like. Possessions should be
functional and without undue ostentation."
And, among the individual type profiles: "The clothes of an ISTJ tend to be
practical and durable rather than in the latest style or luxurious."
Hence, I see the SJ going for value and "appropriateness" rather than
style. Classic, not trendy, and certainly not flashy. And probably fond of
uniforms, whether military or a conservative business suit.
>Myers-Briggs is a theory that asses the personality preferences of
>normal people.
Well, heck, that's no fun -- you've just knocked Blake, Avon, Servalan and
Travis right out of the running. None of them was exactly well-balanced and
mentally healthy, after all. And I'd probably consider Servalan the sanest
of the four of them....
Come to think of it, what *is* a "normal" person?
--
- Lisa
<lcw@dallas.net>
<lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:18:42 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980208121733.00b91890@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Helen Krummenacker wrote:
>For example, Are you an extrovert or and introvert? is not an
>either/or question, because in certain situations, most people change
>from one to the other.
Your designation on the M-B scales isn't *intended* to be either/or, but to
express an overall personality preference -- and most people do have one.
All the letter does is indicate which side of the halfway point you fell
on. If you're near the 50% mark, one tendency will only predominate over
the other very weakly if at all; there will be many situations where you go
the other way. The closer you are to one end of the scale, the less
influence the other side has on you. For instance, I consistently test as
100% I. This would indicate that in almost all situations, I will react in
accordance with the Introvert side of that scale -- which is very true.
However, I only run about 60% J, making me a fairly weak J. And, sure
enough, there are quite a few cases where I will react more like a P than a
J. Overall, though, my personality is very accurately described by my INTJ
rating. Often eerily so.
The M-B system is also primarily descriptive, not prescriptive. You can
look at someone's type, preferably with their ratings on the four scales,
and get a general idea of their preferences and how they are likely to
function in some situations. You cannot, however, use it to determine that
a person *will* act in such-and-such a way in a given circumstance; there's
too much individual variation.
--
- Lisa
<lcw@dallas.net>
<lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:26:39 -0000
From: "Jenni-Alison" <jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-Id: <199802082026.VAA00594@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
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Can anyone come up with examples where Tarrant is particularly
unselfish in helping or rescuing the others when he could have saved
himself more easily? I was defending him as a heroic team player at
Pages Bar yesterday, but could come up with only one instance (Blake,
when Scorpio crashes) where he voluntarily put himself in danger to
help the others get away. His disapproval of Avon in Dawn of the Gods
when Avon is getting into the dodgy silver suit, seems to show that
he disaproves of an "every man for himself" attitude, but his actions
wouldn't have saved anyone, just stopped Avon from saving himself.
Apart from being protective of women in general(Cancer, Sand, Rescue
etc.), did Tarrant act Above and Beyond the Call of Duty?
Enquiring minds want to know!
Jenni
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:03:16 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: "jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com"@dial.pipex.com
CC: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <34DE1D94.19C@jps.net>
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Tarrant would like to think of himself as a hero, and if he had someone
to learn from, might have made one. Tarrant would have been a good
right-hand man to Blake, where he could sort of be a hero-in-training
for a while. He has noble ideas, I think, but doesn't have the
instincts, because Federation training doesn't really prepare you to be
heroic.
Avon, on the other hand, doesn't care much for the idea of heroism, and
yet he has an instinct for it. In "Horizon", we questions ORAC to prove
he doesn't _need_ the others to survive, then goes and follows them to a
place none of the others reported back from for long, in order to mount
a solo rescue. At other times, when he knows he's headed for a trap, he
tries to leave the others in safety, even if he has to threaten them
into hanging back.
Both men are basically more inclined to be heroic when the gains are
worth the risks. To risk yourself is one thing, to sacrifice yourself,
another thing. The # of people in jeopardy, the chances of failure, all
aspects are taken into account. Tarrant would risk himself to save the
rest of the crew, especially since if Avon _had_ taken the controls, the
ship wouldn't have held together long enough for Tarrant to reach the
teleport (at least, that _is_ how he argued Avon out of trying to switch
places). They are actually similiar in their behavior (only Avon is a
little more practical). But Tarrant claims the role of hero while often
rejecting the risks; Avon disclaims the role in spite of often indulging
in heroic behavior.
Avona
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:59:06 -0700
From: "John J. Doherty" <alijd@gemini.oscs.montana.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake as a terrorist
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980208145906.007cd950@gemini.oscs.montana.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:39 AM 2/7/98 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
>The latter quote seems to indicate that Blake, indeed, did have popular
>support, though of course he doesn't seem to have had logistical support
>at all, unless you count liasons with other rebel leaders such as Avalon.
The support Blake enjoyed always seemed rather vague to me. At first,
there was a rebel force, but they were few and far between because the
citizens were drugged into pacificity. Then there seemed to be support for
Blake building, which the Federation wished to suppress.
If Blake did not have popular support, which he did not seem to have at the
beginning, he was a terrorist. He was fighting to impose his beliefs on a
people that did not seem to want it. The drugs, of course, make one think
that if the people were allowed to think for themselves, they might just
support Blake.
Blake seemed to have the moral ambiguity of a terrorist, the confused logic
of trying to make actions that are blatantly immoral fit into your vision
of a better, more wonderful world after the Fall of the Nasty People.
-- John
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:17:58 GMT
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake as a terrorist
Message-Id: <23047.9802082217@bsauasb.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
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> From alijd@gemini.oscs.montana.edu Sun Feb 8 22:05:08 1998
> At 08:39 AM 2/7/98 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> >The latter quote seems to indicate that Blake, indeed, did have popular
> >support, though of course he doesn't seem to have had logistical support
> >at all, unless you count liasons with other rebel leaders such as Avalon.
>
> The support Blake enjoyed always seemed rather vague to me. At first,
> there was a rebel force, but they were few and far between because the
> citizens were drugged into pacificity. Then there seemed to be support for
> Blake building, which the Federation wished to suppress.
>
It seems that the Federation's hold on the systems far from Earth was fairly weak.
While Blake's around, the Feds are concerned about the outer planets breaking
away, and indeed they do just that after the Andromedan invasion. This suggests
that the drug/pacification program was only used on Earth and perhaps systems
close to Earth - presumably there were logistical problems involved in extending it
further, leading the Federation to try more imaginative solutions as seen in
"Countdown". Finally, in season 4, the Feds get pylene-50 - a cheap and cheerful
pacifier- and Avon is rightly concerned.
The upshot of this is that Blake's support was mainly in the outer worlds, where
the Federation's grip was weaker. He certainly must have substantial popular
sympathy for the Feds to be so worried about him.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:32:08 +0100 GMT
From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re Forbidden Planet
Message-Id: <29899558MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
Andy said: "My brother tells me that Jaqueline Pierce is signing
copies of a book on 28th February at Forbidden Planet in
London. Can anybody confirm this? I have no idea which book
it is."
Nicoline replied: "Not a book, but the first 2 tapes of the new
B7 video rerelease. She will ONLY be signing these, nothing
else (so you have to buy them first)."
But the first two tapes will contain episodes one to four and
Jaqueline wasn't in them.
Sadly I can't make this cos I'm going to be at Starfury. Is
anyone who is going willing to hand out Redemption flyers to
the people in the queue? Let me know and I'll get some to you.
cheers
Steve Rogerson
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
Make your own tribble! Buy a hamster and cut off its legs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:42:33 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake as a terrorist
Message-ID: <34DE42E9.1A14@jps.net>
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Re: Blake's support.
Also, the Alpha grades were not drugged as much, I think. Avon certainly
wouldn't be who he was if he'd been on the Federation's prozac all
along. Servalan certainly wasn't on anything. They were probably only
drugged in cases where there was some concern as to their pollitical
tendancies. Otherwise, the Federation knew that for the top minds to be
truely effective, they had to be clean.
The Alpha grades are most likely to be independent thinkers, too. In
most cases this will result in them going along with the status quo,
whether they like the politics or not, because rebellion seems
impractical. Even ones with liberal tendancies will keep their politics
as secret as possible, so as not to be reindoctorinated, etc.
So any support Blake may have on Earth would likely start with small,
secret groups of Alpha grades, who would try to sabotage the
Federation's drugging mechanisms, recruit more people, and wait for the
opportunity for practical movement. Blake probably hoped, and the
Federation feared, these individuals would be numerous, organized and
ready.
Avon would doubt they would be well organized enough to create a solid
power base in a very short period of time. When StarOne fell, there
would not be democracy, but anarchy, and anarchy leads right back to
dictatorships, more oppressive than before.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:28:03 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Web 1/2
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980208181804.10163A-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Judith Proctor wrote:
> I agree about the head, but I always thought the Decimas were quite well done.
It's the screeching that's worst but the look of the little
creatures, all dressed up like a salad bar on the loose, just makes
me vacillate between giggling and rolling my eyes in embarrassment for
them. And then there's the Munchkin similarity problem where one idea
leads to another and the next thing I know it's Blake and Avon in blue
gingham dresses and it's downhill from there...
> I think the Lost were from Auron, but were rejected by rest of the Auronar, In
> other word, if you want to use a fancy term, they weren't part of the 'soul of
> Auron'. Thus, from the Auronar, but not of them.
It sounds to me like what he's trying to say is that they
were from the planet (like they landed there and settled) but not
part of the race indigenous to the planet.
> Is this the episode where Gareth injured a leg during filming?
I don't know...the only episode-specific stories I remember are
the hedge incident from "Pressure Point" and the hill rolling incident
which is either "Hostage" or "The Keeper" depending on whose telling the
story.
> The Web has always been an episode that I count among my favourites. Partly
> for the Avon-Blake interaction and partly because the Decimas (to me at any
> rate) were one of the series' better aliens.
I think the idea was good but the execution painful, as executions
are wont to be.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu htp://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
"Fly, my monkeys! Fly!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:38:58 +0100 (MET)
From: N van den Berg <nicoline.van.den.berg@tip.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Forbidden Planet
Message-Id: <m0y1gJO-001W0DC@helium.tip.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Steve said:
>But the first two tapes will contain episodes one to four and
>Jaqueline wasn't in them.
That's what I thought, but it's what the Forbidden Planet posters and flyers
said when I was in London last week (exactly one Saturday before the Page's
Bar meeting boohoo).
>Sadly I can't make this cos I'm going to be at Starfury.
Very Jealous. How about a report (maybe on the Spin List?). I wish I could
go there, but as I'm already going to Neutral Zone & Deliverance it's
financially impossible.
Nicoline
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:37:07 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake as a terrorist
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980208182814.10163B-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, John J. Doherty wrote:
> The support Blake enjoyed always seemed rather vague to me. At first,
> there was a rebel force, but they were few and far between because the
> citizens were drugged into pacificity. Then there seemed to be support for
> Blake building, which the Federation wished to suppress.
Resistance is, in fact, widespread. Avalon says there are "30
planets in this sector alone" defying the Federation; we're told in "The
Way Back" that the outer worlds are demanding more autonomy and that
dissidence on Earth is growing; we know from "Voice from the Past" that
many of the planetary governors are ready to join a tame coup if they can
do it under the guise of legality; the massacres cited in "Trial" and
"Seek-Locate-Destroy" indicate rebellions and we see that other planets,
like Albian and Horizon, want their independence and are ready to fight
for it because they have no choice. There are also the groups led by
Kasabi and Shivan and the uprising led by Hal Mellanby. Blake is not
acting in a vacuum, he's part of wide-spread pattern of rebellion that
could become a full-blown revolution with a little push, hence the
importance (to all rebels, in the history of resistance to the Federation
as laid out in "Pressure Point") of destroying Central Control/Star One.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
"Oil can what?"
------------------------------
Date: 8 Feb 1998 16:35:20 -0800
From: "de Leon.Berta E." <berta@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon/Vila v Paul/Michael
Message-ID: <n1325166657.77905@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
> Fran wrote:
> And Michael is much better looking than Paul. And looks more
> intelligent, too.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
(sorry, but sometimes a clishe' can still be useful)
> Julia Jones wrote:
> Of course, this is the sort of thing that is partly down to personal
> taste, so there's no reason why we shouldn't both be right :-)
Exactly!!!
I disagree with Fran's comment because, to me, Avon (Paul) is the most beautiful
man in the universe. I adore him (them) absolutely. But that doesn't mean I
can say Fran is wrong, because it's a matter of taste.
Unfortunately, I can't comment on their acting ability because I've never seen
any of them in anything but B7. But, if I'm just going by what I see in B7,
then I have to say Paul is the better actor. I admit that my opinion may be
influenced by my complete adulation...so, it comes back again to personal taste.
I agree wholeheartedly with Wendy's lovely post. Particularly the
following:
>Avon was the bad guy, but by virtue of sheer good looks , charm and
>some wonderful dialogue, witty sharp some devastating stunts, your
>all round action hero, he was the one all the women were going to
>fall in love with and forgive him anything...even killing Blake
><grin>
Beautifully put, Wendy. ;)
Berta
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:15:37 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY
Message-ID: <19980208.171139.9311.6.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
Judith wrote:
Hm. Don't think I can claim Gareth as good-looking. He's beautiful; I
could
happily look at him for hours, but what I see as beautiful certainly
isn't going
to be every woman's cup of tea.
<contented sighs>
(There are some pictures that capture it
though. I've got one on the web page from 'Merlin' and in this picture
he's
just looking into the distance. You get the impression there's been a
major
battle with lots of people killed.
<zipping to Judith's web page AGAIN>
That picture is gorgeous - I had to remove
it from my desk because it was too distracting when I was working!)
<I feel much the same about the picture on page 28 of "B7 the Inside
Story.">
Judith My dear we are soul mates.
Penny
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:32:02 +1100 (EST)
From: Lisa Darby <Lisa.Darby@anu.edu.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon/Vila v Paul/Michael
Message-Id: <199802090432.PAA04417@anugpo.anu.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:00 PM 7/02/98 +0000, Wendy wrote:
>
>reading the posts from Julia and Fran etc regarding who is the better
>actor..
>
>I have to disagree with whichever one said that Michael is the better
>actor, i think that Michael gave overall the most consistent
>performances through the four seasons of B7, he is a fantastic actor,
>however so are Paul and Gareth .
>
>I think that the fact that Paul plays so many 'baddie' parts is
>because he finds it easier to portray that kind of character,it
>appears to me that he feels comfortable with that so therefore the
>performances are better although he gets typecast in that kind of
>role, to a lesser extent i think Judith had found the same type of
>typecasting with roles whilst doing her research on Gareth.
>
I think I'm going to have to chime in here - I was in London in 1985 (for
the Bosworth Quincentenary for all you Ricardians out there) and had the
extreme good fortune to see both Paul and Michael in stage plays. Paul was
in "Run for your wife" playing the policeman and apart from one occasion
where he gave the lead actors the "Avon look" for being foolish, I thought
he did an excellent job of playing straight man in a comedy. As I said apart
from that "look" he was totally removed from Avon (not that I didn't melt
all over the theatre seat anyway every time he spoke!!). Michael was playing
one of the "Memphis Mafia" to Martin Shaw's Elvis in "Are you lonesome
tonight?" and again did an excellent job and was nothing like Vila. I
actually got to meet Michael outside the theatre afterwards and he was just
lovely - totally amazed that there were fans there waiting to see him and
not Martin.
All in all I think they are both excellent actors, well able to rise above
stereotyping.
Lisa
Lisa Darby
Librarian
North Australia Research Unit
PO Box 41321
Casuarina NT 0811
Australia
lisa.darby@anu.edu.au
Ph : +61 8 89220031
Fax : +61 8 89220055
http://online.anu.edu.au/naru/welcome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:25:49 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Ads
Message-ID: <34DEA16D.8C61E696@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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This has nothing to do with B7, but has anyone else noticed the Kokanee ad on CBUT
(Canadian TV). It's part of the Olympic promos. It features Godizilla swallowing
then splitting out a nasty tasting snowboarder. It's brilliant! It is just about the
best thing shown on the Olympics so far.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:50:39 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Web 1/2
Message-ID: <34DEA73F.689F76DF@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Was Blake's hiding of the energy cells under the moss at his feet lame or
what?
Clearly in this episode Blake had a lot to learn about duplicity. But did he
ever get better at it? I don't really think so -- he was always one to deal
with people and situations directly and forthrightly. If he had understood
underhandedness better, he might not have been killed by his best ally.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 20:14:43 +1000
From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris <parallax@wire.net.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's manipulativeness
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980209201443.007ac180@wire.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Julia said:
>That's the impression I get from several of the things Blake does - he's
>sincere, but he's also doing it for effect. Which I see as manipulation,
As I see it, every human being everywhere in the world says things - both
truth and lies of varying intensity - for specific effect at some time or
another. It is human nature to present facts, opinions, points of view and
even mere anecdotes with some slant or other to either convince the
listener to do something(do the dishes, walk the dog) or believe something
(I am a cleverer person than everyone I work with). It's rarely done with
conscious, malicious effort (though some people are very good at it -
anyone in public life, for example).
Thank heavens none of us are scrutinised as closely or regularly in our
every action and word as poor Blake is.
Of course he can be manipulative. So is Vila (or had you forgotten the
pretend-drunk scene so that he could get someone else to go into danger to
fix the engine).
Avon is, on the whole, lousy with people and hyper sensitive to other
people trying to influence him. Of course *he'd* pick up on Blake's trying
his best to get co-operation from him and label it with the most
calculating thing he can think of.
Dear boy. He's such an idiot. :-)
Narrelle
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris
parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax
"Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit;
by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:08:37 -0000
From: "Jenni-Alison" <jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Space City" <space-city@world.std.com>,
"Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Altrincham
Message-Id: <199802091207.NAA07874@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello All
Are there any Fans located anywhere nr Altrincham, nr Manchester? I
will be spending a week on a training course from 23rd Feb,
mouldering in a hotel, living on the lists 'till all hours to get my
fix of B7, and hungering for the warmth of human companionship. I
would love to meet with any fans who live around there for a drink.
If you do live there, and would like to meet up, please email me
Thanks
Jenni
Jenni-Alison@dial.pipex.com.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:00:14 +1100
From: Fran Myers <algemy@ozemail.com.au>
To: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Paul's acting
Message-ID: <34DEFDDE.4AC3@ozemail.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Helen sez: > Paul's acting is very
> subtle, and a person has to be good at reading faces in order to
> understand him. To many people Avon is an enigma, but his eyes reveal
> everything.
I would have to disagree totally with this. Paul is about the least
subtle actor on tv (well, Brit tv). He acts as though he was on stage,
where actions have to be exaggerated, and facial expression enlarged.
He's a real Ham.
Fran M
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:21:55 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's manipulativeness
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980209082007.27716B-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris wrote:
> Julia said:
> >That's the impression I get from several of the things Blake does - he's
> >sincere, but he's also doing it for effect. Which I see as manipulation,
>
> As I see it, every human being everywhere in the world says things - both
> truth and lies of varying intensity - for specific effect at some time or
> another. It is human nature to present facts, opinions, points of view and
> even mere anecdotes with some slant or other to either convince the
> listener to do something(do the dishes, walk the dog) or believe something
> (I am a cleverer person than everyone I work with). It's rarely done with
> conscious, malicious effort (though some people are very good at it -
> anyone in public life, for example).
>
> Thank heavens none of us are scrutinised as closely or regularly in our
> every action and word as poor Blake is.
>
> Of course he can be manipulative. So is Vila (or had you forgotten the
> pretend-drunk scene so that he could get someone else to go into danger to
> fix the engine).
>
> Avon is, on the whole, lousy with people and hyper sensitive to other
> people trying to influence him. Of course *he'd* pick up on Blake's trying
> his best to get co-operation from him and label it with the most
> calculating thing he can think of.
>
> Dear boy. He's such an idiot. :-)
>
> Narrelle
This is so good and so on the money I wish I'd said it.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
B.I.T.C.H. "It's not just what I do, it's who I am."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:55:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Paul's acting
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980209134454.25488A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Fran Myers wrote:
> Helen sez: > Paul's acting is very
> > subtle, and a person has to be good at reading faces in order to
> > understand him. To many people Avon is an enigma, but his eyes reveal
> > everything.
>
> I would have to disagree totally with this. Paul is about the least
> subtle actor on tv (well, Brit tv). He acts as though he was on stage,
> where actions have to be exaggerated, and facial expression enlarged.
>
> He's a real Ham.
You're both right!
I sometimes find Paul's performances frustrating. Sometimes he shows nice
subtle touches, then a few minutes later he's chewing the scenery. This
latter behaviour seemed to get more pronounced as the series went on.
He is often very good at bringing a lot out of the lines, in terms of
playing the subtext rather than the text, and that's part of what makes
Avon such an intriguing character. But in terms of acting skill, I would
rate both Michael and Gareth higher (and Jackie, come to that - she even
makes her scenes in "Animals" watchable).
I was going to put forward a theory that Paul's lightest, most subtle
acting happened when he had Gareth to play off - but then I remembered
the closing scene of "Blake", which rather knackered that idea.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:15:32 +1100
From: "Roger The Shrubber" <darrenro@ozonline.com.au>
To: "B7 Main List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] role playing
Message-Id: <199802091516.CAA09976@budapest.ozonline.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fran wrote
Michael is an ACTOR, and I can easily imagine him playing Avon. It would
be a different Avon, of course, but I'm sure it would be just as
convincing.
*****
Take away the stoop, shoulders back, put some authority into the voice,
different hair (spiky?), maybe add a lite beard, different clothes, and MK
could easily play an Avon character.
Soolin likewise could become Servalan with some tweaking
___________________________________
from Darren r ..... Comments are welcome !
powerplay@cheerful.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:27:35 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Paul's acting
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980209102121.22226F-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Iain Coleman wrote:
> I was going to put forward a theory that Paul's lightest, most subtle
> acting happened when he had Gareth to play off - but then I remembered
> the closing scene of "Blake", which rather knackered that idea.
8-) IMO, in the series, both Gareth and Paul do their best acting
when the other has the spotlight. Blake listening to Avon and Grant, Avon
supporting Blake in "Pressure Point," for example.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
B.I.T.C.H. "It's not just what I do, it's who I am."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:06:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] role playing
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980209155053.4539B-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Roger The Shrubber wrote:
> Fran wrote
> Michael is an ACTOR, and I can easily imagine him playing Avon. It would
> be a different Avon, of course, but I'm sure it would be just as
> convincing.
> *****
> Take away the stoop, shoulders back, put some authority into the voice,
> different hair (spiky?), maybe add a lite beard, different clothes, and MK
> could easily play an Avon character.
I'm sure that if you gave MK the script for "Spacefall" and told him to
play Avon as powerful, domineering and ruthless he would do so very well.
What got me rambling about this was wondering what MK would do if given
the lines and left to his own devices. It's impossible to say for sure, of
course, but I imagined a much less dominant, more shadowy Avon - and I
think that would have worked well, though it would probably end up with
Tarrant being more in charge after Blake went AWOL.
>
> Soolin likewise could become Servalan with some tweaking
Now this I just can't see.
(brief pause while Iain tries to stop thinking about tweaking Soolin and
Servalan)
Right, now where was I?
Ah yes, I really don't think Glynis Barber had anything like the power and
presence of Jackie Pearce.
Still, it's fun to imagine swapping actors around. Steven Pacey as Travis?
A bit too young and good-looking, I suppose.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:58:09 -0000
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] role playing
Message-Id: <E0y1wef-0006vn-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Roger wrote:
> Take away the stoop, shoulders back, put some authority into the voice,
> different hair (spiky?), maybe add a lite beard, different clothes, and
MK
> could easily play an Avon character.
If you watch the Doctor Who story The Sunmakers (not to everybody's taste,
but I like it) you can start to that Keating could play someone like Avon,
in said story is again playing a rebel, but this time a meaner one (think
dirty appearance, short scruffy beard), he's a v. good actor, his
Sunmakers' character has no trace of the bumbling, lovable Vila.
Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith
'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor
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End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #39
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