From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #41
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/41
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 41
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
[B7L] BBC re-release
Re: [B7L] BBC re-release
Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
ADMIN: Trouble (was: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?)
Re: [B7L] Re: Where are People?
[B7L] The Cult Files
Re: [B7L] Re: Where are People?
Re: [B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY
Re: [B7L] The Cult Files
[B7L] Blake's popular support
Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:09:58 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <199802091609.LAA02847@yfn.ysu.edu>
Avona wrote:
>Tarrant would like to think of himself as a hero, and if he had someone
>to learn from, might have made one. Tarrant would have been a good
>right-hand man to Blake, where he could sort of be a hero-in-training
>for a while. He has noble ideas, I think, but doesn't have the
>instincts, because Federation training doesn't really prepare you to be
>heroic.
<giggle> Doesn't have the instincts for it? I must have missed
those episodes when he was cowering back in the corner. Tarrant's
bravery bordered on stupidity at times. This is the man who ran
TOWARD the bomb in "Warlord."
> But Tarrant claims the role of hero while often
>rejecting the risks; Avon disclaims the role in spite of often indulging
>in heroic behavior.
When did Tarrant claim the role of hero? I never heard him make any
such proclamation. But he did proclaim a set of values that I would
call heroic, such as when he told Avon in "Children of Auron": "As
long as Cally is part of this crew, she has full call on your loyality
and support, no matter what the risks."
If anyone bestowed the title of hero on Tarrant, it was Avon, who
labels Tarrant as "brave" in "Traitor."
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:55:28 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <199802091555.KAA02197@yfn.ysu.edu>
Jenni asked:
>Can anyone come up with examples where Tarrant is particularly
>unselfish in helping or rescuing the others when he could have saved
>himself more easily? I was defending him as a heroic team player at
>Pages Bar yesterday, but could come up with only one instance (Blake,
>when Scorpio crashes) where he voluntarily put himself in danger to
>help the others get away.
This is a busy morning and I'm going to have to rush out a reply.
But it's a hard question to answer because I see Tarrant's
behavior as so unselfish that I can't imagine needing to come to
his defense.
Volcano: Tarrant didn't need to go back to rescue Cally. Avon
leaves the choice up to Tarrant. And in fact Tarrant is shot
in the leg because he chose to go after Cally.
City at the Edge of the World: Avon wants to leave when it is
growing dark. Tarrant argues they should stay and find Vila.
Children of Auron: It's Tarrant who argues that they should go
to Auron. He (and the others) teleport to the planet, exposing
themselves to the deadly virus, to try to help Cally's people.
Rumours of Death: Tarrant teleports into the cell to rescue
Avon. He's the first to speak up that they need to go with Avon
to offer back-up. He acts as decoy to distract the armed guards,
allowing the others to overpower them. He wants to go back to the
cellar for Avon when Avon has been left behind.
Ultraworld: Going to Ultraworld to rescue Cally. Staying on
Ultraworld to rescue Cally and Avon.
Moloch: Bursting into where Avon and Dayna are held prisoner
to rescue them.
Death-Watch: Risks his life not only for the crew but to prevent
a Teal-Vandor War.
Terminal: Despite having just had his life threatened by Avon,
insists on going after him to provide back-up. If Tarrant
was truly the selfish type, he would have stayed on the ship
where it was safe and hoped Avon didn't return (with Avon's
message and precautions suggesting that was a good possibility).
Rescue: Again, he's the one to act as the decoy when he and
Avon "sneak up" on Dorian. And we're told that he was injured
in the underground base while trying to rescue Cally.
Traitor: Stays on Heloit, against Avon's orders, to help Hunda
and company.
Games: He's the one who teleports down to get the wounded,
presumably in danger, Gerren.
Blake: It's not just staying with Scorpio. Later, he's out=
numbered and out-gunned by Deva, Blake, and Arlen, but makes
a break for freedom because he thinks his shipmates are
walking into a trap. Returns to the center of the tracking
gallery to try to get Avon moving to a safer location.
These are just the most blatant examples of his concern for
his shipmates (and other people). To counter the question of
whether Tarrant was a team player, when did we ever see him
put his own safety first? I can only think of one incident
that might vaguely qualify for that. In Dawn, they don't
go back for Cally. But my thought is that Tarrant was putting
the needs of the many first. He was working to get Avon,
Dayna, and Vila back to the ship. I think he would have gone
back for Cally at that point, if there was any chance of
getting her out alive in time for all of them to get away.
But Cally had shown up by then.
Which isn't to say that Tarrant was the only "hero" of the
lot. I think they were all team players. Even Avon, who put
on a show of not being one, and despite Avon's selfish
behavior in "Orbit," an action I believe he later regretted.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:47:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] BBC re-release
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980210194252.20103A-100000@mobius>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I've been offline for a while, so apols if I'm repeating what everyone
else has said umpteen times before, but...
I phoned the BBC this morning (trying to get hold of copies of "Blake" and
"The Way Back"), and apparently the series is going to be re-released in
the UK on the 2nd of March. Not a bad bit of news, is it?
Just in case anyone didn't know.
Cheers,
Rob
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rob Clother Research Assistant
Department of Applied Mathematics Office: 10:21d
University of Leeds Phone: +44 113 233 5182
Leeds LS2 9JT E-mail: rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk
Web Site: http://www.amsta.leeds.ac.uk/~rob
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:26:55 +0100 (MET)
From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
To: rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk (Rob Clother)
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (mailing list)
Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC re-release
Message-Id: <199802102026.VAA06260@pampus.gns.getronics.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is not a joke to get our hopes up right?!?!?!?
I'm trying to get ep 52 foor years now!!!
Jeroen
>
>
>
> I've been offline for a while, so apols if I'm repeating what everyone
> else has said umpteen times before, but...
>
> I phoned the BBC this morning (trying to get hold of copies of "Blake" and
> "The Way Back"), and apparently the series is going to be re-released in
> the UK on the 2nd of March. Not a bad bit of news, is it?
>
> Just in case anyone didn't know.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> Rob Clother Research Assistant
> Department of Applied Mathematics Office: 10:21d
> University of Leeds Phone: +44 113 233 5182
> Leeds LS2 9JT E-mail: rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk
>
> Web Site: http://www.amsta.leeds.ac.uk/~rob
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:25:49 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
Message-Id: <l03130300b1066672a1a3@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Heather Smith wrote:
[snip]
[Loki] He's almost what
>> one would expect if Avon and Vila were merged...
Pat P:
>what a wonderful story idea. anyone?
The first thing that springs to mind is a teleport accident a la Voyager (I
saw that ep last night!*). There must be a more original plot device out
there - anyone? :-) I'd offer to write it but I've got older story ideas
duking it out with real-world concerns for my attention right now :-/
Further to the Vila as a God thread - I don't know much about Chinese
mythology, perhaps someone who does can enlighten us on the similarities
between Vila and Monkey? I'm not sure if Monkey is a god, but I have this
impression of a mischievous character loaded down with some real
responsibility all of a sudden.
ttfn, Nicola
*The one where Tuvok and Neelix are merged in the transporter beam 'cos of
some weird plant they were carrying at the time.
---
Nicola Collie nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
Dunedin, New Zealand
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement "Avon's gadget works," seems to lack a certain
style."
All universes are real - some are just more real than others.
Put another way:
All universes are imaginary - some are more imaginary than others.
Alternatively:
All universes are real - some are more imaginary than others.
Um, actually:
All universes are imaginary - some are just more real than others.
Wibble.
pvvzzchk *pop*
------------------------------
Date: 10 Feb 1998 21:58:36 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: ADMIN: Trouble (was: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?)
Message-ID: <usafbzqirn.fsf@sara.lysator.liu.se>
ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) writes:
> Piffle. I sent two posts on this thread yesterday morning. They've
> not come through and they haven't bounced back as undeliverable.
Lysator's mail machine suffered a disk crash, so we had mail turned
off while we repaired and restored. Everything should be back to
normal now.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:08:12 GMT
From: dfreeman@GFspubn.ttsl.co.uk (Dan Freeman)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, Fr@GFspubn.ttsl.co.uk
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Where are People?
Message-Id: <199802102108.VAA02418@cpubn61.co.uk>
> Hi, I'm a newcomer too, and also would like to know where people are based,
> both in the US and UK. I currently live in northern California, but I'm
> British and try to get back there as often as I can (I'm originally from
> Bedfordshire).
>
> I've been a fan of B7 ever since it was first shown. My favourite is, of
> course Avon.
>
> Where is the best place to get B7 videos from on the west coast,
> preferably, if not the US in general, and what price do they run? I'm
> looking for Series 3 and 4 mainly as I have none of those.
>
> Jay
>
>
Jay,
I used to live in North California, in Mountain View. I managed to get
Blakes 7 videos in Tower Records on San Antonio Road (Palo Alto) and
at the Virgin Megastore in San Francisco. Prices are about $10->$18.
Currently I am based in the SE of Englan (Brighton). Are there any
other Blakes 7 fans in my area?? Or perhaps even a fan club?
===========
Dan Freeman
===========
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:23:24 -0600 (CST)
From: "G. Robbins" <robbins@graceland.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The Cult Files
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980210140635.15144B-100000@inet-ux.graceland.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I just wanted to inform anyone interested in theme songs of the CDs
(contains two CDs)entitled "The Cult Files" which contains many TV and
movie song
themes that relate to movies and television shows in the realm of cult
classics (obviously). I myself discovered and purchased a
copy Monday, because it contains the theme songs for Blake's 7, Doctor
Who, and The
X-Files (and because it was my 20th birthday and I felt like
splurging..had to get that in somewhere!).
The Blake's 7 theme song was not the original one but a
reproduction by Mark Ayers of Dudley Simpson's extended version. I think
it is a very
nice reproduction, and that's pretty good praise considering I hate
reproductions of anything. This may sound silly, but the bulk of the song
is actually something you could dance to....it's got that heavy
bass beat that I like. The other songs on it are very well done, as well.
Since I bought mine here in the States, I don't know how available it
might be overseas. I got mine at a "Best Buy" store, and it was in
the soundtrack section under "C".
Grace Robbins
robbins@inet-ux.graceland.edu
http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:25:29 EST
From: RCobbett@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Where are People?
Message-ID: <ccbfe4ad.34e0c5cb@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>> other Blakes 7 fans in my area??
I wish. I went to San Francisco last year and loved the place.
- Richard
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:00:39 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY
Message-ID: <34E13077.3A46@dial.pipex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
penny_kjelgaard@juno.com (or was it Judith - I lost track) wrote:
> <I feel much the same about the picture on page 28 of "B7 the Inside
> Story.">
>
Sure you don't mean the picture on page 29?
Julie Horner
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:54:06 +0000
From: Reuben <reuben@reuben.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Cult Files
Message-ID: <34E0781C.5143@reuben.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
G. Robbins wrote:
>
> I just wanted to inform anyone interested in theme songs of the CDs
> (contains two CDs)entitled "The Cult Files" which contains many TV and
> movie song
> themes that relate to movies and television shows in the realm of cult
> classics (obviously). I myself discovered and purchased a
> copy Monday, because it contains the theme songs for Blake's 7, Doctor
> Who, and The
> X-Files (and because it was my 20th birthday and I felt like
> splurging..had to get that in somewhere!).
> The Blake's 7 theme song was not the original one but a
> reproduction by Mark Ayers of Dudley Simpson's extended version. I think
> it is a very
> nice reproduction, and that's pretty good praise considering I hate
> reproductions of anything. This may sound silly, but the bulk of the song
> is actually something you could dance to....it's got that heavy
> bass beat that I like. The other songs on it are very well done, as well.
> Since I bought mine here in the States, I don't know how available it
> might be overseas. I got mine at a "Best Buy" store, and it was in
> the soundtrack section under "C".
>
Yeah, the Blake's re-mix is nice. But, do not buy this CD for the Who
Theme. It is a very bad Mark Aryes remix. Unfortunately the only bad
track on the disk.
Ohh, I also got mine at Best Buy.
Reuben
reuben@reuben.net
http://www.reuben.net/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:51:15 +1000
From: Pat Fenech <P.Fenech@library.usyd.edu.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake's popular support
Message-Id: <199802102352.AAA18627@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello everyone:)
Such an interesting discussion evolving about Blake and I cannot resist
joining in :)
Particularly interesting, at least for me, is the question of whether or not
he had any popular support for what he was doing. And so I thought to have a
word, or several, about it :) as thinking about it I seem to recall there
being some evidence within the series that he did. And to test my memory I
went looking to see what is to be found... and discovered quite a bit.
True enough we did not see scenes of the citizenry rioting through the domes
demanding Blake for President. Nor did we see so very much about the
rebellion. But... there is a lot of material scattered throughout the series
which suggests that Blake's opposition to the Federation was of some
significance; that it was not without support, nor did it pass unnoticed.
The very first episode has quite a lot of detail about the opposition to the
Federation.
======================
FOSTER: Four years ago, there was a good deal of discontent with the
Administration. There were *many* activist groups. But the only one that
really meant anything was led by Roj Blake ...
BLAKE: Why are you telling me this?
FOSTER: Because we are preparing to move again. And if it were known you
were with us, we'd get more support...
FOSTER: ... You've probably heard that the settlers in the Outer Worlds are
rightly demanding greater autonomy. If we can help unify their voices, the
Administration will have to listen. The security forces are overstretched.
If we can step up our campaign of civil disobedience here on Earth, they
will have to concentrate their forces here, and that will give the Outer
Worlds much more freedom of action.. Now we must aim to have at least one
world declare its independence within the next two years...
TARRANT: We've got to cause as much disruption as possible in the food
manufacturing division. There's nothing more effective than ration cuts to
cause unrest. I've worked out methods by which this disruption can be
implemented.
========================
This does seem to suggest that there was considerable, organised, opposition
to the Federation on Earth, an opposition with detailed plans for furthering
their aims. It also suggests just how much importance these dissidents
placed upon having Blake associate himself with their plans. Important
enough to risk trying to re-recruit him even when they knew what had been
done to his mind and were aware that he might possibly betray them.
Then there is the Federation's *very* nervous reaction to discovering that
Blake was showing rebellious tendencies again. So worried were they that
they feel compelled to conceive a messy and discoverable conspiracy in order
to be rid of him and more importantly perhaps, to attempt to destroy his
reputation utterly with the charges of child molestation. Morag suggests the
Federation's thinking as to the necessity for such measures.
=========================
MORAG: ... he's a symbol of opposition to the administration.' ... His death
could be used by the dissidents. They need a hero. Alive or dead Blake could
be it.
=========================
And it seems that the Federation were not worrying needlessly. For once
Blake is free of them again, has 'Liberator' and begins 'fighting back' he
does become a major problem.
==============================
[Federation Space Headquarters. Servalan's office.]
RONTANE: Which is why the President has asked me to come here personally;
to express his own very grave concern over this matter. The destruction of
the communications center has far-reaching political consequences.
Controllers from some of the Outer Planets, whose loyalty to the Federation
is, uh, delicately balanced, have been openly critical of the
Administration's defense system. There are even one or two radical voices
that speak of withdrawal from the Federation.
BERCOL: My department has done all in its power to suppress information
about Blake and his actions -- there is a total blackout on all reports
concerning him -- but still the stories get out. They spread by word of
mouth, by whispers, by rumour; each time the story is told it is elaborated
upon. Any damage to the Federation is attributed to Blake. The smallest
incident is exaggerated out of all proportion until it becomes a major
event. Blake is becoming a legend. His name is a rallying call for
malcontents of all persuasions. He must be stopped.
SERVALAN: Gentlemen: I share the President's grave concern. And I am aware
of the danger should Blake become a legend. But let us keep this matter in
its correct perspective. It is true that Blake has command of a superb space
vehicle, but he is just a man, backed by a handful of criminals, and that is
all. He is not invulnerable, nor is he superhuman. He is just a man, who has
been extremely lucky to evade capture --- so far.
RONTANE: With respect, Supreme Commander, we are aware of the facts. They
are simply that with all the resources that the Federation can call upon,
this one vulnerable, lucky man is still free to cause havoc.
SERVALAN: You have some criticism of my handling of this matter, Secretary
Rontane?
RONTANE: Not at all, I hoped merely to convey the concern shown by the
President when he briefed me for this visit.
BERCOL: It would be very helpful to all of us if we knew --- if you could
indicate what action you will NOW be taking against Blake.
SERVALAN: Very well, Councillor Bercol. You may tell the President that I
am appointing a Space Commander to take absolute control of this matter. He
will be exclusively concerned to seek, locate, and destroy Blake.
BERCOL: Oh, excellent, excellent.
RONTANE: May we know the officer's name?
SERVALAN: Yes, you may. Space Commander Travis....
SERVALAN: Responsibility is something I have never evaded, Secretary.
RONTANE: Ah. May I then tell the President that you are confident that the
Blake problem will be solved, soon?
SERVALAN: You may tell him to prepare a statement announcing that Blake has
been eliminated.
BERCOL: Thank you for your reassurances, Supreme Commander.
================================
This suggests much. Firstly, it suggests that Blake's activities have been
a cause for concern to the Federation for some time. It further suggests
that the President of the Terran Federation is worried enough about Blake to
be sending his minions to demand better results from Space Command. It
perhaps signifies the depth of the concern that the Federation's ruler is
chancing offending the military with this criticism of their effectiveness.
You would imagine that such a risk would not be taken lightly by a
dictatorship which depended upon the repressive capacity of its soldiery
such as the Federation seems to have been.
Within this exchange there are also suggestions as to just why the President
was so concerned. Blake is becoming a legend. A news blackout has not
prevented the stories of Blake's exploits from spreading to obviously
receptive ears. This suggests strongly that there was popular interest in
Blake and his opposition to the Federation and further that the interest was
positive and large enough to be of some considerable worry to the
Administration. Also interesting are the lengths they are all prepared to go
to stop Blake. Servalan seems willing to provide Travis with whatever he
feels he needs to 'seek-locate-destroy' Blake and as the series progressed
we saw that she continued to do so.
A tiny glimpse of the people who were listening to the tales of Blake's
exploits and passing them on is provided by this exchange between Travis and
Avalon:
===============================
AVALON: Every year more people defy the Federation, thirty planets in this
sector alone, and others will follow -- many others.
TRAVIS: Yes. Well, you'll tell us about those, won't you? Their leaders,
locations, their plans. I'm sure we'll be able to convince them that loyalty
to the Federation is after all in their best interests.
AVALON: I know enough about these machines to realize that I will tell you
everything. You will murder hundreds of people, maybe thousands. But you
won't end the opposition, you'll never end it.
==================================
Not just bravado from Avalon, for try as they did the Federation could not
put a stop to Blake nor it seems to the word of his deeds spreading. So that
eventually Servalan finds herself confronting another Councillor - this one
somewhat more senior, it seems to be implied ,who is voicing similar but now
even more anxious concerns than Bercol and Rontane.
===================================
JOBAN: Some members of the council are concerned that many of our citizens
now know of Blake's activities, and those of the renegade Travis.
SERVALAN: But there have been no public spacecasts on either Travis or Blake.
JOBAN: People talk, Servalan. There's no way of stopping them.
SERVALAN: This is a major breach of security. The punishment is total. Who
are these people who have been talking? I want their names, Councilor.
JOBAN: All sorts of citizens from Alphas to labor grades know of Blake's
defiance of the Federation. They talk of him as a sort of...hero, many of them.
SERVALAN: What rubbish.
JOBAN: His men impede progress, and more importantly order. Order,
Servalan. It is all that matters.
SERVALAN: I do not need you to remind me of that...
JOBAN: The council ask, "Where is Blake's head?" And we've no answer.
SERVALAN: You shall have it.
JOBAN: The answer, or his head?
SERVALAN: Both.
JOBAN: Good. I would not like to think I might have been wrong in my choice.
=====================================
Again the clear impression given from this is the concern of the Federation
hierarchy about the effect Blake's exploits are having upon the citizenry.
Joban is obliquely threatening Servalan with loss of her position if she is
not more effective in dealing with Blake, serious stuff! (you wonder if this
sort of pressure did not contribute much to her eventual decision to stage a
coup against the civilian government) That Blake was a seriously
destabilising influence seems clear and while it's not spelt out exactly
where the people doing the talking were the suggestion seems to be that it
was on Earth and throughout the worlds ruled by the Federation. There is
also the extremely interesting suggestion here of the extent of the interest
in, and approval of, Blake through all stratas of society - from the Alphas
to the labour grades. You would imagine that the Federation might have
considerable cause to be worried.
There is some evidence of the particular of the generalities Joban mentioned
to Servalan when Blake goes to the aid of a planet which is attempting to
throw off the yoke of Federation dominance, Albian.
=====================================
CAUDER: Don't move. Now who are you?
BLAKE: I'm Blake. This is Avon and Vila.
CAUDER: Blake? [He lowers his gun] You mean the Blake who's been giving the
Federation so much trouble?
BLAKE: We've certainly been trying and from what we see here, you've been
doing the same thing.
CAUDER: Enters with Grant] Blake, this is Grant.
GRANT: Good to meet you. [They shake hands]
BLAKE: And you. We've been hearing about your strikes against the Federation.
GRANT: You've been hitting them pretty hard, too. You keep it up, you'll
put us out of business.
======================================
Here we hear the interest and approval for what Blake has been doing
expressed by both Grant and Cauder, evidence of just how far and wide
Blake's fame has spread.
Then there is 'Voice from the past' with all it suggests about how important
Blake is to the scheme of things in the rebellion. Mainly it seems because
of the popular support for him personally.
======================================
LE GRAND: My homage to you.
BLAKE: Mine to you, Governor.
LE GRAND: No. It is to you only.
BLAKE: I don't understand.
LE GRAND: Did not the Arbiter General explain? For years now, the Arbiter
General and I have prepared for this moment. He gathering evidence of the
Administration's infamies, while I lobbied the support of my fellow
governors. However, we could not challenge and discredit the Administration
until we had found an alternative leadership, capable of uniting all factions.
BLAKE: Well, you, Governor.
LE GRAND: No. He who leads must be from Earth. Someone of renowned
integrity, someone who has become a legend of hope to the great mass of the
oppressed. A messiah.
===================================
If there was any doubt about a popular basis of support for Blake this
surely suggests otherwise - '...someone who has become a legend of hope to
the great mass of the oppressed.' seems to me to be saying say that there
was a vast reservoir of discontent waiting to find a focus, which it did -
in Blake. Of course there is much more to this than the simplicity of Le
Grand's statement but I think she at least believed it to be the truth of
the matter and she was the representative of all the Governors of the Outer
Worlds. And though Glynd's agenda was different the lengths he went to to
get Blake to come to him so that he might use him as a front man do suggest
that he also recognised that only under Blake's aegis could a new regime
have any popular legitimacy.
And finally there is the perception of Blake and his activities from another
dissident, Hal Mellanby :
==================================
MELLANBY: Blake? You were with Blake?
AVON: Yes, though it hardly seems to matter now. If it ever did.
MELLANBY: If it mattered? Blake and the Liberator? I've been hearing
reports for the last couple of years. You were magnificent.
==================================
So...
considering all of the above it does seem to me that it is possible to draw
the very strong inference that there was considerable popular support for
Blake - support throughout the Federated worlds - strong support. So strong
that whenever any group of dissidents considered moving in any way against
the Federation they sought out Blake to lead them as he was the only one who
would be acceptable to all factions. So strong that the Federation were
prepared to go to any lengths, even to the extent of perhaps undermining
their own position, to stop him.
Of course, as was the case with Nelson Mandela, who has been mentioned in
some posts, and who is, I think, a very good analogy, there is no hard
evidence such as polls of interested citizens to underpin the impression of
widespread support with tangible evidence. But, as with Mandela, we perhaps
can suggest with some certainty that the support is evident enough in
different but just as meaningful ways, such as Le Grand's conviction about
Blake's pivotal position in any rebellion, based as that is on a recognition
of the popular support he has.
It seems to me, though I may be misinterpreting, that some of the
discussion anyway seems to be heading towards correlating whether Blake was
justified in what he did with evidence of popular support. I don't know that
I would necessarily agree that one is *the* justification for the other. I
tend to feel that Blake was more than justified even if not one citizen
agreed., which is hardly likely I suppose - the yen for freedom being one
aspect of humanity which is common to all eras and conditions. But even if
the repression of the Federation had killed it entirely it does not effect
the fact that the government Blake takes up arms against is an evil
government which if any sort of justice is to prevail deserves to be at
least altered if not brought down for the repression it practices upon its
citizens. We can argue about his methods but his cause seems to me to be a
just one. But, if it is felt that popular support adds legitimacy and
justification to the righteousness of Blake's cause and the actions he takes
in pursuit of it, then perhaps the inferences of such popular support to be
drawn from the few moments mentioned above do provide such justification.
I know the politics of 'Blakes 7' are not of much general interest, but I
find it intriguing and feel that it was rather a shame that this aspect of
the series was not explored in more depth. I would like to have seen what
Blake might have accomplished at the head of his 'rabble' :) If Nelson
Mandela could walk from Robin Island into the office of President of South
Africa Blake might have accomplished something similar.
Pat Fenech
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:17:32 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
Message-Id: <E0y2QBq-0003e5-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nicola Collie wrote:
> Further to the Vila as a God thread - I don't know much about Chinese
> mythology, perhaps someone who does can enlighten us on the similarities
> between Vila and Monkey? I'm not sure if Monkey is a god, but I have this
> impression of a mischievous character loaded down with some real
> responsibility all of a sudden.
Well, the only thing I know about Monkey is from the very silly (but
excellent) series they used to show over here (UK, 1984-ish). Tripitaka,
Monkey, Pigsy, Sandy and that lot. Can't quite see Vila as Monkey, though -
he's more Pigsy, really. Monkey definately reminds me of Tarrant - bold,
brashful and totally out of his depth half the time. And they've both got a
magic rod that starts small, but with a quick flick of the fingers
extends... um, you get the idea. Anyway, who else in the crew would take a
leak on Buddah's finger? Aside from Blake, of course, and he's nothing at
all like Monkey.
Tripitaka is certainly Cally (later version) if he/she's anyone. Sandy?
Well, Slave about matches his demeanour - downtroddne and half-asleep all
the time. The life of a water-monster is not all fun and games.
I realise that the similarities between Monkey-the-series and the Monkey of
Chinese mythology is slim at best.
Tom Forsyth.
P.S. I do hope somebody else knows what I'm on about - cultural milestones
like Monkey can't have missed _all_ the people on this list.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:07:25 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
Message-Id: <l03130302b106b53022ca@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Nicola Collie wrote:
>> Further to the Vila as a God thread - I don't know much about Chinese
>> mythology, perhaps someone who does can enlighten us on the similarities
>> between Vila and Monkey? I'm not sure if Monkey is a god, but I have this
>> impression of a mischievous character loaded down with some real
>> responsibility all of a sudden.
>
>Well, the only thing I know about Monkey is from the very silly (but
>excellent) series they used to show over here (UK, 1984-ish). Tripitaka,
>Monkey, Pigsy, Sandy and that lot.
Yeah, I think that's the show I've seen (my memories are pretty vague). I
think I saw it when we were living in Singapore (early '80s), so it
probably had English subtitles - not the ideal attention holder for me then.
Can't quite see Vila as Monkey, though -
>he's more Pigsy, really. Monkey definately reminds me of Tarrant - bold,
>brashful and totally out of his depth half the time.
Quick, hide! I hear the Tarrant Nostra have spies everywhere! :-)
And they've both got a
>magic rod that starts small, but with a quick flick of the fingers
>extends... um, you get the idea.
*snort*
>Tripitaka is certainly Cally (later version) if he/she's anyone.
_That's_ the name I was trying to remember - wasn't sie some sort of mystic
that Monkey was supposed to escort somewhere (gender unspecified due to
fuzzy memory, and I think T was played by a woman but referred to as a man
- v. confusing to a person of tender years). Yes, definitely serene,
philosophical, the only sane one of the bunch. Don't remember much else
about the other characters.
>I realise that the similarities between Monkey-the-series and the Monkey of
>Chinese mythology is slim at best.
Likewise myself
>P.S. I do hope somebody else knows what I'm on about - cultural milestones
>like Monkey can't have missed _all_ the people on this list.
Actually I thought it was unknown outside Asia until I heard a reference to
it here in NZ recently - can't remember what, I've slept since then (dashed
nickel-plated leather memory chips, don't make 'em like they used to, you
can't get the wood, you know)
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
Dunedin, New Zealand
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement "Avon's gadget works," seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:37:51 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <34E10EFF.5F50@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Re: some rebuttals to what I've said.
Sorry, I meant heroism in terms of the _values_ of a hero, not the
courage of one. Tarrant never lacked for courage, but he was a bully to
Vila. (Avon bullied Vila,too, but in a more friendly way, usually. And
Avon never claimed to have good values).
And as far as manipulating people goes, once again, Avon was
manipulative, yes, but he let it be knnown he was manipulative. He'd
tell the people he was with that he'd sent the others into a trap,
knowing he could get them out, but not wanting to argue about sending
them in. Blake would have pretended to be _surprised_ when Dayna and
Vila were captured by the Spacerats, or he would have insisted on
everyone going in together, and increase the risk to all. Blake had a
"democracy" with yes-men following him, Avon had a benevolent
dictatorship. It came down to the same thing; if you didn't agree with
the guy in charge, you could ask to be let off on a nuetral planet.
Has anyone here read Nietzche? Avon seems to typify the concept of
"Beyond Good and Evil"... he rejects the morals that society conforms
to, but has his own moral code that is more personally meanful. He
cannot be a hypocrit, because he lives by self-defined values with
self-defined limits. Blake and Tarrant are modelled on traditional
heores, and don't always meet the pre-set standards. Once again, is
anyone familiar enough with Nietzche's writings to discuss this?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:39:32 -0800
From: Jay <jmcguiga@succeed.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980210183932.006aca38@succeed.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:37 PM 2/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Has anyone here read Nietzche? Avon seems to typify the concept of
>"Beyond Good and Evil"... he rejects the morals that society conforms
>to, but has his own moral code that is more personally meanful. He
>cannot be a hypocrit, because he lives by self-defined values with
>self-defined limits. Blake and Tarrant are modelled on traditional
>heores, and don't always meet the pre-set standards. Once again, is
>anyone familiar enough with Nietzche's writings to discuss this?
I'm not familiar with Nietzche, but your post reminded me of a quote,
attributed to Voltaire (though I don't know for sure if it is his) "I have
no morals, yet I'm a very moral person." To me, it seems to fit Avon to a
tee. Not seeming, on the surface to have any morals, yet they're there and
quite his own. Sorry I'm not much of a philospher
Jay
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:12:05 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Jay <jmcguiga@succeed.net>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <34E11705.52A9@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> I'm not familiar with Nietzche, but your post reminded me of a quote,
> attributed to Voltaire (though I don't know for sure if it is his) "I have
> no morals, yet I'm a very moral person." To me, it seems to fit Avon to a
> tee. Not seeming, on the surface to have any morals, yet they're there and
> quite his own. Sorry I'm not much of a philospher
>
> Jay
>
You're quite right, that's the same idea. And it's ssoooo fascinating.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:58:15 -0700 (MST)
From: The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
To: avona@jps.net (Helen Krummenacker)
Cc: jmcguiga@succeed.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-Id: <199802110258.TAA20295@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> > I'm not familiar with Nietzche, but your post reminded me of a quote,
> > attributed to Voltaire (though I don't know for sure if it is his) "I have
> > no morals, yet I'm a very moral person." To me, it seems to fit Avon to a
> > tee. Not seeming, on the surface to have any morals, yet they're there and
> > quite his own. Sorry I'm not much of a philospher
> >
> > Jay
> >
>
>
> You're quite right, that's the same idea. And it's ssoooo fascinating.
>
>
In the end, in Blake, we all know Tarrant is a jerk who is only out for himself.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:43:26 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-Id: <199802110345.VAA27815@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Helen said:
>Sorry, I meant heroism in terms of the _values_ of a hero, not the
>courage of one. Tarrant never lacked for courage, but he was a bully to
>Vila. (Avon bullied Vila,too, but in a more friendly way, usually. And
>Avon never claimed to have good values).
As far as I can see, there was *no one* aboard Liberator or Scorpio
(excluding Gan and possibly Zen) who *didn't* bully Vila around. And often
for less valid reasons than Tarrant had in City.
And I thought Tarrant had pretty good values, loyalty to your shipmates
being the one that comes most easily and quickly to mind. Avon and Vila
both weren't always too quick to act on that particular value!
Lorna B.
"You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:50:06 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila as a god
Message-Id: <199802110351.VAA28154@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Tom said:
>P.S. I do hope somebody else knows what I'm on about - cultural >milestones
like Monkey can't have missed _all_ the people on this list.
I've heard Monkey discussed before. But U.S. people of a certain generation
might recall the old anime ALAKAZAM THE GREAT, which I think is based on the
same myth.
To a child used to Disney, it was like going on a very strange acid trip.
Man, is this getting *way* off topic...
Lorna B.
"You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:02:31 -0700
From: Catharine Roussel <croussel@telusplanet.net>
To: Lysator B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <34E14C4E.F15@telusplanet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> And as far as manipulating people goes, once again, Avon was
> manipulative, yes, but he let it be knnown he was manipulative. He'd
> tell the people he was with that he'd sent the others into a trap,
> knowing he could get them out, but not wanting to argue about sending
> them in. Blake would have pretended to be _surprised_ when Dayna and
> Vila were captured by the Spacerats, or he would have insisted on
> everyone going in together, and increase the risk to all. Blake had a
> "democracy" with yes-men following him, Avon had a benevolent
> dictatorship. It came down to the same thing; if you didn't agree with
> the guy in charge, you could ask to be let off on a nuetral planet.
Actually, I can't see Blake sending anyone into a trap. It is not his
style at all. He was always a very hands on leader that insisted on
being involved in any mission personally.
For Blake, the resistance to the federation was very much his own
battle. He knew that his band of rebels was reluctant at best. If he did
not lead them, they wouldn't go at all, with the possible exception of
Cally. She at least had the same commitment to the resistance as Blake,
and could be trusted to finish a mission. Yet even knowing this, Blake
still insisted on being in control. I don't think that he was prepared
to put people into risky situations that he wasn't ready to face
himself. His words at the end of "Seek Locate Destroy" were heavy with
the weight of responsibility that he felt for his new companions. "Too
many of my friends are already dead, Cally. I can't afford to lose
another one."
Blake still practised this hands on leadership at the very end. Although
he seemed to trust Deva, and Deva was confident that he could extract
all the information they needed to select new recruits from the
computers, Blake insisted on hand selecting his rebels using his rather
dangerous bounty hunter routine. Even after admitting his mistrust his
own instincts about people, he couldn't remove himself from the
selection process.
Catharine
--
Catharine Roussel croussel@telusplanet.net
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #41
*************************************