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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 131
Today's Topics:
Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Re: [B7L] photo copyright
[B7L] Re: Dark Drama
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
[B7L] re:sleazey vila
Re: [B7L] re:sleazey vila
Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: OT: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Re: The Syndeton Experiment
[B7L] Avon's promises
Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
[B7L] Worst Openings
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] re:sleazey vila
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #130
Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Re: [B7L] Dark drama
[B7L] Hysterical drama
Re: Avon [B7L] the Sunbeam?
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] Dark drama and comedy restructuring
Re: Avon [B7L] the Sunbeam?
[B7L] re:dark drama
Re: [B7L] Attack of the Space Bimbos (was Sleazy Vila)
Re: [B7L] Avon's promises
Re: [B7L] The Syndeton Experiment
[B7L] B7.avi
Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Re: [B7L] re:sleazey vila
[B7L] Paul Darrow
Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:17:05 -0400
From: "Anna Sawitzky" <olddays@idirect.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Message-Id: <199904130716.DAA99320@orion.idirect.com>
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Ann Basart inquired about a "Fawlty Towers" U.S. version:
Well, there was the flop "Amanda's Place", with Bea Arthur quite a
while ago, but now there's the new mid-season replacement show
"Payne", with John Larroquette, which is what Ann's referring to.
Ob B7 mention: Avon, for me, made the series. When YTV
<waves to Penny Dreadful> (Btw, Penny, YTV eventually did show
all of the episodes of B7, but that was after yanking it for a while)
ran the show for the first time, I saw the pilot and wasn't impressed
or very intrigued. I managed to miss the second episode, and
when I saw the third one, I really enjoyed it and rapidly got hooked.
Avon and Vila are my favourites, and I think that any PGP story
has got to have both of them in it, at the very least.
Anna
olddays@idirect.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:20:20 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@mail.geocities.com>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413012020.007dc8b0@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:19 PM 4/12/99 +0100, Neil Faulkner wrote:
>And I'm a Grade One Blowmoulder now...
That comment, my good sir, constitutes entrapment pure and simple.
>Travis' betrayal of the entire human race - I covered this in Wit and Wisdom
>of the Dead (in Star Three). Basically, it more or less boiled down to
>Travis thinking that the entire human race had betrayed -him-. So he was on
>a revenge spree, until the Lurgen brainchip talked him out of it (whetting
>your appetite in case you've not read the story. As a Travis fan you might
>well like it).
When I get rich (say the big bells of Not Bloody Likely) I *promise* I will
purchase every 'zine' recommended to me. I'm quite sure I would like yours,
Neil, you're a very good writer, but for now I shall content myself with
what's in my own head (Don't ask. Don't tell).
My own head tells me to take 'Star One' at face value: Travis *was*
collaborating with the Andromedans to (virtually) eradicate mankind. Nor
was he expecting to get off of Star One alive (he crashed his spaceship,
after all). He was undergoing, albeit on a grander scale (this is Space
*Opera*, after all), the same thought processes as your typical Tower
Killer or McDonald's Mass-Murderer. Ineffable, yes, but not at all
unprecedented.
--Penny "Apocalypse Tomorrow -- Comedy Tonight!" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter Borg <peter_borg@yahoo.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] photo copyright
Message-ID: <19990413081531.5251.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Some things worth noting:
Under UK law, images fall out of copyright if the
person using the image modifies it so that it
effectively is not the same image. An actual number of
modifications is listed, something like seven, I
think.
Anyone who is concerned about image copyright should
take a look at http://www.digimarc.com
Peter.
===
--
Peter Borg
peter_borg@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:22:41 +1000
From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris <parallax@wire.net.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Dark Drama
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413182241.007e5100@wire.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Mind you, Spellbinder was an Australian plus
>> some-european-country-I've-forgotten production. Means you get nifty
>> accents for half your cast.
This is a co-production with Poland and I believe some of it is shot on
location around the castles etc there. It's a beautiful country..
There was the joint Oz/French production of Rush many years ago too, with
that cute little French guy who I later thought was of the Vila-archetype.
That was the obligatory B7 ref, in case you hadn't noticed.
Narrelle
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris
parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax
"The past, present and future are only illusions,
however persistent" - Albert Einstein
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:22:48 EDT
From: AdamWho@aol.com
To: mistral@ptinet.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <65397d4f.244458d8@aol.com>
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In a message dated 99-04-12 04:31:22 EDT, mistral@ptinet.net writes:
<< Although, as far as comparing Vila to pop musicians goes, he's always
reminded me of Phil Collins. I wonder if Vila would enjoy the drums? There's
a fun thought. Recast our heroes as a rock band -- who plays which
instrument? Avon on synths and Cally on bass guitar? Jenna 'flying' on lead
guitar? And Blake doing his best James Brown out front? (Gan can throw the
cape over him and lead him off stage.) Which leaves Tarrant for another
guitar and Dayna and Soolin for backup singers, with Dayna occasionally
filling in on harp and percussion, and Soolin as accessory keyboards. How
about it? <g> >>
I just got a horrible image in my head of the B7 crew singing "Sugar Sugar",
with Jenna banging on a tambourine as Betty, Avon as Reggie, and Blake as
Archie. If anyone's ever seen the cheesy Archie cartoon\music video of "Sugar
Sugar" you'll know what I mean.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:52:47 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <371305DE.35CFA3D9@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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AdamWho@aol.com wrote:
> I just got a horrible image in my head of the B7 crew singing "Sugar Sugar",
> with Jenna banging on a tambourine as Betty, Avon as Reggie, and Blake as
> Archie. If anyone's ever seen the cheesy Archie cartoon\music video of "Sugar
> Sugar" you'll know what I mean.
ROFL! Does that make Vila Jughead?
Mistral
--
"Can't we think about this?"--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:39:52 +1000
From: Sarah Berry <berrys@connexus.apana.org.au>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] re:sleazey vila
Message-ID: <3712A068.C762BAD3@connexus.apana.org.au>
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Could Vila be put up for sexual harassment? Penny wrote:
> I don't think he would, though, because every woman he hits on is clearly
> his superior, power- or status-wise (which is not surprising given his
> level of power and status). Ergo they have nothing to lose by rejecting his
> advances, ergo he can't possibly be "sexually harassing" them, unless I
> greatly misunderstand the meaning of that phrase.
I think you greatly misunderstand. sexual harrassment is unwelcome sexual
behaviour. It might be influenced by a great many factors including the staus
of the indivdiduals concerned, but that doesn't define whether the behaviour is
harrassing or not.
Lorna B wrote later:
> Oh, yes, I think Vila can be *quite* sleazy when given the chance. He can
> be a drunken, lecherous lout, but he can also be quite the gentleman with
> the right female.
Yuck, so if he's with the *wrong* female such behaviour is okay?
>Perhaps stress factors have something to do with which
> behavior he exhibits.
That's true of them/us all.
Sarah Berry.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:03:40 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re:sleazey vila
Message-ID: <3713167B.780FAF3A@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Sarah Berry wrote:
> Could Vila be put up for sexual harassment? Penny wrote:
>
> > I don't think he would, though, because every woman he hits on is clearly
> > his superior, power- or status-wise (which is not surprising given his
> > level of power and status). Ergo they have nothing to lose by rejecting his
> > advances, ergo he can't possibly be "sexually harassing" them, unless I
> > greatly misunderstand the meaning of that phrase.
>
> I think you greatly misunderstand. sexual harrassment is unwelcome sexual
> behaviour. It might be influenced by a great many factors including the staus
> of the indivdiduals concerned, but that doesn't define whether the behaviour is
> harrassing or not.
That's not how the term is usually understood in U.S. companies and the legal
system. If the person exhibiting the unwelcome behaviour has no power over you, the
behaviour isn't considered necessarily harrassment in our legal system -- which is
why the *company* rather than a co-worker is usually considered at fault when it
allows a climate in which harrassment is allowed to flourish. Part of the debate in
Paula Jones's case against Bill Clinton hinges on whether or not she was denied
career advancement, compensation, etc., because of her resistance to his alleged
demands. That's why I was speculating about Soolin and Dayna lodging complaints
*against* Avon *about* Vila -- Vila may be the one making the advances, but Avon's
the one with the power -- the employer, so to speak. In the U.S. legal system, that
would make Avon responsible.
Unwelcome sexual advances are just unwelcome sexual advances -- they may be rude
and disgusting, but they're not illegal unless they interfere with your ability to
make a living in a wholesome environment (actually, I think this has been extended
to getting an education as well). It's when the intimidation caused by the
behaviour interferes with those abilities (because of either the abuse of power by,
or the implicit complicity of, those responsible for the environment) that it
crosses the line into what our U.S. legal system defines as sexual harrassment.
Think of it this way -- you can't file a sexual harrassment suit against the creep
who kept following you around at a party telling you dirty jokes, no matter how
disgusting he got -- he has no power over you. If your boss tells you a dirty joke,
that's iffy. If your boss says 'blow me or you're fired', *that's* harrassment.
Yes, it's a continuum, and yes, the laws are still in the early stages of
interpretation, but no, not all unwelcome sexual advances are harrassment. Having
said that, it does probably differ from country to country.
'Oh, Vila, peel me a grape' Mistral
--
"The locals do have some rather nasty habits."--Belkov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:47:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990413114606.6791G-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Stephen wrote:
>Neil wrote
>
>>I've just a read a piece on the BBC online news that British TV drama
>>has been slated for being 'too dark, too slow, too gritty or too
>>socio-political' to sell to a worldwide audience. The report by the
>>Department of Culture points to sunny upbeat Australian shows like
>>Home and Away as the kind of thing British TV companies ought to be making.
>
>Home and Away ? Home and Away !
>Obviously the Department of Culture should rename itself the
>Department of Cheap Populist Tat.
Shouldn't that be the *People's* Department of Cheap Populist Tat?
Una
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:11:46 +0100
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
Cc: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Message-ID: <RmnwYLASpwE3EwlF@wriding.demon.co.uk>
In message <007501be8527$b1905ec0$4f18ac3e@default>, Neil
Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>
>Penny 'the Poodle' Dreadful wrote:
>>I think when we touched upon this topic here some months ago Neil had an
>>even better explanation than that. (Neil? Where are you, Neil? You haven't
>>killfiled me for that "great big frontal lobes" crack, have you, Neil?)
>
>Oooh, it was tempting... But nah, I've just been hard at work. And I'm a
>Grade One Blowmoulder now. Yay....
>
Is that 'Alpha Grade' Blowmoulder, or 'Superior Grade'
Blowmoulder?
--
Russ Massey
Sirius Games, 161 Montague Street, Worthing,
West Sussex BN11 3BZ
(01903 217334) http://www.wriding.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:56:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990413115337.6791I-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Julia asked:
>Has anyone else seen that production of 1984? A superb example of the
>chilling nightmare genre of British SF, and I suspect it had some
>influence on Terry Nation.
Oh yes - it's phenomenally good. They repeated it a few years ago, and I
saw it recently at the BFI. Superb. I gather it caused quite a stir at the
time - questions in the House, that sort of thing. It's from that
wonderful period when plays were actually transmitted pretty much live -
thank God someone had the presence of mind to record the 2nd transmission.
BBC Choice are currently repeating the epitome of dark drama, 'Edge of
Darkness', presumably as a tribute to Bob Peck.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:33:25 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <37133994.8ED77D04@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Julia Jones wrote:
> In message <3711AFB3.28C9D8DB@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes
> Recast our heroes as a rock band
>
> Damn, my Bizarro zines are on the other side of the Atlantic...
Ahh, it's been done in Bizarro? I shall look forward to that, then; I haven't
read them yet, I'm saving them for a day when I *really* need a laugh.
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:37:55 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <37133AA3.C698E995@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> I got the strange
> idea of turning all four seasons into the history of a rock group,
> constantly changing name and style to suit the times. Fortunately I never
> finished it,
Fortunately, because that means we get to read some of it here. I admit to not
getting *all* the puns, but I still finding myself wishing you'd finish it. Thanx
for the sample.
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:08:53 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: OT: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <371341E4.B8EE32EF@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> The other one I
> confuse is "trash" and "rubbish" (though I am quite clear that
> "garbage" is unequivocally American).
Rubbish. ;-P
Must be some American influence on Boucher's writing then? In 'City',
Kerril and Sherm get into an argument because she calls him garbage.
Over here, prawns often go by the oxymoron 'Jumbo Shrimp'.
Mistral
--
"You're going to need a sense of humor." -- Sherm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:08:07 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: The Syndeton Experiment
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0413140807-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 12 Apr, Murray Smith wrote:
> I have to conclude that it is _far worse_ than 'The Sevenfold
> Crown', because it violates the canon of the series in a huge way. One of
> the most obvious examples is with syndeton, which powers the drives of
> starships. The problem is that no mention was made of syndeton in the
> entire series. According to 'Stardrive', plasma was the substance used.
> Also, the Scorpio has Dr. Plaxton's photonic drive, using a fuel (light)
> that costs nothing. Why, then, would the B7 crew use such an expensive fuel
> such as syndeton? This is only one of many examples I have come across. I
> would suggest that, if the BBC are going to produce more plays, they should
> get a proper scriptwriter.
make that 'proper script editor' and I'm with you all the way. No writer can
know all of the series unless he's a fan.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:26:25 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon's promises
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0413142625-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I've always seen Avon's sense of honour as being fairly important to him. He
hates to make a promise, but if he does he'll try and keep it. (Think of
Neebrox or his promise to Blake at Star One.)
How far would this go?
I've just got to a point in a story where he made a promise, never expecting to
be a situation where he would have to keep it, and now circumstances have
changed.
Keeping the promise means that he could easily lose his life. Breaking it will
cost the lives of other people, though they aren't people Avon is bothered
about. Breaking it will also cost him the respect of someone who used to be a
close friend.
The promise was given under fairly emotive circumstances, but to somebody who
will probably be dead by tomorrow.
How is he likely to react?
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:51:32 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0413065132-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 12 Apr, Julia Jones wrote:
> In message <007501be8527$b1905ec0$4f18ac3e@default>, Neil Faulkner
> <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
> >Travis' betrayal of the entire human race - I covered this in Wit and Wisdom
> >of the Dead (in Star Three). Basically, it more or less boiled down to
> >Travis thinking that the entire human race had betrayed -him-. So he was on
> >a revenge spree, until the Lurgen brainchip talked him out of it (whetting
> >your appetite in case you've not read the story. As a Travis fan you might
> >well like it).
>
> It's a *good* story, and I like the way it shows Travis as more than a
> cardboard character. Something I enjoyed about the series was that the
> baddies weren't bad through and through, and weren't bad from their own
> perspective. _Wit and Wisdom_ shows this wonderfully. I'd recommend it
> to anyone, not just Travis admirers.
The bit they neglected to mention <grin> is that the story is in Star Three
along with several other popular stories such as Lilian Sheperd's 'Haunting of
Haderon' (a must for Avon and Vila fans) and my own 'Amagon'. Not forgetting
work by Vega, Susan Barrett (Riaz), Pita Harris and others.
Details are on my web site.
We've done a lot of minor updates on the web page recently. Hard to say exactly
what, but there's more pictures, some new essays, a few updates to the
Sevencyclopaedia and new stuff in most sections.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:17:57 EDT
From: AdamWho@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Worst Openings
Message-ID: <eaaf9c7c.24450e85@aol.com>
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I'm several days behind everyone else, but here goes:
1. Jenna punched Cally, sending her to the floor. While Cally tried to get
up, Jenna grabbed her by the hair, preparing to ram her head into a console.
"Your time is up, telepathic trash!" Cally managed to break free, kicking at
Jenna. "He is mine, may your hair turn white and choke you in your sleep!"
Vila, fascinated by the brawl, ran to tell the others. "Who's gonna win? I'm
placing my bets on Jenna. Or Cally." Avon shook his head in amazement. "The
time has finally come......" Blake finished his sentence. "a fight to the
death for the love of Olag Gan...."
2. "The children shouldn't see so many ghastly images on television." Avon
nodded, but shot a grimace at Blake while the new crew member wasn't looking.
Blake had a feeling he'd regret this. Even the name didn't fit. Blake, Vila,
Gan, Cally, Jenna, Avon, joined by Mary Whitehouse?
3. "Avon, I knew we should have let someone else go in the shafts." "Blake
made his decision, he died a noble fool, as he lived a noble fool. Our
current problem, and leader, is far more dire." Nova addressed his two crew
members. "Uh.... Avon, Jenna, how does Nova's 7 sound? Anyone disagree?"
4. Romana, long blonde hair piled on her head, walked down the aisle with
Blake. She smiled at him, as he wiped a tear, of joy and sadness, from his
eye. When they reached the end, Blake stood on one side, Romana on the other.
The Doctor played with his scarf, looking into his bag of jelly babies.
"Ahem." He looked at Romana. "Fine, I'm ready. The things I allow you to talk
me into. Who gives these two away?" Blake and Romana said in unison "We do".
"Now to the big question. Orac, do you take K9 to be your lawfully wedded
robot dog?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:20:01 EDT
From: AdamWho@aol.com
To: mistral@ptinet.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <e71c0f36.24450f01@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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In a message dated 99-04-13 04:50:53 EDT, mistral@ptinet.net writes:
<< ROFL! Does that make Vila Jughead? >>
Vila: Jughead
Servalan: Veronica
Gan: Moose
Cally: Midge
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:12:59 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <37137B1B.2E93479E@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tramila wrote:
>
> Avon was sometimes his friend, sometimes simply a tool to do the dirty
> work. In a world of cases, he was on the bottom of the totem pole. Must
> have been hard to live in a situation like that. As a woman, I can
> understand this. Even in the day and age of the modern woman, there is
> still the underlying undercurrent stigma of being female.
This thread is really more about status than gender. The very idea of
Dayna, Soolin, Servalan, Kerril, Pella, Jenna, Cally or most any other
woman *having* to file a complaint against Vila is lafable. These gals
are all killers and they would simply swat him as a little annoyance, as
easily as they would a fly. However none do because, in fact, they are
amused by Vila. His attentions are rather like those of a small, cute,
friendly puppy peeing on your foot in sheer admiration of your
qualities.
Now, had a big dog like Travis I tried any of that, he'd have found
himself toasted by blaster fire in short order.
Despite the obvious shortcomings of the dramatic / adventure roles
offered the femmes on B7 (with the notable exception of Servalan) the
women are universally stronger, more intelligent and more realistic than
the females on most other shows. Star Trek included, for its women are
one dimentional sweetness and light (Nurse Chappel, Counselor Troi,
Doctor Crusher.) Captain Janeway is allowed a little more bad humor. 7
of 9 doesn't so much express moxie as she does a one-trick-pony sexy
pout.
Now on to a feminist rant!
There's not so much a stigma to being female as a stereotype. This is
the last hold out in an era when political correctness is whitewashing
the portrayal of all other classes.
Native Americans are staging noisy protests outside football stadiums to
prevent their class from being stereotyped as warrior savages: The
Washington Redskins and Atlanta Braves and Cleveland Indians have had to
jettison their colorful feathered painted mascots and are in real danger
of losing their Brand Names.
No one would nowadays dare portray blacks in "black face" the stereotype
of the white-eyed servile idiot.
Gay men cannot now be portrayed as limp wristed lisping faggots.
Asians cannot now be portrayed as tiny servile chattering laundry
workers.
Yet women are still widely and unapologetically stereotyped as sex
objects. TV is the worst pepetrator.
Here in Reno, Nevada, a letter to the newspaper called attention to the
fact that sleezy women (i.e. big busted and nearly naked) are paraded
all about town on the tops of taxi cabs that are outfitted with
advertising billboards promoting the topless clubs and strip joints.
Certainly this is damaging to the image of "real" women who live and
work here.
Imagine the uproar if pictures of big-eyed servile blacks were paraded
about on top of taxi cabs. There'd be fire bombings and riots by those
blacks (the men).
The real problem is that women have no men in their "class" (ha ha). If
they did, the men wouldn't be burning bras - they'd be burning the taxi
cabs, magazines, etc. that stereotype and demean them.
Women are their own worst enemies. Women are wimps. Until they stand up
and get united and forceful they will remain relegated to being used.
And I, alas, being a passive INT femme, put myself in that camp. But
biology is destiny. Most women are simply not interested in inciting
violence for any reason. So they will remain subjugated by those who do.
Passive Pat P
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:56:35 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re:sleazey vila
Message-Id: <199904132150.QAA19397@pemberton.magnolia.net>
>Lorna B wrote later:
>> Oh, yes, I think Vila can be *quite* sleazy when given the chance. He
can
>> be a drunken, lecherous lout, but he can also be quite the gentleman with
>> the right female.
Sarah B. said:
>Yuck, so if he's with the *wrong* female such behaviour is okay?
And I said or implied that *where*? Please point it out to me.
I was thinking specifically of his behavior in Spacedrive (I may have the
title in error--the one with the Spacerats) as compared to his behavior in
City at the Edge. He certainly wasn't drooling all over Kerrill the way he
was over Soolin. Since he didn't have the excuse of actually being drunk in
Spacedrive, and Soolin and Dayna didn't appear to be surprised by his
behavior, I figure he must have behaved like that at least now and again.
Especially when drunk.
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:16:13 EDT
From: TMKEENE@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #130
Message-ID: <dae15933.24451c2d@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please stop sending e-mail to me I do not wish to be on the blakes 7 mailing
list .
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:14:03 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-Id: <199904132307.SAA29796@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Una said:
>BBC Choice are currently repeating the epitome of dark drama, 'Edge of
>Darkness', presumably as a tribute to Bob Peck.
I was very saddened to hear Peck had passed on, as he was a favorite of
mine. I really only recall him most strongly from JURASSIC PARK, but I
thought he was excellent. He also had the best legs in the movie, including
Laura Dern's.
:-(
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:34:53 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <00a101be8604$a118c9a0$b514ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Una wrote:
+AD4-'G'day, Bliyke+ACE-'
+AD4-'G'day, Ivon+ACE-'
+AD4-'Beaut day furra barbie+ACE-'
+AD4-
+AD4-Hmmm... doesn't have that edge quite... Still, it's about the same level
+AD4-as 'The Syndeton Experiment'...
Reminds me of an idea I had yonks ago, before I even joined Horizon and
Neighbours was in its heyday, for a 3rd Season story where the crew were
engaged in a desperate struggle to stop Servaleen gaining control of
Foster's World (the lager planet) and thereby deprive Liberator of vital
fuel supplies.
'Strewth, Avon, I ain't so sure about that Dayna sheila. I told her to get
some gear for the barbie and she came back with all these miniature doll
outfits...'
Thankfully that one never got further than the space between my ears.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:49:46 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Message-ID: <00a201be8604$a1e23420$b514ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Russ wrote:
>Is that 'Alpha Grade' Blowmoulder, or 'Superior Grade'
>Blowmoulder?
It just means that my blow jobs are worth five quid an hour.
Why, do you want me to prove it?
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:31:36 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <19990413233136.56698.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Una wrote:
>BBC Choice are currently repeating the epitome of dark drama, 'Edge >of Darkness', presumably as a tribute to Bob Peck.
Like Lorna, I was sorry to hear Bob Peck had died. Brilliant choice for a tribute, if it is one. Wish the ABC would repeat "Edge of Darkness", as I might appreciate it even better now than last time I saw it.
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:40:30 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Hysterical drama
Message-ID: <19990413234030.94401.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Neil wrote:
>engaged in a desperate struggle to stop Servaleen gaining control of
>Foster's World (the lager planet) and thereby deprive Liberator of vital
>fuel supplies.
Servaleen? <giggle> I can see the back story for the character now: having used every feminine wile on her way from checkout chick to mistress of the universe...
>Thankfully that one never got further than the space between my >ears.
A good and a bad thing if it had, Neil. It would've been hilarious (if you like that sort of thing), but it would also have subtracted from the sum total of good writing, not only your own, but others' too.
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:37:56 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Avon [B7L] the Sunbeam?
Message-ID: <2527b12a.24453d64@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/12/99 11:26:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rilliara@juno.com writes:
> Yes, but wouldn't he take all those vows seriously and REFUSE TO
> DATE???? This could be a serious problem.
>
Maybe no dating, but that doesn't necessarily imply any aversion to the
horizontal tango. <grin> Lots of evidence for that in history.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:47:52 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@mail.geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413184752.00799300@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Pat Patera on Vila:
>His attentions are rather like those of a small, cute,
>friendly puppy peeing on your foot in sheer admiration of your
>qualities.
Now there's an image I could have lived without: Vila the piddling
pickpocket pooch.
>Here in Reno, Nevada, a letter to the newspaper called attention to the
>fact that sleezy women (i.e. big busted and nearly naked) are paraded
>all about town on the tops of taxi cabs that are outfitted with
>advertising billboards promoting the topless clubs and strip joints.
>Certainly this is damaging to the image of "real" women who live and
>work here.
Ten thousand Vegas showgirls shaking their moneymakers in my face in hopes
of earning an honest buck could never enrage me half as much as one
born-rich Danielle Crittendon getting credibility galore from the
mainstream press for preaching subservience to seventeen-year-old girls.
(Please put down the cosh, Calle, I shall move it to the Spin List as of now.)
--Penny "I'm Not A Lemon..." Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:50:02 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama and comedy restructuring
Message-Id: <199904140131.UAA21225@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Joanne said:
>>Obviously, I've not made myself terribly clear. The makers were *inspired*
by Fawlty Towers, but because they didn't think Basil would give them the
ratings they wanted they made him into something else. So, of course, you
are right, what they came up with isn't the *least* like Fawlty Towers, but
that was their starting point, their inspiration.<<
Ah, yes, I wasn't reading you clearly. That makes a big difference. I was
reacting to the story as though the writer had expressed annoyance over
NEWHART's being a *remake* of FAWLTY, which it obviously wasn't. (I'm still
dubious as to whether it was even inspired by FAWLTY, but that's so way
off-topic I'll leave it at that.)
Thanks for clarifying.
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:08:30 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Avon [B7L] the Sunbeam?
Message-ID: <19980312.090832.7246.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:37:56 EDT Pherber@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 4/12/99 11:26:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
>rilliara@juno.com writes:
>
>> Yes, but wouldn't he take all those vows seriously and REFUSE TO
>> DATE???? This could be a serious problem.
>>
>Maybe no dating, but that doesn't necessarily imply any aversion to
>the
>horizontal tango. <grin> Lots of evidence for that in history.
>
>Nina
>
True enough. But there was also a significant number of monks and
priests who kept their vows. I was just thinking that Avon's the type to
take promises seriously and, once he actually decides to join a cause, to
take that seriously too. If he was a Jesuit with real convictions, I
think he'd keep the rules.
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:42:49 +1000
From: Sarah Berry <berrys@connexus.apana.org.au>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] re:dark drama
Message-ID: <3713C869.504B6372@connexus.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Julia Jones:
>...who else gets annoyed with "Roddenbury was God"
Oh yes indeedy. If I hear once more about how ground-breaking ST was because of
that interracial kiss or women in 'lofty' positions, I'll explode. It was a
product of its time just as B7 was. As most shows are. Sometimes I don't think
there is such a thing as SF. Good SF ought to be about human dynamics in a
future environment - SFX are just part of the setting.
Sarah Berry.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:51:00 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Attack of the Space Bimbos (was Sleazy Vila)
Message-ID: <013001be8632$ef41b460$b514ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pat P wrote:
+AD4-Despite the obvious shortcomings of the dramatic / adventure roles
+AD4-offered the femmes on B7 (with the notable exception of Servalan) the
+AD4-women are universally stronger, more intelligent and more realistic than
+AD4-the females on most other shows. Star Trek included, for its women are
+AD4-one dimentional sweetness and light (Nurse Chappel, Counselor Troi,
+AD4-Doctor Crusher.) Captain Janeway is allowed a little more bad humor. 7
+AD4-of 9 doesn't so much express moxie as she does a one-trick-pony sexy
+AD4-pout.
Which raises the perennial (and perennially unanswered question) - how
should women be depicted in TVSF? Or TV drama in general, for that matter?
We had a (rather dismal) panel on that subject at Redemption, which failed
to reach anything remotely resembling a conclusion. Much has been said and
written on the subject - AltaZine +ACM-6 was devoted to it. OTOH, while a great
deal has been written about individual male characters, especially snarly
ones beginning with A, not a lot seems to have been said about the general
depiction of men in TVSF. Why should women have to go under the microscope
with such depressing regularity while their male counterparts are spared
this (humiliating?) process?
What are the usual depictions of women in SF? We can have the angelic
bimbo - a male fantasy. Or the sadistic poison queen (eg Servalan) - also a
male fantasy. Or the cold bitch (Soolin) - ditto. Or the gutsy macho
action woman (a la Ripley) - same again. Then there's the empathic nursey
type (Cally/Troi) - guess what? I dunno, I seem to see some kind of pattern
emerging here...
The depressing thing is, any attempt to pull a character out of one
particular pigeonhole almost inevitably only succeeds in filing her under
another one. I'm not sure I can see any way out of this.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 05:05:37 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's promises
Message-ID: <013101be8632$f0451aa0$b514ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Judith wrote:
+AD4-Keeping the promise means that he could easily lose his life. Breaking it
will
+AD4-cost the lives of other people, though they aren't people Avon is bothered
+AD4-about. Breaking it will also cost him the respect of someone who used to
be a
+AD4-close friend.
+AD4-
+AD4-The promise was given under fairly emotive circumstances, but to somebody
who
+AD4-will probably be dead by tomorrow.
+AD4-
+AD4-How is he likely to react?
By being his usual smart-arse self and finding a way to keep his promise,
stay very much alive, and basically prove what a smug git he is.
If it's good enough for the aired series, it's good enough for you.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 05:38:40 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Syndeton Experiment
Message-ID: <013301be8632$f2d22e20$b514ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Una wrote:
+AD4-4. I was able to stick on 'Mark of Kane' and 'The Logic of Empire'
afterwards
+AD4-and hear what B7 radio plays can really be like.
I only got to hear these recently (on the train down to Somerset for my
Easter hols) and I finished them with mixed feelings. On the one hand,
production is superb (why couldn't they have had sound effects like that in
the series?) and it was great to hear the actors reprising their original
roles. On the other, there wasn't a great deal of substance to either.
Each tape runs to something like the length of a TV episode (though I may be
wrong since I haven't timed them) but seemed to have less plot than all but
the thinnest of Terry Nation's more desperate efforts. Something to do with
it being audio only, perhaps.
Still, there were some great lines in there, whether it was old jokes
recycled ('Sit down, keep your brains warm') or clever takes on the
characters ('Avon, what do you call your ship?' 'My Ship.') and plenty of
references to make it clear that the writers know their subject - all very
welcome. I wouldn't want to regard either tape as 'canonical', but as audio
fanfic they're not bad at all.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:49:44 +1000
From: Sandy Douglas <scdg@primus.com.au>
To: space-city@world.std.com
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] B7.avi
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990414154944.00853c90@mail.primus.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
David Murray used to have an excellent B7 site that featured downloadable
(?) .avis from the episodes however the site seems to have died. Does
anyone know its whereabouts or if there is another site with this feature.
Its just before I had a Mac and the files would not convert and now I have
a PC the site is nowhere to be found:(
Thanks,
Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:00:53 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Message-ID: <guffzAAVZ4E3Ewic@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Marcel-1.46-0413065132-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Mon 12 Apr, Julia Jones wrote:
>> In message <007501be8527$b1905ec0$4f18ac3e@default>, Neil Faulkner
>> <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>> >Travis' betrayal of the entire human race - I covered this in Wit
and Wisdom
>> >of the Dead (in Star Three). Basically, it more or less boiled down
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>The bit they neglected to mention <grin> is that the story is in Star Three
We did? :-)
Yes, *all* of Star Three is wonderful. Go out and buy it if you haven't
already got it. But I particularly liked _Wit and Wisdom_, as it managed
to combine hard sf with character study, not all that common.
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:35:43 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re:sleazey vila
Message-ID: <oAZ9YBAPR2E3EwB9@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <3713167B.780FAF3A@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes
>Yes, it's a continuum, and yes, the laws are still in the early stages of
>interpretation, but no, not all unwelcome sexual advances are harrassment.
>Having
>said that, it does probably differ from country to country.
It does. A persistant pattern of unwanted sexual behaviour is sexual
harrassment in the UK regardless of whether the person carrying out the
harrassment is in a position to threaten the victim's career, and a
company could be sued for not putting a stop to it. The most common
routes are indirect sexual discrimination and constructive dismissal.
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:37:13 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0414063713-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Paul Darrow is a confirmed guest for the Cult TV Convention to be held 17-20
September this year at Pontin's Weston-Super-Mare.
This news will shortly appear on their web site http://culttv.base.org.
Please note that this appearance (as convention appearances by actor guests
normally are) is subject to work/family committments.
Cult TV is a very wide-ranging convention covering a wide range of fandoms. It's
a good con for activities in addition to guest talks and is one I've enjoyed in
the past. (I think there's a con report on my web page for a previous Cult TV
con)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:57:56 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@mail.geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990414005756.007c74a0@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:17 AM 4/13/99 -0400, Anna Sawitzky wrote:
>(Btw, Penny, YTV eventually did show all of the episodes of B7, but
>that was after yanking it for a while)
The wretches! Ah well, this way I got to see 'Blake' for the very first
time without commercial interludes, which certainly do detract from the
dramatic pacing -- at the same time I also got to see several others
without commercials for the first time, including two of my all-time fave
raves, and they are *much* better that way.
--Penny "Pangloss" Dreadful
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #131
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