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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 111
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Star Cops better than B7!!!!
RE: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Re: Stardrive and Dawn (was re Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Worst openings
[B7L] SFX (was Star cops better than B7!)
RE: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy
[B7L] Credit cards
[B7L] Re: what's so funny?
[B7L] test please ignore
Re: [B7L] Worst openings
Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Re: Paul Darrow
Re: [B7L] Worst openings
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
[B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc.
[B7L] Re: Stardrive and Dawn (was re Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Quotes IRL
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans(Voyager, 7 of 9)
[B7L] Re: Worst openings
Re: [B7L] Re: Worst openings
Re: Re [B7L]: Pressure Point
Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
RE: Re [B7L]: Pressure Point
Re: [B7L] Re: what's so funny?
Re: [B7L] Re: Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] worst openings
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Avon & Cally
Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:44:14 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star Cops better than B7!!!!
Message-ID: <001201be7472$8d981280$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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>Anyway, I'll forgive SFX anything for what they've done on page 23 of
>the main mag
heh heh I've seen it now, and it is worth taking a look at
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:31:32 -0600
From: Reuben Herfindahl <rherf@tursso.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <0F144D2FBA41D211A6A000A0C9DD630DF387@STPNT4>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SupeStud00@aol.com <SupeStud00@aol.com>
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
>
>
> >In a message dated 3/20/99 5:53:25 PM EST,
> msdelta@magnolia.net writes:
> >
> ><< The Next Generation is good, but they'd rather watch
> Voyager and harp on
> > >> at length about how great a charecter Cups of D (opps I
> mean 7 of 9)
> is.
> >>>
> >
> >For the record, she's a wonderful character (7 of 9) whom I feel is
> >shortchanged by a great many female fans because she is very
> physically
> >attractive.
Just so you know, I'm a male fan, and where I do think Jeri Ryan is pretty
good looking, I just don't think she adds as much to the show as is
justified by her outfit. Part of it is that she just doesn't click with me
as a character, but another part of it is that the outfit is so obviously a
play to pick up viewers. Sci-Fi has been saddled with the "busty female"
tack on sterotype for so long, and it has only been lately that it seems to
have started shedding that image. Voyager hasn't helped things much.
It also gets a bit old when the execs think they have to have a "Spock" type
charecter for every series. Tuvok wasn't working so in comes straight faced
7 of 9 with the whole non-emotion/emotion discovery thing again. Yawn- been
there, done that. Break new ground. It's more interesting.
Is there some unwritten law that states that an
> intelligent
> >female must look like Janet Reno to be respected?
No, I know plenty of attractive, intellegent females. I respect them, and
those around them do as well. Sadly, enough I think they have to battle a
bit more for the respect, but that seems to be changing.
I happen
> to think many
> >females feel they fall short in the looks department, and
> thus the reaction
> to
> >7 of 9. I would have liked to have seen more voloptuous femmes on
> >B7.......though we had quite a few attractive female
> characters.....none
> could
> >truly elicit that "umph" reflex that Jeri Ryan does from
> Trek fans. Who
> >knows, B7 might still be showing new eps today...........
> >
I don't know about that. B7 had some very nice looking females. Jenna was
quite good looking. One of the things I love about her charecter is how
often she throws the sterotype back into your face. She uses her charm to
get close to the "baddie" in an episode and then, when the time is right,
overpowers him or defeats him in someway. It's a shame her charecter took
much more of a background role in series 2. She's also the one I wish we
could have seen again in Blake, or I always picture as being key to any PGP
scenario.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:38:50 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stardrive and Dawn (was re Assassin)
Message-ID: <000e01be7479$6e2780a0$b2418cd4@default>
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Harriet wrote:
>Neil wrote, a long time ago but I've been away:
>>Atlan drops a hint that he is not, in fact, a Space Rat
>>at all, but quite what he is instead goes unmentioned -
>>a serious omission (unless it was cut from the original
>>script). To me this echoed the stock reactionary idea
>>that people like me at that time were supposedly being
>>funded from Moscow, and it made me a little bit angry.
>
>Oh - I thought he was a capitalist trying to get control of the shipping
>lanes?
Yeah, I didn't explain this too well - the point is not exactly who or what
Atlan is, more that the Space Rats are the witless pawns he uses to fulfil
his ambitions.
And since we're resurrecting ancient threads, or at least those a week or
more old, I remember something else that someone said that I meant to
comment on but couldn't because of work. (I've just spent 20 mins trawling
through old posts, with no luck). It's the Jenna/Free Trader connection. I
was surprised when I first found fanfic writers setting up a background for
Jenna which hinged on an independent Free Trader society, with dynastic
houses and stuff. Hellhound does it, I believe, and so does Alice Aldridge
in her Gambit saga. All in contradiction of comments in Pressure Point and
The Keeper that suggest Jenna was just another Earther. (Admittedly,
Aldridge does do an extremely good job of depicting the Free Trader society
in her Jenna/Travis epic.)
To me, Jenna saying she wasn't a smuggler but a free trader was more on the
level of 'I'm not a garbage collector, I'm a refuse disposal operative' - a
redefinition to defuse the negative connotations of the popular term and, in
Jenna's case, give her occupation a quasi-legitimate status.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:32:43 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Worst openings
Message-ID: <000f01be7479$6f01b400$b2418cd4@default>
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Avon rubbed his hands with glee as he stared at the calendar. Why, November
was all but over, and in a few short weeks it would be Christmas. Avon did
so _love_ Christmas.
-----------
Blake bounced breezily onto the flight deck, feeling refreshed after a long
and restful sleep. 'Good morning, Avon,' he said cheerfully.
The surly tech looked up from the control panel and tensed within his
brightly studded leather. 'Don't try to manipulate _me_, Blake,' he
snarled.
-----------
'Blake,' growled Avon lustily, 'I want you to give me a shag. Right here
and now.'
'Certainly,' Blake replied, scooping up the glossy-green fish-eating
seabird huddled under the flight controls. 'Here, take it, it's costing me
a fortune in pilchards.'
-----------
So there they were, Blake and Avon, marooned on a desolate lifeless planet,
neither of them knowing how long it would transpire before Liberator could
return to collect them, assuming that indeed the ship would ever return. As
the biting cold gnawed deep into their very bones, both men knew that only
one recourse lay open to them. Blake insisted on making the first move.
'Right,' he said, taking a deep breath. 'I spy, with my little eye...'
---------
Sorry, best I could manage
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:34:07 -0000
From: "Wendy Duffield" <Wendy.Duffield@lysator.liu.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] SFX (was Star cops better than B7!)
Message-Id: <E10P6kJ-0003s7-00@aisle>
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<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>Steve said recently :-
> Anyway, I'll forgive SFX anything for what they've done on page
23 of
> the main mag (the top 50 is a separately numbered pullout). I'm
not
> going to tell you what they've done but I'm sure everyone on this
list
> will love it. I don't want to spoil the surprise. We can discuss it
when
> most people have had a chance to see it. It's brill, it really is.
I agree wholeheartedy with Steve, i went out and bought SFX today
and the bit on page 23 is superb
Please, more people read it so that we can discuss it was Steve
says, it would be good material for the list to chew over !!
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Wendy
<nofill>
mgb@tesco.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I don't give my allegiance at all, i sell my skill "
- Soolin (Power B7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:40:26 -0600
From: Reuben Herfindahl <rherf@tursso.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <0F144D2FBA41D211A6A000A0C9DD630DF389@STPNT4>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lorna B. <msdelta@magnolia.net>
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 4:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
>
>
> >
> >
> >>Reuben said:
> >>
> >>> Fast forward to today. I can't have a discussion about
> Star Trek with
> >>> most younger fans I meet. I get too worked up. The
> Original Trek, is
> >now
> >>> the "moldy" Trek. Dated, boring 60's crap.
> >>> The Next Generation is good, but they'd rather watch
> Voyager and harp on
> >>> at length about how great a charecter Cups of D (opps I
> mean 7 of 9) is.
> >
> >I agree with a lot of your points, but this bit kind of confused me.
> Aren't
> >your own complaints about Voyager almost identical in feeling to the
> >examples you give above of younger fans dismissing the "moldy Trek"?
> >
> >One fan's meat is another fan's poison, after all. :-)
> >
Yeah, they are. Except I still watch Yoyager every few months, and really
try to go in with an open mind. They just do something so stupid every time
that it scares me off for a few more months. (The last time I watched it was
that waterplanet episode. <shudder>). I watched the first two years of it
religiously, hoping it would get better before realizing my time could be
better spent.
So I'm a bit hypocritical. Ohh well, I sometimes think there's a bit of a
hypocrite in all of us, it's just usually called getting older. :-)
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:12:47 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
Message-ID: <36F5B52F.B5B8EDBF@geocities.com>
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mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
> All of which could lead to the questions: Was Avon
> removing the geeky nerd disguise to reveal the space
> pirate underneath, or assuming the guise of space
> pirate in order to accomplish a goal; and was Vila really
> an outgoing, social extrovert or actually a quiet,
> thoughtful, mastermind pretending to be a cowardly
> drunken buffoon in order to maintain his privacy.
> Perhaps we've completely misinterpreted *all* the
> characters; has there ever been a fanfic in which *all*
> the characters were actually *completely* different
> from what they purport to be? That's one I'd love
> to read!
Oh my! You do have a devious mind. This sounds like a job for ...
BIZARRO!
PS. This bounced back to me when sent directly, so will post to list:
re: nookie fans:
Susan Beth, This is the funniest thing I've seen all month. :-D
chortle, snort, hahahaha thx for posting!
pat
> >And what is all this about "rookie fans"?
> What's wrong with being a 'nookie fan', I'd like to know?
<snip> Every *single person* on it is a--
>
> Eh? What's that?
>
> Oh.
>
> Nevermind.
________________________________________________________
NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:24:40 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy
Message-ID: <36F5B7F8.B484925C@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Tramila wrote:
> >As when Dayna wheedles: "Avon! Why are you always so secretive?"
> >And Avon, finding the question irrelevant, replies with a brush off:
> >"Perhaps I'm shy."
>
> IRRELEVANT!!!! Why is that question irrelevant? Hummmm.
Irrelevant as in not about to provide any useful information. Dayna is
actually asking Avon to change his communications style. To tell them
all everything all the time. Avon sees no point in that sort of
behavior. It would just waste his valuable time, which could be better
spent thinking of ways to keep them all alive. He is not about to become
a blatherer and not about to explain to Dayna why not. If she can't
figure out why he doesn't chit chat the way Vila does - well, she can
just go chit chat with Vila!
> Oh MY!!!!!!
> Poor Dayna.
no.no.no.! Poor Soolin!
> Tramila goes hunting for 'forum' jokes to tell Pat during NasFic in August.
> (Wonder how many I can tell her because she goes stark raving mad.>
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGG!
> Bet you're sorry you encouraged me to join this list.
> Extrovert Tramila giggles and hugs to her friend, Pat.
> then bounces all over the place. <giggle>
Bet everyone else is sorry, too! <chortle> :-D
Pat runs for cover from flying cow pies
________________________________________________________
NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:00:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Credit cards
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0322160059-572Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I've been looking into what it would cost for me to be able to accept credit
card payments for zines and been rather horrified at the cost.
At a rough guess, it would cost around 1.50 pounds per transaction. I can't
really imagine people being willing to pay that kind of overhead, but if I'm
wrong and people find the convenience worth the the cost, then let me know.
I won't go for it unless there's quite a few people interested.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:16:10 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: what's so funny?
Message-ID: <199903221416_MC2-6EEA-EF84@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Sally mentioned among her favourite funny moments:
>But my special favourite is in Gambit - Servalan trying to explain her
>plotting to Jarriere. She is trying *so* hard to be patient (not her
>strong suit) and he is making such *earnest* attempts to follow - and
>failing so dismally...
Well, of course, he can't risk blowing his cover by demonstrating that he
has seen through her feeble plan through the start...
I tend to laugh at completely trivial things, like the little pause when
Avon says "by force... if necessary" in Voice from the Past.
Harriet
Jarriere's Always Discriminating Enthusiasts
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:26:48 -0000
From: "Wendy Duffield" <mgb@tesco.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] test please ignore
Message-Id: <E10PANi-0005G8-00@aisle>
Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII
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<bigger>please ignore
calle has identifies something funny happening with my
mail headers and i am trying to find out what it is
sorry to take up bandwidth
Wendy<smaller>
<nofill>
mgb@tesco.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I don't give my allegiance at all, i sell my skill "
- Soolin (Power B7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:19:29 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Worst openings
Message-ID: <Ogin+MABfp92Ew6w@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <000f01be7479$6f01b400$b2418cd4@default>, Neil Faulkner
<N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>
>'Blake,' growled Avon lustily, 'I want you to give me a shag. Right here
>and now.'
> 'Certainly,' Blake replied, scooping up the glossy-green fish-eating
>seabird huddled under the flight controls. 'Here, take it, it's costing me
>a fortune in pilchards.'
ROFLMAO
OK, so which zine editor is going to be brave enough to take these on?
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:43:10 EST
From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
Message-ID: <fc0813c1.36f6ab5e@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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I wrote:
> On the other hand, I hate perpetual moaners or people who always say things
> are so bad, everything is going to hell.
And Mistral replied:
<<Oh, how sad! And I thought we were getting on so well, too!
<bounce> >>
Why, I haven't found your posts helplessly pessimistic, but rather thought-
provoking and interesting and intelligent and engaging and fascinating and
absorbing and stirring and amusing and refreshing!
<bounce> <bounce> <bounce>
Gail
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:21:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Paul Darrow
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0322172101-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 22 Mar, Deborah Day wrote:
>
> I have just been reading an old Horizon newsletter, and saw that Paul Darrow
> states that it is not his real name. Does anybody know what he really is
> called?
Yes. <grin>
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:08:46
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Worst openings
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990322160846.1e5748f2@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I never knew Nature was such a pervert. Two turtledoves and a Shag in a
Frequent Service Tree...speaking of Travis and Kiera...
--Penny "The Hahaha Mad" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:29:29 EST
From: Carolyn772@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <41fdeef1.36f6d259@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>Even then there's the poor public opinion of fandom in general to
>consider.
I usually counterpoint with the obsessive fan in any arena. There was a photo
on the front page of the local paper of a group of (male) basketball fans,
sitting in the stands, wearing bright green afro-style wigs, with the team's
name painted on their bare chests. They made your average Klingon look pretty
tame. <g>
Carolyn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:42:00 EST
From: SupeStud00@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <f37c7766.36f6ff78@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 3/22/99 1:16:17 PM EST, ShilLance writes:
<< > >For the record, she's a wonderful character (7 of 9) whom I feel is
> >shortchanged by a great many female fans because she is very
> physically
> >attractive.
<< Just so you know, I'm a male fan, and where I do think Jeri Ryan is pretty
good looking, I just don't think she adds as much to the show as is
justified by her outfit.>>
Then you are either blind, or the male part of you is truly dead. Ryan
defines Voyager.
<< Part of it is that she just doesn't click with me
as a character, but another part of it is that the outfit is so obviously a
play to pick up viewers.>>
Of course it is, and any male who refuses to accept that that outfit would
"pick" him up is living in big time denial.
>> Sci-Fi has been saddled with the "busty female"
tack on sterotype for so long, and it has only been lately that it seems to
have started shedding that image. Voyager hasn't helped things much.>>
7 of 9 is a fully realized character who happens to have a great body. Are
you sure your problem is with the fact that she is underdeveloped?
(Characterwise that is.)
<< It also gets a bit old when the execs think they have to have a "Spock"
type
charecter for every series. Tuvok wasn't working so in comes straight faced
7 of 9 with the whole non-emotion/emotion discovery thing again. Yawn- been
there, done that. Break new ground. It's more interesting.>>
7 of 9 is new ground.
Is there some unwritten law that states that an
> intelligent
> >female must look like Janet Reno to be respected?
<< No, I know plenty of attractive, intellegent females. I respect them, and
those around them do as well. Sadly, enough I think they have to battle a
bit more for the respect, but that seems to be changing.>>
Exactly my point, they are subjected to the same ignorance to which 7 of 9 is
subjected.
I happen
> to think many
> >females feel they fall short in the looks department, and
> thus the reaction
> to
> >7 of 9. I would have liked to have seen more voloptuous femmes on
> >B7.......though we had quite a few attractive female
> characters.....none
> could
> >truly elicit that "umph" reflex that Jeri Ryan does from
> Trek fans. Who
> >knows, B7 might still be showing new eps today...........
> >
<>
But I wouldn't define any of them as buxom.
<< Jenna was
quite good looking. One of the things I love about her charecter is how
often she throws the sterotype back into your face. She uses her charm to
get close to the "baddie" in an episode and then, when the time is right,
overpowers him or defeats him in someway. It's a shame her charecter took
much more of a background role in series 2. She's also the one I wish we
could have seen again in Blake, or I always picture as being key to any PGP
scenario. >>
I agree, they shortchanged us by not bringing her back for Blake.....but
Jenna, is nowhere near in the same league as 7 of 9, or any other female
character on Voyager. B7's females were simply not presented well..........
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:58:30 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc.
Message-ID: <19981030.105832.9966.2.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:00:05 -0800 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>
>
>Ellynne G. wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:32:55 -0800 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>> >Kathryn, maybe you'd better not read this until you
>> >finish those stories you're working on ;)
>
>Check the scene between Dayna and Vila near the end. Dayna
>isexplaining to
>Vila that Cally wouldn't let the alien kill Avon not
>because it was Avon, but because he was the only one who
>understood what was going on well enough to back it into that
>particular corner -- she wouldn't have let it kill *any* of them, but
>only Avon understood that well enough to make the attempt.
>
Yes, but we're dealing with _Dayna's_ interpretation of events. First, I
still think that look was quite meaningful. Second, even Dayna admits
Vila's death would have been incidental in the alien's attempt to get rid
of Avon, who she saw as the _greatest_ threat against her. Third, she
caused considerable discomfort for Vila, Tarrant, and (possibly) Dayna
(I'm assuming Dayna walked over and knelt down on the floor for reasons
other than dramatic appearance). Fourth, this story explores Cally's
loyalties and her relationships with her crewmates. A large part of that
is the Cally/Avon relationship.
Fifth (and most importantly), this script was by Tanith Lee. While I
haven't read all that much of her stuff, I've read enough to know where
she's going when there's underlying romantic tension between an anti-hero
and warm hearted heroine (although, canon-wise, that may be cheating).
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:32:26 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Stardrive and Dawn (was re Assassin)
Message-ID: <19981030.105832.9966.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:55:09 -0500 Harriet Monkhouse
<101637.2064@compuserve.com> writes:
>>because Cally looks so utterly human, then the Auronar
>>must ultimately be of Earth origin (a conviction I know I'm
>>not alone in sharing). To suggest otherwise is to fly in the
>>face of everything we know about the evolution of species.
Well, there is convergent evolution (which makes dolphins, sharks, and
ichthyosaurs look alike), but I agree with you.
Here is comes, the Things I Liked About Dawn of the Gods
1) It showed our heroes do socialize in ways other than sitting around
throwing witty insults and one liners at each other.
2) The way everyone (but Avon [oh, all right, and Vila]) quickly turned
on Cally when strange things began to happen. It showed some of the
underlying prejudices, tensions, and loyalties of the group.
3) the background about Auron.
I know some people have mentioned problems about the myth Cally cited, a
million years being rather long and two people being a rather small gene
pool. However, there's a way time is often referred to in myths and
legends. There are myths in different cultures which all fit the same
story type where the long period of time given varies from ten days to a
thousand years, depending on the common phrase used by the culture. A
million years is an unusual choice, but it probably serves the same
purpose as the others and simply means "a very long time" or "an age" or
some such.
As for the two people, this would probably be either the Auronar
incorporating their old myths into a new situation or the altering of the
historical events to fit mythic patterns.
4) A villian besides Servalan and the Federation! (Even if he does keep
his "blow up planet" switch in the middle of a crowded room).
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:44:58 -0400
From: Cam MacLeod <cmacleod@ilap.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Quotes IRL
Message-ID: <36F505E8.E75D4946@ilap.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've used Servalan's quote to great effect:
"When you know an enemy's strengths, and can use them against them, they
become weaknesses."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:18:04 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans(Voyager, 7 of 9)
Message-ID: <19981030.111806.9966.3.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:42:00 EST SupeStud00@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 3/22/99 1:16:17 PM EST, ShilLance writes:
>
><< > >For the record, she's a wonderful character (7 of 9) whom I feel
>is
> > >shortchanged by a great many female fans because she is very
> > physically
> > >attractive.
>
><< Just so you know, I'm a male fan, and where I do think Jeri Ryan
>is pretty
> good looking, I just don't think she adds as much to the show as is
> justified by her outfit.>>
>
>Then you are either blind, or the male part of you is truly dead.
>Ryan
>defines Voyager.
>
And this is a good thing? Actually, I like 7 of 9, but Voyager as a whole
rarely works for me.
><< It also gets a bit old when the execs think they have to have a
>"Spock"
>type
> charecter for every series.
Yes and no. Star Trek seems to work best with an odd man out character,
a character who is the alien to the Star Trek society, but they work in
different ways. Spock was Spock. Data was Pinnochio. Odo (pardon the
pun) was the changeling. 7 of 9 is the wolf-child, the feral child raised
by beasts and never entirely sure she wants to give up being the
predator. Voyager _tried_ to start with an overload of outsiders (Tom
[rejected by Federation and Maquis], Belonna, the Maquis, Harry [the
greenie], the Doctor, Kes, etc) and then put them in an environment where
their differences became inconsequential compared to the need to survive
and work together. Blah.
7 of 9, on the other hand, always feels perfectly free to question human
society and her supposed need for it. She's also the only character to
consistently question the supposed all-knowing wisdom of Janeway.
>
> > > I would have liked to have seen more voloptuous femmes
>on
> > >B7
>But I wouldn't define any of them as buxom.
>
>but
>Jenna, is nowhere near in the same league as 7 of 9, or any other
>female
>character on Voyager. B7's females were simply not presented
>well..........
>
Yes, but buxom wasn't in during the 70's. As for female characters on
Voyager other than 7 of 9, don't get me started. Some of them are OK,
but Janeway drives me nuts. Even Kirk was wrong sometimes (and didn't
Spock and McCoy let him know it). Janeway isn't. Ever. And her
character is always being sacrificed for whatever is the politically
correct moral for the story of the week
Oh, well, enough ranting for today.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 99 03:39:00 GMT
From: s.thompson8@genie.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Worst openings
Message-Id: <199903230405.EAA27629@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ellyne, this is wonderful! LOL! It's not just an opening, it's a whole
little story in itself. I bet a zine editor would like to have it.
Sarah T.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:29:24 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Worst openings
Message-ID: <19990323042926.18454.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>Ellyne, this is wonderful! LOL! It's not just an opening, it's a
whole
> little story in itself. I bet a zine editor would like to have it.
>Sarah T.
<smile> I hope so. I don't think it counts as a "worst" opening.
Regards
Joanne
PS: <enormous grin> Neil, nice one. Trust you to remember that piece of
idiom also refers to wildlife!
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:55:50 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Re [B7L]: Pressure Point
Message-ID: <000801be74fe$ac9df1e0$2217ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Judith wrote:
>PS. I assume +AF8- is meant to be italics? The normal e-mail convention
is to
>use * to indicate italics as this avoids the problem.
It's actually the underline character, which I adopted for emphasis since my
asterisks were getting garbled. Seems my question marks are as well. Is
there a way to fix this in Outlook Express <question mark>
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:58:02 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
Message-ID: <000901be74fe$ad675c60$2217ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mistral wrote:
><squeal of delight>
>
>Oooooohh! See, Neil, you =can= play the game when you try!
><grin> <giggle> <snicker>
Irony's lost on some people, isn't it.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:37:48 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon & intimacy (was Tarrant / Assassin)
Message-ID: <36F744CB.DCEAC92@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Mistral wrote:
> ><squeal of delight>
> >
> >Oooooohh! See, Neil, you =can= play the game when you try!
> ><grin> <giggle> <snicker>
>
> Irony's lost on some people, isn't it.
Apparently.Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:49:19 +1000
From: Taina Nieminen <tenzil@bigpond.com>
To: "'B7'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: Re [B7L]: Pressure Point
Message-ID: <01BE7555.7AE4D680@TENZIL>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<<It's actually the underline character, which I adopted for emphasis since my
asterisks were getting garbled. Seems my question marks are as well. Is
there a way to fix this in Outlook Express <question mark>
Neil>>
Yes.
Taina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:22:21 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: what's so funny?
Message-ID: <19990323082221.16867.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
re Servalan and Jarriere, Harriet explained that gorgeous baffled look
as:
<Well, of course, he can't risk blowing his cover by demonstrating that
he has seen through her feeble plan through the start...>
Oh I *see* (which is more than he ever does)...so he's really both
brilliantly Machiavellian and a wonderful actor to boot (I mean, he does
kerflummoxed so well). Clearly Blake should have recruited him.
And I still wish someone had put Avon and Jarriere together, if only for
a short time. Pateince is even less *his* strong point than it is
Servalan's.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:38:48 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Rookie fans
Message-ID: <4DB0E0F127E@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Steve wrote in response to Vick's letter on Rookie Fans.
> This hits me as very elitist. I'd be more worried about the state of
> fandom if there wasn't a new stock of "highly enthusiastic even
> obsessive young fans" out there. They are the next generation that are
> going to keep fandom alive. Sure, they'll make mistakes, upset the odd
> actor, create a bad impression. They're young, that's what young people
> do and that's what we all did once if we are honest enought to admit it.
I really, really would like to be able to agree whole heartedly with
you. How old do you think I am?
> Good. I want to see more new blood having a bash at writing fanzines and
> running conventions and websites. Take Xena fandom, for example. The
> first symposium last year was run by a group of enthusiastic fans who
> had never done it before and it just oozed fun and let's have a go.
> Other new Xena fans are running the By The Gods nights at Pages, and
> they are excellent evenings and a welcome addition to fandom. As to
> actors, they are probably tired about answering the same questions, but
> they know it goes with the job and they know the person asking hasn't
> heard the answer before, which means this is a new fan and there's
> nothing an actor likes more than a new fan.
I only hope that this is true. I could well be running my first
convention (B7, Red Dwarf, Doctor Who) in september, and I hardly
feel qualified to take it on, even though I've had offers of help,
and I've got a lovely venue. Xena though, is not in this case a good
example as it's a new fandom. The fans can't be rookies, as it hasn't
been done before and done better.
Vick
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:55:20 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <4DB546A5073@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Judith wrote in response to Rookie fans
> You sound as though you have specific examples in mind. At the same time, I
> can't think of anything in B7 that fits your pattern, so are you commenting
> mainly with regard to a different fandom? Actually, I can think of a couple of
> conventions that folded, but I know of no badly run B7 clubs or fanzines.
There perhaps isn't a specific example, though I come from a mixed
fandom of Blake's 7 and Doctor Who. 'Who fandom is full
of politics, which unfortuanatly gets in the way of having fun and
enjoying the series itself. I've only been an active fan for about a
year or so (B7) I did run a multi sci-fi club for a couple of years
before that which was unimaginably awful. The old club was run under
a Star Trek fandom banner (though none of us were Trekkies) and we
had to play be their rules.
> > Even then there's the poor public opinion of fandom in general to consider.
> > This begs the question; do fans really have any moral obligations at all? And
> > should they?
>
> We're doomed by some parts of public opinion no matter what we do. Frankly,
> I've mostly given up bothering about it. I remember one con organiser who used
> to be really worried if there were many fans at the con in fancy dress because
> he knew the press would focus on them, no matter how many other fans attended in
> normal clothes. Does this mean we should never dress up? Stuff that for a load
> of old cobblers! I'm going to enjoy myself and have fun with my friends.
Worse than that, I've found that the press target any attendees with
mental or other disablities. This is not to say that I have anything
against disabled people having fun at a convention, heaven forbid!
But it doesn't do anything for the public image of the fans if this
is all the press focus on. They're giving out the wrong message, and
anything I could say against their approach could only make me appear
a spoil sport for these poor people.
When a club does get trouble, no-one has sympathy for what they
percieve as being a bunch of weirdoes anyway. Talking of dressing up,
I'm just as likely to do that on a day to day basis.
> So, that's my position for what it's worth. Treat new fans just the same as old
> ones, and hope that fans old and new will treat the cast as human beings with a
> right to personal space and privacy.
Thanks for the advice.
Vick
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:59:28 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <4DB66023285@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Tiger wrote:
> So what if other people think I'm weird for liking the things
> I like. They've thought that since I was five years old and the smartest kid
> in the class.
That sounds like me actually. My relatives can never get their heads
round some of my more bizarre interests and 'room decorations'.
Yes, and I was the smartest kid in the class too.
Vick
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:00:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: "U.M. Mccormack" <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] worst openings
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.990323095826.17088B-100000@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
'Blake' Cally cried, as the teleport brought the rebel into focus. 'You
were left behind while the teleport rescued me to face the slavering
death-monster of doom - how did you cope?'
Blake paused. Then replied, 'First, I was afraid. I was petrified...'
Una - shameleesly theiving from the Mary Whitehouse Experience
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:02:43 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <4DB73C53B67@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Vick wrote:
> > The question I raise is based on the assumption that there are a lot
> > of highly enthusiastic even obsessive young fans, late teens, early
> > twenties out there, who thought they know their subject, know
> > nothing of the tacit agreements known by the long term fans.
>
> Do you have any reason whatsoever to believe such fans exist? If so,
> tell us about it. As it is now, you mainly come across as insulting to
> young fans.
This isn't the insult it appears to be. I *am* a young fan, and the
biggest rookie out. That's why I'm on such a guilt trip.
If you take this post from whenst it comes, suddenly everything falls
into place.
Vick
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 02:08:17 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon & Cally
Message-ID: <36F76810.9ED244C6@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nina wrote:
> Mistral wrote:
>
> > I do think there's love between them, just not romantic love.
>
> At that point in time, I'd have to agree. But my romantic streak wants to
> believe that if Cally hadn't died it might have changed. I think Avon *was*
> coming to trust Cally more and more with time and shared experiences;
> eventually, I think he might have seen that he *could* trust and love her as
> he had Anna, with nearly no risk of betrayal.
Nearly no risk? *Nearly* no risk?
"Almost is never good enough."--Avon <Mistral winks>
It seems as if many fen interpret the events in 'Rumors' to
be a matter of dealing with old business in preparation to
Avon moving on in his emotional life, hence clearing the
way for a relationship with Cally. I see it rather the other
way around -- in 'Rumors' we see the most devastating
personal betrayal of Avon's life; I think he's *less* likely
instead of more likely to be ready to try again with anybody
else at this point, *particularly* Cally, since she is a
deep-feeling crusader-type like Blake, and a telepath to
boot; ergo she is going to want him to 'be his best self',
as she would see it, while he would view it as her trying
to change him; and I think he would resent that. This is
a fairly typical male-female conflict anyway, and it would
be aggravated by the fact that, cut off from her people,
she is particularly lonely and wants intimacy, while he
would be more likely after 'Rumors' to want some space.
IMHO, Cally would be better off with any of the other
men, particularly either Blake, who shares her views, or
especially Vila, who is a very warm, feely, friendly type;
and Avon would be better off with a more independent,
less emotionally invasive woman like Soolin or Jenna;
someone who would be likely to understand or even share
his need for distance. It's been my personal experience
that two people who ordinarily both need a lot of space
can become quite close over time, because eventually
they each realize that the other is not going to overstep
personal boundaries; so the boundaries get pulled back
and pulled back, until eventually there are no boundaries
at all; but to get to that place, you have to start with the
willingness *not* to be close -- that's not a place I see
Cally being able to start a relationship with Avon.
BTW, Nina, don't think I have no romantic streak just
because I don't see Avon/Cally; remember I'm the one
who goes all soft watching 'Headhunter' ;-)
Grins,
Mistral
--
"There's always an argument."--Avon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:11:41 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
Message-ID: <4DB9A601623@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Cynthia wrote:
> Congratulations! You've eliminated one rookie fan.
I've eliminated two, if I can count myself.
Yes, you did read that correctly.
Vick.
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #111
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