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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 46
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] authors
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
[B7L] Tarrant
[B7L] Tripitaka and Monkey
Re: [B7L] Tarrant
[B7L] Avon and Vila
[B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers
[B7L] Blythe Spirits
[B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Re: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers
Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant
[B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish?
[B7L] On My Mind
Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:13:00 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <OPsjiXA8qC50EwAR@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <e4065361.34e22f05@aol.com>, AChevron@aol.com writes
>In a message dated 98-02-10 22:49:23 EST, you write:
>
><< He'd
> tell the people he was with that he'd sent the others into a trap,
> knowing he could get them out, but not wanting to argue about sending
> them in. >>
>
> Actually, I've always thought that Avon usually had several reasons for
>almost every action/descision he made, and usually let the others choose what
>his reason was. Even with Servalan in Terminal. when she supposes that it is
>his interest in the hints of wealth that brought him running.
In fact she doesn't. She's crafted a superb trap just for Avon and his
little foibles - the hint of Blake to bring him running, the hint of
wealth to give a nice, self-centred reason that he can tell himself and
others was his real motive.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:23:37 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] authors
Message-ID: <34E4B9D9.B9E@dial.pipex.com>
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Jane Elizabeth Macdonald wrote:
>
> Alex said
> > As to Lord of The Rings, the first time I read it, I got almost to the end
> > of the end of the last book. Frodo, Sam, and Gollum, with Precious tempting
> > Sam, maybe thirty pages to the end, and I had to put it aside (school work,
> > I was in my last semester as an undergraduate). When I got back to it, I
> > had completely lost the thread of the story. I finally got around to
> > rereading it about four months ago. Thank God I will never have to read it
> > again. I don't think one should have to learn a whole new set of languages in order
> > to follow a story, as one is forced to with Lord of the Rings.
>
> How can you say such a thing? Lord of the Rings is one of the best
> books I have ever read. I couldn't put it down.
>
> Cylan
I put it down - and couldn't bring myself to pick it up again
Julie Horner
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:17:07 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <7d3b3591.34e455e5@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-02-13 06:58:55 EST, Julia wrote:
<< She's crafted a superb trap just for Avon and his
little foibles - the hint of Blake to bring him running, the hint of
wealth to give a nice, self-centred reason that he can tell himself and
others was his real motive. >>
The reason I think Servalan thought is was the money that ultimately
brought Avon running is the wonderful confrontation the two have. She asks
Avon if it was the money that brought him, and he laughs(ahh so delightfully)
and says no. I've always read the scene as Avon amused at answering
truthfully, knowing that Servalan doesn't believe his answer. One of the best
scenes in the entire series, IMHO.
Deborah Rose
"What do you mean it's six more weeks until Deliverance?!!!"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:32:01 +1100
From: Fran Myers <algemy@ozemail.com.au>
To: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant
Message-ID: <34E45961.6A90@ozemail.com.au>
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Nicole sez: I do not believe we ever see Tarrant as 'selfish'.
I agree. Thoughtless, bossy, cruel, insensitive, gung-ho, impractical,
insufferable, arrogant, but never selfish. He really thinks he knows
what is best for the whole group.
Tarrant is unusual,> in that he actually *wants* to be a part of a team.
I'd say he wants to be the leader of a team rather than part of it.
There's nothing unusual about wanting to be part of a team. Most people
do (or are blackmailed into it, as any civil servant or schoolteacher
knows!) Our B7 guys don't want to be a team, except when their lives
depend on it. They are individuals, not followers.
That's why they are so interesting.
And I am stunned to hear anyone suggest that Avon has morals!
Fran M
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:32:19 +1100
From: Fran Myers <algemy@ozemail.com.au>
To: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Tripitaka and Monkey
Message-ID: <34E45973.E77@ozemail.com.au>
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Heather asks: Does anybody know quite *why* a woman was used to play
the part?
Possibly because when you achieve perfection in Buddhism you are above
being male or female? In the end of the tv series (which I must admit,
I loved - dopey Sandy was my favourite) Buddha is shown in his female
aspect.
Nicola sez: > A friend related some of the story, as he remembers it, to
me - Monkey> stole something from the gods that made him immortal, and
to punish him> they put a mountain on top of him. After many centuries
it wore away and> Monkey was free, then the adventures with Tripitaka,
et al. start. Is this> right?
I think he was released from the mountain in order to accompany
Tripitaka - if he behaved, he would be allowed to remain free. The gods
gave Tripi the power to punish him (in the series, through his headband)
when necessary.
Fran M
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:39:12 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: "B7" <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Message-Id: <199802131741.LAA16015@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Fran said:
>I agree. Thoughtless, bossy, cruel, insensitive, gung-ho, impractical,
>insufferable, arrogant, but never selfish. He really thinks he knows
>what is best for the whole group.
Gee, then I guess Tarrant is a *lot* more like Blake and Avon than I'd
originally thought! (With Avon, though, one needs to delete "gung-ho" and
add "selfish.") Maybe they're all related...
Lorna B.
"You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:11:32 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Message-ID: <52f2ef02.34e48cd7@aol.com>
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All the great postings about Tarrant, heroism, and Avon got me thinking
back on my favorite pair, Avon/Vila. Since I don't have time to sit and write
up a "proper" piece on the subject, I thought I'd throw out a few ideas and
see if anyone bites, expands, enhances the subject.
The first thing that strikes me about the two is the first scene that we
meet Avon. Avon is working hard to maintain an aloof bearing, and Vila jumps
in with a rather biting little insult. What's strange to me is Avon's
reaction. Or lack of one. And why Vila felt safe in cracking on Avon in the
first place. Not what I'd expect of a "mouse" type character. Not a good idea
to attract the kittycat's attention, after all.
The only answer I can see to this is that the two have met prior to the
events of Spacefall and have established sort of relationship(no, not that
type). Plenty of fanfic has addressed this, of course, some of it very good.
I can see Vila snooping out information on the Alpha prisoner in the cells, of
course. And Avon would have been a bit vulnerable to a sympathetic body
during this time. Anna gone, his plans failed, doomed to a life on a barren
rock. And Vila has something to gain out of it too. An Alpha with Avon's
unique skills could be useful to someone who likes breaking out of places...
Of course, a few months on the London seems to have affectted Avon's
attitudes. His "five followers and HIM.." comment make it clear that Vila
doesn't rate highly with him at the time. Why, besides the tendancy of close
confinement for an extended time, would Avon's attitude toward Vila change?
My own take is that Vila has not delivered up to this point. To survive the
London, Vila is busy playing the fool to the other prisoners. there is no
opportunity for Vila to display his own considerable talents. I can imagine
Avon wondering as time goes on why he ever thought Vila was worth talking
to(and Vila occasionally making some remark forcing Avon to re-evaluate his
re-evaluation).
then comes the Liberator, freedom, and a chance for all the crew to prove
their skills to the others. I'll leave this to another posting, assuming
anyone is interested in my natterings. Any comments on anyone else's take on
this subject?
D. Rose
"OK, so the curly-haired twit has SOME redeeming features. I'm STILL not
joining the Tarrant Nostra....."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:15:36 -0600 (CST)
From: "G. Robbins" <robbins@graceland.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980213130037.23085A-100000@inet-ux.graceland.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sounds like one heck of an idea if I ever saw one! I'd like to contribute
my story, "Building A Mystery" if that's okay. It's not finished yet, but
I hope to remedy that on Saturday. It may not be a masterpeice, but I
love it in my own respect. Of course-even though combining the two loves
(genres) of my life, science fiction (Blake's 7 primarily, of
course--because it has
Avon) and romance, can leave a bitter taste in the mouths of either
enthusiast-I have to do it!!
So if you want a novice (oh my gosh, and I'm even an English writing
major!) story, you can source it at
http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins/avnstrI.html
Grace Robbins
robbins@inet-ux.graceland.edu
http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins
----------------------------
I have a few ideas. Together with yours, we may have something.
-Max DePree
I like people who refuse to speak until they are ready to speak.
-Lillian Hellman
Trust is, if anything, as important as the ozone layer for our survival.
-Sissela Bok
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:35:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Blythe Spirits
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0213133554-bbaRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
Does anyone out there have a copy of Blythe Sprits? I really really want to
read it - I'd settle for a photocopy.
(For those who don't know, it's a story or collectipn of stories that Gareth
Thomas wrote about a group of medieval monks. Joe Nazzaro published them)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: 13 Feb 1998 13:25:15 -0800
From: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <n1324745997.82020@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>Avona wrote:
>Sorry, I was insulted by one person who said she would ignore all my
>mail since she thought I was pompous, or something like that. Maybe I am
>a little, and I'm sorry for that, too. Find that on your email first
>thing in the morning and see if it doesn't make you a little grouchy.
My advice Avona is...take it in stride and ignore it.
When I first joined the list a year ago, I sent a gushing ;) message to lysator
expounding on my enthusiasm and excitement at discovering this fandom, and
having other people to share my love of B7 and AVON! with.
The next morning I received a message from "someone" (who made it clear they are
not an Avon fan) calling me "insipid", among other things. My feelings were
terribly hurt. But I realized if I wanted to remain on the list I would simply
have to develop "thicker skin"--so I did. And I'm glad I did, because there
*are* only a few members on lysator who don't seem able to discuss the show
without personal attacks on those who don't agree with them.
The majority of list members are wonderful, generous, sharing, *opinionated*,
fun people who I enjoy chatting and disagreeing with (sometimes, strongly
disagreeing, but that's part of the fun) -- and I consider myself lucky to have
met the folks on this list and to be a part of this fandom.
My enthusiasm and excitement for B7 and my overwhelming lust for Avon has not
waned one bit over the last year, if anything it's increased.
So, I continue to enjoy the list; and I continue to ignore the opinions of
*that* particular list member.
I hope you've decided to do the same. BTW, I never found your posts to be
pompous. I enjoyed them.
Carol K
(an AVON fan)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:33:20 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <uFrLQCAgPI50EwE5@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <7d3b3591.34e455e5@aol.com>, AChevron@aol.com writes
>In a message dated 98-02-13 06:58:55 EST, Julia wrote:
>
><< She's crafted a superb trap just for Avon and his
> little foibles - the hint of Blake to bring him running, the hint of
> wealth to give a nice, self-centred reason that he can tell himself and
> others was his real motive. >>
>
> The reason I think Servalan thought is was the money that ultimately
>brought Avon running is the wonderful confrontation the two have. She asks
>Avon if it was the money that brought him, and he laughs(ahh so delightfully)
>and says no. I've always read the scene as Avon amused at answering
>truthfully, knowing that Servalan doesn't believe his answer. One of the best
>scenes in the entire series, IMHO.
It's the scene where she tells him that Blake's dead that's the killer.
SERVALAN: Blake is dead. He died from his wounds on the planet Jevron
more than a year ago. I saw his body. I saw it cremated. Blake is
dead.
AVON: I saw him. I spoke to him and he--
SERVALAN: You saw nothing. Heard nothing. It was an illusion, a drug-
induced and electronic dream. We spent months preparing it. We
recreated Blake inside our computers, voice, images, memories, a
million fragmented facts. When I was ready, I started sending you
the messages, seeding the idea in your mind. I was conditioning
you. And you were my greatest ally, Avon. You made it easy
because you wanted to believe it. You wanted to believe that
Blake was still alive.
[Avon starts for her.]
TARRANT: Let it go, Avon.
The look on Avon's face in this scene is something to behold. Blake was
the real bait all along.
>
>"What do you mean it's six more weeks until Deliverance?!!!"
>
Now, now, calm yourself. I don't want you having a funny turn in the
next six weeks, I can't afford to pay the room bill by myself :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:37:55 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Message-ID: <z1$McHAzTI50EwEg@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34E45961.6A90@ozemail.com.au>, Fran Myers
<algemy@ozemail.com.au> writes
<snip>
>
>And I am stunned to hear anyone suggest that Avon has morals!
>
Try the "wading in blood" speech in Star One (she says, waving a red rag
in front of Sue :-)
Also the general reluctance to take advantage of young, innocent females
who think he's a god, beautiful, etc.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:04:13 -0500
From: Susan Beth <sbs@world.std.com>
To: blake7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers
Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980213190413.006d64a4@world.std.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
DCsquared@aol.com wrote:
>I am taking a class in web page design, and our assignment is to create a
>personal web page. Of course I must devote it to B7. My challenge was to
>find an area that hasn't already been covered so brilliantly by some of you.
>I have decided that it should cater to novice B7 fanfiction writers like
>myself.
That reminds me, I'm not sure if Vickie McManus' wonderful site for B7
fanfic writers has been mentioned over here on Lysator. (It had its
inception on the Space City list, but it offers useful information for
writers of gen as well as smut.)
Some of the items she has:
-"bios" for each of the major characters, as in, everything established
about them throughout the series.
-essays on the theory and practice of fanfic as romance literature
-"orphan ideas" -- ideas for stories that the deviser doesn't think she'll
ever write.
-links to sites full of "general" advice to writers, things to do and not
do to make your stories good.
-contact addresses for zines seeking submissions
-names of people willing to help new writers, as beta readers or as
copyeditors.
-useful "lists" like
names of planets
names of drugs
who touched who, when and why
shakespearean references
Oh, just tons of great stuff, too much for me to list or remember. Anyway,
if you have any interest at all in writing B7, you should at least stop by,
and will probably want to bookmark it:
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/4667
Susan Beth
(sbs@world.std.com)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:21:53 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: AChevron@aol.com
CC: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Message-ID: <34E50DD1.5A9D@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also
feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far.
Each expects it of the other. I think _anyone_ who's had a sibling
understands that aspect of the relationship. The older sibling is
usually dominant and lords it over the younger, who takes advatage of
the very vulnerability in the other's eyes to take liberties. Of course
they aren't brothers, but friends can have that same sort of
relationship, where one is much the stronger.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:28:41 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <34E50F6A.306F@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Thanks to all those who've responded so kindly when I explained about
the nasty note. On the other hand, I saw a quote or two from my first
mailings and realize I was writing without thinking (which Avon would
certainly not have approved of). I actually haven't reviewed my tapes
for over a year and tried to get out my first few mailings fast, because
I was being overwhelmed by mail. So I made some innaccurate comments
simply due to poor word choice and too-vague memory. I can understand
how people would want to correct me.
By the way, personally I admire and emulate Avon's brain, Cally's
compassion, and Servalan's fashion sense.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:36:52 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant
Message-ID: <34E51155.1785@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>
>And I am stunned to hear anyone suggest that Avon has morals!
>
Try the "wading in blood" speech in Star One (she says, waving a red rag
in front of Sue :-)
Also the general reluctance to take advantage of young, innocent females
who think he's a god, beautiful, etc.
--
Julia Jones
Add to that--
Rescueing the others in Horizon, after _proving_ he has no practical
need for them.
Taking the old man back with him in "Assassin" (yes, the guy reminded
him he'd promised, but that wouldn't have kept a Travis or Servalan from
breaking word).
Those are just some non-controversial ones. In a number of situations,
we are left to decide whether Avon was motivated more for moral or other
reasons. Remember, in the words of Blake, "For what it is worth, I have
always trusted you."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Feb 1998 19:26:02 -0800
From: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <n1324724396.81110@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>Carol McCoy wrote:
>Traitor: Stays on Heloit, against Avon's orders, to help Hunda and company.
I always liked this episode *only* for this bit of interaction...
Yes, Tarrant stayed on Heloit to help Hunda, but in so doing he put Scorpio at
risk because fed ships were on the way and Scorpio needed to get out of there.
In fairness to Tarrant, he didn't know the feds were on the way. Nevertheless,
Avon was watching the feds close in, he had Vila whining at him to get out of
there (and leave Tarrant and Dayna behind), he couldn't raise T or D on the
communicators (and he knew they were deliberately not answering)...yet he
refused to leave. He wouldn't leave them behind, and, despite all his threats
to Tarrant, I believe Tarrant knew he wouldn't leave them.
>Rob wrote:
>As it was, Avon brought out the worst aspects of his (Tarrant's) personality,
>and it is much easier to dislike him for that than it is to recognise the
>contributions he made to the crew.
I strongly disagree with this. In fourth season Avon and Tarrant reached an
<unspoken> agreement/compromise and began to work well together and trust each
other. Rather than Avon bringing out the worst in Tarrant, they began to bring
out the best in each other. The scene above from "Traitor" was my first
evidence that their relationship was maturing. Third season Tarrant would never
have trusted Avon not to leave them.
Carol K
(AVON RULES!!!!)
------------------------------
Date: 13 Feb 1998 20:47:22 -0800
From: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] On My Mind
Message-ID: <n1324719533.74540@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>"someone" wrote: (I've lost the original message I don't know who sent this)
>Tarrant looks up to Blake by reputation
I never saw any evidence of this anywhere in the series. And Tarrant didn't
seem particularly impressed with him in "Blake" -- I think the 4th season crew
would still have been more loyal to Avon than Blake. I certainly don't think
Dayna would adopt him as a new "father image" as someone else suggested. (sorry
again, I've lost the original message, I don't know who said it.)
I'm fascinated by the prospect of Blake hooking up with the fourth season crew
and I've been racking my brain trying to put into words what I believe the
reactions of the crew would be, when I received a reply from Carol McCoy in
response to an earlier discussion on this very subject.
I so completely agree with what she said, and she has said it so much better
than I could have that I decided to share *her* reponse with the list.
*****
from Carol Mc:
There was no indication that Tarrant respected or admired Blake. To me,
Tarrant's relationship with Blake would hinge on Avon. Tarrant was loyal to
Avon; he would support Avon in helping Blake or finding Blake. But it's not
something he'd actively seek out on his own.
Here's my take on Blake melding with the fourth season crew. If "Blake"
hadn't happened and circumstances were more congenial, the Scorpio crew would
have been wary of Blake but would have been willing to give him a chance out
of loyalty to Avon. They certainly wouldn't desert Avon for Blake. Not even
if Avon tried to push them in that direction (as he tried to push the third
season crew out of his life a couple of times).
If "Blake" had happened, the possibility of melding the teams would be much
more difficult. Even if Blake and Avon both still wanted to join together at
that point. The Scorpio crew didn't blindly follow Avon. And they've not had
a very good first impression of Blake in "Blake." He's let a spy onto his
base. He's misjudged the situation with Tarrant, which ended up with his
people (Klyn and the white-jacketed technician) getting shot (possibly
killed?). He is not exactly competence personified. The Scorpio crew would
probably still give him a chance, out of loyalty to Avon, if Avon asked. But
it would be a long, long time before they'd come to trust and/or admire Blake.
With Vila being the possible exception who might cotton to Blake more quickly.
It would depend on how soon/how often Blake put Vila's life in danger and
whether Vila deemed that Blake or Avon (who tried to jetison him in Orbit) was
the greater evil. Vila was still miffed with Avon in "Blake." Mind you, I
think if Vila thought about "Warlord" he'd realize Avon felt guilt, regret and
wouldn't do it again, but Vila would have to think that out on his own. Avon
isn't going to spell it out for him.
If Avon decided not to be with Blake, his crew would stick with him. I think
even Vila. Because even if he's miffed with Avon, Vila has three other
friends with that group. He'd play the numbers.
Carol K
(AVON RULES!!!!)
BTW, I posted this with Carol Mc permission.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:24:55 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: "Kinkade.Carol" <kinkade.carol@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind
Message-ID: <34E52AA8.106E@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Wow, I like the way Carol Kinkade thinks, even if I do disagree a little
on this. You may be right C.K, they are individualists, the 4th season
crew. But Dayna's dad was a Blake fan, and he may have shared his way of
thinking with her. And Tarrant did come to the Liberator thinking he'd
find Blake on board to join his crew, if I remember that episode
correctly. He'd done enough research on the crew to know Chevron had to
be Avon.
Soolin, I haven't got a clue how she thinks.
When I said they'd accept Blake, I believe it was in answer to a three
part "what-if" that include "Blake" being a bad dream. So they haven't
seen Blake's poor performance as a leader in that. And they wouldn't
jettison Avon; on the other hand, they weren't winning in the 4th
season, and if Avon thought Blake could do a better job, I think they'd
trust his judgement. _Avon_ says this guy can do better?
I'd rather be in Avon's crew than Blake's. His sense of honor drives him
to be very careful with lives, more so than an idealist would be. (Not
that Blake didn't care about his crew, but he cared about ending the
Federation more)
Have I worded this okay?
Avon RULES! Blake MANIPULATES A VOTE IN HIS FAVOR! Tarrant GOES OFF
HALF-COCKED AND ALMOST GETS KILLED BUT SAVES THE DAY! Vila STEALS!
Oh, dear. I'm LOSING IT!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:22:17 +1100 (EST)
From: Gordon Burgess & Carol Mason <gcb7@magna.com.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Message-Id: <199802140522.QAA05097@magna.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>At 07:21 PM 2/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also
>feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far.
>Each expects it of the other. I think _anyone_ who's had a sibling
>understands that aspect of the relationship. The older sibling is
>usually dominant and lords it over the younger, who takes advatage of
>the very vulnerability in the other's eyes to take liberties. Of course
>they aren't brothers, but friends can have that same sort of
>relationship, where one is much the stronger.
I wouldn't necessarily say Avon was the stronger of the two. Strength comes
in many forms and for Vila to have survived so long within the criminal
elements he to, has great strength. Vila simply utalises his strength in a
different way.
He prefers to let Avon take things head on whilst he watches, and waits and
learns. When he is ready to make his move he is usually so circumspect about
his actions that most people are not even aware of what he has done ,
therefore, most people are not aware of just what, exactly , Vila is capable
of. They just see the cringing coward the Liberator's clown. But, a few
times his true colours have come shining through, for eg, the way he took
control when he though Keiler had betrayed Avon and Soolin and sent them to
their deaths in Gold.
But I do agree with your analysis of their brotherly like relationship and
the way they play well off one another.
Catch You Later,
Carol.
Semper Fidelis
Carol "Hondo" Mason < gcb7@magna.com.au >
*******************************************************************
* "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity" *
* "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film" *
* "Friends may come and go, but enemies tend to accumlate" *
* "If you can't convince them, confuse them" *
* "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk" *
*******************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:02:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980214105412.9356A-100000@newton>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Rob wrote:
> >As it was, Avon brought out the worst aspects of his (Tarrant's) personality,
> >and it is much easier to dislike him for that than it is to recognise the
> >contributions he made to the crew.
>
> I strongly disagree with this. In fourth season Avon and Tarrant reached an
> <unspoken> agreement/compromise and began to work well together and trust each
> other. Rather than Avon bringing out the worst in Tarrant, they began to bring
> out the best in each other. The scene above from "Traitor" was my first
> evidence that their relationship was maturing. Third season Tarrant would never
> have trusted Avon not to leave them.
What I've been saying is based on third season material. From what
everyone else has been saying, the relationships change a lot in the
fourth season -- should be interesting. They're showing "Terminal" on UK
Gold tomorrow, then next week they're diving straight into "Rescue". You
lot have whetted my appetite.
OK -- I'm unsubbing now. It's a bit naughty to use my work account to
access this list, but I couldn't resist it for just a few days. It's been
good fun, anyway.
Catch you chaps later,
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:53:40 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish?
Message-ID: <5602ec60.34e585c6@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-02-13 16:40:23 EST Julia wrote:
<< The look on Avon's face in this scene is something to behold. Blake was
the real bait all along. >>
Yes! The contrast of his open laugh and then this scene makes the whole
sequence that much more powerful. I don 't know that I agree that Servalan
intended Blake as the primary bait even with this though; she's twisting a
metaphorical knife in Avon's gut, all right, but playing more on Avon's
gullibility rather than his love/obssession/longing for Blake. The LOOK just
lets the viewer know how important Blake really is to Avon.
I will stay calm. I will stay calm. Actually, I've got enough things to
keep me busy for the next few weeks, that my insanity might actually survive
the wait...
Deborah Rose
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:20:47 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila
Message-ID: <uokbrBAfPV50EwW1@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34E50DD1.5A9D@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes
>Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also
>feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far.
>
>Each expects it of the other. I think _anyone_ who's had a sibling
>understands that aspect of the relationship. The older sibling is
>usually dominant and lords it over the younger, who takes advatage of
>the very vulnerability in the other's eyes to take liberties. Of course
>they aren't brothers, but friends can have that same sort of
>relationship, where one is much the stronger.
>
Ther's an age gap of several years between the actors, so it's perfectly
legitimate to assume there's one between the characters. That adds to
the "big brother/little brother" aspect of the relationship.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #46
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