From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #64 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/64 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 64 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Seek-Locate-Destroy 2/2 Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test [B7L] Avon and Blake Re: [B7L] Avon and Blake Re: [B7L] Deliverance weapons Re: [B7L] Seek-Locate-Destroy 1/2 [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake (and Tarrant) [B7L] re: safety [B7L] re: safety [B7L] re: safety [B7L] Re Space Island One [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna [B7L] Avon and Blake [B7L] Conventions and weopans Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] re: safety Re: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake (and Tarrant) Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit [B7L] B7 and Meyers-Brigs Re: [B7L] Re: Alphas Re: [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:28:50 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: <888424145.1015662.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain kindly responded > I suppose the answer, from a dramatic rather than scientific angle, is > that Tarrant could have mannged that but Avon couldn't (since Tarrant is > the Heroic Ace Pilot and Avon is the Cold Calculating Computer Genius). true, but not very useful in these particular circumstances I was thinking of Orac piloting the ship, but for some reason he doesn't seem to be that good at manipulating devices via his computer link. Vila says Orac is slower than him at operating the teleporter doesn't he? Another victory for carbon-based life forms. This is the clincher.. > There will be an optimum height > (and corresponding velocity) which can be attained with the least fuel > consumption. If that minimum fuel requirement exceeds the onboard > reserves, no stable orbit is achievable. So I will presume that stable orbit is less expensive in terms of fuel than escape from the gravity well, and can then be maintained indefinitely, and I will presume that achieving it is an easier piloting task than safe touchdown. And I get the lads floating around in freefall thrown in (as it were) for free! Result! > I will offer this list a special discount rate for consultancy. Now if you actually worked as a consultant you would know that the client never pays unless they have committed themselves to it in writing :-) And not always then. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:09:23 -0800 From: Jay To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980225090923.006d0964@succeed.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:24 PM 2/24/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Loose is not how I'd describe some of those confections ;) While I'm >> fantasising, does anyone know Jacqueline/Servalan's height etc? For some >> reason I thought she's tall and slender, but I've looked more closely since >> this subject came up, and now I'm not so sure. She's almost as curvy as >> me... but I'm a lofty 5'2". I'd feel silly in a style designed for a >> giraffe. > > >_Not_ tall. She wears heels, and still has to crane her neck to look at >Avon. But the three of us are apparently perfectly proportioned. I think >she's closer to your height than my 5'6". > Damn, those gowns will be way too short for me then:-). I'd tower over her at 5'9". Jay 100% Avon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:22:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Alison Page wrote: > Iain kindly responded > > > I suppose the answer, from a dramatic rather than scientific angle, is > > that Tarrant could have mannged that but Avon couldn't (since Tarrant is > > the Heroic Ace Pilot and Avon is the Cold Calculating Computer Genius). > > true, but not very useful in these particular circumstances > > I was thinking of Orac piloting the ship, but for some reason he doesn't > seem to be that good at manipulating devices via his computer link. There's a comedy slash story in there somewhere. Vila > says Orac is slower than him at operating the teleporter doesn't he? > Another victory for carbon-based life forms. > > > > This is the clincher.. > > > There will be an optimum height > > (and corresponding velocity) which can be attained with the least fuel > > consumption. If that minimum fuel requirement exceeds the onboard > > reserves, no stable orbit is achievable. > > So I will presume that stable orbit is less expensive in terms of fuel than > escape from the gravity well, This isn't _necessarily_ the case. "Crashing", in this context, really means the orbit is so elliptical that it intersects the ground. If you want to transfer to a safe orbit, you have to do two things: 1) Climb to the height you want 2) Burn the motors horizontally to get up enough horizontal speed that your orbit is circular enough to miss the ground. Now, under most circumstances this will indeed consume less fuel than reaching escape velocity - if you plan on doing this manuever from the beginning of the flight. However, if you've been barrelling straight up planning to reach escape velocity, by the time you realise there's a problem it might actually need more fuel to achieve a parking orbit than to escape. Of course, the parameters here can be fiddled at will to match the writer's desires. I rather doubt that Egrorian would overlook this possibility: but then again, he does have a few endearing little personality quirks that may from time to time get in the way of his scientific genius. > and can then be maintained indefinitely, and > I will presume that achieving it is an easier > piloting task than safe touchdown. And I get the lads floating around in > freefall thrown in (as it were) for free! Result! I don't know what kind of story you're writing here, but you might like to bear in mind that fluids in free fall tend to float around in little spherical globules, and can do really nasty things to delicate equipment if they're not collected (a tricky procedure). > > I will offer this list a special discount rate for consultancy. > > Now if you actually worked as a consultant you would know that the client > never pays unless they have committed themselves to it in writing :-) And > not always then. Oh well, I'll just continue to draw my meager stipend from the public purse. I guess I'm not really cut out to be a capitalist. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:22:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Seek-Locate-Destroy 2/2 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 24 Feb, NWOutsider wrote: > YADI (yadi, yadi, yadi): Yet Another Dropped Invention. Repeatedly in > the series, inventions are introduced and never heard of again. The > many designer contagions, for example. This time it's the teleport > tracking device, MSD. Presumably left-over from the aquatar > project and never heard of again. I always assumed the Molecular Shift Detector was used in future episodes but never mentioned. Don't you ever wonder why they teleport down outside buildings so often, rather than directly into them as would seem to involve a lot less effort? It makes sense if they are trying to avoid being picked up on an MSD. > > Hit with a feather: Cally, because of her skeletal build, is not entirely > believable in her fight scene. I'm glad it's there, of course, and cheer > her on, but she looks like she wouldn't be able to move that guard > even if she threw herself across the room at him. I salute her martial > skills, though, and admire her fortitude while being drugged, tortured, > dragged down a hall, and being called "it": and "girl." What, if anything, > did she tell Travis under torture... She told him the range of the teleport for starters, because later in the episode, Travis knew when Liberator was out of teleport range. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:49:59 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" me: >> Loose is not how I'd describe some of those confections ;) While I'm >> fantasising, does anyone know Jacqueline/Servalan's height etc? For some >> reason I thought she's tall and slender, but I've looked more closely since >> this subject came up, and now I'm not so sure. She's almost as curvy as >> me... but I'm a lofty 5'2". I'd feel silly in a style designed for a >> giraffe. > Helen: >_Not_ tall. She wears heels, and still has to crane her neck to look at >Avon. But the three of us are apparently perfectly proportioned. I think >she's closer to your height than my 5'6". > Of course we're perfectly proportioned! after all, we are human ;) My ever-loving SIL (who is, incidentally, built along similar lines to me) watched me climbing headfirst into the back seat of a Mini and instantly appointed me President of the Mile-Wide Club. *chuckle* Gotta love that girl... ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: 25 Feb 1998 11:53:46 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon and Blake Message-ID: I'm way behind on my email reading so this may be an old subject but I've seen a great many posts from Sue Clerc that indicate she's of the opinion that if you're an Avon fan you MUST be a Blake hater. Hence, her rude and insulting responses to Avon fans. Or am I misinterpreting??? I'm a raging Avon fan, but I also like Blake. I like him for his contribution to the show, for his wonderful interaction with Avon, and for his poor mixed-up self. I've always maintained that he added a special presence to the show that was noticably lacking when he left. That doesn't mean season 3 and 4 suffered from his absence, though. As an Avon fan, I enjoyed the last two seasons just because Avon was there. I like his interaction with the new crew, and I've recently come to very much like Tarrant, and HIS contribution to the show (which is greatly underrated). I can sympathize with Blake fans who lost their favorite character after the second season; I'm not sure I would have even continued watching if it had been Avon who left. But to stamp, fold, and file me into the category of "Blake Hater" just because I'm an Avon fan is stupid. Carol K (proud member of A.S.S.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:05:56 -0800 From: Julia To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Blake Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980225120556.006dd3b0@succeed.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:53 AM 2/25/98 -0800, Carol K wrote: > >But to stamp, fold, and file me into the category of "Blake Hater" just because >I'm an Avon fan is stupid. I quite agree. Out of the regular characters, there is no-one I hate or dislike. I just like some more than others. Blake is actually about 4th on my list, after Avon, Vila, and Travis (ok, ok, so I have a thing for black leather clad guys :-)). Jay 100% Avon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:06:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance weapons Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 24 Feb, STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk wrote: > > Well I'm still planning on bringing imipak and last I heard > Harriet was too. So which of you has which part? Inquiring minds want to know. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:55:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Seek-Locate-Destroy 1/2 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 25 Feb, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > I just want to mention something. > > I've never known people who thought Blake was bad. Sometimes we mock him > for looking like he needs caffiene very badly (how do you run a > rebellion when you act half-awake?) but he really can't help that, it's > how his face is built. I thought _everyone_ thought Blake was a hero. I > spend more time explaining/defending Avon, because he is attacked > frequently as a bad guy. > > Are there really people who think Blake doesn't have good intentions, at > least? Sadly there are. I've come across them, though luckily there aren't that many. (From comments by Gareth in an interview in Horizon, I think he's come across them too. He saw Blake as dedicated to his cause.) Avon is rarely attacked as a bad guy per se. I think he gets his bad points siezed on when someone else tries to present him as a saint. The aim is more to show that he has both his good points and his bad points and that the combination makes him what he was. If he wasn't flawed, he wouldn't have half the appeal that he does. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:39:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Content-Disposition: inline I've been gone a while, my life being in high gear (conversion of a 200-attorney law firm from DOS to Windows 95 and Word 97), but decided I could handle this in digest form. A glutton for punishment, that's me. Anyhow, Carol McCoy won't be surprised to see me post this comment about Avon shoving a gun in Tarrant's belly. I still maintain that it is possible from the evidence to show that Avon did that to protect the crew -- to finally alienate them enough to let him go down and take what was probably the biggest risk he'd ever taken on the remotest chance that Blake really was on Terminal. Didn't slow Tarrant down much, did it? Patti ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:08:22 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: <199802252108.QAA29558@yfn.ysu.edu> Patti wrote: > Anyhow, Carol McCoy won't be surprised to see me post this >comment about Avon shoving a gun in Tarrant's belly. I still >maintain that it is possible from the evidence to show that Avon >did that to protect the crew -- to finally alienate them enough >to let him go down and take what was probably the biggest risk >he'd ever taken on the remotest chance that Blake really was on >Terminal. Patti, I like your answer. :) I'd be happy to know that it was all an act to protect Tarrant. > Didn't slow Tarrant down much, did it? Not half a second. It's kind of interesting. If Avon meant it as prevention rather than a real threat, it made him a pretty good actor. Because all of his shipmates bought it as the real thing. On the other hand, he wasn't a very good judge of his shipmates, because it didn't stop them from rushing after him. I wonder if they ever did an instant replay and sorted out this classic B7 misunderstanding. I'm kind of doubting it. Cally's death would have settled a lock over of the subject for those repressed rebel types. Welcome back, Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:10:54 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake (and Tarrant) Message-ID: <199802252110.QAA29931@yfn.ysu.edu> Avona wrote: > I never thought of myself as a cold-blooded killer, but I don't think >of shooting an android as killing. Or do you mean the android has >feelings, dreams, a basically human mind? I'm not talking about the android at all. It's Tarrant's perception of the android that is relevant. It appeared close enough to flesh and blood to him that he couldn't shoot it in the back. Making it unlikely that he's a cold-blooded killer. (It's a reference to Death-Watch.) Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:05:48 +0000 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re: safety Message-ID: <34F487AC.76B3@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > > Perhaps the real question should be "Why did Orac say what he did? Avon, > > *if* he had already thought about it was not acting on it until Orac > > mentioned it. And would Orac have mentioned it if it had been any one > > OTHER than Vila?" > > > Because ORAC wasn't so sure he'd survive the crash, ORAC definitely > didn't want to get tossed out himself, and ORAC likes Avon as much as > ORAC can like someone. But I think ORAC might've been MORE keen to get > rid of anyone he found less amusing than Vila (like Dayna or Tarrant). Orac has a yellow streak even more pronounced than Vila`s. However this has raised another question. Orac managed to get the 2nd DSV to self destruct (Redemption) by *remote controll* or something. So how come he did`nt eject Vila himself? or Avon? OR! I assume he was left on board the shuttle while Avon and Vila talked to Egrorian. So how come he did not *see* (either with the ships inboard or external sensors) what Pinder was actually loading onto the ship? Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:06:04 +0000 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re: safety Message-ID: <34F487BC.70A2@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol A. McCoy wrote: > > Jackie wrote: > > >Would he have spaced himself before or after Orac`s "Vila weighs 73 > >kilos", or would he have continued to try to figure out ways to save > >both him and Vila as the shuttle hit the swamp? > > I think Tarrant would have been well aware of body weight as a final > choice long before Orac presented the "Vila weighs 73 kilos" option. > He'd do his best to avoid that solution, but if it came down to 73 > kilos and no time to do anything else, he'd pop out. > > >After the bullying throughout the 3&4 seasons, I really don`t believe > >that Tarrant would commit suicide so that Vila could live. > > Please present examples of bullying and compare that to incidents > where Tarrant willingly risked his life for his shipmates, including > for Vila in "City at the Edge." When he realized Vila was in trouble, > he was determined to stay and find him even when Avon judged that the > risk factor had gone beyond acceptable levels. If you watch the very first few moments of "City at the Edge" you will see a very precise example of Tarrant bullying Vila. Vila : You can`t make me go". Tarrant: No I can`t. But I can toss you off this ship. I don`t need you." Alittle further on in the arguement: Tarrant: "I can dump you anytime I like, the others would`nt stop me" at which time Vila agrees to go to Keezaarn. After Vila has gone down Avon warns Tarrant to stop picking on Vila. Later on in the episode Avon and Tarrant are debating as to why Avon is the best choice to go down to search for Vila. Avon: "Vila knows howI feel about him." Tarrant: "You despise him." Avon: "Right. But at least I`m consistant about it." All of this *implies* that this is not an isolated incident for Tarrant to *pick on* Vila. As for Tarrant going down to rescue Vila, I`d say it was a guilty conscience, or bravado. Both Avon AND Cally were quite pointed in their condemnation of Tarrant`s attitude towards Vila. A one-off bully-boy tactic from Tarrant would not have produced the reaction it did from any of the others. > > You can't judge a character by one or two moments in the grand scheme > of things. Else we could look at Avon sticking a gun in Tarrant's > belly in "Terminal" and wonder how the same man would be willing to > give his life for Tarrant in "Blake" (take over piloting Scorpio). Perhaps I`m being a bit *picky* here, I took Avon`s actions as part of him trying to make sure the others stayed safe. Also note the rest of the crew`s reactions - they were shocked by Avon`s action, which meant he did not frequently threaten the others (and MEAN it). Ship eating fungus aside, Avon`s actions were supposed to keep the others safe while HE went into danger. Else why would he tell Vila to get the Liberator away when Servalan wanted otherwise (she had the gun in Avon at this point). This gels perfectly with him willingly offering to change places with Tarrant on Scorpio. As far as that goes, Tarrant knows that he is the more experienced pilot, and as such, he knows that there would be a better chance of him crash-landing Scorpio *safely*, than for Avon to keep Scorpio on an even keel long enough for him to reach and operate the Teleport. Perhaps he thought that Avon would do the *noble* thing, and keep him company til they crashed (then again, with Avon evacuating, Scorpio has less weight to carry, thus enabling Tarrant to get the nose up, and crash land onto rather than into the planet.) How am I doing so far? Have I convinced you that Tarrant is a bully, yet? :-> Bye Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:06:17 +0000 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re: safety Message-ID: <34F487C9.5600@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain Coleman wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Alison Page wrote: > > > > > What I really wanted to know wasn't the 'density of a methane atmosphere' > > (although that was, admittedly, what I said) but - given the limited list > > of things we know about Malodour how likely is it that an option to make a > > controlled landing would be an alternative to trying to achieve escape > > velocity? As in so much of B7 I think the answer is that you can assume > > just about anything you like for the sake of a good story. > > I suppose the answer, from a dramatic rather than scientific angle, is > that Tarrant could have mannged that but Avon couldn't (since Tarrant is > the Heroic Ace Pilot and Avon is the Cold Calculating Computer Genius). > > > And while we are on the subject anybody got any thoughts on geosynchronous > > orbit (except it wouldn't be 'geo' becuase the planet is not earth)? > > Malodosynchronous? > > >Don't > > satellites whizz around the earth without using any fuel at all? if they > > got the shuttle craft into a stable orbit then Liberator could match > > velocity and use the teleport (perhaps)? > > A stable orbit is a special case of a more general form of motion, known > as "falling". > > If you step off the top of a high building, you will fall vertically and > go "splat" at the base of the building. If instead you take a running > jump, your horizontal velocity will take you quite far from the building > before you splatter on the ground. You can even imagine going really > really fast, so that you are actually over the horizon when you land. If > you go fast enough (which is pretty fast, let me tell you), you would > never hit the ground, because as you were falling the ground would be > curving beneath you at the same rate, and you would eventually hit the top > of the building from which you launched yourself. Which would be a neat > trick. > > (Note that this argument assumes a spherical Earth with no > atmosphere and only one building. I'm a physicist, and have special > training in making such assumptions. Do not try this at home.) > > The velocity you'd need to carry out this trick would depend on the height > of the tower: the higher the tower, the lower the velocity. This is how > satellites orbit (except without the tower bit), and it's why > weightlessness is referred to as "free-fall" (and why astronauts are > emphatically NOT in "zero-gravity"). > > Now, the higher up you are, the more slowly you orbit. At one particular > height above the Earth, the orbital period is 24 hours. This is a > geosynchronous orbit, so-called because a satellite at this height remains > above the same spot on Earth. This is a useful orbit for communications > satellites, for obvious reasons, and indeed that part of geospace is > getting pretty cluttered. > > Now, to the plight of our valiant heroes. When the shuttle runs out of > fuel, it will exhibit that general class of "falling" motion to which we > alluded earlier. They will experience a sub-optimal flight termination > unless they can go fast enough to orbit. The higher they go, the less > speed they will need (and in any case they will have to be high enough > that atmospheric friction is negligible). Gaining height and gaining > horizontal velocity both require fuel. There will be an optimum height > (and corresponding velocity) which can be attained with the least fuel > consumption. If that minimum fuel requirement exceeds the onboard > reserves, no stable orbit is achievable. Thus the "SPLATT" also alluded to earlier on. Although I would imagine in a marshy area the "Splatt" would also be accompanied by a squelchy "thud". On Maladar would the rescue be organized by Pete Marsh? :-> Bye Jackie (wearing headphones to hide the groans!) > > > Come on, science fans, my story is stuck until I get answers to these vital > > questions. > > > > Alison > > > > Once again finding that yacking about B7 is a pleasant alternative to > > earning a living > > Since I get paid to do physics, the boundaries blur occasionally. Mind > you, I will offer this list a special discount rate for consultancy. > > Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:37:31 GMT From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re Space Island One Message-Id: <298339409MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> Tom said: "Don't worry - you join most of Britland, since most of us don't get satellite. I think we'll all be suffering in silence for a while yet (unless it turns out to be rubbish)" Yes, it's sad that. And given the relationship between satellite and terrestrial, I think it unlikely that one of the main five stations in the UK will consider taking it for some time and it might, like other good series, get lost in the depths of time subject only to the odd mention in trivia quizzes (What was that programme called again?) Sad, because it is turning out good. Tonight's episode was quite amusing (and weirdly called Sarcophagus, given that last week's episode bore more than a passing resemblance to the B7 episode of the same name). The guest star tonight was Tim Woodward who I sort of know. Not as a close friend, but we once used the same pub and occassionally chatted over a pint. Maybe Sky will sell it to the USA and it'll take off and come back over here on terrestrial. Remember, I told you about it first. cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ "The workers united will never be ignited" Guards! Guards! - Terry Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:46:49 +0000 From: Katharine Woods To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna Message-ID: <34F49149.7BEE6823@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicola Collie wrote: > I often feel that Jenna was underdeveloped by the writers, Oh, she was. Both as a pilot, and a smuggler with enough in her past to get her exiled on a ship with murderers and child molesters (yes, I know he wasn't really but that's the crime that got the exile penalty.) > This remark reminds me of an old post of yours from last year that I have > stashed away somewhere, illustrating the ladies' struggle for "clothes > power" with variations on the canonical dialogue. Shall I dig it out? :) Oh, please don't. :-) It's amazing what you can churn out when you're suffering under the curse of Micro$oft. I could send you my rewritten Soolin bit though. I wonder if Jenna and Cally ever quarrelled over the clothes in the Liberator's wardrobe? In which case, judging by the second season's clothing, I think Jenna won. Harriet Monkhouse (being the knowledgable and armed with Imipak person that she is) wrote: > How about The Web, when Cally's being possessed by the Lost? She thanks > Jenna telepathically when, er, I think Jenna has just slapped her in an > attempt to bring her out of it? Does Jenna receive the communication though? If that's the only attempt Cally makes, maybe she doesn't do it again because it fails? Cylan wrote of the alien being in Sarcophagus being overwhelmed by Avon's kiss: > Well, do you blame her, I'd turn to jelly too! No, I blame the script writer for clamping a cliche to her lips that apparently sucks her brains out. And why should this alien being respond in the same way as an Avon groupie? :-) Why should an alien respond to human pheromones even if she's occupying someone who does (maybe)? Katharine (Woods) kjw@whitecrow.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 25 Feb 1998 14:00:13 -0800 From: "Ma.James" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon and Blake Message-ID: >Carol K wrote: >I've seen a great many posts from Sue Clerc that indicate she's of the >opinion that if you're an Avon fan you MUST be a Blake hater. Hence, her >rude and insulting responses to Avon fans. Or am I misinterpreting??? Well, duh, Carol. Where have you been. *I* figured that out a long time ago. Where do you think A.S.S. came from? But Sue's not the only one. It seems most of the Blake fans believe if you're an Avon fan it follows that you HATE Blake -- "They proceed on a false assumption" -- ah, well. Gasp! You don't really expect harmony in a Blake's 7 universe, do you? Shela Ma (an A/T fan) (and card carrying, badge wearing member of A.S.S.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:06:56 +0000 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Conventions and weopans Message-ID: <34F487F0.3A56@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I`ll apologise in advance in case this has already been mentioned before (I mass deleted unread a lot off stuff recently because I did not have the time to read it all). I thought the Deliverence Convention had booked the hotel in its entirety for the convention. Therefore surely ONLY convention attendees and hotel staff will be at the hotel during that weekend. So who among us is going to complain about other attendees in full regalia wearing appropriate weaponry? Nuetral Zone Convention last year allowed costumed personell to wear weaponry - some of whom I saw disappear into Newcastle town centre in full rig-out. And the hotel stayed open to the general public as well - no mass raids by the local anti-terrorist police ( despite Blake & Avon in attendence!). I assume they will do so again this year. If the banning of sci-fi weaponry is becoming a normal thing in the States, perhaps it is just one more "americanism" that we seem to be slavishly following. :-) (just WHO are the colonials now??) Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:16:02 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alison: > >> And while we are on the subject anybody got any thoughts on geosynchronous >> orbit (except it wouldn't be 'geo' becuase the planet is not earth)? Iain: >Malodosynchronous? Malodourous? ttfn, Nicola (whose mind is a maze of twisty little passages, all alike) --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:21:16 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: Subject: Re: [B7L] re: safety Message-Id: <199802252323.RAA19230@pemberton.magnolia.net> Jackie said: >If you watch the very first few moments of "City at the Edge" you will >see a very precise example of Tarrant bullying Vila. > >Vila : You can`t make me go". >Tarrant: No I can`t. But I can toss you off this ship. I don`t need >you." > >Alittle further on in the arguement: > >Tarrant: "I can dump you anytime I like, the others would`nt stop me" Please note that Vila apparently believed that the others wouldn't stop Tarrant. Which makes me wonder how good old Cally and Avon have been treating my favorite thief. Perhaps Tarrant just followed their lead? In my view, Tarrant likely tried everything short of pulling teeth to try to get Vila to go, then finally fell back on bullying. And I can see why, and share his frustration. >at which time Vila agrees to go to Keezaarn. >After Vila has gone down Avon warns Tarrant to stop picking on Vila. Conveniently after the fact. They wait until Tarrant does the dirty work, then criticize him for it. >Later on in the episode Avon and Tarrant are debating as to why Avon is >the best choice to go down to search for Vila. > >Avon: "Vila knows howI feel about him." >Tarrant: "You despise him." >Avon: "Right. But at least I`m consistant about it." So it's okay to despise Vila as long as you're consistent? Doesn't make any sense to me, I'm afraid. >All of this *implies* that this is not an isolated incident for Tarrant >to *pick on* Vila. No, it's not. It happened a few times. But I'd like to point out that *everyone* picked on Vila. It's not an activity peculiar to Tarrant. >As for Tarrant going down to rescue Vila, I`d say it was a guilty >conscience, or bravado. Can't agree here. Tarrant seemed entirely sincere in wanting to go down and rescue Vila. Vila is part of the team, as far as Tarrant's concerned. That he's not acting like a team player is part of Tarrant's frustration with him, but he's still part of the team anyway and deserving of help. And please remember that when it began to get dark on Keezarn, Avon wanted to leave. Tarrant insisted they stay. Avon's funny that way. Perhaps it was getting time for his favorite soap... ;-) >Both Avon AND Cally were quite pointed in their >condemnation of Tarrant`s attitude towards Vila. A one-off bully-boy >tactic from Tarrant would not have produced the reaction it did from any >of the others. Interesting thought--perhaps this had been occurring for awhile. But I can well understand why. Tarrant's from a military background--he's used to having orders obeyed. And Vila is...well, he's Vila. He's lazy, cowardly, and doesn't like to do anything he doesn't want to do. Two people like this are bound to clash. But they do seem to have worked it out later--I don't see a lot of bullying after City. >How am I doing so far? Have I convinced you that Tarrant is a bully, >yet? >:-> No way! :-) Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:37:02 -0500 (EST) From: mmoyer@mto.infi.net (Michelle Moyer) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake (and Tarrant) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:20 AM 2/25/98, Carol A. McCoy wrote: > >Only if you promise to sit still long enough to make placement of >the knife possible. Murder by backstabbing is a difficult to >impossible undertaking. We tend to prefer methods that don't >involve so much personal risk. Carol's favorite method of torture, for example, is to give you cookies and tell you how good your stories are. -- Michelle Moyer mmoyer@mto.infi.net "Batman's car has a morals clause? He kept a young boy in a cave." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:17:24 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louise gently tapped me gently on the shoulder and said: > Nice argument, dear, the only fault being that Orbit > was written by Robert Holmes, not Chris Boucher. 8-) Argh! And if it hadn't been for you meddling kids I've have got away with it, too. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:18 +1100 (EST) From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list) Subject: [B7L] B7 and Meyers-Brigs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well! I finally looked up the websites mentioned, to find out what all this stuff was. Fascinating. I took the test (4 times) and now I know why Avon and Cally are my favourite characters. I've been saying for years that I liked Avon not for the usual lust-after reason, but because I found in him a kindred spirit, and I now have proof that I was right! I'm an INTJ. Okay, so some people think that Avon is an INTP, but, hey, I'm not a *strong* J. Why did I take the test 4 times? Because some of the questions were very much toss-of-the-coin in my first-and-second preferences. Three times, I came up INTJ. The fourth time, I came up INFJ. Which is what I reckon Cally is. So that explains why I like Cally too - I'm like Cally! My NF and NT comes up about equal, actually. So I'm a wonderful and fascinating person, but then you all knew that, didn't you? (Sorry, I'm just feeling blissful that I now understand why I channel Avon so well. And Cally. And I'm of a rare and valuable personality type, whichever one I am. Whee!) (For those what want the scores, on introversion I'm 8/10, judgement, 6/10, NT and NF are 34, SJ around 40 and SP around 50) A Rational Idealist, that's me! (-8 Kathryn Andersen (now I have to go back and read all those Meyers-Brigs postings) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:19:50 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Alphas Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet worries about me too much: > Thanks, Tom, for the list of mentions, especially the fact that most of > them can be attributed to two writers... > > Where have you been lately? Feeling we haven't seen your sig so often. Have I been quiet recently? I hadn't noticed. Apologies to all those who have gone into withdrawal symptoms from the lack of cheesy one-liners, terrible puns and off-topic wibbles from yours truly. Here's one to get you started on the road to junkiedom. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:16:26 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Katherine Woods asked: > Cylan wrote of the alien being in Sarcophagus being overwhelmed by > Avon's kiss: > > > Well, do you blame her, I'd turn to jelly too! > > No, I blame the script writer for clamping a cliche to her lips that > apparently sucks her brains out. And why should this alien being respond > in the same way as an Avon groupie? :-) Why should an alien respond to > human pheromones even if she's occupying someone who does (maybe)? Maybe male pheromones boost the mind powers of Auronar women, so that Cally was able to fight back at the creature hard enough to disrupt its control. Of course, this means that going anywhere near Auron on Valentine's day would require a serious set of mental ear-muffs. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:23:45 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison asked: > And it varies throughout the depth of the atmosphere of course. For > example there are layers of Jupiter's atmosphere which are quite > earth-like in pressure and density aren't there? Nope. Some areas have the same sort of pressure, and some have the same density, but since Earth's is nirogen/oxygen and Jupiter's is mainly hydrogen and methane, the pressure<->density relationship is very different, so I'm willing to bet that at no point is the pressure AND density the same as Earth. Pedantic? Moi? > What I really wanted to know wasn't the 'density of a methane atmosphere' > (although that was, admittedly, what I said) but - given the limited list > of things we know about Malodour how likely is it that an option to make > a controlled landing would be an alternative to trying to achieve escape > velocity? As in so much of B7 I think the answer is that you can assume > just about anything you like for the sake of a good story. Er... phuktifino. If they are only a few kilos too heavy, this would imply that they almost made orbit, but not quite. So once you are down to the only-a-few-kilos too heavy stage, it is far far easier (in terms of fuel usage) to get to orbit than to go all the way down again and then try to shed the speed you gained going down. Of course, by the time Avon & Vila only had to get rid of 70kg, it was far too late. The later you leave it to jettison weight, the more you have to jettison, because all the time you're burning fuel. So when Avon asked how much weight they had to lose, and Orac says 70kg, Avon has a couple of seconds to lose that before the figure goes out of date. But he spends minutes searching for Vila. By the time he'd found, killed and dumped Vila, he would actually have had to dump 500kg or something. So to be honest killing Vila is pointless. Lucky Avon found half a ton of neutron star lying around, isn't it? > And while we are on the subject anybody got any thoughts on > geosynchronous orbit (except it wouldn't be 'geo' becuase the planet > is not earth)? Don't > satellites whizz around the earth without using > any fuel at all? if they got the shuttle craft into a stable orbit > then Liberator could match velocity and use the teleport (perhaps)? Well they don't want a Malosynchronous orbit, they want an orbit that is congruent with Liberator's to allow teleport. However, we might be able to assume that to do a teleport to a planet, because of the reasons given (low relative velocity), the Liberator has to always go into geosynchronous orbit. Unfortunately, in various episodes they make fast passes at planets, getting just within teleport range, doing a 'port and leaving again very fast, and you generally can't do that and get a zero-relative-velocity lock. So there goes that idea. Actually - damn, there goes the whole premise of the ep! Hmmmm... I don't have any good solutions. The only other idea is that Zen has to be able to accurately predict the movements. Except that if Avon just turns the engines off, they'll go completely ballistic, and there are few easier movements to predict. Pass. So, not a very successful brainstorm there - far from helping you I've just shot the whole ep down in flames. Maybe you shouldn't ask me these questions.... Tom "Pandora's Brain" Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:05:04 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom writted on a piece of paper: >Maybe male pheromones boost the mind powers of Auronar women, so that Cally >was able to fight back at the creature hard enough to disrupt its control. > Aargh! Arrgh! No! Don't make me do it! Arrgh! Oh, all right... The twisted off-topic monster at the back of my psyche would just like to share this with you all: The mention of snogging and male pheromones has created one of those inexplicable flashbacks to which I seem to be prone - a memory of some research reported in the news media a while back of relative testosterone levels in the saliva of the kisser and kissee pre- and post- snog. Apparently significant quantities can be transferred by the gentleman to his love, hence the wisecracks among certain un-named members of my social circle about macho he-men and bearded ladies. And that's it, really - apart from some connection with toothbrushing that I can't clearly recall. Damn, now I'm going to have to fire up a lit search... ttfn, Nicola (spinning out on the disinformation carttrack) --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #64 *************************************