From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #13 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume99/13 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 13 Today's Topics: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #307 Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #306 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:19:45 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" <d.stanistraken@dundee.ac.uk> To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #307 Message-Id: <E0zzdXY-00021m-01@pp.dundee.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:59:56 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #307 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 307 > > Today's Topics: > [B7L] Servalan tape > [B7L] Cybercon Update: Writers Wanted! > [B7L] Horizon Newsflash - "Over The Moon" > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character > [B7L] Avon the genius? > Re: [B7L] Avon the genius? > [B7L] Travis has three faces > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: [B7L] Sula, Servalan, Augustus and cornflakes > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:45:33 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> > To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> > Subject: [B7L] Servalan tape > Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1212094533-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > John Ainsworth's new address is 5C Peabody Estate, Lillie Road, Fulham, London, > SW6 1UL, though he says mail sent to the old address will still reach him. > > He says he has been pretty slow at mailing things out due to work, but hopes > things will improve a lot from January onwards as he's simplifying his workload. > > He also says that Australians wanting a copy of the Servalan tape can mail him a > sachet of Bank tobbaco in trade (yes, he is serious). > > He doesn't agent the tapes through anyone else. > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:26:24 +0000 > From: JMR <jager@clara.net> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Cybercon Update: Writers Wanted! > Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981212212624.008a6ba0@mail.clara.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Anyone possibly interested in this? > > Judith > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Alison Hopkins <fn62@dial.pipex.com> > >Newsgroups: uk.media.tv.sf.startrek > >Date: 11 December 1998 22:40 > >Subject: Cybercon update; writers wanted! > > > > > >>A bit more on CyberCon, which will have an open web site on Tuesday, ONLY! > >> > >>Ali > >> > >> > >><<<<<On Tuesday the 15th of December 1998, the Star Trek: Insurrection > >>Cyber Con '98 goes live on the internet, across the globe. The highlight > >>of the Cyber Con will be the chance to enter a competition to write a > >>Star Trek script with the assistance of several renowned authors from > >>the science fiction and fantasy world. They are: > >> > >>Diane Duane, a Campbell Award nominee with 19 acclaimed science fiction > >>and fantasy novels to her credit, including the 'Door Into....' series, > >>the 'Wizard' series, several Spiderman novels and an X-Men novel. Diane > >>has written several Star Trek novels, including 'Spock's World', which > >>topped the New York Bestseller List. She also co-wrote a Star Trek: The > >>Next Generation script 'Where No One Has Gone Before'. > >> > >>Peter Morwood is a science fiction and fantasy novelist with more than a > >>dozen novels to his credit, including the popular 'Alban' series which > >>began with 'The Horse Lord', its prequel series, 'The Clan Wars', > >>a series of fantasy novels set in old Russia, and a Star Trek novel > >>'Rules of Engagement'. He has also co-authored several other Star Trek > >>novels with his wife, Diane Duane. > >> > >>Warren James is a rocket scientist who has worked on the Freedom Space > >>Station, and is currently designing methods for increasing payloads on > >>space ships. His first professional publication was the > >>short story 'Slowboat Nightmare' which has just been published in Larry > >>Niven's 'Man-Kzin Wars VIII'. > >> > >>The script has five major elements, which will be taken from competition > >>entries. The five elements are: > >> > >>1) Create a location in space / time for the new episode > >>2) Create a new enemy / alien species > >>3) Create the technology structure for the species, inc. transportation > >>/ weapons > >>4) Create a new crew member for the Enterprise > >>5) How will they interact with each other (i.e. alien species vs. > >>Enterprise etc.) > >> > >>A storyboard artist will also be at the Cyber Con, drawing up the > >>concepts involved in the script. > >> > >>The authors will select winning entries to be used, one from each > >>element. All 5 winners will receive exclusive Star Trek: Insurrection > >>prizes. One overall winner will be selected randomly from the five > >>element winners to become the proud owner of the storyboards, > >>autographed by all present. > >> > >>There will also be live chat and streaming video throughout the day from > >>the Cyber Con, with the chance to chat with the authors. Parts of the > >>script and storyboards will be uploaded to the Cyber Con web site > >>regularly, and live chat and pictures will be coming from the premiere > >>party in the evening. > >> > >>ENGAGE TO CYBER CON > >> > >>WWW.STARFLEET.CO.UK>>>>> > > > > > J.M. Rolls > jager@clara.net > ---------------- > Steedophilia: The John Steed Website > <http://home.clara.net/jager/> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:24:01 +0000 > From: JMR <jager@clara.net> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Horizon Newsflash - "Over The Moon" > Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981212212401.0082d970@mail.clara.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Saturday 12th December 1998 > > News from HORIZON about the broadcast schedule for BBC Choice (Digital) of > OVER THE MOON is that it is currently set for 1st January 1999 (New Year's > Day) at 3pm. The Blake's 7 episode & interviews are currently scheduled > for the third hour, so that takes it to approximately 6pm. These times are > subject to change so we'll keep you posted. > > See the Horizon Club website at > <http://www.horizon.org.uk> > > > > > J.M. Rolls > jager@clara.net > ---------------- > Steedophilia: The John Steed Website > <http://home.clara.net/jager/> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:59 -0800 > From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <36714977.31EA@geocities.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Alison Page wrote: > > If you take the 'relativist' position, that good and bad are relative to a > > society's mores, then you have nowhere to stand 'outside' your own society > > to criticise it. For example - why did the witch burning stop? because > > something in the people of those ages revolted against it. They changed the > > mores, by reference to something (such as reason and compassion) which was > > outside of conventional morality. In other words absolute rather than > > relative. > > Societal changes are generally caused by economic, rather than > moralistic changes. > > The witch hunts in Europe during the 16th (?) century were not > religious, but economic. The accusser got to keep all the worldly wealth > of the woman killed. Some men were known to have accused (and profited > from) the deaths and subsequent "estate inheritances" of up to 200 > women. What a get-rich scam! I don't know why the slaughter stopped, but > I would guess that either the economy improved so that there were other > (easier?) ways to make money. I read that over one million women were > murdered as witches during this purge, so perhaps they ran short of the > commodity being "traded" i.e. women. The witch market collapsed. > > The abolition of slavery in the U.S. was not due so much to the Yankees > abohorance of slavery as to the need for unskilled factory workers in > the Northern states. The "underground railroad" delivered freed slaves > to factory jobs in northern cities. The invention of the cotton gin > sealed the fate of slavery by replacing labor-intensive cotton picking > (picking the seeds out of the balls) by hand with a machine. > > The more recent "women's liberation" movement in the U.S. was the result > of economic forces - as the post-war boom economy softened, women's > wages were needed to maintain the standard of livng that a husband's > wage alone provided in the go-go 50s. And, of course, invention of "the > pill" helped keep them in the workforce. > > Space shows - like Blakes 7 and Trek - often focus on moralistic reasons > for action and downfall because it has more dramatic interest than down > 'n dirty economics. But in fiction, as in life, the age-old adage should > apply: "Follow the Money." > Pat P > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:20:39 -0800 > From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <36714657.14F@geocities.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Una McCormack wrote: > > I think it's (probably) meaningless to talk about vegetarianism in a 12th > > century context ... > It's my understanding that vegetarianism was the norm among people for > centuries because they were too poor to have meat. Animals eat great > amounts of food that could be consumed by poor peasants directly. In > poor countries like China (rice) India (lentils) Africa (cassava) people > still eat a largely vegetarian diet. And *not* for moral reasons. > > > Vegetarianism is a moral stance taken these days in > > a situation of relative wealth ... > Just so. Only when people can afford to eat meat can they choose not to. > > Future societies who are purported to eat vat grown protein (Bujold's > Vorkosigan series) are often portrayed as doing so for reasons of > economy of production on harsh worlds where it would be impossible to > grow animals - again, due to lack of arable land in proportion to human > populations. > > Blakes 7 is curious in that we almost never see anyone eating and know > little about what they eat. Altho we well know what they drink! :-) > Pat P > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:13:59 -0800 > From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <367144C7.2066@geocities.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > LordRab@aol.com wrote: > > Which happily reminds me of another favorite Avon retort (to Vila): > > "It's not your right to an opinion that I object to, it's the fact that you > > think we are all entitled to your opinion that is irritating" > > hahaha. Reminds me of a favorite: "Nobody appreciates the value of good > advice so much as the one who gives it." > This particularly applies to Blake having to endure Avon's supercillious > advice. > Pat P > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:54:36 PST > From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Avon the genius? > Message-ID: <19981213045438.18003.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by samantha.lysator.liu.se id TAA24228 > > Can a rather new and shy list member join in here? > Carol Mc wrote : <I consider the creative part to be the main=20 > determination of genius.>=20 > I can accept this definition in the artistic/literary field, maybe even=20 > in pure science (with some reservations - pure mathematics, anyone?) but=20 > I think there are many fields where it=92s too narrow and room has to be=20 > allowed for other definitions, like interpretive or analytical. > I also got out my dictionaries (I=92m not trying to play duelling=20 > dictionaries, truly - but I do love reading them!) and got a variety of=20 > definitions, of which my preferred (Oxford ) is =91exceptionally great=20 > intellectual *or* creative ability'; any great natural ability.=92 > Ensor, Muller, Plaxton etc had genius within their own specialised=20 > fields - a narrow creative genius. Avon=92s brilliance did not have the=20 > same depth, but a greater range, involving an amazing breadth of=20 > knowledge and comprehensive skill (let=92s face it, no matter what=20 > unheard-of technology the Federation, Blake=92s plans, Providence and the= > =20 > scriptwriters could throw at him, he usually knew it inside out in an=20 > astoundingly short time.) So I would accept that Avon had, not creative,=20 > but analytical genius. > And anyway, most of his creative energies went first into crime, then=20 > into survival, sharpening his tongue, and his favourite hobby of=20 > annoying the hell out of everyone, especially Blake. At which no one can=20 > deny he *was* a genius. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:29:31 +1100 > From: "Christine Lacey" <eshva@magna.com.au> > To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> > Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon the genius? > Message-Id: <199812131228.XAA01476@s3000-01.magna.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi all > > This is rather a massive post - which is quite appropriate since it's about > Avon's genius :) I can't resist - this is one topic guaranteed to make me > delurk. Although there's probably no need, since Deborah and Sally <wave> > have already written excellent defences of Avon's genius. > > Anyway, Deborah wrote > > > As for > > > creativeness, I still hold that the sensor deflector is indeed an > example > > of creativeness. > > To which Carol replied > > This doesn't work for me. First because it's more adapting a known idea > to a > > new situation (not creative enough). And second because other minds were > > developing the same technology at the same time. For me, a genius has to > > conceive of something that is uniquely innovative: Orac, the stardrive, > the > > Muller android. I think Avon would be the first to admit that he wasn't > in > > that category. > > Well, I agree that the detector shield wasn't as creative as something like > Orac, but it was a genuinely new innovation, even if the Federation did > come up with their own version soon after. Surely it's not uncommon for > two or more people to come up with much the same idea at around the same > time, independently? (Charles Darwin and Alfred Russell spring to mind). I > don't think this should devalue their innovation. > > In a way, the detector shield demonstrates Avon's particular kind of > creativity - namely that it is extremely practical - being invisible to > detectors has got to be handy when you're a fugitive And unlike Muller or > Ensor, Avon seems to have a good grasp of exactly how his invention can be > used and by whom. Muller managed to get killed by his creation (perhaps > because he didn't realise its potential). And I got the impression that > Ensor didn't really utilise Orac to its full capacity. He struck me as the > kind of guy who would invent the universe's spiffiest computer and then use > it to feed his goldfish :) Anyway, I agree that Avon wasn't a genius in > the same way as Muller or Ensor, but I don't think the definition of genius > needs to be quite so narrow. > > Deborah: > > > I also hold that the main reason we don't see Avon designing > original > > > things is that he lacks the time and facilities. > > Carol: > > Avon wasn't a spring chicken when he boarded Liberator. He had plenty of > time > > to establish creative credentials before then. The Federation didn't > appear > > to be shy about setting up their creative geniuses with proper facilities > > (Plaxton, for one example). > > I agree with Deborah. I don't think that Avon did have plenty of > opportunity earlier to demonstrate his creativity. I rather like the > fanfic notion that Avon got assigned to the Aquitar project, (had no choice > in it), and had a lot of his time wasted on something that ultimately > failed. And I suspect the Federation might not have supplied Avon with > proper facilities etc because a) they thought he was political and b) even > if he wasn't actually involved with rebels, he had enough pragmatic > cleverness to be dangerous, unlike the ivory tower types who would putter > along designing stardrives for anyone who paid the bills. > > And later, on Liberator and Scorpio, he didn't get all that much chance to > do his own thing. It seemed to be always "Avon, fix this", "Avon, research > that", "Avon, come down to this planet to blow something up." And then he > got stuck with the job of leader and freedom fighter, which would also have > cut into his research time. > > Before I get off the topic of creativity - what about the sopron in > "Harvest of Kairos"? (ridiculous spider, dopey Servalan and Jarvik stuff, > lovely Avon). I thought Avon displayed good solid scientific curiosity in > this ep - he finds something interesting and prods at it til he works it > out. And in very Avon fashion, turns the knowledge into a useful invention > that saves their bacon. A very practical sort of genius in my view. > > On definitions, I agree with Sally, that it's silly to wave our > dictionaries at each other (especially since mine is a dog-eared Oxford > paperback), but mine doesn't actually mention creativity - it just says > "exceptionally great mental ability, or any great natural ability". This > seems to accord with my lay usage of the term - if someone has a > particularly outstanding ability, I might call them eg. a musical genius, > specifying what the ability was. If I just used the term 'genius', I'd > probably mean a really outstandingly brainy person. > > Sally wrote > <<Ensor, Muller, Plaxton etc had genius within their own specialised > fields - a narrow creative genius. Avon's brilliance did not have the > same depth, but a greater range, involving an amazing breadth of > knowledge and comprehensive skill (let's face it, no matter what > unheard-of technology the Federation, Blake's plans, Providence and the > scriptwriters could throw at him, he usually knew it inside out in an > astoundingly short time.) So I would accept that Avon had, not creative, > but analytical genius.>> > > I totally agree - the really impressive thing about Avon's intelligence is > how broad and adaptable it is. > He can mess with Liberator's computers (Breakdown), do the complicated > repairs (Redemption), fly the ship (Time Squad, Traitor), open locks > (Bounty & Aftermath), deactivate bombs (Countdown), decode codes > (Countdown), reprogram robots (Project Avalon), get an antiquated > technology working again (Deliverance), alter the function of the teleport > (Trial) etc. etc > And he wasn't just intelligent about gadgets - he also seemed to have quite > a good grasp of 'political' type things. My favourite example is in > 'Shadow' - he is suspicious of the ease with which they found the source of > shadow, when supposedly the Federation couldn't. I think he probably > worked out that the Federation were allied with the Terra Nostra - why else > search the guard? To me this shows an impressive degree of analytical > ability, unconnected with computers etc. > > Carol: > > Per definition two, many of them qualify. Avon is gifted with computers. > > Blake with leadership. Vila with locks. Jenna and Tarrant at piloting. > Etc. > > I think the difference with Avon is essentially his ability to learn new > things and to adapt his knowledge to gadgetry of all kinds (as well as an > impressive degree of practical creativity). I mean Tarrant knows > spacecraft and Vila knows locks, but Avon seems to have a working knowledge > of everything. > > Carol also wrote > > Per definition one genius, the crew member I think comes closest is > Dayna, > > with her ability to develop innovative weaponry. It would depend on how > > innovative her inventions really were. > > It's interesting that Dayna should be the nearest to a genius if the > creativity definition is used. When I think of Dayna and Soolin, for > instance, I would tend to say Soolin was the more intelligent of the two > (based mainly on 'Assasin'). So perhaps 'genius' in the creativity sense > isn't connected to 'intelligence' as such. Or, more likely, I suspect that > I tend to equate cynicism with intelligence (which may not be terribly > valid). Which would also contribute to my conviction that Avon is highly > intelligent, since he such a super-cynic. > > Christine (unashamed Avon fan) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:30:00 +1030 > From: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" <DUNML001@students.unisa.edu.au> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Travis has three faces > Message-ID: <AE6AF4DBBDA8D111B1D200AA00DD6129015E92AA@EXSTUDENT4.Magill.UniSA.Edu.Au> > Content-Type: text/plain > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > 1980 Blake's 7 annual, published by IPC. > Why is Travis a guy with a goatee and no obvious cybernetic attachments? > > Allow me to suggest a couple of explanations- > This was printed for Christmas 1979, and so both seasons with Travis had > screened. > Having been played by both Stephen Greif and Brian Croucher, this already makes > such a depiction somewhat shaky. Add to this Travis having been killed off at > Star One (or at least needing quite an escape story written for him). > > Perhaps the cybernetics were deemed too horrific to draw in a children's > publication. > Or they don't draw well. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:50:35 EST > From: AChevron@aol.com > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <200ec82a.3673e24b@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 12/12/98 5:54:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, > pussnboots@geocities.com writes: > > << I don't know why the slaughter stopped, but > I would guess that either the economy improved so that there were other > (easier?) ways to make money. I read that over one million women were > murdered as witches during this purge, so perhaps they ran short of the > commodity being "traded" i.e. women. The witch market collapsed. >> > > > I think the reason the slaughter collapsed was that the insanity had gotten > out of control. In economic terms, it became too risky to indulge in as the > accusations began to spread to the point where the profiters became victims of > their own scam. > I also don't think that you can look at any issue in purely economic terms. > Human life is too complicated for that. World War 2 is an example. to argue > that it was fought for purely economic reasons just doesn't work. Or the Civil > War, for that matter. To say that thousands of Southerners died just so a > relatively small percent of Southerners could maintain slaves is absurd. Many > men fought for many reasons, North and South. > But as your post pointed out, the economic causes of conflict and actions > is a major reason people do immoral things, and shouldn't be overlooked when > evaluating another's actions. D. Rose > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 09:34:14 -0800 > From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Sula, Servalan, Augustus and cornflakes > Message-ID: <3673FA96.1010@geocities.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Rob Clother wrote: > > After all, > > it's Blake the troopers are after at the very end: bagging Avon and his > > crew was like getting a freebie out of a cornflakes packet. > > Blurb on Krunchies Kornpops package: > > Hey Kids! Get your *free* Scorpio spaceship. Inside every box of > Krunchies Kornpops! Collect several, because accidents do happen: > Asteroids! Alien invasions! Ultraworlds! Clouds of caustic glop! Space > Rats! Blockades! > > Now collect the full set of action figures. Just send one Krunchies > boxtop plus 25 cents for each figure (approximate size: 2" tall). > Collect the whole set! Mad Avon, Toothy Tarrant, Sexy Soolin, Daring > Dayna and Controlled substance abusing Vila. > > New! build your own Orac. Easy to assemble model kit: just $4.95 plus 7 > Krunchies boxtops. Get one today. Break the banking system tomorrow. > > Budding commercial copywriter, Pat P > > -------------------------------- > End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #307 > ************************************** > Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:19:37 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" <d.stanistraken@dundee.ac.uk> To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #306 Message-Id: <E0zzdXY-00021m-00@pp.dundee.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:16:23 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #306 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 306 > > Today's Topics: > [B7L] Patience > Re: [B7L] Blake's Legend > [B7L] The Name Game -- A New Drabble > Re: [B7L] The Name Game -- A New Drabble > Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > [B7L] Re: Orac and Marvin > [B7L] Re: spod > Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > [B7L] unsbuscribe > Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > [B7L] Avon the genius? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:58:55 PST > From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Patience > Message-ID: <19981211045856.4587.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Kathryn said: >Ah well, at least most of us have seen all the episodes > >of Blake's 7 - haven't we? > > <woebegone expression> Apart from me. Reading the transcripts isn't > quite good enough for getting the feel of the episode's atmosphere > (although I'm very, very, very glad all of those people took the time to > make them available - I'd have no idea what happened in several stories > without them). > > Maybe I *should* acquire that spare copy of "Shadow/Weapon" if it is > still available - as a Christmas present for myself, naturally <grin>. > But then again, I have to give back the zines Pat Fenech lent me at some > point, and I'm seriously considering ordering my very own copy of "The > Machiavelli Factor" (that's a wonderful cover on that story - I begin to > see what it is that Judith sees in Gareth Thomas whenever I look at that > one! <grin> The story itself is really good, too.) > > Judith said: >I fantasise happily about the others being wonderfully > >nice to me. Most of us would be delighted if Avon, Vila or Blake fell > >in love with us. Gan however, would be nice to me even if I wasn't > >the object of his dreams, wheras Avon <sob>would probably be >horribly > sarcastic. Gan had patience, and that wasn't a common >quality on board > Liberator. > > How true. Unfortunately, Avon seems to have had some sort of standing > order when it came to supplies of Blake's patience, and Cally, I > suspect, was being bled of hers by requests for a little refreshment on > Vila's part. Tarrant and Dayna saved their supplies of patience for > situations where it was most needed. Same with Jenna and Soolin. Orac > had none whatsoever. For what it's worth, I think Gan could have > supplied the lot of them with patience and still have some left over. > > This is not to say that that he was, by any means, a saint. We know that > isn't true. But limiter or no limiter, he tended to be very > even-tempered, something I don't think can be claimed for the others > (except possibly Cally, and she didn't start out that way). That makes > his behaviour in "Breakdown" all the more startling. > > Time to go home for the weekend, I think. > > Regards > Joanne > > If you are planning to go to the Spring Ball, you had better plant now > the carriage seeds. Except, of course, if among your associates you have > an aunt, a friend or a fairy godmother...In that case, the pumpkin seeds > will suffice. > --Frederic Clement, The Merchant of Marvels and The Peddler of Dreams. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:48:20 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> > To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> > Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Legend > Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1210174820-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Thu 10 Dec, Achtung74@aol.com wrote: > > forgive me if this is a stupid question or is common knowledge but I have been > > away for some time and the last time I was on this group there was talk of a > > fan video called Blake's Legend which might even feature a cameo from an old > > cast member..could someone fill me in on any new news regarding this? > > I've often wondered about that myself. I think it was Peter Tudenham who did > the cameo, appearing as someone in the military. Last I heard it was being > edited, but that was quite a long time ago. > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:54:37 -0600 > From: kmwilcox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (K. Michael Wilcox) > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] The Name Game -- A New Drabble > Message-Id: <199812111448.PAA28013@samantha.lysator.liu.se> > > The Name Game > > > Krantor tried to change his scowl into a smile before entering the office, > but failed. > "They're here," he announced. Toise did not answer. "Sir." > Toise nodded. "Then show them in." > Krantor waved a hand, and an elderly couple was escorted in. "Can we have > the body?" the man said. "We're eager to leave." > "Of course," Toise answered. "But first, how exactly is your family's > name pronounced?" > "Khevedikh." > They were escorted out, and Toise broke into giggles. "Both hard but > aspirated! I don't think anyone chose that in the pool, so the house keeps > the whole six million!" > "Fantastic," Krantor hissed. > > > > K. M. Wilcox > A drabble is a work of 100 words (not counting title). This and more B7 > drabbles can be found at http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~kmwilcox/Blake > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:47:54 EST > From: Tigerm1019@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] The Name Game -- A New Drabble > Message-ID: <3ef10fab.36715aca@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-12-11 09:55:04 EST, you write: > > << "Of course," Toise answered. "But first, how exactly is your family's > name pronounced?" > "Khevedikh." > They were escorted out, and Toise broke into giggles. "Both hard but > aspirated! I don't think anyone chose that in the pool, so the house keeps > the whole six million!" > "Fantastic," Krantor hissed. >> > > This is great. I've really enjoyed your drabbles, K.M. More, please. > > Tiger M > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:20:41 EST > From: Tigerm1019@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > Message-ID: <d135beec.36716279@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-12-10 07:29:07 EST, D. Rose wrote: > > << Avon doesn't show the innovative genius that Ensor and Muller do > because > he hasn't the time to sit down and develop it. He manages to come up with an > anti-detection screen, is constantly puttering around and modifying > Liberator, > and adapts the technologies like the stardrive to use. I think he more than > earns the title genius, even if we don't see some "masterwork" of his. > Which isn't to say he can't foul things up royally. He is human, after > all, > and part of the fun of his character is how agravatingly human his flaws > are. > >> > > I think Avon was very smart and very good with computers, but I still wouldn't > describe him as a genius. In fact, I don't consider any of the crew to be > geniuses. They were all smart people and excellent in their fields of > expertise (even Vila and Gan) but they weren't geniuses. As for the > stardrive, Dr. Plaxton actually installed it and I got the impression that > Tarrant was the one who did most of the actual repair and maintenance on it > and the rest of Scorpio, with assistance from Avon and Vila. > > Tarrant went through pilot training at the Federation Space Academy (a five > year program - "Moloch"), and I am going to make some extrapolations from > this. I think Tarrant was an engineer with a specialty in spaceship drives > and systems. Of all the crew, he seemed to be the one with the most knowledge > of how spaceships worked and why. Avon seemed mostly to be adapting existing > technology for his own needs, which may not be easy, but is still a different > matter from coming up with something new. > > As for screwing up royally, they all did that on a regular basis, except maybe > for Gan. He's the one with the patience and common sense. > > Tiger M > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:24:37 +0100 > From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: Orac and Marvin > Message-ID: <36715553.752519B@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Excellent Rob. And so in character. Actually I think Marvin would get on > well Vila. > -- > cheers > Steve Rogerson > > Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > "Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell" > Star Wars > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:23:33 +0100 > From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: spod > Message-ID: <36715513.DE82DD82@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Julie said: "I am thinking of fighting back by ordering the Avon > calendar and > putting it on the wall above my desk." > > What Avon calendar? > -- > cheers > Steve Rogerson > > Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > "Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell" > Star Wars > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:44:08 EST > From: AChevron@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > Message-ID: <ddd1bebc.36717608@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-12-11 13:34:27 EST, you write: > > << Avon seemed mostly to be adapting existing > technology for his own needs, which may not be easy, but is still a different > matter from coming up with something new. >> > > > I agree with this statement, but still hold that Avon was indeed a genius. > Creativeness is not the only criteria for genius. The ability to think > laterally is one, and this is a skill Avon shows in detail. As for > creativeness, I still hold that the sensor deflector is indeed an example of > creativeness. The form of electronics is not what one would expect a computer > guru to be that skilled at. He absorbed the nessacary knowledge, made the > intuitve leaps, then physically built the hardware to mate onto alien > technology. That simply is not something any technician can do. > I also hold that the main reason we don't see Avon designing original > things is that he lacks the time and facilities. Mueller was supported by a > corporation, Ensor had over 30 years of isolation to design Orac, Egrorian had > 10. Besides learning about the Liberator's systems, Avon had to take part in > his share of landing parties, watches, and routine repair functions aboard > ship. The fact he managed to design anything at all is evidence of his genius. > D. Rose > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:24:50 +1100 (EST) > From: Jennifer Becker <opsbabe@yahoo.com> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] unsbuscribe > Message-ID: <19981211192450.5758.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > please unsubscribe me from the list. > Thanks > Jen > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:04:04 +0000 > From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > Message-ID: <BDaU2CAkTac2EwAT@jajones.demon.co.uk> > > In message <d135beec.36716279@aol.com>, Tigerm1019@aol.com writes > >I think Avon was very smart and very good with computers, but I still wouldn't > >describe him as a genius. > > He's a genius. It says so in the publicity material put out by the BBC. > -- > Julia Jones > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:13:18 EST > From: Mac4781@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Avon the genius? > Message-ID: <3a0b931b.36725dde@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Checking my dictionary, the first two definitions for genius are: > > (1) a. Exceptional or transcendent intellectual and creative power: b. One who > possesses such power. (Avon doesn't qualify under this definition to my > mind.) > > (2) A natural talent or inclination. (Avon and many of his collegues qualify > as a genius under this definition.) > > But for my personal perceptions, I only assign the term genius to those who > fall under categoy 1. I consider the creative part to be the main > determination of genius. I'm more inclined to call definition two people > gifted, experts, outstanding, etc. > > Deborah wrote: > > > As for > > creativeness, I still hold that the sensor deflector is indeed an example > of > > creativeness. > > This doesn't work for me. First because it's more adapting a known idea to a > new situation (not creative enough). And second because other minds were > developing the same technology at the same time. For me, a genius has to > conceive of something that is uniquely innovative: Orac, the stardrive, the > Muller android. I think Avon would be the first to admit that he wasn't in > that category. > > > I also hold that the main reason we don't see Avon designing original > > things is that he lacks the time and facilities. > > Avon wasn't a spring chicken when he boarded Liberator. He had plenty of time > to establish creative credentials before then. The Federation didn't appear > to be shy about setting up their creative geniuses with proper facilities > (Plaxton, for one example). > > > Mueller was supported by a > > corporation, Ensor had over 30 years of isolation to design Orac, Egrorian > > had 10. > > The obsessive compulsion to create of Ensor, Egrorian, Muller and Plaxton is > another reason I don't think Avon matches their category of genius. When I > think of a genius, I think of someone for whom creation is essential to > his/her existence. They aren't happy if they aren't puttering away on their > toys. And they'll go to any extreme to be able to do that. Avon didn't have > that devotion to creativity. He wasn't bursting with ideas that demanded his > attention. > > Julia wrote: > > > He's a genius. It says so in the publicity material put out by the BBC. > > Aside from the fact that I don't consider publicity material to be canon, they > were probably assigning him genius per definition two above: very good in his > field. The show never established him as a creative genius, which is the > proof I'd need to assign him definition one status. You can't tell me > something; you have to show me. > > I think the publicity material also referred to Blake as charismatic, but I > also take that with a grain of salt because he didn't capture my interest in a > charismatic way. > > Per definition one genius, the crew member I think comes closest is Dayna, > with her ability to develop innovative weaponry. It would depend on how > innovative her inventions really were. > > Per definition two, many of them qualify. Avon is gifted with computers. > Blake with leadership. Vila with locks. Jenna and Tarrant at piloting. Etc. > > Carol Mc > > -------------------------------- > End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #306 > ************************************** > Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #13 *************************************