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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 45
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
[B7L] Different Generations
[B7L] Avon & Cally
[B7L] Cross-overs
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Re: [B7L] Various stuff
Re: [B7L] Avon's morals
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Re: [B7L] Avon's morals
Re: [B7L] RE: Location, location, location
Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
[B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY
Re: [B7L]Monkey
[B7L] Re: Where Are People/Location...
[B7L] B7, Avon, and anything else I can think of.
Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
[B7l]: Spam Mail
[B7L] Re: more about Monkey
[B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers
Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Re: SC: [B7l]: Spam Mail
[B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis
[B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis
Re: [B7L]Monkey
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:52:11 +1000
From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris <parallax@wire.net.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980212195211.007afbf0@wire.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Carol wrote:
>
>> City at the Edge of the World: Avon wants to leave when it is
>> growing dark. Tarrant argues they should stay and find Vila.
and Heather replied
>Um, and at the beginning of the episode he threatens to throw Vila off the
>ship, saying that 'you're no use to me'. not exactly heroic behaviour.
>Maybe he was just feeling guilty when he wants to look for Vila.
I thought it was normally a good thing to have seen the error of one's
ways, feel sorry for them and then try to set it right....
Yes, Tarrant bullied Vila to begin with. I don't think he ever had any
intention of trying to throw Vila off the ship; he was just trying out a
leadership technique which had perhaps worked before (he'd been the captain
of a ship of mercenaries, if I recall correctly) or maybe he just thought
it was a technique that might work. I wouldn't have thought he would have
known someone quite like Vila before... :-)
(As a person recently promoted to a supervisory position for the first
time, I am feeling acutely aware of the fact that different people require
different kinds of leadership and I'm still trying to work out how to
deliver the right approach for the right person. If it is this fraught
with hazard in the banking industry, how on earth must Tarrant have felt?)
I used to really dislike Tarrant. A lot. This episode used to be a main
reason for it. But now I watch it and see that whilst Tarrant made an
error of judgement and did something wrong, he also acknowledged it and
wanted to rectify it. Whether or not he is fond of Vila, trying to fix a
mistake is the right thing to do.
And as someone else pointed out recently, Tarrant was the one who suggested
leaving VIla and Kerril alone for a moment, so that Vila could decide
without pressure from his crewmates what he should do.
This is not to say that Tarrant became instantly perfect. They are a
somewhat imperfect bunch, if you hadn't noticed, and he fitted right on in
with the rest of them. :-)
Narrelle (a convert)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris
parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax
"Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit;
by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:38:53 GMT
From: "Jane Elizabeth Macdonald" <J.E.Macdonald1@student.derby.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Different Generations
Message-ID: <444D9D3A4D@sdk1.derby.ac.uk>
Lady C., the Anceunt One writes
> I think this is the hallmark of any good dramatic series. The youngest viewers watch for the
> "action", and occasionally the basic plot line. What basically happens is
> that those of us who are - um (don't want to offend either end of the age
> spectrum here)- more mature (sophisticated?) in our reactions to television
> see not only the straightforward plot, but the intricacies of character
> development and relationships along with the more subtle, implicit events
> in the series.
So, true. I first watched the series when I was 12 (giving away my
age here!). I didn't particularly notice the interaction between the
characters, or the inexpensive props, but liked the exiting stories and of cause had an
infatuation with Avon <sigh>. However, I recently started
re-watching Blake's 7 on video and I am enjoying it now for totally
different reasons. I particularly like the subtle (or sometimes not
so subtle) reactions of the characters in the backgrounds - as was
mentioned in recent postings.
Cylan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:07:04 GMT
From: "Jane Elizabeth Macdonald" <J.E.Macdonald1@student.derby.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon & Cally
Message-ID: <44C5F82CFC@sdk1.derby.ac.uk>
AChevron wrote:
<<but it seemed to me that she and Avon were developing a special
rapport in 3rd season. does anyone else think they saw something starting?
and D. Rose replied:
> No doubt in my mind. Avon tolerates the change of priorities when the
> Sarcophogus shows up, pretty much to humor Cally. And the glances he keeps
> giving her through the episode. Personal opinion; having resolved his Anna
> Grant fixation, he felt ready to attempt a relationship with Cally. Presumably
> when Servalan's fake Blake messages started arriving, he put the matter on
> hold, so that he wouldn't prematurally let slip what he was about, expecting
> to resume the relationship after the Liberator et al were re-united with
> Blake. And then Terminal happened.... no wonder the poor lad was a
> tad....aggresive in series 4.
When you are a teenager you like to place people in T.V. series into
'couples' and I must admit that I always put Avon & Cally together.
Cylan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:18:11 GMT
From: "Jane Elizabeth Macdonald" <J.E.Macdonald1@student.derby.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Cross-overs
Message-ID: <44F67E4F16@sdk1.derby.ac.uk>
Rob said:
> Has anyone ever conceived of a B7/HitchHiker's cross-over? It would be
> worth it just to see what kind of relationship develops between Orac and
> Marvin. :->
What an interesting idea! A manically depressive Orac who 'knows'
everything and so thinks it is not worth living anymore.
Cylan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:36:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980212132358.2957B-100000@newton>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Avon
> >never missed an opportunity to show Tarrant up for a trigger-happy maniac,
> >while delighting in his own intellectual superiority. In Blake's company,
> >without Avon's persistent subtle put-downs, I agree that Tarrant would
> >have been a very different character. As it was, Avon brought out the
> >worst aspects of his personality, and it is much easier to dislike him for
> >that than it is to recognise the contributions he made to the crew.
>
> This certainly isn't how I saw it. I thought Avon and Tarrant made an
> excellent partnership, each playing off each other's strengths and
> weaknesses. Each of them managing to take over when the other
> one was having a bad day. They came to respect each other, as evidenced
> in the moving scenes in BLAKE where Avon regrets leaving Tarrant
> on Scorpio and expresses appreciation that Tarrant survived.
Good point. By then, their relationship had changed, though.
> I'm reminded of RUMOURS OF DEATH when Avon is the one behaving
> with atypical recklessness, and Tarrant is providing the cool head.
> They teleport to Earth and Avon goes charging off. It's left to
> Tarrant to contact Liberator. And it's Tarrant who shows Avon
> how to get the information they need out of the dying Grenlee.
Precisely. And does he get any thanks for it? Does he even get any
acknowledgement? Certainly not later in the episode, where Avon doesn't
consider him to be anything other than an obstruction.
Tarrant: Avon, you really are a prize --
Avon: Yes, I really am. So shut up and let me do what I came to do.
Not an isolated incident. And, because of Avon's charisma, we, the
viewers, let him get away with it. But we resent every false step Tarrant
ever makes. It is easy to dislike Tarrant -- Steven Pacey can't stand
him, for a start -- but our reasons for disliking him any more than anyone
else simply don't stand up to rational questioning.
Tarrant was a team player. But any team player needs recognition from the
rest of his team. Blake would have given him that recognition, and served
as a mediator between him and Avon. But things don't always work out the
way we'd like them to. And it was probably more interesting the way it
was.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:40:26 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <199802121340.IAA06869@yfn.ysu.edu>
Avona wrote:
> You can ignore me if you want, but I will explain; the Blake's 7
>characters tend to be arcetypes.
I know about archetypical characters. But I dislike squeezing
people (including complex characters) into narrowly-defined pegs.
I'd rather view them from a broader perspective. Since I don't
have time to discuss everything, I tend to center my posts on what
I do like to discuss. Which is why I didn't comment on some of
your comments.
> Yes, I _do_ consider Avon's point of view to be intriguing. I wouldn't
>behave the way he does. I do however, understand his reasoning. And I
>admire the strength it takes to do the "wrong" thing, knowing that it
>will be forever on his conscience, knowing he won't be forgiven, but
>knowing it is the only way to save lives.(Stardrive)
I admire Avon for his decision in "Stardrive" as well. It's not a
decision anyone wants to have to make. But I don't think he was
the only B7 character forced into that type of choice. Blake, as a
revolutionary leader, had to be forced to make those types of life
and decisions on a regular basis. And I'm quite sure every death
he was responsible for weighed on his conscience.
Many of us admire Avon but we don't see him as better than the other
characters. Which, whether you meant it to be that way or not, is
how your posts were coming across. It was as if Avon could do no
wrong, and no one matched up to him.
Let me requote from one of your earlier posts to show you what I
mean.
> But Tarrant claims the role of hero while often
> rejecting the risks; Avon disclaims the role in spite of often indulging
> in heroic behavior.
Does this not imply that Avon is superior to Tarrant? And, yes, it's
perfectly all right for you to believe that. But it's also all right
for other fans to disagree.
Avon's disclaiming heroics while often indulging in them isn't something
that I can admire. I can only think of how difficult that had to be
for his shipmates. Can they count on him for rescue or not? He
certainly had Tarrant believing--as I noted in a post yesterday--that
he couldn't count on Avon. Tarrant said he was
surprised that Avon came back for him in "Rescue." On the other
hand, I don't think any of his shipmates would ever have doubted that
Tarrant would come back for them. And, yes, eventually Tarrant
realized he could count on Avon, but if Avon had been more honest
to begin with, all that time of doubt would have been avoided.
You say that Tarrant claims the role of hero. I ask you when did he
make that claim?
You say that Tarrant rejected risks. I ask you when did he reject
risks?
>Sometimes he makes
>mistakes; look at how he walked into Servalan's traps at times. But he
>always cared about his teammates; he just never liked to admit it.
Now that's a statement I can completely agree with. Yes, Avon made
mistakes. Yes he cared about his shipmates (despite denying it). And
yes he had as strong of a moral code as Blake and Tarrant.
>So crucify me for liking the character.
I'm not sure how challenging what you said qualifies as crucifying.
But if I showed offense I apologize.
>Why did you watch past the first
>two seasons if you dispise him as much as your comments to me seem to
>indicate?
Despise Avon, no. Recognize that he has as many faults as his
shipmates, yes. Prefer that he not be deified, definite yes.
As to what I watched, when and why, it happens that I saw third
and fourth seasons before I saw seasons one and two. And I prefer
third and fourth seasons, both because I'm primarily Tarrant fan and
because I very much enjoy the maturing of Avon that takes place in
those seasons.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:07:41 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Message-ID: <199802121407.JAA08242@yfn.ysu.edu>
Rob offered examples of Tarrant's lack of tact and sensitivity:
>Sarcophagus: his treatment of Cally, which sparked off his little
>tete-a-tete with Avon. He was suspicious of her and wanted answers, but
>he went totally the wrong way about it.
I'm not sure why it is wrong for Tarrant to be open and honest in
his suspicions. He was an honest, forthright person. Cally's
scold of Avon later suggests that she prefered Tarrant's honesty
as well. Quoting from a draft version of the script so this might
not be exact, she says:
"You didn't trust me. You thought I had some obscure reaction
to something on that ship. Didn't you? You and I teleported
aboard so you could watch me. See what I'd do. You cut Tarrant
out because he had the same idea, but he'd made no secret of it."
>City at the Edge of the World and Moloch: his interactions with Vila.
>Both times, he was trying to enlist Vila's efforts. Both times he
>resorted to a battle of wills, which, in the latter case, he actually
>lost. By contrast, Blake would have known exactly how to handle the
>situation.
I'd agree that Tarrant wasn't at his best when trying to gain Vila's coopera-
tion in City and Moloch. He made mistakes. But as has been often
pointed out, they all made mistakes. And Blake wasn't always the
most tactful person. He was willing to use forceful methods
to gain people's cooperation. Such as in "Bounty" when he was
trying to covince Sarkoff to return to Lindor.
There were other times when Tarrant's tact and sensitivity were
exemplary. One of my favorite moments is in "Children of Auron"
when they reach the replication plant. He was gentle and considerate
with Cally, aware of the emotional impact of her reunion with Zelda.
When his shipmates were at their lowest, Tarrant seemed to gain a maturity
beyond his chronological age that enabled him to be supportive.
All of the crew had exemplary moments of sensitivity. My two
favorite Avon moments occur in "Headhunter" and "Death-Watch." In
the former, Avon recognizes that Muller's woman requires comforting.
And it's so cute when he realizes that's not his cup of tea and he
offers a soulful eye plea for Soolin to take over. In "Death-Watch"
Avon offered Tarrant the type of sympathy that a fellow Alphan
would find acceptable. He wasn't gushing with sympathy, but
rather quietly supportive.
One of my favorite Blake moments is the support he offers Jenna
when the two of them are captured on Horizon.
>Strange as it sounds, it was Avon's tact that won
>him the leadership role in Series 4.
>
>Examples? Sorry, gotta go and talk to my supervisor now. I'll come back
>to this later, if the discussion is still going.
Please do, I'll be interested in the theory. I can't say that I
ever saw tact as how Avon won the leadership role. He won it almost
by default--once he started to accept responsibility, Tarrant backed
down. I have to agree with Nicole that Tarrant wasn't overly
eager to be in charge. He was filling a gap until Avon stepped forth.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:15:25 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Various stuff
Message-ID: <199802121415.JAA08358@yfn.ysu.edu>
Nicole wrote:
>Actually, what Sarcophagus illustrates is that the Humming Blue Egg can
>manipulate the minds and emotions of the humans on board. A & T are
>interacting 'normally' in the beginning of the ep. Just before Avon and
>Tarrant start their rants, the camera focusses on the HBE; I choose to
>interpret that as an indication that it is influencing their
>interactions; as soon as it stops, both Avon and Tarrant drop the
>postures. Both say something to the effect of 'Forget that', and they go
>on.
Love the "Humming Blue Egg." <g> And your interpretation is how
I saw the scene. The reason the Egg chose to influence them is
given later in the episode. Avon says (again, I'm quoting from a
draft version of the script):
"Isn't it obvious? We've been out-maneuvered. Teleport failures.
Mysterious alien artifacts. Whiel you and I were pawing the
ground, Tarrant, that thing used Cally to re-activate the
device in the correct sequencel. ..."
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:43:45 -0000
From: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's morals
Message-ID: <887291140.2016112.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Iain said
> I think you're maybe being a wee bit unfair to poor old Nietzsche. This
> "Nietzschean hero" we're talking about is largely derived from "Thus
Spoke
> Zarathustra", and your comments about morality sound as though they're
> from "The Antichrist" (though there are other possibilities, it's just
> that that is his most vicious rant on this topic).
Actually when I saw that Helen K was posting about Nietzsche I had another
read of 'Beyond Good and Evil' which is an intensely irritating book IMHO.
Uh.. the irritation coming across in this email is directed solely at
nietzche, not anyone else.
Oh, and BTW I'm sorry somebody sent you a rude private email Helen - what a
horrid thing to do! if they aren't interested then they should just skip
the topic.
> I don't know if you've
> read "Human, All Too Human" or "Daybreak". To me, these are his best
> books. There's a subtlety, a lightness of touch and a genuine human
> feeling in those books, as well as a lot of insightful and prophetic
> statements that sound as if they come from a 20th Century writer.
Well there just comes a limit to how many books you can read if someone
just gets on your wick (a bit like people talking recently about EE Smith
and Hubbard).
FWIW (perhaps better go to spin list if anyone wants to continue this) I
think
Nietzche was very clever and very young. He didn't live long enough to meet
his match, someone who would have been able to see through his dazzling
prose, and conversely his 'shocking' reputation, and actually engage him in
the kind of debate that would have rubbed the rough edges off. Instead N.
had to have imaginary debates with people who were dead (like Kant for
example) - debates which he always won because he played both parts.
Then the syphilis rotted his brain, and the chance was lost.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:26:37 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <199802121426.JAA08971@yfn.ysu.edu>
Rob wrote:
>Not an isolated incident. And, because of Avon's charisma, we, the
>viewers, let him get away with it. But we resent every false step Tarrant
>ever makes.
Careful there, Rob, you're getting very close to being inducted into
the Tarrant Nostra. That's a perceptive observation.
Should I be sending Tarrant Nostra buttons to Deliverance?
>It is easy to dislike Tarrant -- Steven Pacey can't stand
>him, for a start --
Well, we forgive Steven because he's charming and sweet and
autographed our Tarrant poster "To Del's Angels: ladies with exquisite
taste."
>but our reasons for disliking him any more than anyone
>else simply don't stand up to rational questioning.
I could read this all day. <g> But I've been spending much too much
time posting. Two more then I'm going to be quiet. I hope...
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:30:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980212142617.3494B-100000@newton>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Sarcophagus: his treatment of Cally, which sparked off his little
> >tete-a-tete with Avon. He was suspicious of her and wanted answers, but
> >he went totally the wrong way about it.
>
> I'm not sure why it is wrong for Tarrant to be open and honest in
> his suspicions. He was an honest, forthright person.
Depends what you mean by wrong. Morally wrong -- perhaps, perhaps not. I
haven't given that very much thought. It was "wrong" in the sense that it
was ineffective. No wonder Cally didn't mind him being honest and
forthright: she could brush his questions off with very little effort.
Avon was more of a threat, because he was more likely to find the secret
she was hiding.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:41:09 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <199802121441.JAA09471@yfn.ysu.edu>
Avona wrote:
>Sorry, I was insulted by one person who said she would ignore all my
>mail since she thought I was pompous, or something like that. Maybe I am
>a little, and I'm sorry for that, too. Find that on your email first
>thing in the morning and see if it doesn't make you a little grouchy.
I presume that was sent to you privately since I couldn't find it on
the list. You've not had an easy welcome to the list. Discussions
get hot and heavy, but I like to think that most of us aren't deliberately
trying to insult each other. What is said gets misunderstood, and
posts aren't always worded as tactfully as they could be (mainly
because we are all rushing them out between real world responsibilities).
I hope you will continue to enliven discussions. I haven't posted
this much in a long time.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:59:57 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Message-ID: <199802121459.JAA10228@yfn.ysu.edu>
Narrelle wrote:
>(As a person recently promoted to a supervisory position for the first
>time, I am feeling acutely aware of the fact that different people require
>different kinds of leadership and I'm still trying to work out how to
>deliver the right approach for the right person. If it is this fraught
>with hazard in the banking industry, how on earth must Tarrant have felt?)
This is exactly why I have a lot of empathy for Tarrant's dealings
with Vila. I was promoted to a supervisory position when I was in my
early twenties. And I know the difficulties involved, which you've
ably pointed out. And as you've also ably pointed out, what I was
doing did not involve questions of survival. Tarrant was under a lot
more pressure than I ever was, and I can't say that stopped me from
making more early mistakes than he did. As is often the case in fandom,
it's much easier to empathize with plights that you've suffered than
it is with the opposite positions. So I can understand why victims
of bullies are more likely to identify with Vila, while I tend to
identify with Tarrant (in the "City" and "Moloch" situations).
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:21:56 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
CC: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's morals
Message-ID: <34E31394.2FB8@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> I think where N. went wrong was thinking that the alternatives in life were
> (a) Traditional christian morality which demanded that the strong sacrifice
> themselves completely for the weak and was nervous of vigour and joy
> (b) His kind of proto-fascism which demanded that the strong were
> completely cruel and ruthless, and treated the weak like cattle.
Common misconception, because bad people usurped the ideas of the
philosopher. Zarathustra, and the poems in The Gay Science, indicate
that Nietzche thought the overman would be kindly disposed towards his
fellow beings. Zarathustra was even kind to a snake until it turned
against him. The idea, I guess, was that repression brings out the worst
in many people. Beowulf would be an example of what Nietzche admired.
Strong, lived vigorously, generous to his followers, and deadly to his
enemies. And actually, N. was reluctant to guess exactly what the
"overman" would be like, because he himself had not been able to
achieeve that state.
Mind you, N. was slowly losing his mind and this may show in some of his
ideads. I doubt one man in a thousand would be improved by writing his
own moral code.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:13:29 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: Location, location, location
Message-ID: <199802121513.KAA10613@yfn.ysu.edu>
Susan wrote:
>I've seen fan fiction
>where Tarrant left the Federation because of being ordered to do something he
>found extremely distasteful, but what if he left because he ended up in a
>situation where he was in charge and had to choose between actions that would
>both end badly. That could sour him on command and explain why someone who was
>capable of leading would chose not to.
That's definitely a possibility that has crossed my mind, and one that has
been sorely neglected in fanfic. I think (memory is a terrible thing to
lose) that I've been playing with the idea in one of my many gathering
dust incompleted stories. What exploring the theme brought home to me
(this was PGP) is that Tarrant would have had a lot of understanding for/
admiration of Blake, because Blake was making those kinds of difficult
decisions.
Tarrant's not shy about putting his own life at risk, but
I think it is difficult for him to put others' lives at risk. He'd
rather be the one taking the chances. Which also might explain his
behavior in "City." Perhaps upset that he couldn't be the one
going down to Keezarn and taking the risk contributed to his mood.
While his temper appeared to be directed at Vila, it was restrained
enough that I can believe it was taking the place of frustration
directed at himself.
Carol McCoy
Yes, I know I answered one more post that I said I would. There
goes any pretense of self discipline. I've certainly enjoyed
all the ones I don't have time to get to: Sarah T's, the responses
to Grace's questions, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:12:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980212151120.28413D-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Carol A. McCoy wrote:
> making more early mistakes than he did. As is often the case in fandom,
> it's much easier to empathize with plights that you've suffered than
> it is with the opposite positions. So I can understand why victims
> of bullies are more likely to identify with Vila, while I tend to
> identify with Tarrant (in the "City" and "Moloch" situations).
I tend to identify with Travis.
Should I be worried?
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:07:07 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY
Message-ID: <19980212.080354.9703.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
> <I feel much the same about the picture on page 28 of "B7 the Inside
> Story.">
>
Sure you don't mean the picture on page 29?
Julie Horner
Penny's reply:
VERY LARGE GRIN
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:00:22 -0000
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]Monkey
Message-Id: <E0y325o-0002r9-00@praseodumium>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
John asked:
> Make that six, a Monkey mailing list what are the details please.
The homepage for the list is
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/8153/mailinglist.html
Heather.
'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:26:53 -0600 (CST)
From: "G. Robbins" <robbins@graceland.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Where Are People/Location...
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980212131642.25923A-100000@inet-ux.graceland.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Jason wrote:
>>I'm from out in the States.. in Iowa of all places.
The local PBS station started showing Blake's 7 around last July or so,
and I've been a fan since the first show.<<
And Susan wrote:
>>It's interesting to see where people are from. Three Iowans on the
list, not too bad.<<
Yeah, I'd like to say Iowa was the Mecca for Blake's 7, but that would be
going a little too far, eh? All I can say is, I love knowing Blake's 7's
on TV and can tune in every week at the same time and see it! Well, most
of the time, anyway!!
Grace Robbins
robbins@inet-ux.graceland.edu
http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins
----------------------------
I have a few ideas. Together with yours, we may have something.
-Max DePree
I like people who refuse to speak until they are ready to speak.
-Lillian Hellman
Trust is, if anything, as important as the ozone layer for our survival.
-Sissela Bok
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:50:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Jennifer Becker <opsbabe@yahoo.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] B7, Avon, and anything else I can think of.
Message-ID: <19980212205056.26220.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
OPSBABE here. I'm new to the list. To introduce myself let me say
that I discovered B7 (and Avon)last year when PBS started carrying it
around here.
Man was I hooked!
I get so engrossed in the plots that I don't even notice the cheezy
effects!
Personally, I think that Paul Darrow as Avon kicks butt. He's good
looking, (always a plus!) as cynical as yours truly, and basically the
best anti-hero I've ever seen!
Anybody notice the fireworks that sprang up between him and Cally in
Sarcophogous? Okay, she was under the influence of someone or
something else, but in Rumors of Death why didn't she want any part in
his revenge? Jealousy over Anna sounds like a good reason.
Not to mention the fact that the sexual tension between the two of
them is so thick you can cut it with a knife! (Hmmm, I feel a story
plot coming on. Now let's see ..... knife, cally, Avon. Hmmm?)
Whoops! Sorry, momentary brain lapse. I have one little request to
make of the list. Now, I know I'm new but what better way to keep me
here and encourage others to join then by posting more fan fiction to
the board? I dabble a little and be quite thankful for everyone's
advice and criticisms.
I know there are some writers out there among you! I've seen some of
the work you put on-line. (Which in my humble opinion there isn't
enough of!)
Come on people lets get writing! Blake and friends need something
constructive to do beside hanging around the Liberator drinking Soma
all day!
Look for my first story soon! I'm using one of my own creations. Her
name is Lauren Radcliffe and she's about to give Avon a run for his
money on cyncism!
Until later!
Jen B.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:36:23 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Message-Id: <199802122138.PAA00563@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Narrelle wrote:
>Yes, Tarrant bullied Vila to begin with. I don't think he ever had any
>intention of trying to throw Vila off the ship; he was just trying out a
>leadership technique which had perhaps worked before (he'd been the captain
>of a ship of mercenaries, if I recall correctly) or maybe he just thought
>it was a technique that might work. I wouldn't have thought he would have
>known someone quite like Vila before... :-)
Vila is unique, one has to admit! Something I think Carol has said before
is that Tarrant told Vila he'd toss him off the ship and no one would stop
him doing it--and Vila apparently believed him! Which makes one wonder just
how his long-time crewmates Avon and Cally have been treating him...
>I used to really dislike Tarrant. A lot. This episode used to be a main
>reason for it. But now I watch it and see that whilst Tarrant made an
>error of judgement and did something wrong, he also acknowledged it and
>wanted to rectify it. Whether or not he is fond of Vila, trying to fix a
>mistake is the right thing to do.
Yes, and putting yourself into the other person's shoes can change your
viewpoint as well. I wasn't keen on Tarrant either, the major sticking
point being City. But then when you look at Vila's *and* Tarrant's pov in
that scene, you can sympathize with both--
Vila: Why the hell is this bastard pushing me around like this?
Tarrant: Why the hell is this bastard not willing to do his share of the
work?
>This is not to say that Tarrant became instantly perfect. They are a
>somewhat imperfect bunch, if you hadn't noticed, and he fitted right on in
>with the rest of them. :-)
And makes them a lot more interesting to boot!
Lorna B.
"You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:42:12 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Message-Id: <199802122144.PAA00752@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Iain said:
>I tend to identify with Travis.
>
>Should I be worried?
Are you identifying with both of them, thus sporting a different patch over
each eye?
Then yes, you should be worried. And let us know when you're going to be
driving anywhere too, okay? So we can get out of the way!
Lorna B.
"You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:22:46 -0800
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
CC: space-city@world.std.com
Subject: [B7l]: Spam Mail
Message-ID: <34E3D8A6.1EE8@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
After the recent invasion of spam messages, and the resultant hostile
reaction, I`ve been browsing through various computer mags.
March 1998 edition of PC Answers has a section on getting your own back
on spammers. I don`t really know if it would be applicable to something
like Lysator or Space-city, but I can forward on a copy of the mag if you
are not able to get them in your locations. For that matter most of the
technical stuff went clean over my head. I am not a fan of long
technical words - simple instructions like "click on start, choose open,
click on red sticking plaster, double click on stick" and voila! your
sick computer is now mended.
Does that sound like a gripe, or what? Pity the person it was aimed at
is not likely to be a member of this list. He has let me down yet again.
Because he keeps breaking appointments to come round and fix my machine,
I spoke to him over the phone, and asked if I could ring him up later
when I had my machine switched on and running, so that he could talk me
through sorting out some of the problems this wretched machine has. No
problem he says, I give a time band, ie between 7 & 8 pm tonight, that I
would ring. Hands up who guessed that he was out when I phoned? Give
yourself a brownie point. It is now 21.15 and he still has not got back
to me. This is on TOP of him losing my original Windows 95 CD Rom!!
Anyone with any ideas how I can get my own back on this @&%@#!!
I`m going to go now and kick a door down!
Bye for now
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:01:08 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: more about Monkey
Message-Id: <l03130300b1091ed9a9d8@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sarah T. wrote:
>This is probably rather more than you wanted to know, but--
>
[lots of interesting info snipped for space]
A friend related some of the story, as he remembers it, to me - Monkey
stole something from the gods that made him immortal, and to punish him
they put a mountain on top of him. After many centuries it wore away and
Monkey was free, then the adventures with Tripitaka, et al. start. Is this
right?
>It never occurred to me to try to match the characters to the B7 ones,
>because offhand I don't see much resemblance, but hmm... I'd say Monkey is
>a combination of Vila and Tarrant. He's very much a trickster, like Vila,
>but he also has a certain kind of confidence in his abilities that is more
>Tarrant-like than Vila-like, IMO. And he's a fighter, which Tarrant is and
>Vila isn't.
OK. I have this vague memory of the TV series (I'm not even sure if it was
the same one everyone else has seen!) of Monkey being mischievous and
cocky, as you describe. Dancing around Tripitaka as they walk along,
jabbering breathlessly.
[more snippage]
>I have no idea why Tripitaka was played by a woman, but it might perhaps
>have something to do with a Chinese opera convention in which certain
>specific male characters (e.g. Chia Pao-yu in The Dream of the Red Chamber;
>I'm not sure about Tripitaka) are traditionally played by female
>impersonators or, in a modern film or TV production, by actual women.
Could well be, I understand there are several cultures and theatre styles
which use similar conventions - viz the panto thread we had (here? or on
TheOtherList?) late last year.
Perhaps further discussion of this could go to the spin list.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
Dunedin, New Zealand
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:44:23 EST
From: DCsquared@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers
Message-ID: <1bffa8b4.34e38959@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I am taking a class in web page design, and our assignment is to create a
personal web page. Of course I must devote it to B7. My challenge was to
find an area that hasn't already been covered so brilliantly by some of you.
I have decided that it should cater to novice B7 fanfiction writers like
myself. Some of you know that I just wrote my first story, Mercy's Bounty
(which was published by the AVON fan club.) It was an exciting but also
terrifying experience. I want this page to be an encouraging place for
beginners to come and find info on the basics of everything B7. I also want
to include a section where folks can post/read short sections of stories.
These sections might be from beginers seeking advice, or from great stories
already published so that we can analyze what makes them so great (with the
author's permission of course). I want it to be a very safe and friendly
place for those who are terrified to get started, but want to learn from the
constructive opinions of others.
Those of you who are fairly experienced authors/editors are welcome to drop
by, but it will probably not have a lot of new and interesting material for
you. However, there is a way that you can help. I would love to put in a
section that includes advice from those of you who write or edit B7. It could
be on any subject, such as: pet peeves, most common beginner mistakes, how
NOT to write a Mary Jane, where to get a beta reader, whatever strikes your
fancy. If you'd like to contribute, e-mail me at:
DCsquared@aol.com
I do not in any way claim to be a good enough writer to teach others. This is
more of a home for novices who are looking for the comradarie and support of
other novices. Hopefully, with some contributions from those more
experienced, and links to other sites that do offer expert teaching, we can
muddle through our B7 writing infancy and later produce something to give the
rest of you a good read.
Thanks for your time,
Donna
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:14:27 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully
Message-ID: <199802130014.TAA12971@yfn.ysu.edu>
Iain wrote:
>I tend to identify with Travis.
>
>Should I be worried?
You should be safe as long as you avoid Avon and really deep commodes.
The question is should the rest of us be worried? ;-)
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:52:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: Robert Baskerville <Robert@Baskerville.Net>
To: space-city@world.std.com
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: SC: [B7l]: Spam Mail
Message-Id: <19295.9802130152@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> After the recent invasion of spam messages, and the resultant hostile
> reaction, I`ve been browsing through various computer mags.
Believe me,
dealing with spam is really *really* best left to those with sufficient
technical knowledge. Much spam does not originate from where it appears
to, and reacting to it may simply cause aggrovation to an innocent
party/domain. Forensic examination of routing information takes considerable
experience.
Many of the actions I have seen people take in response to spam are
basically net.abuse in themselves. "Getting your own back" can blow up
in your face and seriously upset innocent parties.
In recent times, I have found that a calm and informed complaint to the
correct place (the determination of which is non-trivial) is more often
than not effective.
Spam affects us all. It is best delt with at the ISP level, however. If your
own ISP isn't taking it seriously, asking pointed questions might make them
realise that it is in their own interest so to do.
So if you get spam, ask your ISP some questions:
o Are all your MTA's (mail routing machines) safe against relay-rape?
(if not, they should deal with it as a matter of extreme urgency.
If they can't get their sendmail program so configured, they should
visit http://www.sendmail.org or use Exim instead http://www.exim.org)
[if they're using NT instead of proper unix MTA's they're probably
screwed on this front so change ISP!]
o Are all your MTA's rejecting mail from broken sites? (eg no reverse
DNS lookup)
o Are you using the MAPS RBL (Mail Abuse Protection System = MAPS)
(if not, get them to check out http://maps.vix.com/rbl - over 100
ISPs are using this to protect their customers from spam)
If you are getting spam via mailing lists, (such as majordomo lists),
there are many config settings available to protect such lists; for example
a modern majordomo installation can be set to:
o reject postings from non members (this can usually be done even if a
digest exists such that members of normal AND digest list can post)
o conceal the list from a "lists" command sent to majordomo (this helps
prevent spammers finding the list address) [you do this with the
noadvertise settings]
o reject headers commonly found in spam; eg "make money fast" in subject
or the classic X-UIDL: header put in by the commonest bulk mailing
program [use taboo_headers settings]
I protect my own domains with such features and in my case this is sucessful
in rejecting a good 90-95% of the spam aimed at them.
Robert Baskerville
Robert@Baskerville.Net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:57:55 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis
Message-ID: <34E3C4C4.3309@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lorna B. wrote:
>
> Iain said:
> >I tend to identify with Travis.
> >
> >Should I be worried?
>
> Are you identifying with both of them, thus sporting a different patch over
> each eye?
>
> Then yes, you should be worried. And let us know when you're going to be
> driving anywhere too, okay? So we can get out of the way!
>
> Lorna B.
No, it would be two patches over one eye. Bizarre looking, but not
actually blinding.
:^)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:37:41 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis
Message-Id: <199802130439.WAA23506@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Helen said:
>No, it would be two patches over one eye. Bizarre looking, but not
>actually blinding.
>:^)
Symmetry, symmetry!
Lorna B.
"You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:43:02 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]Monkey
Message-ID: <tverKLA2OC50EwH5@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <16860151DCD@uan1.library.nottingham.ac.uk>, Ruth Imeson
<UAZRJI@uan1.library.nottingham.ac.uk> writes
>Cylan wrote:
>>
>> I remember watching Monkey, so there are at least two of us.
>>
>
>Make that 3 of us. Monkey was something of a cultural highlight in my
>family. <g>
>
>For those who have never experienced this wonder, Bravo is reshowing
>the series (in the UK).
>
Thank you, thank you! I loved Monkey, I'd enjoy seeing it again. Day and
time?
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #45
*************************************