From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #53 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/53 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 53 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] RE: blakes7-d Digest V98 #51 Re: [B7L] Safety [B7L] Size does matter [B7L] Safety [B7L] Avon and Vila [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Countdown: Why Blake Stayed on Albian [B7L] Neutral Zone RE: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Re: Safety [B7L] Neutral Zone Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] Blake's body count (was safety) Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] Re: Vila and Plagues [B7L] The difference (think this used to be Character morality) [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Re: [B7L] Blake's body count (was safety) Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) [B7L] oracle of avon Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Size does matter Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) RE: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Countdown: Why Blake Stayed on Albian [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #52 Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila [B7L] Hi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:57:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: blakes7-d Digest V98 #51 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Wed 18 Feb, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > Kinkade.Carol wrote: > > But, as we saw, the destruction of Star One DID NOT bring down the Federation. > Nothing much to add, but you are _so_ right, I though it should be > repeated. Star One's destruction cost lives and only shook up the > Federation a little. Servalan never did get killed, so we never learn if > her death would have made a difference. But she did do an awful lot to > make the Federation expand. And the destruction of the Aurons was her > personal life involving the destruction of a species, not an actual > professional-Federation-typ plot. So, maybe, killing her _would_ have > made a difference. But destroying Star One *did* come very close to destroying the Federation. It was destroyed in the fighting by the Andromadans. That and the losses of ships the Federation suffered weakened the Federation enormously. 'There isn't a Federation any more,' Tarrant said in 'Harvest of Kairos'. There were other references to a weakened Federation too in other epsiodes. In fact, the main reson for the introduction of Pylene 50 was to allow the Federation to control planets that it could not control otherwise. There were many uprisings after the fall of Star One, most notably on Earth itself. In fact, one of these was just about to succeed, had already taken Servalan's presidential palace, was holding her prisoner, when - whoops, oh dear, Avon killed the leader of the Resistance... I don't think you can really blame the failure of the uprising on poor old Blake. The other reason why the uprisings failed was because they lacked a leader early on. Blake never made it back to Earth as he and Avon had originally planned. We will probably never know what happened when his life capsule landed, but it seems likely that he was captured and deprived of his teleport bracelet. The attitude of people in episodes like 'Voice From the Past' suggests that Blake's presence on Earth would have made an enormous difference after the destruction of Star One. If he'd had the opportunity to do what he originally planned, he could well have succeeded. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:43:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Wed 18 Feb, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > IMHO, the deaths in "Blake" are as much Blake's fault as Avon's. > > Avon: Is it true? Have you betrayed us? Have you betrayed me? > > Blake: Avon, I set this all up-- (bang bang bang) > > THOSE were NOT the words to use when someone asks if they've been > trapped. D'oh! Nor does one try to get a paranoiac's friend to think one > is an enemy to test him. Nor do you play mind games on people you've > known for years because you can't trust your judgement. And of course, > it was one of Blake's current people who summond the Federation troops, > was it not? They are however exactly the words you would use to reassure an old friend. How is Blake supposed to know that Avon has changed from the man he knew into a man on the edge of losing it totally? If Avon had been the man Blake remembered there would have been no shooting. If Blake had been the man Avon remembered there would have been no shoting either (because the old Blake would have felt no need to test Tarrant) Blake wasn't playing mind games with Avon. Avon was the one man he trusted without question. Think about it - the bounty hunter base is his big secret - he tells Avon that he set it all up. He's trying to show Avon how much faith he has in him by sharing his most important piece of information with him. Suppose Blake had just answered 'no' when asked if he had betrayed Avon. Do you think Avon would have belived that in his current state of mind? I think he'd have pulled the trigger anyway because he'd have assumed Blake was lying. Judith PS. There are two easy routes for any Avon fan to come to appreciate Blake. Firstly you have to come to see him through Avon's eyes. Ignore the words, watch the body langauge, especially in episdes like 'Duel'. Then consider Avon's actions in episodes like 'Terminal'. Secondly, you have to understand what Blake saw in Avon. Being an Avon fan, you're already a large part of the way there. Avon's biggest unspoken need (as I see him) was for trust. Blake was the one who ignored Avon's criminal past and literally entrusted his life to Avon on several occassions. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:03:08 GMT From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Size does matter Message-Id: <298242934MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> Is there any way the digests couldbe made smaller and more frequent? At the moment they are too big for my server and regular I get chunks chopped out of them as a result. About two-thirds the current size would be about right. cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ "The workers united will never be ignited" Guards! Guards! - Terry Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:23:15 -0500 From: Susan Beth To: blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Safety Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980218102315.00696150@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >You wrote: > >>Just to keep things fair, Blake's body count was a tad higher than >>that. We have Jenna, Klyn, the technician Soolin shot, Deva, and any >>other of Blake's people who were killed when the Federation >>popped by for a spot of mayhem. Also Nova (moussed to death) and any others killed in his rebellion on the London, plus the ones killed in the fight on Cygnus Alpha -- in essence they had "enlisted" in Blake's Causes, so their deaths belong in his column, too. Susan Beth (sbs@world.std.com) ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 1998 11:31:33 -0800 From: "Ma.James" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: >Re: is Avon an Alpha? We all know Avon is an Alpha Elite just because he's so darn special... Shela Ma (an Avon/Tarrant fan) ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 1998 11:39:59 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: >The Scene goes something like this: > >Avon :"Before I decided to put my talents to more profitable use....." >Jenna: "And got arrested" >Avon: "I handled the computer analysis for a research project into matter >transmission. It was based on a new alloy...." >Blake: "Aquatar" Surely Avon had to be an Alpha to be in a position of that much responsibility. He says he handled 'THE' computer analysis for the research project, which indicates he alone was responsible for ALL computer analysis. It doesn't seem a Gamma or Beta would be given that kind of position. Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:21:06 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Countdown: Why Blake Stayed on Albian Message-Id: <199802182023.OAA19267@pemberton.magnolia.net> Sondra said: >> Carol says Blake wasn't doing Avon any good by staying and making >> Vila stay. I disagree. By staying Blake insured that the teleport would >> not be in use (transporting Vila and/or himself back to the ship) when >> Avon needed it. Since that "need" could have become very urgent indeed >> and it takes time to reconfigure the teleport coordinates, Blake's >> decision was actually a highly pragmatic one. Jenni said: >Brilliant point, Sondra. I never felt that Blake was making a pointless >gesture, but I couldn't put my finger on why. I think you've hit the nail >on the head. If I remember correctly, it took about 6-8 seconds to teleport >up, which wouldn't have left much time to reset the teleport co-ordinates. >Just another example of Blake keeping his head in a crisis! Though Carol's later post on the teleport coordinates--to reset, or not to reset, that is the question--renders this argument rather moot, I'd like to add that it would have been *nice* had Blake mentioned to Vila the *reason* he was preventing him from teleporting. A quick sentence along the lines of "It takes too long to reset the teleport coordinates if we have to pull Avon out" or "Don't worry, we'll have enough lag time to get out of here after the bomb goes" might have made some difference. Or at least served as marginal assurance to an obviously very frightened crewmate. It really bothers me that Blake appears so oblivious to this and would treat a colleague and friend like that. Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:47:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Neutral Zone Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 It looks as though Micheal Keating may be dubious for the Neutral Zone. He's doing theatre work in the wrong part of the country. If he does make it, it certainly won't be for the whole convention. Gareth still seems okay so far. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:13:47 -0000 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: <01BD3CB4.4E7AEA60@host5-99-49-112.btinternet.com> Brent wrote re Orbit: >this isn't a matter of asking someone to lay >their life down for you, but using your gun and hunting them down to MAKE >them lay down their life for you Sorry, but it _is_ about asking someone to die for you. If Avon does nothing, they both die and that's pointless. Vila isn't the sort who makes momentous decisions in a crisis and Avon knows that. So Avon figures that either he sacrifices himself to save Vila or he dumps Vila out of the airlock. Vila certainly doesn't expect Avon to jump out for him, so why does most of fandom seem to expect it of him? Avon makes a lot of bad decisions that I would criticise him for, but his actions on the Orbit shuttle are not something I can blame him for. Louise ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:24:30 -0000 From: "Jennifer Beavan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen said. >If there was a 15% chance of survival, I'm > betting he would have taken the chance and let Vila have the safer > course, but there was seemingly no loopholes. > Odd though, isn't it, that "genius leader" Avon didn't use that fine logical brain to question what was going on. Problem, suggestion, shoot, don't think - much like "Blake" in fact. Jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:01:49 -0000 From: "Jennifer Beavan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith said > If Blake had been the man Avon remembered there would have been no shooting > either (because the old Blake would have felt no need to test Tarrant> Do people really think Tarrant's words were so crucial? If Blake had walked into the tracking gallery and met Avon without Tarrant being present would events have been altered? Jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:58:12 -0000 From: Ian Lay To: "Kinkade.Carol" , blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: <01bd3caf$ecef6fe0$f2dadec2@pacific-cc.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol wrote: > >Surely Avon had to be an Alpha to be in a position of that much responsibility. >He says he handled 'THE' computer analysis for the research project, which >indicates he alone was responsible for ALL computer analysis. It doesn't seem a >Gamma or Beta would be given that kind of position. > Oh I agree. I believe that Avon is an Alpha. It's just that it never seems to reveal that fact in the series. ------------------------------------------------------------- Ian "If I could spell I would be dangerust" Lay /// :-) \\\ Watford Internet Football Club ian@pacific-cc.demon.co.uk or wifc@wfc.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:19:14 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louise says re: Orbit > either he sacrifices himself to save Vila or he dumps Vila out of the > airlock. Vila certainly doesn't expect Avon to jump out for him, so why > does most of fandom seem to expect it of him? Avon makes a lot of bad > decisions that I would criticise him for, but his actions on the Orbit > shuttle are not something I can blame him for. That's it exactly. I really wonder what people think Avon should have done in that situation? The moral position between the two of them was precisely equal. By hiding in a cupboard Vila gave Avon two choices - die to save him, or die in the crash with him. Vila was being just as ruthless as Avon - neither was prepared to die for the other. And why should they? Vila is not Avon's child, Avon has no obligation to choose his own death any more than Vila does. I adore Vila and Avon, I just think some situations don't have a way out - in 'real life' Avon doesn't find the superdense matter. In real life one person kills the other, or they both die. The 'nice' thing for Avon and Vila to do would have been to go down together (ermm.. rephrase that) and then they would have both been dead. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:35:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Neutral Zone Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Micheal Keating will not be at the Neutral Zone as he is in a play until 28th March. (I just checked with the con organiser). Gareth Thomas is still a confirmed guest. The Neutral Zone hope to be able to invite Michael to their summer party when that comes round. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:01:32 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: In message , "Ma.James" writes >>Re: is Avon an Alpha? > >We all know Avon is an Alpha Elite just because he's so darn special... > >Shela Ma >(an Avon/Tarrant fan) > Been reading Sue Clerc's website, have we? -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:27:42 PST From: "Sam Blume" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: <19980219002743.615.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain You wrote: >IMHO, the deaths in "Blake" are as much Blake's fault as Avon's. It looks like others have competently dealt with your...errr... post. All I'm going to add is poor Blake's like a coed at a frat party, isn't he, just askin' fer it. And while we're on the subject Vila ought to have thrown himself off the shuttle, Cally shoulda known better than to stay in the only shelter on Terminal...Is there anything else we can clear Avon of and charge Blake with while we're here...I think syphillis, smallpox, and the ebola virus were already claimed...the rise of the Third Reich, El Nino and pinkeye are still available I think. Just MODO, Sam Blume ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:38:56 PST From: "Sam Blume" To: blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: <19980219003900.10768.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain You wrote: > >Also Nova (moussed to death) and any others killed in his rebellion >on the London, plus the ones killed in the fight on Cygnus Alpha -- >in essence they had "enlisted" in Blake's Causes, so their deaths >belong in his column, too. Nova, sure. IMODO, the only true "crew" were the "army of 5 and him" in the inner room and on Cygnus Alpha, I'd only count Gan. The others were...like the all the people who accidentally snuffed it when Avon and company destroyed the Thaarn's place. If the rule is going to extend to associates and not just crew, Hal and Lauren Mellanby, Groff, a couple of people in Moloch, Plaxton, Mueller and his ladyfriend, Neebrox, Gerren, Kieller and others I'm forgetting. Zeeona, maybe. Just MODO, Sam Blume ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:52:25 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's body count (was safety) Message-ID: <199802190052.TAA14880@yfn.ysu.edu> Harriet wrote: >Hey, Klyn is an Avon kill, so if we are making a direct comparison of Blake >and Avon follower-bodycounts it's a bit hard on Blake to put her in. Silly >Blake not to shoot a few of Avon's companions to tilt the balance back >again! Well, it's not as if Avon shot her because he was trying to up Blake's bodycount. What would you have Avon do in that situation? He drops into a hole in the ground, where he finds his favorite (and only) pilot being harshly abused. Next thing he knows someone is calling for "Security." Should Avon (a) assume it is Blake's base and know this is all a misunderstanding (b) ask for a room service menu (c) deduce that this is not a friendly hole in the ground and go on the defensive (d) other (please fill in the blank) ____________________ I view Avon's action as proper: he was trying to protect himself and his followers. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:00:23 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: <199802190100.UAA15688@yfn.ysu.edu> Jennifer asked: >Do people really think Tarrant's words were so crucial? If Blake had walked >into the tracking gallery and met Avon without Tarrant being present would >events have been altered? It's not just Tarrant's words, IMHO, it's the other events that greeted Avon's arrival (that I just mentioned in the post in response to Harriet): Finding Tarrant being beat up and having Klyn call for security set the stage, putting Avon on edge. And, yes, I think it could have been different. If Blake had secured Tarrant (or never tested Tarrant to begin with) and met Avon's flyer when it arrived, there was a good chance the misunderstanding would have been avoided. They would still have to deal with Arlen and the arrival of the Federation, but at least they would only have been shooting at their real enemies. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:05:40 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Vila and Plagues Message-ID: <199802190105.UAA16523@yfn.ysu.edu> Sue wrote: > I think it was the one Kathryn posted. Whew. Now we can all >sleep easier, huh? 8-) So that's why I've had insomnia. It's all Sue's fault. ;-) Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:43:45 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] The difference (think this used to be Character morality) Message-ID: <199802182144_MC2-33E2-B629@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Iain replied to Helen: >>So, maybe, killing her _would_ have >>made a difference. > >I think the only real difference would be that >she would be replaced by someone far less >sexy. This would be A Bad Thing. Oh how true. Probably a man with no beard and a hairy chest. Harriet PS Re destruction of Star One, I thought we actually saw it blow up in the opening moments of Aftermath. We certainly heard voiceovers during the battle exclaiming that it had been destroyed, and Servalan told Avon about it, did she not, during her Together We Can Rule The Universe routine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:43:43 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Message-ID: <199802182144_MC2-33E2-B626@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Could someone with the relevant search equipment (er, Tom??) confirm whether the word "Alpha" (as opposed to "superior grade" etc) is used at all outside Shadow (Vila's conversation with Cally) and Hostage (Joban to Servalan)? Half a point for refs to other Greek letter grades, like Beta in Weapon. I don't owe these examples to my amazing memory; I got them out of Sevencyclopaedia. But my vague impression is that most of the Alpha stuff has been built up by fans. This is not to deny the existence of grading in the Federation, just to murmur my weariness at the frequent projection of the word "Alpha" back into scripts where I've no recollection of it being in the first place. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:06:21 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu CC: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's body count (was safety) Message-ID: <34EBA1AC.10E8@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > What would you have Avon do in that situation? He drops into a > hole in the ground, where he finds his favorite (and only) pilot > being harshly abused. Next thing he knows someone is calling for > "Security." Should Avon > > (a) assume it is Blake's base and know this is all a misunderstanding > (b) ask for a room service menu > (c) deduce that this is not a friendly hole in the ground and go > on the defensive > (d) other (please fill in the blank) ____________________ > Vila> Room service? I'd like 12 bottles of wine sent to hole-in-the-ground Suite B7... oh, any vintage, and variety. And can the waitress wear red fur? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:15:58 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> CC: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Message-ID: <34EBA3EE.4C6C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sure the terms Alpha and Beta were used in Weapon (2nd season). By putting the inventor at a lower grade than he should be, he became obsessed with proving himself. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:48:53 +1100 From: "Roger The Shrubber" To: "B7 Main List" Subject: [B7L] oracle of avon Message-Id: <199802190422.PAA14697@budapest.ozonline.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a very trivial exercise, I linked Paul Darrow using the Bacon oracle to the other main B7 actors in MOVIES ONLY. Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Stone, Marianne Stone, Marianne was in Don't Lose Your Head (1966) with Pearce, Jacqueline Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with McDowell, Malcolm McDowell, Malcolm was in O Lucky Man! (1973) with Croucher, Brian Croucher, Brian was in Shakedown: Return of the Sontarans (1994) (V) with Chappell, Jan Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Stone, Marianne Stone, Marianne was in Wicked Lady, The (1983) with Barber, Glynis Darrow, Paul and Knyvette, Sally cannot be linked using only movies. Darrow, Paul and Tuddenham, Peter cannot be linked using only movies. Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Bayldon, Geoffrey Bayldon, Geoffrey was in 55 Days at Peking (1963) with Heston, Charlton Heston, Charlton was in Julius Caesar (1970) with Keating, Michael (I) Brian Croucher is covered under Jan Chappell Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Sim, Gerald Sim, Gerald was in Slipper and the Rose, The (1976) with Crosbie, Annette Crosbie, Annette was in Leon the Pig Farmer (1992) with Greif, Stephen Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Jackson, Barry Jackson, Barry was in Aces High (1977) with Pacey, Steven Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Stone, Marianne Stone, Marianne was in Wrong Box, The (1966) with Dyce, Hamilton Dyce, Hamilton was in Unman, Wittering and Zigo (1971) with Jackson, David (II) Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Bird, Norman Bird, Norman was in Young Winston (1972) with Hopkins, Anthony Hopkins, Anthony was in Juggernaut (1974) with Thomas, Gareth Darrow, Paul and Bryans, John cannot be linked using only movies. so linking via TV excluding B7 (thanks to bug in IMDB).... Darrow, Paul was in "Blake's 7" (1978) with Croucher, Brian Croucher, Brian was in "Quatermass" (1979) with Tyzack, Margaret Tyzack, Margaret was in "Cousin Bette" (1972) (mini) with Bryans, John Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with Stone, Marianne Stone, Marianne was in Never Let Go (1960) with Tovey, Roberta Tovey, Roberta was in Beast in the Cellar, The (1971) with Craze, Peter Darrow, Paul was in Long Ago Tomorrow (1971) with McDowell, Malcolm McDowell, Malcolm was in Disturbed (1990) with Roy, Deep ___________________________________ from Darren r ..... Comments are welcome ! powerplay@cheerful.com ____________________________________ "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." --Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977 ______________________________________ "The Administration is out to get me" _______________________________________ "In the end, winning is the only safety" _________________________________________ "There are times when even confirmed cynics must trust to luck" ________________________________________ Was God an astronaut ? _________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634 Anxiety & Panic _________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634/powerplay.html Blake's 7 FAQ & free screen savers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:08:58 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: <80126190.34ebbe6c@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-18 17:41:08 EST, you write: << Avon didn't use that fine logical brain to question what was going on. >> But he did. As soon as he bumped into the plastic cube, he very nicely figured out what was wrong. Until that point he probably assumed the excess weight was in the main structure of the shuttle, and couldn't be got to/removed. And in Blake, the problem was too many possible logical solutions, most of them involving Blake as a traitor. With a bigger man approaching him, he lacked the time to think through the scenario. And Blake didn't help by marching forward. And No, I'm not blaming Blake; there are extenuating circumstances on both men's parts. D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 1998 08:38:07 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Size does matter Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk writes: > Is there any way the digests couldbe made smaller and more > frequent? At the moment they are too big for my server and > regular I get chunks chopped out of them as a result. Yes, it's trivial. But you make me wonder what kind of broken mail system you have, since the current size is less than what was considered a reasonable maximum limit back in 1985! > About two-thirds the current size would be about right. Opinions from other digest folks? A 1/3 decrease in size will mean a 1/3 increase in the number of digests, on the average. -- Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/ ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 1998 08:44:33 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> writes: > Could someone with the relevant search equipment (er, Tom??) confirm > whether the word "Alpha" (as opposed to "superior grade" etc) is used at > all outside Shadow (Vila's conversation with Cally) and Hostage (Joban to > Servalan)? Not that I can find by grepping through the transcripts. > Half a point for refs to other Greek letter grades, like Beta > in Weapon. Beta is mentioned only there, gamma not at all and delta only in "Shadow". -- Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:21:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 18 Feb, Louise Rutter wrote: > Brent wrote re Orbit: > > >this isn't a matter of asking someone to lay > >their life down for you, but using your gun and hunting them down to MAKE > >them lay down their life for you > > Sorry, but it _is_ about asking someone to die for you. If Avon does > nothing, they both die and that's pointless. Vila isn't the sort who makes > momentous decisions in a crisis and Avon knows that. So Avon figures that > either he sacrifices himself to save Vila or he dumps Vila out of the > airlock. Vila certainly doesn't expect Avon to jump out for him, so why > does most of fandom seem to expect it of him? Avon makes a lot of bad > decisions that I would criticise him for, but his actions on the Orbit > shuttle are not something I can blame him for. I'm with you too to a large extent. When push comes to shove, I can only think of about four people for whom I'd be willing to jump out of an overloaded shuttle for, and one of those is borderline. (and the first three of those are my husband and two children) I feel Avon's action was immoral. I feel it made him an unsafe person to be with, but I will not condemn him too heavily because I suspect I could be capable of it myself. In such a situation, I might discover an unexpected streak of heroism, or I might find out things about myself that I'd rather not know too well. One things for sure - that shuttle ain't a gonna crash with the both of us on board. If you're lucky, I'll draw lots. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:34:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 18 Feb, Jennifer Beavan wrote: > Judith said > > If Blake had been the man Avon remembered there would have been no > shooting > > either (because the old Blake would have felt no need to test > Tarrant> > > Do people really think Tarrant's words were so crucial? If Blake had walked > into the tracking gallery and met Avon without Tarrant being present would > events have been altered? Yes, I do. Avon, by this time, was hypersensitive to any sense of betrayal. Anna Grant, whom he loved, had betrayed him, and only the week before Zukan had tried to sell him to Servalan. Cally's death could be seen as a form of betrayal too (a sense of betrayal is a common part of mourning) He'd come to almost expect betrayal from those he loved and those he was working with. He himself had betrayed Vila (from Vila's viewpoint) and that simply added to his sense of guilt and his fear of betrayal. The moment Tarrant said 'He's betrayed you', Blake was as good as dead. Remember, Tarrant had risked his own life to get Avon safely off Scorpio. If there was anyone Avon would believe at that moment, it was Tarrant. Without Tarrant's unfortunate misunderstanding of events, Avon would have been just a little less triggerhappy. Not a lot, but he wouldn't have so fatally misinterpreted what Blake was saying to him. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:12:19 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: J.Beavan@BTInternet.com CC: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: <34EBA313.6FE0@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jennifer Beavan wrote: > > Helen said. >If there was a 15% chance of survival, I'm > > betting he would have taken the chance and let Vila have the safer > > course, but there was seemingly no loopholes. > > > Odd though, isn't it, that "genius leader" Avon didn't use that fine > logical brain to question what was going on. Problem, suggestion, shoot, > don't think - much like "Blake" in fact. > > Jennifer Good one, Jennifer. I will NOT try to defend Avon for not figuring out there HAD to be a reason the shuttle was so damn heavy. Way before stripping all the non-essentials that couldn't have weighed THAT much. Or, how about landing the flippin' shuttle when they first realized there was a problem. That would've taken less fuel than maintaining orbit while doing the jettisons. IT"S THE SCRIPTWRITERS' FAULT-- yeah, that's the ticket. Guess I have to blame the scriptwriters for Blake using the "set up" line, too. It's more fun than picking on the characters. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:19:18 +1100 (EST) From: Gordon Burgess & Carol Mason To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-Id: <199802190819.TAA26633@magna.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:39 AM 2/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >>The Scene goes something like this: >> >>Avon :"Before I decided to put my talents to more profitable use....." >>Jenna: "And got arrested" >>Avon: "I handled the computer analysis for a research project into matter >>transmission. It was based on a new alloy...." >>Blake: "Aquatar" > >Surely Avon had to be an Alpha to be in a position of that much responsibility. >He says he handled 'THE' computer analysis for the research project, which >indicates he alone was responsible for ALL computer analysis. It doesn't seem a >Gamma or Beta would be given that kind of position. > >Carol K >(AVON RULES!!!!) I seem to remember another Beta, who had researched, developed and built a prototype, that according to his ranking he should not have been able to do. Yet Coser created IMIPAK, and he was not an Alpha. The grading system must obviously is not infallible. Although our Avon is definitely Alpha Elite :-) Catch You Later, Carol. Semper Fidelis Carol "Hondo" Mason < gcb7@magna.com.au > ******************************************************************* * "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity" * * "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film" * * "Friends may come and go, but enemies tend to accumlate" * * "If you can't convince them, confuse them" * * "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk" * ******************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:40:26 -0000 From: "Jenni-Alison" To: "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-Id: <199802191139.MAA15932@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Wrote: > That's it exactly. I really wonder what people think Avon should have done > in that situation? Well, what if they all took off all their clothes and boots, then put them, and Orac, who must have weighed fair bit, out of the airlock. It might have worked, and would make a great start to a slash story to boot! Jenni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:14:30 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Alphas (was Avon and Vila) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Harriet Monkhouse wrote: > Could someone with the relevant search equipment (er, Tom??) confirm > whether the word "Alpha" (as opposed to "superior grade" etc) is used at > all outside Shadow (Vila's conversation with Cally) and Hostage (Joban to > Servalan)? Half a point for refs to other Greek letter grades, like Beta > in Weapon. I don't owe these examples to my amazing memory; I got them out > of Sevencyclopaedia. But my vague impression is that most of the Alpha > stuff has been built up by fans. This is not to deny the existence of > grading in the Federation, just to murmur my weariness at the frequent > projection of the word "Alpha" back into scripts where I've no recollection > of it being in the first place. This is from the Recurring Themes in Fan Fic section of my web site: The Federation's Alpha-Delta class system plays a greater role in fan fic than in the aired series. In the series it is mentioned in 7 episodes: "The Way Back" (if the Alphas in the children's files refer to caste), "Shadow," "Weapon," "Horizon" (fifth grade ignorant), "Hostage," "The Keeper," and "Volcano"--frequently only in passing, yet it is ubiquitous in fan fic. The only two of the crew whose class we are explicitly told are Blake (Alpha, "Shadow") and Vila (Delta, "Shadow," "Volcano"). Jenna is a superior grade which probably, but not definitely, means Alpha ("The Keeper"). The rest are open to speculation. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html B.I.T.C.H. "It's not just what I do. It's who I am." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:16:18 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Julia Jones wrote: > >We all know Avon is an Alpha Elite just because he's so darn special... > > > Been reading Sue Clerc's website, have we? Wow! Two unsolicited mentions of the website in one week! Woo hoo! 8-) Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html B.I.T.C.H. "It's not just what I do. It's who I am." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:15:12 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Countdown: Why Blake Stayed on Albian Message-ID: <199802191415.JAA23624@yfn.ysu.edu> Jeroen wrote (quoting me): >> Four thousand miles is a small distance on a planetary scale when you >> consider that the entire planet would have been devastated so quickly. >> The fact that Caulder was urging them to leave suggests that danger >> to the area they were in was fairly imminent. What if the initial >> dispersal of radiation interfered with teleport pick up? What if >> something else had gone wrong preventing Blake and Vila from quickly >> getting back to the ship? The practical leader would have had them >> back on the ship long before it became an emergency situation. >> >I thought that was because they all thought that the bomb was in the control >room right? Not at the pole. So this statement could be invalid. This was after they knew the bomb was at the pole. It was when the countdown reached the safety margin and they deduced that Avon and Grant had taken off their bracelets. >> And even if there was still time for Blake and Vila to leave, the >> fact that Blake overruled Vila's decision for no good reason doesn't >> make it Blake's finest hour. If someone is afraid and if there is >> no reason for him to have to be there, let him leave. >> >I didn't think Vila really wanted to leave ... If he REALLY was serious he >would have found a way to get back up. Unless he feared Blake's wrath as much as he feared the bomb. But no matter what Vila could have/might have done, it doesn't change that Blake refused to allow him to leave when he called for teleport and never so much as tried to explain why he wasn't letting him leave. As Lorna noted, it isn't the nicest way to treat a colleague. And as several people have noted at different times, just about everybody mistreated Vila at one time or another. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:56:34 -0000 From: "norm" To: Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #52 Message-ID: <19980219162757996.AAA144@norman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit delete me from your mailing list ---------- > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #52 > Date: 18 February 1998 18:55 > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:37:33 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Gordon Burgess & Carol Mason CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: <34EC51BC.1305@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I seem to remember another Beta, who had researched, developed and built a > prototype, that according to his ranking he should not have been able to do. > Yet Coser created IMIPAK, and he was not an Alpha. The grading system must > obviously is not infallible. Although our Avon is definitely Alpha Elite :-) > > > Catch You Later, > > Carol. Only, we know from Servalan's conversations that Coser had been purposely kept down, in order to manipulate his psychology. I do believe such a grading system is highly fallible. For instance, I really believe Vila chose to be a Delta, though whether he _bought_ the grade as he states or simply doodled on his test papers until they flunked him, either way, he is smarter than the Federation ever suspects. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:12:27 +0100 From: animate@arttic.be (animate) To: Subject: [B7L] Hi Message-ID: <19980219201440992.AAA64@Pc4.ARTTIC> Hi there, This Email is just to say I'm glad to be part of the Blake's 7 mailing list. I'm 29 and I lived in the U.K. when Blake's 7 came out (1978) and since I was very young (9) it had a great impression on me. I naturaly have the entire collection on video (some cassettes date back to 1981). Even now the series still looks high quality, ok the series has had a few wrinkles but it depends which episode because some look and feel very recent (duel ; killer etc....). Great stuff. Bernard P.S. I look forward in receiving mail about the series. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #53 *************************************