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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 58
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Re: safety
[B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test
Re: [B7L] Grandstanding
Re: [B7L] Sarkoff & Tyce; Anna & Del
Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's body count
Re: [B7L] Re: safety
[B7L] Dr. Luv
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test
Re: [B7L] Re: safety
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
[B7L] My Keirsey character sorter score.
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes
Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
[B7L] Grandstanding
[B7L] Re: Families
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:27:15 -0500 (EST)
From: brent@ntr.net
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: safety
Message-Id: <199802230127.UAA10046@rome.ntr.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Carol wrote:
>I don't think either Avon or Vila could honestly be called loyal crewman.
>Both of them will just about always put their own interests first.
Why didn't Vila take a way out of the crew in City at the Edge of the World?
By the time of Orbit, I feel it was well-established that Avon's crew were
all loyal, despite their bickering (only Soolin is questionable and only
because she was the newest addition) and individualistic posturing. Being
in that crew was very dangerous, no matter who led it, yet no one left for
greener, safer pastures. Whether this was loyalty or habit or something
else could be debated, but I think it was loyalty.
>However, Avon could rationalise his behaviour easily. He, not Vila, could
>best organise the new Alliance he was trying to build. He could attract the
>planetary leaders and threaten, bluff whatever it took, them into joining.
>Vila could not, therefore, on that one reason alone, Avon deserved to live
>over Vila. No one is claming Avon's judgement was the correct one from a
>moral stance. But by following Avon's rationale , it was the equitable way
>to go.
That type of thinking is what got all of those lower class people locked
down below on the sinking Titanic. Not enough lifeboats to go around so the
ones with the most to offer society get to live. Gotta love equity.
>According to Egrorian, the shuttle was coming down in a soft damp area if I
>remember correctly. Also, didn't he tell Servalan that Orac would survive
>crash and only be a little dented? Then by the time the shuttle and
altered its angle >of ascent high enough for the shuttle to burn up enough
to destroy Orac, Avon had >solved the problem.
It was going to land in the marsh before Avon got smart and lightened the
load, thus altering the altitude of the ship. Egrorian's careful
calculations didn't plan for that contingency, so unless the marshes were
spread over a large area, the shuttle's altered trajectory would have caused
it to miss the marsh. By the time they reached the point where Avon decided
to shove Vila out, they were above the atmosphere. If Orac had been shoved
out the airlock, it would have burned up on re-entry. I base this idea on
the fact that when Avon returns to the cockpit to guide the shuttle out of
the planet's gravitational pull, stars can be seen through the viewer,
indicating they were in space, but not away from the planet's pull. What
was Orac's weight anyway? Five to ten kilos? The chair? Other things that
could be blasted apart with that gun? As soon as Orac mentioned Vila's
weight, Avon stopped thinking of other options. Until he luckily tripped
over the solution.
Brent
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:54:36 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222175436.006eb3c8@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've been told that the list is full of INTJ's and INTP's but that there is
not a huge Vila following. Could it be that the Vila fans are in the E's
category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.)
Is this is the reason that when I ducked and ran in the other post, the 'I'
in Jacquelyn Taylor grabbed on and wanted to play anyway. (Three days
since that post and I am still quivering in fear. I'm just got up for
these deep 'I' discussions. Lurkdom rules in this case.)
Oh and BTW. I am here to stand up for Vila.
<Tramila looks over to Pat Patera and cries out for her hand to be held
because she is truly scared.>
Tramila
Chapter Member and Pres of VICE
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:55:48 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Grandstanding
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222175548.006f1864@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tramila wrote:
>>And yes. I agree. It was unnecessary to risk Vila's life to do a
>>little grandstanding but unfortunately that was what Blake did best.
>>Grandstand.
>
>><ducking and running and giggling like crazy>
>>Time to go back into lurkdom.
Jackie wrote:
>Not so fast. You know more about the subject of Blake's grandstanding
>than anyone else. Do, please, enlighten us. I've been looking forward to
>another tedious round about Central Control and Star One.
Ekk! <scared>
Why do you say that I know more? I don't. I was just thinking about
Central Control and in general, Blake's "I'm in charge and I am a God"
stance while he commanded the Liberator.
Take pity on this poor ESFJ. She's very like Vila.
Tramila takes her bottle of Soma and joins Vila on the Liberator couch to
sleep the day away in idle, unfocussed activity.
Tramila
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:48:58 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sarkoff & Tyce; Anna & Del
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222203726.00c3f264@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sondra Sweigman wrote:
>It's interesting that everyone who's spoken up on this subject says
>they took Tyce for Sarkoff's daughter from the start. I'd be
>suspicious that part of that was attributable to "already knowing"
>before seeing the episode (ie, from other fans)
Speaking for myself, at the time I first saw this episode I was not
acquainted with any other fans who had ever seen the series. The only other
person I knew who watched it was my cube-mate at work, and it was as new to
him as it was to me.
The only connection between Sarkoff & Tyce which occurred to me other than
father-daughter was of her as a "companion" a la Doctor Who. Sarkoff's
crotchetiness and eccentricity were also highly reminiscent of the Doctor.
Of course, the similarities are not surprising and probably not
coincidental, given who wrote the episode.
>Third (and for me, this was the clincher), *Tarvin* takes them for
>lovers:
I would say that tells us something about Tarvin, but not necessarily about
how *we* were meant to see Sarkoff and Tyce.
--
- Lisa
home: <lcw@dallas.net> work: <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:49:00 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's body count
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222204427.00b01eb8@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Helen Krummenacker wrote:
>Before I absolutely loose my mind over this whole personality thing,
>will someone please give me a run down or tell me where to find how this
>classification thing works?
For anyone else who missed it before, here are some good web sites for
investigating the Myers-Briggs system:
http://keirsey.com/ : Keirsey's own site, with two of his tests for
determining type and quite a bit of background information.
http://www.enteract.com/~jwalz/Jung/mbti.html : Another online version of
the Keirsey Temperament Sorter test. (This one, and any others except at
keirsey.com, is an unauthorized copy. The thing has proliferated all over
the net, about which Keirsey is evidently a bit peeved, but it was probably
inevitable.)
http://sacam.oren.ortn.edu/~jabutt/profiles/profiles.html : A collection of
type profiles compiled by various online contributors.
http://www.worklife.com/faq-mbti.html : A brief summary of the Myers-Briggs
system.
--
- Lisa
home: <lcw@dallas.net> work: <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:39:53 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: safety
Message-ID: <34F0E179.29BB@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
brent@ntr.net wrote:
...
> Really, I suppose I should have known that attacking Avon's character (moral
> fabric, not the character himself) would have raised the ire of his
> champions,
...
Better not! When aroused, an Avon champion tends to raise and wag an
alarmingly red A.S.S. in the air.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:59:24 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Dr. Luv
Message-ID: <34F0E60C.584@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Wow, that Dr. Luv knows his stuff. He was remarkably right on for me!
91% Avon (YESS!)
86% Soolin (my Golden Goddess)
81% Vila
71% Servalan
67% Blake
54% Gan
47% Travis
13% Dayna (she'd get on my nerves darn quick)
But... but... Xena only ranked 26% !!! oh well, I'd be dead in a week.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:13:57 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222211243.009e9120@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tramila wrote:
>I've been told that the list is full of INTJ's and INTP's but that
>there is not a huge Vila following. Could it be that the Vila fans
>are in the E's category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.)
Could be, although it might go as much by temperament types as by I-E
classification. Cyberspace in general is crawling with INTs, because
although they form a very small percentage of the general population, they
often gravitate to techie fields and hence to an online presence.
Vila's a classic ESFP.
Of course, Keirsey claims people tend to be attracted to their polar
opposites in M-B terms, which should mean that the INTJs on the list would
*like* Vila.
I'm an INTJ (very), I don't like Vila, and I think Keirsey is full of beans
on that point. Actually, the characters I like seem to come from a wide
range of types, but liking a fictional character doesn't necessarily mean
I'd want to be around him in real life. There are a couple of uptight SJs
in other fandoms whom I'm very fond of, but I wouldn't want to have to deal
with either of them up close on a daily basis. There are several SPs who
might be fun to hang out with, though I don't think I would get seriously
attached to them, and there are a few NFs whose intriguing qualities equal
or outweigh their irritating ones. (I find just about all NFs irritating,
but some of them fascinate me too.) However, the characters I feel a stong
affinity with generally turn out to be my fellow NTs.
(Mind you, while I don't like Vila, I don't dislike him nearly as much as I
do Cally, an NF who is all annoying and not fascinating at all as far as
I'm concerned.)
--
- Lisa
home: <lcw@dallas.net> work: <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:43:01 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test
Message-ID: <34F0F045.7A1C@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Tramila dear, I will hold your hand if you'll trust me not to shove you
out an airlock. I may be an Avon fan, but Vila is very adorable and
while I understand Avon's ways of thinking, I am not a dangerous person,
but very open and caring. :^)
Avona
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:46:15 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: pussnboots@geocities.com
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: safety
Message-ID: <34F0F107.F1C@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Pat Patera wrote:
>
> brent@ntr.net wrote:
> ...
> > Really, I suppose I should have known that attacking Avon's character (moral
> > fabric, not the character himself) would have raised the ire of his
> > champions,
> ...
> Better not! When aroused, an Avon champion tends to raise and wag an
> alarmingly red A.S.S. in the air.
>
> Pat P
I absolutely refuse the A.S.S. acronym. I am an Avon's Angel (what Paul
said the show's name should've been changed to after Gareth left).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:21:12 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test
Message-ID: <34F0EB28.6F97@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tramila wrote:
> ... Could it be that the Vila fans are in the E's
> category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.)... I'm just not up for
> these deep 'I' discussions...
>
> <Tramila looks over to Pat Patera and cries out for her hand to be held
> because she is truly scared.>
Don't believe a word of this, folks. Crowds silently part to let Tramila
pass when she is in full con costume. Battle-scarred warriors step
aside; acid-drooling aliens skitter to the sidewalls. you get the
picture.
> Chapter Member and Pres of VICE
> Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
V.I.C.E. I like it! Move over, B.I.T.C.H. Shove it aside, A.S.S., Roll
up your turf, Tarrant Nostra, there's a new kid on the block and he's
packing a full bottle of soma.
Panicked Pat P
P.S. Don't you mean Vila's Instantly Corruptible Element?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:55:34 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <34F0F336.5540@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Vila's a classic ESFP.
>
> Of course, Keirsey claims people tend to be attracted to their polar
> opposites in M-B terms, which should mean that the INTJs on the list would
> *like* Vila.
Hmm, I'm an Avon fan who took an immediate liking to Tramila,
self-proclaimed Vila-type. I've gotta take this tesst soon and see what
I am.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:50:49 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <3a65269d.34f0f21c@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Thanks for the site, Lisa. Took the test, turned up as an INTP, for
whatever that's worth. Can I still like Vila? He's only a shadow's breath from
being my favorite character, but I wouldn't want to break out of my type.....
Deborah Rose
" Einstein? Marie Curie? Me? Go Awaaaaayyyy..."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:12:12 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] My Keirsey character sorter score.
Message-ID: <34F0F71C.D95@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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If anyone's curious, I just took the short version of the test.
I have an I score of 9/10, and a J of 5/10
It classified me as Rational:NT, with a variant of INTJ.
But it scored me
NT=31
NF=39
SJ=46
SP=40
Some of the questions were very hard to make a decision on. I might take
it on another night to see if the scor changes.
By the way. I intend to quit my office job and run an art gallery with
my husband where we will sell our own creations. Does that sound like an
INTJ type?
The graph representation gave me an artist score of four, behind an
idealist score of 5 and a rational score of 6. Guardian scored at 3.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:17:04 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <l03130305b116a545a642@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tramila wrote:
>
>>I've been told that the list is full of INTJ's and INTP's but that
>>there is not a huge Vila following. Could it be that the Vila fans
>>are in the E's category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.)
Perhaps the Vila fans keep quiet ;)
I've taken the test at keirsey.com several times, and have come out as
ISTJ, ISFJ and INTJ on different occasions. Unequivocally I (generally
100%), pretty much a fence sitter on S/N and T/F (slightly to one side or
other of 50%). I guess this may be related to mood at the time :). Anyway,
I'd rate myself as a Vila fan - he's certainly near the top of the list,
along with a certain computer tech. And for different reasons.
Hmm, maybe I'm just a natural fence-sitter. (ouchie!)
Lisa said:
>I'm an INTJ (very), I don't like Vila, and I think Keirsey is full of beans
>on that point.
I'm not familiar with this expression (in this context). Do you mean
Keirsey is talking a load of rubbish? (for those who are interested, "full
of beans" to me means lively and exuberant).
>Actually, the characters I like seem to come from a wide
>range of types, but liking a fictional character doesn't necessarily mean
>I'd want to be around him in real life.
Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), while I lust
after Avon from afar, I don't think I'd like to be around him IRL. I'd
love to take Vila out for a beer.
>(Mind you, while I don't like Vila, I don't dislike him nearly as much as I
>do Cally, an NF who is all annoying and not fascinating at all as far as
>I'm concerned.)
I do like Cally, too - I've always been intrigued by unusual powers in a
person. I have a range of fantasy daydreams, including being a telepath, a
large feline (eg the Hani, for those who've read CJ Cherryh's Chanur
series) or a dragon. I'm just waiting for the opportunity to try these out
in a role-playing game.
ttfn, Nicola (prattling again)
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:50:57 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
CC: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <34F10031.15FF@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), while I lust
> after Avon from afar, I don't think I'd like to be around him IRL. I'd
> love to take Vila out for a beer.
I tested as an INTJ and I consider Vila one of my favorite characters,
and one of the few I might like in real life, although I would proabably
decide he was a lech and get disgusted.
The only one I'm sure I'd like is Cally; next to her Dayna and Avon. (I
like to think I could get Avon to relax a little and be more
expressive.) I like Dayna because there's no pretense in her. If she
liked me okay, we'd be giggling away in minutes. Cally is the one I
think I am most actually like, even if I scored in the same catagory as
Avon. I'm very empathic... I just didn't test that way. Is it how the
questions are phrased, or the state of mind I went in with?
I'm also not exactly acting reserved right now.
I don't lust after Avon, oddly enough. I think he'd be horrible to be in
love with, because he'd always be pushing me away. Because I am
reserved, I _need_ to feel the other person is crazy about me in order
to loosen up. But I'd like to help him realize _other_ aspects of his
personality, be a person he could trust, and put some balance in that
man's extreme life.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:51:08 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222223140.006a0bd8@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
AChevron@aol.com wrote:
>Thanks for the site, Lisa. Took the test, turned up as an INTP, for
>whatever that's worth. Can I still like Vila? He's only a shadow's
>breath from being my favorite character, but I wouldn't want to break
>out of my type.....
I think you're allowed. Can't say much for your taste, of course...
(I would peg Avon as a probable INTP. A case could be made for his being
INTJ, but I think at heart he's an INTP who tries to pass himself off as an
INTJ. The two types are very similar, anyhow.)
--
- Lisa
home: <lcw@dallas.net> work: <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:58:58 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <l03130307b116af6e09a3@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I said:
>> Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), while I lust
>> after Avon from afar, I don't think I'd like to be around him IRL. I'd
>> love to take Vila out for a beer.
and Helen replied:
>I tested as an INTJ and I consider Vila one of my favorite characters,
>and one of the few I might like in real life, although I would proabably
>decide he was a lech and get disgusted.
*chuckle* seems a likely scenario. Although I'd probably get sick of his
putting himself down all the time. Does anyone else suspect this sort of
behaviour is fishing for a compliment? or alternatively a form of
self-preservation. I guess it would depend on the situation - whether he's
socialising with a pretty lady, or faced with being volunteered for a
dangerous mission.
[snippage]
>I'm also not exactly acting reserved right now.
Yeah, I tend to be more out-going with strangers on-line than in person.
Y'all shoulda seen how I used to behave in my MUD/MOO days! :) But I
actually think of myself as pretty reserved.
>I don't lust after Avon, oddly enough. I think he'd be horrible to be in
>love with, because he'd always be pushing me away. Because I am
>reserved, I _need_ to feel the other person is crazy about me in order
>to loosen up. But I'd like to help him realize _other_ aspects of his
>personality, be a person he could trust, and put some balance in that
>man's extreme life.
I find it hard to define why I find Avon attractive - and I think this
subject has been done to death on several occasions. (Doesn't mean we can't
raise it again, imo ;).) All I know is, I hear that voice, or catch a
certain facial expression, and Intellect and Reason get hauled out into an
alley, beaten and left for dead by the Gland Gang.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:15:21 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: brent@ntr.net
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake
Message-ID: <34F105EA.5E42@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> AVON: "Is it true?"
> BLAKE: "Avon, it's me, Blake."
> AVON: "Stand still."
>
> Blake momentarily stops moving.
>
> AVON: "Have you betrayed us? Have you betrayed me?"
>
> During the next exchange, Blake underestimates the danger he is in and
> starts walking toward Avon.
>
> BLAKE: "Tarrant doesn't understand. I set all of this up. Avon, I was
> waiting for you."
>
> Bang, bang, bang.
I think a "Yes" or "No" question is best answered "No," before any
further explanation is given. Especially when you're pressed for time
because someone called security.
Just a thought about not running into a hole in the ground, doing your
research first... your ship has crashed, the planet has ground troops
and bountyhunters looking for you. A hole in the ground with a supposed
friend would be the safest place to go... assuming your other friend
doesn't bolt out while you're bolting in and tell you you've been
betrayed.
Oh, right; Avon should let himself be killed and give himself a moral
victory, just like in Orbit. I keep forgetting what Avon should do.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:25:10 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
CC: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <34F10836.6319@jps.net>
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> >I tested as an INTJ and I consider Vila one of my favorite characters,
> >and one of the few I might like in real life, although I would proabably
> >decide he was a lech and get disgusted.
>
> *chuckle* seems a likely scenario. Although I'd probably get sick of his
> putting himself down all the time. Does anyone else suspect this sort of
> behaviour is fishing for a compliment? or alternatively a form of
> self-preservation. I guess it would depend on the situation - whether he's
> socialising with a pretty lady, or faced with being volunteered for a
> dangerous mission.
I think he is _able_ to put himself down because he is happy with who he
is. Avon has trouble with even a hint of being imperfect, because he is
_not_ happy with himself. I used to do the self-deprecation (as a way of
getting laughs and compliments, but have found it harder as I have
learned people actually sometimes _believe_ people who put themselves
down)
> I find it hard to define why I find Avon attractive - and I think this
> subject has been done to death on several occasions. (Doesn't mean we can't
> raise it again, imo ;).) All I know is, I hear that voice, or catch a
> certain facial expression, and Intellect and Reason get hauled out into an
> alley, beaten and left for dead by the Gland Gang.
He's attractive. In Paul Darrow's balding, wrinkly present-day presence,
I thought my knees would collapse under me and my heart pounded away.
But I have brains and even at his most attractive, I know he would not
be good for me... but then, if I was face-to-face, brains might give way
to glands. Avon has, one can assume the same degree of charisma, but he
wouldn't be a chain smoker. And if grabbed me in one of those famous
Avon embraces... smooches to forget the future for!
Okay, I guess I _am_ a lust-bunny for Avon, after all.
Yes, I think being on-line really helps us Reserved types scrap the
reservations. I would blush and die to say these things to strangers in
person. "Smooches?"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:13:38 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222211338.006aa21c@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tramila wrote:
>> ... Could it be that the Vila fans are in the E's category like me?
(I'm an ESFJ.)... I'm just >>not up for these deep 'I' discussions...
>>
>> <Tramila looks over to Pat Patera and cries out for her hand to be held
>> because she is truly scared.>
>Don't believe a word of this, folks. Crowds silently part to let Tramila
>pass when she is in full con costume. Battle-scarred warriors step
>aside; acid-drooling aliens skitter to the sidewalls. you get the picture.
Oh Pat. you are sooo....
Sure I can play in full costume but in depth conversation is your specialty.
(Note: You have never been to a con until you see Pat in her full
puss-n-boots costume. <meow>)
>> Chapter Member and Pres of VICE
>> Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
>
>V.I.C.E. I like it! Move over, B.I.T.C.H. Shove it aside, A.S.S., Roll
>up your turf, Tarrant Nostra, there's a new kid on the block and he's
>packing a full bottle of soma.
Tramila grabs her bottle and grins widely.
>Panicked Pat P
>P.S. Don't you mean Vila's Instantly Corruptible Element?
Oh NO! Never. We Vila-types just want to INTIMATELY snuggle up to our
Soma-drinking fav and plan corruption to the max.
Tramila
Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:59:22 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222205922.006aa21c@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tramila dear, I will hold your hand if you'll trust me not to shove you
>out an airlock. I may be an Avon fan, but Vila is very adorable and
>while I understand Avon's ways of thinking, I am not a dangerous person,
>but very open and caring. :^)
>
>Avona
Tramila looks at Avona's name and wonders.
Oh...All right. <looks around in a nervous, Vila manner> ...but
just....let's just not go to Malodar. OK. <smiles>
Tramila takes a swig of her Soma for reassurrance.
Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:43:33 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <34F10C85.2426@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Tramila wrote:
>
> >Tramila dear, I will hold your hand if you'll trust me not to shove you
> >out an airlock. I may be an Avon fan, but Vila is very adorable and
> >while I understand Avon's ways of thinking, I am not a dangerous person,
> >but very open and caring. :^)
> >
> >Avona
>
> Tramila looks at Avona's name and wonders.
> Oh...All right. <looks around in a nervous, Vila manner> ...but
> just....let's just not go to Malodar. OK. <smiles>
>
> Tramila takes a swig of her Soma for reassurrance.
> Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
> Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
I never cared for Malodar. Too many swamps, too much gravity, and too
few landing places. How does Freedom City sound instead?
-- Avona
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:31:50 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes
Message-Id: <l03130308b116b61098cd@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
[ow - snipped myself as well as Helen :)]
>I used to do the self-deprecation (as a way of
>getting laughs and compliments, but have found it harder as I have
>learned people actually sometimes _believe_ people who put themselves
>down)
And sometimes the self-deprecatee starts to believe it themselves - not good.
[snipped myself again]
>He's attractive. In Paul Darrow's balding, wrinkly present-day presence,
>I thought my knees would collapse under me and my heart pounded away.
Lucky, lucky you :)
I recently saw an ep of Pie in the Sky in which Paul Darrow appeared - I
have to say I was temporarily shocked at the contrast against 20 years ago.
Ah well, he's not Cliff Richard (thank deity-of-choice!). But he still had
that presence, and, though he didn't speak much until the climactic scene,
that wonderful gravelly voice. If anyone else knows the ep I mean (have to
look up the title), did you notice a certain familiarity about the end of
that scene?
>But I have brains and even at his most attractive, I know he would not
>be good for me... but then, if I was face-to-face, brains might give way
>to glands.
I think this is part of the fantasy we build around the show - going from
the events of canon, to how the characters interact, to how we might
interact with the characters. Not necessarily how one would behave IRL
>Avon has, one can assume the same degree of charisma, but he
>wouldn't be a chain smoker.
Eeech, no! Not in my fantasies ;) Although, where did I think that voice
was marinated? :\
>And if grabbed me in one of those famous
>Avon embraces... smooches to forget the future for!
Apart from the taste of ash-tray :(
>Okay, I guess I _am_ a lust-bunny for Avon, after all.
See? The Lysator Blakes 7 On-Line Therapy Group has brought you
face-to-face with your true self :)
>Yes, I think being on-line really helps us Reserved types scrap the
>reservations. I would blush and die to say these things to strangers in
>person. "Smooches?"
Hmm, I wonder how I'd behave if I met you all in person. With such a
foundation to build on, and our shared interest to kick-start the
conversation, I might drop that reserved persona and try out the wild-child
lurking in the back of my psyche 8)
Anyway, my tummy is making threats - something about a hostile takeover if
I don't drop this and go and find it some dinner. I'll respond to any
replies in the morning.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:56:38 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
CC: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes
Message-ID: <34F10F97.4F96@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> >And if grabbed me in one of those famous
> >Avon embraces... smooches to forget the future for!
>
> Apart from the taste of ash-tray :(
But, I don't think _Avon_ the character would smoke. Too
life-threatening. He also never smokes in any episode (though we do see
him stick gum under a console). I'm not mixing the character with the
actor. I didn't try to get Paul to kiss me, due to the ash-tray factor.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:26:52 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222212652.00727208@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Vila's a classic ESFP.
He is??? Coool!!!!
>> Of course, Keirsey claims people tend to be attracted to their polar
>> opposites in M-B terms, which should mean that the INTJs on the list would
>> *like* Vila.
nah! Avon types are probably just as annoyed with Vila as Avon was.
<ducking>
>Hmm, I'm an Avon fan who took an immediate liking to Tramila,
oh thank you. You have been so kind to me and I really appreciate it.
>self-proclaimed Vila-type. I've gotta take this tesst soon and see what
>I am.
Yes. please do. It doesn't take long and it is so much fun to know and
comtemplate.
Here are the URL's just in case you or anyone else on the list doesn't have
it.
http://www.keirsey.com/cgi-bin/keirsey/newkts.cgi
http://keirsey.com/
Tramila
Proud Defender of Vila
Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:39:22 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222213922.0072c990@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Okay, I guess I _am_ a lust-bunny for Avon, after all.
>
>Yes, I think being on-line really helps us Reserved types scrap the
>reservations. I would blush and die to say these things to strangers in
>person. "Smooches?"
LOL.
We extroverts never have a problem with this. (Did I mention that I score
10 to 0 in favor of the Big E.? hehehehe
From a member of the V.I.C.E. squad.
Tramila
Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:51:22 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222234629.0069e32c@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Nicola Collie wrote:
>I'm not familiar with this expression (in this context). Do you mean
>Keirsey is talking a load of rubbish?
Yes. Probably related to the connection between beans and the production of
wind.
>(for those who are interested, "full of beans" to me means lively and
>exuberant).
I know it that way too, but only when applied to animals (usually horses.)
--
- Lisa
home: <lcw@dallas.net> work: <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:09:29 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
CC: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <34F11299.324F@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> We extroverts never have a problem with this. (Did I mention that I score
> 10 to 0 in favor of the Big E.? hehehehe
>
What about introverts who _fake_ being extorverts? I did that for a few
years, and can still do it when the need arises. I love being on stage,
by the way-- I'm reserved mostly 'cause I'm scared people won't like
_me_-- acting solves the problem by turning me into someone else. Any
other "I" types feel that way?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:40:25 -0800
From: Jacquelyn Taylor <Ultmtthrll@ibm.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Grandstanding
Message-ID: <34F119D9.225C@ibm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Pat P wrote:
>>>Grandstanding in the political arena is not a bad thing; it is a good
thing, a necessary thing. For how else can one get the public's (or the
crew's) attention, jar them out of their internal dialogue and kindle
them to action? Yes, Blake grandstanded on many occasions - but not
nearly enough. He should have been grandstanding for audiences of entire
planets, so that the populace would embrace the idea of Strength Through
Unity. (see? Servalan was the better politician. No wonder she was in
control!)
Blake's charisma is only hinted at, such as when Governor LeGrande says
"No, you are the only one they would all follow." Evidently Blake once
had this ability, and demonstrated it in mobilizing Earth rebels
(Freedom Party). But he has lost it by the time we meet him on board the
London. Or has he? He mobilized the prisoners to act. Blake earned the
Liberator. The others never really contest that fact, not even Avon. We
humans respect the ability to grandstand. Look at how we idolize rock
stars, etc. The more outrageous their grandstanding (Madonna, Prince,
Aerosmith, Mick Jagger) the more we love them.
Pat P>>>>
This talk of grandstanding has driven me to ye ol' American Heritage
Dictionary where to "grandstand" means to "perform ostentatiously for an
audience." And as I catch my breath before looking up "ostentatious" as
the American Heritage is a biceps builder of a book - I read a little
further on on your post about Madonna and Prince and hey, this is BLAKE
we're talking about. Modest Blake. He doesn't have an Ego. He doesn't
even own a studded bra or purple wig!
For an example of MY definition of grandstanding, there's Avon's
"wading in blood" speech from "Star One". Or check out Brian Blessed,
late of Cygnus Alpha. Or if you prefer to see a subtler style of
grandstanding (if there is such a thing), observe how the clone queen in
Weapon descends stairs. Contrast that with the way Blake stumbles down
his in "Blake." Well he glanced at his feet as if he MIGHT stumble.
Blake is known throughout the Fed universe not because he runs around
the galaxy grandstanding but because he runs around being nettlesome and
a pest. I doubt he gives himself much thought at all, or thinks about
his "reputation" as such.
Ah, just thought of an example of Blake grandstanding in true pest
fashion. The end bit in Project Avalon where he stands there with the
Avalon android and the deadly blue sphere and explains the deal to the
people there. I suspect he rather enjoyed that.
<I'm quoting your post out of order>
Pat P wrote:
>>>>>> I like to think this is how Avalon worked; quietly, behind the scenes,
knitting together a coalition of worlds. And this is the sad irony about
Blake; that whatever the Federation did to his mental state, it caused
him to put personal revenge (blowing up the odd base here and there)
before the real power of politics - forming coalitions.>>>>>>>
He blows up the odd base here and there not out of revenge but because
he's not foolish enough to take on the entire Space Command at once. If
he didn't have a ship and was ground-based, he would be organizing like
Avalon (as he did post-Star One?).
And I've not seen him as big on revenge or he would've taken out Travis
in Duel and Gambit. In every case he readjusted his focus to include the
bigger picture. He wants to destroy the Federation but not for what it
did to him - but for what it has done and IS doing to millions of
people. He risks his life for people he doesn't even know (as Avon once
put it). For people who don't even know HIM. Are these the acts of
someone big on Ego?
>>>>>PS Does this let Tramilla off the hook for further elaboration on her
grandstanding remark?>>>>
I am prepared to relent :-). Sorry for zapping you, Tramila. I was
<ahem> grandstanding at the time.
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 05:46:00 GMT
From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Families
Message-Id: <199802230601.GAA13897@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just wanted to chime in here as one of those who =did= think that we were
initially intended to believe that Tyce was Sarkoff's mistress rather than
his daughter. I thought that we were supposed to despise him at first as
someone who was not only shirking his responsibilities but playing the old
goat with a woman young enough to be his daughter-- and then, graduallly, to
form a better opinion of him, strengthened by the revelation that Tyce was
his daughter.
As for their bickering, IMO it could have been interpreted as indicating
that their relationship was not one of affection but of commerce, and her
surliness was that of a disgruntled employee.
As for what we were supposed to think Del Grant's relationship with Anna
was, I'm not sure, because that episode-- together with "Rumours"-- had been
described to me in detail before I ever saw it. But the possibility that we
were =not= initially supposed to realize he was her brother strikes me as
plausible, and I'll keep it in mind the next time I re-watch.
Sarah T.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:37:51 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <34F0FD1F.7BD@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nicola Collie wrote:
> I'm not familiar with this expression (in this context). Do you mean
> Keirsey is talking a load of rubbish?
yes, she does
> (for those who are interested, "full of beans" to me means lively and exuberant).
You're thinking of Mexican Jumping Beans :D
>
> Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), ...
This reminds me of a line from the book: "INTJs like to dialogue on the
7th plane of irreality." Yes, many people find INTJs boring. (That's why
we're droning on on this list) Would you *really* want to listen to Avon
and Orac discussing Particle Physics all nite?
> I'd love to take Vila out for a beer.
Can I join the party?
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:46:16 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test
Message-ID: <34F0FF18.35E2@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
AChevron@aol.com wrote:
>
> Thanks for the site, Lisa. Took the test, turned up as an INTP, for
> whatever that's worth. Can I still like Vila?
Of course you can! Avon likes Vila (for all his posturing, of course he
does; Vila is a welcome breath of fresh air into his vault of
ponderances. Vila is a chortling stream frolicking thru the desert of
Avon's seriousness. Vila is a surprise, a pinata, a pain in the logic.
Vila reminds Avon that not everybody is so dang focused on perfection.
With Vila, Avon can relax and even (dare I say it?) laugh.
>
> " Einstein? Marie Curie? Me? Go Awaaaaayyyy..."
You must admit that the results of this test (and the book even more so
than the web site) forces one to take a hard, honest look at themselves
and their behaviors. Sometimes you realize that the person others see is
not the person you think you are inside your own head!
Pat P
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #58
*************************************