From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #149 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/149 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 149 Today's Topics: [B7L] The Keeper and Star One Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (long) Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (long) Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers) Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant? Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers) [B7L] Re: Orbit v Shakespeare Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (long) [B7L] zine prices Re: [B7L] Test [B7L] Re: Curious things in Star One Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit v Shakespeare [B7L] "Man of Iron" for US B7 Fans Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant? Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit v Shakespeare ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:47:33 PDT From: "Stephen Date" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] The Keeper and Star One Message-ID: <19990428084734.79591.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Having watched both eps last night.... There is a rather desultory discussion about the possibility of using , rather than destroying Star One in the Keeper. It is alluded to in Star One but no-one really takes it up. I liked Judith's idea that Avon was testing Blake but couldn't really see it (pity, I like the idea of Avon as Mephistopheles). My own view is that as a computer boffin Avon would be reluctant to blow up a technologically sophisticated computer complex as a matter of course. Wading in blood is one thing but wading in gigabytes would be wasteful. Other questions: Previous eps have established that Jenna can look after herself (Time Squad for example) so why do her combat skills desert her in The Keeper ? When Avon starts shouting "Where are the others ?" in the Keeper, is any one else reminded of Vila asking "Where's Tarrant ?" in Blake ? I must say that it's the first time I really noticed that bit and it quite shocked me. Avon forgetting to hide the fact he cares ? The Andromedan fleet ? Stephen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:11:49 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: Una McCormack To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (long) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mistral writes: And Alison responded: Interestingly, as far as I am aware, it's only Western thought which has this idea of progress related to a civilization. Many other cultures have the notion of *personal* progress, but it's only in the West that it's transposed beyond the individual. I think it's inherited from Greek and Roman ideas of Ages of Man (Golden, Silver, Iron). I always thought this was a very interesting thing. No doubt someone can prove me wrong. Una ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:44:58 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (long) Message-ID: <001901be9175$074f6f00$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una and I correctly identify and zoom in on our point of contention :-) > But 'progress' is a valid concept if you take it to mean 'things >can be improved from how they are now'.> > >Interestingly, as far as I am aware, it's only Western thought which has >this idea of progress related to a civilization. Many other cultures have >the notion of *personal* progress, but it's only in the West that it's >transposed beyond the individual. I actually don't like Confucianism all that much, but I do think it had a very clear idea that society could get out of kilter and would have to be rectified by force if necessary. They had a concept that an established ruler could lose his political mandate (called 'the will of heaven') and good men were then obligated to work to overthrow the regime. Sikhism is also a very social religion, with an eithic that people should struggle to reform society, not just themselves. Interestingly I think you could cast Blake as a Sikh, without changing any of his dialogue, and the story would still make sense. Cheers Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:52:12 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers) Message-ID: <21841b18.24586c8c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/27/99 3:58:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk writes: > Avon is one of those rare people who have enough independence of mind to be > able to question authority. Surprisingly few people do. A lot more people might be capable of it if they didn't have it squashed out of them early on by the conformist pressure of society. One of the things that offended me most as an adolescent was adults who would tell you to think for yourself, but then get outraged if you didn't act like the rest of the sheep. It took a lot longer, though, to recognize the peer pressure kids put on each other to get the same results. I expect that Avon was probably pretty much an outcast in his schooldays. Nina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:32:37 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant? Message-ID: <005401be918e$9503f280$70458cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellynne wrote: >It may also be that, as Cally's a telepath who can occassionally pick up >on flashes of emotion or thought from nontelepath's... I'm not entirely convinced that she can. She did state explicitly in Time Squad that she was unable to read minds. The two instances that are generally cited to contradict this are - 1) Horizon, where she appears to kow quite a bit about Movo and how he died (the Sevencyclopaedia says that she got this information from Orac, though I no longer recall this bit of the script. However, since it's in the 7Cyclo, it must be right:)) 2) Hostage, where her divination of Avon's guilt at putting Blake in danger is sometimes attributed to her psionic capability. Hardly unambiguous, though. AFAIC, Cally can only receive from other telepaths. Neil , she didn't see Anna >trying to draw (in which case she should have pulled her own gun [what >can I say? I'm tired of those movie 'heroines' who stand around and >scream while the hero fights to stay alive, especially when there's a gun >in reach]) but if she had only felt sudden, deadly intent, she might have >naturally cried out a warning without shooting. After all, intent isn't >action, and Anna could have had a back up plan where killing her would >percipitate events (deadman's switch, etc.). > >Ellynne > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:47:36 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers) Message-ID: <005501be918e$96108080$70458cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral vs Judith: +AD4APg- It wouldn't be, of course+ADs- but I never get the impression that +ACo-all+ACo-, or even +AD4APg- most Federation citizens are permanently drugged to the point of +AD4APg- insensibility. +AD4-It's pretty clear from the first episode that everyone is drugged en masse, +AD4-except the higher grades like people working for the Justice Department. Sorry, Judith, but I'm with Mistral on this one. The first episode only tells us that the people on Earth are dosed with suppressants, and that the levels have been raised as a response to growing levels of dissidence. So all those zombies stomping around in the opening shots can't necessarily be taken as a typical selection of Federation citizenry. I'm more inclined to think that large scale tranquilisation of the populace was both local and temporary. There is no further reference to suppressants after Spacefall, I believe, until Pylene-50 comes on the scene in the 4th season. Neil 'You know that we systematically tranquilise whole sections of the population?' - Judge Dredd, 2000AD +ACM-665 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:36:12 +0100 From: Steve Rogerson To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Orbit v Shakespeare Message-ID: <3727470A.C9C6D0D7@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sestina said: "I think Roger mentioned an essay on Orbit v. Shakespeare in Cult Times (?): Would anyone be so kind as to either summarize the argument or transcribe the article for us Yanks who can't get that periodical too readily? I'd love to read the analysis." It was me actually. Mistral also asked this, and I sent her the following: Basically the article bases its claims to a similarity between Orbit and Shakespeare on the grounds that both use extremely bizarre situations and hugely strange characters. The author, William Irvine, cites The Tempest, Twelfth Night and Hamlet as examples. In Orbit you have RSC-experienced actors perpetuating a fair amount of nonsense in a similar way that you do in the above plays. You can order back issues from: http://www.visimag.com -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "What is it with you and holes?" Xena to Gabrielle, Paradise Found ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:25:23 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (long) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 28 Apr, Alison Page wrote: > I actually don't like Confucianism all that much, but I do think it had a > very clear idea that society could get out of kilter and would have to be > rectified by force if necessary. They had a concept that an established > ruler could lose his political mandate (called 'the will of heaven') and > good men were then obligated to work to overthrow the regime. > > Sikhism is also a very social religion, with an eithic that people should > struggle to reform society, not just themselves. Interestingly I think you > could cast Blake as a Sikh, without changing any of his dialogue, and the > story would still make sense. Oh, do it, please. I love stories that set religion in the future. I'm an athiest myself, but religion has been a part of society as long as we've had recorded history and I see no reason why that should change in the future. SF so often ignores that aspect of cultures. I only place B7 around 800 years in the future and most major world religions have been around longer than that already. Blake's 7 hardly mentions religion apart from saying that the Federation banned it ('Pressure Point' when Gan has to ask Blake was a church was). I've worked it into a couple of my stories in various ways (I treat the Amagons as Muslims and like the idea that underground Christians still exist, but I don't know enough about any other religion to include them) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:02:05 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] zine prices Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A reminder that my zine prices changed on Monday to reflect the new postage rates. The Endless Farce: A Blake's 7 slash (homosexual) zine comprising a sequence of four sex comedies written by Predatrix. Plenty of Cock and a Fair Bit of Bull (written with Another Lady) features Avon and Blake finding that they do have one thing in common. This story is currently available online in the webzine Oracnid. The next three stories detail the addition of Gan to the menage, why orgies are bad for your health, and how one amuses oneself while recovering. Very little angst, a lot of fun, and a great deal of sex. Estimated word count 71,000. UK £6; Europe £6.70; Zone 1 (eg US) £7.70 or US$13 cash; Zone 2 (eg Aus/NZ) £7.90 Tales from Space City: Volume One Tales from Space City is an eclectic mix of gen, het and slash (homosexual) Blake's 7 material written by the members of the Space City mailing list. The stories range from the serious to the very silly, and from less than half a page to nine pages. A/B is well represented, but the adult stories include a wide range of pairings (and occasionally more). The only thing they have in common is that they are all very well written. 106 000 words and 130 pages of non-editorial text, plus 10 monochrome and 1 colour internal illustrations, colour cover. All art by Val Westall. UK £10.20; Europe £11.20; Zone 1 (eg US) £13.30 or US$23 cash; Zone 2 (eg Aus/NZ) £13.70 The above zines are agented by Judith Proctor - agented prices are available at the website at http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7, along with details for ordering in US and Australian currency. As with other zines published or agented by Judith, they are also available through Linda Knights. Vem Quest: A group story from the Space City mailing list. Ramblings about the US$/sterling exchange rate led to speculation on what a vem was actually worth, and over the next few days many of the Citizens reported strange occurrences with their bank accounts, odd bequests... It was obvious that the only thing to do with all those vems was to book the space cruise someone had found in a rather unusual brochure at the travel agents, and so began the Vem Quest. A warning to non list members - it is a Blake's 7 story, but it features list members as original characters and contains a lot of list in-jokes. Buy at your own risk if you aren't a member of either Space City or the main list at Lysator. Contains non-explicit adult material of a varied nature, including far too many of the Citizens' personal fantasies... 37 pages and 33,000 words of non-editorial text, cover art by Val Westall. UK £2.60; Europe £3.10; Zone 1 (eg US) £3.70 or US$7 cash; Zone 2 (eg Aus/NZ) £3.80 Please state that you are over the age of 18 and aware of the explicit homosexual nature of much of the contents when ordering Tales from Space City or Endless Farce. Email me at zineorder@jajones.demon.co.uk for further details (such as what my bank is willing to cash without charge *this* month...) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:22:30 EDT From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Test Message-ID: <34c74608.2458b9f6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/27/99 5:37:26 AM Central Daylight Time, stephendate@hotmail.com writes: << Hi to those of you who read the tests ! Just checking as my posts seem not to be turning up. >> Well, this one turned up! :) Gail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:43:30 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Curious things in Star One Message-ID: <199904281543_MC2-73BE-63F9@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sally writes about Avon: > I agree would be well read (about anything that *interests* him) Exactly - cf the passage of Conan Doyle where Watson lists the extraordinarily detailed knowledge Sherlock Holmes has of specific subjects he considers relevant, and the even more extraordinary gaps of knowlege in subjects he thinks irrelevant. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:53:48 PDT From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit v Shakespeare Message-ID: <19990428225348.73097.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Steve quoted: >In Orbit you have RSC-experienced actors perpetuating a fair amount >of nonsense in a similar way that you do in the above plays. SFX no 49 was in my local newsagency yesterday, and parts of it seemed to be on a similar mental track - RADA-trained savages, for instance. I wonder what the writer of the Orbit v Shakespeare article had been reading recently... On a note related to the death of Anna Grant, I couldn't help laughing at the caption on a photograph, in the Couch Potato section, that said "The dance of the Sugarplum Avon". I'm afraid I may never be able to take that part of Rumours of Death seriously again Regards Joanne (so much for Muses, I need more inspiration, and quickly - I'm stuck!) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:02:28 EDT From: Bizarro7@aol.com To: space-city@world.std.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] "Man of Iron" for US B7 Fans Message-ID: <4598a4fb.245925c4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had enough inquiries now so that I'll just make a blanket statement. If anyone in the USA wants me to make a copy of the Paul Darrow B7 script MAN OF IRON, I'll send it to you postage paid for $5.00. My addy is: Leah Rosenthal 1402 Allison Avenue Altamonte Springs, FL 32701 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:46:00 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 28 Apr, Neil Faulkner wrote: > Ellynne wrote: > >It may also be that, as Cally's a telepath who can occassionally pick up > >on flashes of emotion or thought from nontelepath's... > > I'm not entirely convinced that she can. She did state explicitly in Time > Squad that she was unable to read minds. The two instances that are > generally cited to contradict this are - > > 1) Horizon, where she appears to kow quite a bit about Movo and how he died > (the Sevencyclopaedia says that she got this information from Orac, though I > no longer recall this bit of the script. However, since it's in the 7Cyclo, > it must be right:)) > > 2) Hostage, where her divination of Avon's guilt at putting Blake in danger > is sometimes attributed to her psionic capability. Hardly unambiguous, > though. > > AFAIC, Cally can only receive from other telepaths. She felt Vila's pain in Aftermanth when his broken arm was set. That one's pretty conculsive that she can recieve strong emotions from non-telepaths. (She did get the informatin about Movo fom Orac - there's transcripts of each epiusode stored at Lysator. They're wonderful if you want to check details and don't have the video) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:11:43 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit v Shakespeare Message-ID: <3727A3BF.8D402730@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joanne MacQueen wrote: > "The dance of the Sugarplum Avon". > (so much for Muses, I need more inspiration, and quickly - I'm stuck!) No. You've had your inspiration, the rest is perspiration. Erato ;-P -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #149 **************************************