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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 16
Today's Topics:
Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #314
Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #303
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:20:35 GMT
From: "Dita Stanistraken" <d.stanistraken@dundee.ac.uk>
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #314
Message-Id: <E0zzdY4-00022J-00@pp.dundee.ac.uk>
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> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:02:51 +0100 (MET)
> From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #314
> To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
> Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> ------------------------------
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 314
>
> Today's Topics:
> Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> [B7L] Re: Christmas
> Re: [B7L] 'Duel'...
> [B7L] Redemption
> Re: [B7L] 'Duel'...
> Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> [B7L] Clive James on TV
> [B7L] Re: Clive James on TV
> [B7L] Clive Jqmes
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:25:04 +1000
> From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au>
> To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> Message-ID: <001001be2cbb$6ae2af60$6f6f6f6f@tenzil>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> >Looking at mt collection of Blakes 7 vidos, I see that a most of the
> >videos say "Contains 2 complete unedited episodes". Can anyone tell me
> >exactly which episodes in the series have been edited and what exactly
> >has been removed from them?
> >
> >Chris.
>
>
> Some videos were released with three episodes on each tape, edited to fit
> three episodes into two hours.
>
> Taina
> ===========================
> Is there a mind/body problem?
> And if so, which is it better to have?
> - Woody Allen
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:39:02 -0000
> From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
> To: "Julia Jones" <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>,
> <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> Message-Id: <199812211050.KAA20854@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> ----------
> > From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
> > The tape of Rescue is allegedly uncut, but in fact is different to the
> > broadcast version.
>
> Yeah, but it's an alternate version rather than strictly an edited one, so
> that's why they can call it uncut.
>
> I wonder if the rerelease will be the broadcast version?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:25:41 GMT
> From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray )
> To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: [B7L] Re: Christmas
> Message-Id: <199812211325.NAA19224@dux1.tcd.ie>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> To all my fellow Space Citizens,
>
> Due to Christmas preparations and Christmas itself, I will be
> 'offline' as regards my email; so I would like to wish you all a Merry
> Christmas and a Happy New Year.
>
> Yours,
>
> Murray
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:12:33 +0100 (BST)
> From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Duel'...
> Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1221081233-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> On Mon 21 Dec, Penny Dreadful wrote:
> > >I never thought Servalan surprised him that much. They recognised
> > >one another's ruthless streak.
> >
> > Yes, but his ruthlessness is generally of the neat-and-tidy kind,
> > efficiency. Like (arguably) a machine (I swear I will at some future
> > point construct a coherent and seamless argument vis a vis Travis's
> > machineliness). Servalan's desires, and her schemes, are murkier, much
> > more complex. So he identifies with her ruthlessness, but this doesn't
> > mean he can predict her behaviour.
>
> That's true. Her scheming is more complicated than his. I think Travis was a
> straightforward man in that respect at least. I think he would look for a
> direct solution to a problem. Having said that, was it him or Servalan who came
> up with the virus idea in 'Project Avalon'? I got the impression that the
> scheme was Travis's.
>
> > >I think Travis lost his ability to read Servalan as time went by. He became
> > >more fanatic and inward looking and she respected him less.
> >
> > She bent and bashed her toy until it broke, and then it wasn't fun to
> > play with any more. How seasonally apropos.
>
> Yes, she strained him further and further. She took his loyalty to the system
> and bent it further and further as he became more and more aware of how much she
> sought her own power. 'Orac' is a classic example where Servalan was actually
> trying to defraud the Federation. Then there were the occasions where Travis
> could have killed Blake if Servalan hadn't prevented him because of the danger
> to her own life. I think Travis disapproved of her for that, but loyalty to the
> chain of command was deeply ingrained into him.
>
> Do you think Travis would have held his own life in such high regard? I think
> he would have been willing to die to kill Blake (he was certainly willing to do
> it in 'Gambit'.) Would he have been willing to die if he thought his death
> would serve the Federation as a whole? (I'm talking about season 1 Travis here,
> before his loyalties became stretched to breaking point)
>
> Judith
>
> --
> http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
>
> Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
> 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
> http://www.smof.com/redemption/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:11:57 +0100 (BST)
> From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
> Subject: [B7L] Redemption
> Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1221151157-354Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> We lost Blake. We gained Travis!
>
>
> Brian Croucher will be coming to Redemption. He'll be there for all three days
> (work permitting, of course).
>
> We're looking into the possibility of getting Stephen Greif for a day as well,
> but nothing is confirmed there yet.
>
> Judith
> --
> http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
>
> Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
> 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
> http://www.smof.com/redemption/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:29:44 EST
> From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Duel'...
> Message-ID: <5e1892aa.367ea1a8@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 98-12-21 13:36:32 EST, Judith wrote:
>
> << Do you think Travis would have held his own life in such high regard? I
> think
> he would have been willing to die to kill Blake (he was certainly willing to
> do
> it in 'Gambit'.) Would he have been willing to die if he thought his death
> would serve the Federation as a whole? (I'm talking about season 1 Travis
> here,
> before his loyalties became stretched to breaking point)
> >>
>
> I think the first season Travis would have sacrificed his life if he thought
> it would benefit the Federation. I also think he was willing to sacrifice
> others lives as well and became more and more ticked at Servalan because her
> motives were so often selfish.
>
> Tiger M
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:19:31 +0000
> From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> Message-ID: <UAMhWLAzEpf2EwK3@jajones.demon.co.uk>
>
> In message <199812211050.KAA20854@gnasher.sol.co.uk>, Dangermouse
> <master@sol.co.uk> writes
> >> From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
> >> The tape of Rescue is allegedly uncut, but in fact is different to the
> >> broadcast version.
> >
> >Yeah, but it's an alternate version rather than strictly an edited one, so
> >that's why they can call it uncut.
>
> I'd call removing two significant scenes cutting rather than an
> alternative version. All right, so the scenes in question are about two
> seconds long, but they're important in temrs of character development.
> >
> >I wonder if the rerelease will be the broadcast version?
> >
> Fat bloody chance.
> --
> Julia Jones
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:40:58 +0100 (BST)
> From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT
> Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1221174058-566Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> On Mon 21 Dec, Taina Nieminen wrote:
> > >Looking at mt collection of Blakes 7 vidos, I see that a most of the
> > >videos say "Contains 2 complete unedited episodes". Can anyone tell me
> > >exactly which episodes in the series have been edited and what exactly
> > >has been removed from them?
> > >
> > >Chris.
> >
> >
> > Some videos were released with three episodes on each tape, edited to fit
> > three episodes into two hours.
>
> Those were the infamous compilation tapes which are thankfully no longer
> available.
>
> As far as I know, the slight edit to the fight scene in Spacefall (I think they
> took out a shot of Avon clapping his hands over someone's ears) and the editing
> changes to 'Rescue' are the only changes to the tapes.
>
> Has anyone thought of writing to Fabulous Films and asking them to use the aired
> version of 'Rescue' when they get to that stage in the releases?
>
> Judith
>
> --
> http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
>
> Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
> 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
> http://www.smof.com/redemption/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:12:00 -0500
> From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
> To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>,
> Space City <space-city@world.std.com>
> Subject: [B7L] Clive James on TV
> Message-ID: <199812211912_MC2-646A-8879@compuserve.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Well, that wasn't as bad as it might have been. We saw Sally. We saw
> Jackie. We didn't see Brian the Snail (maybe Clive James decided Jarvik
> was an even sillier monster). He wasn't nearly as rude about Blake's 7 as
> he was on paper in 1980. And we got several seconds of Moonbase Three! I
> want more!
>
> The Dalek man was quite nice, too.
>
> Harriet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:00:08 PST
> From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: [B7L] Re: Clive James on TV
> Message-ID: <19981222010009.770.qmail@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Harriet said: > We didn't see Brian the Snail
>
> Definitely need an explanation here. Seeing as you mentioned Jarvik,
> could it be that the reference is to the kairopan gobbler in "Harvest of
> Kairos"? (ARGH! Great gaps in my B7 education are showing!)
>
> >He wasn't nearly as rude about Blake's 7 as he was on paper in >1980.
>
> Maybe he's a little less enamoured of "Star Trek" these days - one of
> his reviews suggested that series was his preferred choice of trashy
> television. Then again, I have the strong impression that all science
> fiction on television came under the heading of "trashy television", so
> far as he was concerned while reviewing television.
>
> Regards
> Joanne
>
> It's biliousness as usual in my corner of the kitchen
> --The Whitlams, "You Sound Like Louis Burdett"
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:53:04 -0000
> From: "Taylor, Steve [CCS]" <S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk>
> To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: [B7L] Clive Jqmes
> Message-ID: <C3C58868ED93D111B04A0800097D2D9D5BA710@lis-exchange1.lmu.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Well - what a lot of publicity - and a fair few cheap shots.
>
> Sally and Jacqueline in full flow - criticising the development of Jenna
> (agreed) and Servalan's costumes (Shirley Bassey - JP).
>
> Still - not that bad - and I actually liked the 'clow fighting' concept.
>
> SteveT
> who unsubed yesterday for the hols but had to come back for this
>
> Some interesting comments on Dr Who as well
>
> --------------------------------
> End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #314
> **************************************
>
Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:19:10 GMT
From: "Dita Stanistraken" <d.stanistraken@dundee.ac.uk>
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #303
Message-Id: <E0zzdX4-00021G-00@pp.dundee.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:02:21 +0100 (MET)
> From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #303
> To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
> Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> ------------------------------
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 303
>
> Today's Topics:
> Re: [B7L] Gotcha all.
> [B7L] Chain snowballs.
> [B7L] In laws and out laws...
> Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Re: [B7L] A New Character
> [B7L] Re: Gotcha all
> Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Re: [B7L] A New Character
> RE: [B7L] A New Character
> [B7L] Manchester Meet, Saturday December 12
> Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Fwd: [B7L] A New Character
> [B7L] "Good and evil, there never is one without the other"
> Tiresome Ethics (was Re: [B7L] A New Character)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:08:57 -0000
> From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
> To: "Calle Dybedahl" <calle@lysator.liu.se>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] Gotcha all.
> Message-Id: <199812080020.AAA09085@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> ----------
> > From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> > Subject: Re: [B7L] Gotcha all.
> > Date: 06 December 1998 19:08
> >
> > Spam and chain-letter-type things are not welcome on this list. Please
> > don't do that again.
>
> Well, it wasn't either- just trying to inject a little festive fun.
>
> Sorry that humour doesn't seem to be so welcome.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 02:00:38 GMT
> From: dixonm@access.mountain.net (Meredith Dixon)
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: [B7L] Chain snowballs.
> Message-ID: <366c872b.165787721@cyberplanet.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> I just saw Dangermouse's rejoinder to Calle -- that the Internet
> snowball he sent was "not a chain letter." It most certainly
> *is* a chain letter; I've seen those confounded snowballs all
> over the net, and I'm glad Calle spoke up in response.
>
> I didn't find the "Internet snowball fight" particularly funny
> the first time -- several weeks ago, by the way -- that I received
> a posting, and the joke definitely hasn't improved with age.
>
> Thanks, Calle!
>
> Meredith Dixon
> dixonm@access.mountain.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:55:03 -0800
> From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com (Penny L Kjelgaard)
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: [B7L] In laws and out laws...
> Message-ID: <19981207.190233.-217145.0.penny_kjelgaard@juno.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> My darling 7 year old (remember when she was 5?) daughter has given me
> another memorable exchange. Missy was practicing getting up with her
> hands joined behind her back (hence the following conversation,) and of
> course Travis entered her mind.
>
> Missy: Mamma, Servalan was chasing both Blake and Travis...and for no
> good reason!
> Mamma: She had a very good reason. They were both OUTLAWS.
> Missy: And what was she...and INLAW?
>
>
>
> Peace,
> Penny
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:02:28 EST
> From: LordRab@aol.com
> To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-ID: <10c7ee97.366cc0f4@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 98-12-07 09:21:38 EST, you write:
>
> << Kerr Avon) :
>
> "I rarely comment on the Ethics of others"
> >>
>
> Nice line! Though the episode of Voyager you mention is one I actually
> almost liked. They may have chosen the "PC" solution, but I didn't get the
> feel that anyone was happy with the outcome.
> So what would the B7 folks have done? Avon, as you pointed, probably would
> have kept the data. What of the others? Deborah Rose >>
>
>
> I "almost" liked that episode myself ! I would have prefered a bit more
> debate about the ethics of using Cardasian medical data obtained from gruesome
> experiments on their prisoners. Although to their credit, the Star Trek
> universe does not rely over heavily on rock 'em sock 'em fight scenes ( but
> look out for Data's "lock and load" scene from the upcoming movie) they still
> manage to water down the salient points when they dare to be different.
>
> I don't think that we can judge the morals and ethics of other people from
> other times by contemporary standards. Rather than say what I think the B7
> folks would have done I'll say what I would have had them do ( After all, they
> are fictional characters and at the mercy of writers, heh heh ). In that
> future, people would have accepted that most of our medical data has usually
> been obtained from experimenting on live prisoners, albeit creatures slightly
> lower on the food chain than us, and that even delicious Orange Tang probably
> came at higher price than we'll ever know. ( for all you Brits, Tang powder
> was developed by NASA as an artificial orange juice substitute for Astronauts
> in their top secret laboratories and then put on the market on the shelf next
> to the Spam)
>
> Will the future be more humane? Will humans find a substitute for lab mice?
> The B7 universe is not quite the Age of Enlightenment Part 2, but Star Trek's
> future humans are knockin' on Utopias door !
> Yikes ! Will Utopia be that smarmy? Blake and crew would keep the data without
> a second thought and move on to some planet for a holiday only to find that
> the planet is actually the pet asteroid of an inter galactic entity from the
> WalMartian Cluster and that the delectible fruits and berries that they have
> been eating are really..........
>
> Well, anyway, I am reminded of a scene from 'Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
> when Ford Prefect and Co. are dining at the Restaurant at the End of the
> Universe, and is revolted by the creature who offers up it's own succulent
> shanks as the main course.
> One man's stew is another man's best friend.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Rab
>
> "If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?"
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:19:46 -0000
> From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
> To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-Id: <E0znLCh-0001cw-00@post.mail.demon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Rab said -
>
> > Will the future be more humane? Will humans find a substitute for lab
> mice?
> > The B7 universe is not quite the Age of Enlightenment Part 2, but Star
> Trek's
> > future humans are knockin' on Utopias door !
>
>
> I've been thinking lately about what they call the 'Whig view of history'
> The rough idea is that Whig's see history as progress ('things can only get
> better') they believe in reason and meritocracy. The contrast is with
> 'Tories' who see history as retreat, are pessimistic about reason, and
> believe in established power relations.
>
> The reason I've been thinking about this is that I think the so-called
> left/liberal governments we have at present in places like the USA, the UK,
> Germany etc. are actually Whig governments. I think this makes them easier
> to understand, rather than thinking about left and right.
>
> Anyway, that aside, I think Star Trek is Whig SF. Enlightenment,
> redemption, science, progress. I'm not knocking it, just mentioning it.
>
> The glib thing to say would be that B7 is Tory SF. However I really don't
> think it is, because it is so negative about the weaknesses and smugness of
> established powers, and relatively positive about the idea of smashing them
> up. Anyway, unlike Penny I think this makes the B7 writers freer than the
> ST writers, because while there aren't any 'goodies' in B7, there aren't
> any (real) baddies in ST. In line with the Whig view there are just people
> who haven't yet become enlightened by progress.
>
> Alison
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:50:54 -0500
> From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: [B7L] Re: Gotcha all
> Message-ID: <199812080851_MC2-62D6-C871@compuserve.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Oh... when I saw a sort of circle and the word "squish" I assumed that
> Dangermouse had finally come up with a picture of the alleged extra-marital
> shagging. I must have spent too much time on Space City, I suppose.
>
> Harriet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:10:32 -0800
> From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-ID: <366C98A8.6BF2@geocities.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> LordRab@aol.com wrote:
> > All I could think of was a line from my favorite Blake's 7 character
> > (surprise!!!! It's Kerr Avon):
> > "I rarely comment on the Ethics of others"
>
> Hail Lord Rab!
> and welcome to the list.
> Happily, none of the B7 characters are overly zealous when it comes to
> morals - of anyone. This Federated space is a grey, grey place. But
> that's what makes the "danger" real. The potential for harm. Yes, in
> this series people can get killed. And, happily, do! The Trek franchise
> has shown us how dull it is when we know that nobody (except nameless
> red shirts) will ever suffer injury or death. Or even wounded pride. If
> there is so much as a minor disagreement, they will always all "make
> nice" by episode end.
>
> Gan steps forward now and again, as he did in Shadow, to take a moral
> stand. And look how tiresome it made him.
>
> I love the self-doubt these characters deal with. At times I can
> empathize with all of them, for they personify basic human failings:
> Blake wondering if he's throwing his life away on a pipe dream. Avon
> knowing that nobody likes him cuz he's such a conceited egghead. Vila's
> laziness and tendencies toward imbibing controlled substances. Cally's
> loneliness. Jenna's jealousy and unrequited love. Gan's stupidity.
> Tarrant's immaturity. Soolin's self-absorbtion. Dayna? hmmmm no, I don't
> share her blood lust. Tho I wish I did, cuz it looks like such fun! :-)
>
> I resent and dislike the Trek characters cuz they are so dang perfect
> and self-confident. Priggish Picard most of all. Lt. Barkley is the only
> one who engenders any sympathy from the viewers. And he is such a sad
> case that he's nearly a cartoon.
>
> re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the
> Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research
> on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or
> added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision?
>
> > "Give me ambiguity or give me something else"
> hahahaha
> Pat P
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:12:42 -0600
> From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-Id: <199812081604.KAA25678@pemberton.magnolia.net>
>
> Pat P said:
>
> >re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the
> >Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research
> >on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or
> >added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision?
>
> I would like to ask that people put spoiler space or some sort of warning on
> posts like these. Not everyone has ready access to the new Voyager or DS9
> episodes and would like a chance to enjoy them without knowing the plot
> points in advance.
>
> Lorna B.
> "Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:25:37 -0000
> From: "Gregory Graham" <greg@geharris.co.uk>
> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: RE: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-ID: <000d01be22c7$63b95840$82ba46c2@barny.ascada.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> As far as I know this knowledge along with the information on rocketry from
> the V2(orig R4?) program is still available. Since the Apollo program was
> based on V2 technology, where would sci-fi hopes and dreams be without
> ex-nazi scientists? Mind you if you would like to know about unethical
> research, ask the Koreans about Japanese scientists. Apparently they make
> Nazi, and Federation, scientists look positively wet.
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pussnboots@geocities.com [mailto:pussnboots@geocities.com]
> Sent: 08 December 1998 03:11
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
>
> <snip>
>
> re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the
> Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research
> on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or
> added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision?
>
> > "Give me ambiguity or give me something else"
> hahahaha
> Pat P
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:32:50 -0500
> From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
> To: "INTERNET:space-city@world.std.com" <space-city@world.std.com>,
> "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: [B7L] Manchester Meet, Saturday December 12
> Message-ID: <199812081333_MC2-62EA-7FBB@compuserve.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Mainly to celebrate the arrival of Nicola Collie, well-known New Zealand
> Space Citizen and Servalan lookalike, on England's shores, a few of the B7
> fans in the Manchester area are planning to get together on the
> afternoon/evening of Saturday, December 12. If any lurkers or people we
> have unforgiveably forgotten to tell about it are interested, the plan is
> to gather at the Fab Cafe round about three o'clock, and eventually go for
> a curry in Rusholme.
>
> The Fab Cafe is (allegedly, I haven't been there yet) at 111 Portland
> Street (that's the road from Piccadilly Gardens to Oxford Street, if you're
> as vague as me about names). If you're coming from Piccadilly, it is said
> to be on the left-hand side, somewhere between Princess Street and Oxford
> Street. So if you're coming from Oxford Street, conversely, it's quite
> soon on the right. There should be a free-standing bill board thing on the
> pavement outside.
>
> Anyone wanting to check with me for details email
> 101637.2064@compuserve.com.
>
> Harriet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 13:29:28 PST
> From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
> To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-ID: <19981208212929.29590.qmail@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Alison said:
>
> >Anyway, unlike Penny I think this makes the B7 writers freer than the
> >ST writers, because while there aren't any 'goodies' in B7, there
> aren't
> >any (real) baddies in ST. In line with the Whig view there are just
> people
> >who haven't yet become enlightened by progress.
> >
> Hey, are you calling me a Trekkie? Grr! Lazeron-destructors at dawn!
> What I *meant* was that it's very difficult to have Good triumph over
> Evil on a weekly basis in a universe where there *is* no Good. Much
> like our own (in my humbly cynical opinion).
>
> I don't *need* Good to triumph over Evil in order to feel good drama
> has been perpetrated. But I know lots of people who do, and they watch
> Star Trek and the Money Keeps Rolling In.
>
> -- Penny "I am not Spock" Dreadful
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 13:33:58 PST
> From: "Edith Spencer" <sueno45@hotmail.com>
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-ID: <19981208213358.21033.qmail@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Pat had responded to Lord Rab:
> <snip>
> I resent and dislike the Trek characters cuz they are so dang perfect
> and self-confident. Priggish Picard most of all. Lt. Barkley is the only
> one who engenders any sympathy from the viewers. And he is such a sad
> case that he's nearly a cartoon.
>
> All Right then,
> I must admit, I do like Picard, priggish and all (smile) First, he is
> a Frenchman with a British accent (smirk)and because he's unashamedly
> bald. ( ha- hee). And of I identify with Barkely- nervous, antisocial,
> smart and cute. Aww...
> But I like the B7 series because of the not-so-clean characters and
> (what seems to me at least) the extrapolation of the British Empire. I
> find the politics and manuvering quite fascinating indeed. However, I
> don't think that the two series can be compared- too diametric. But I
> think there can justifiable criticism of both.
> Edith
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:26:30 EST
> From: LordRab@aol.com
> To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character
> Message-ID: <85c41ce6.366db5a6@aol.com>
> Content-type: multipart/mixed;
> boundary="part0_913159591_boundary"
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> --part0_913159591_boundary
> Content-ID: <0_913159591@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> In a message dated 98-12-08 11:15:51 EST, msdelta@magnolia.net writes:
>
> >
> >I would like to ask that people put spoiler space or some sort of warning on
> >posts like these. Not everyone has ready access to the new Voyager or DS9
> >episodes and would like a chance to enjoy them without knowing the plot
> >points in advance.
>
> Good Point Lorna...sorry, but I thought it was a rerun, I watch the Star Trek
> stuff so rarely that I just didn't consider it night be a new episode. I hope
> we didn't ruin the story for you more than the writers already have.
>
> >
> >Lorna B.
> >"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
> >
> Yum!
> Regards, Rab
>
> "I practice safe eating, I only eat condoments"
>
> --part0_913159591_boundary
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> air-zb03.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Tue, 08 Dec 1998 11:15:51
> -0500
> Received: from samantha.lysator.liu.se (samantha.lysator.liu.se
> [130.236.254.202])
> by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
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> Message-Id: <199812081604.KAA25678@pemberton.magnolia.net>
> From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:12:42 -0600
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>
> Pat P said:
>
> >re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the
> >Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research
> >on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or
> >added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision?
>
> I would like to ask that people put spoiler space or some sort of warning on
> posts like these. Not everyone has ready access to the new Voyager or DS9
> episodes and would like a chance to enjoy them without knowing the plot
> points in advance.
>
> Lorna B.
> "Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
>
>
>
>
> --part0_913159591_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 15:56:13 PST
> From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
> To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: [B7L] "Good and evil, there never is one without the other"
> Message-ID: <19981208235613.24905.qmail@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Penny "I am not Spock" Dreadful:
>
> >I don't *need* Good to triumph over Evil in order to feel good drama
> >has been perpetrated. But I know lots of people who do, and they
> >watch Star Trek and the Money Keeps Rolling In.
>
> I know B7 is supposed to be about shades of grey, but some characters
> are less grey than others. Servalan's character and motives were
> explored in some episodes, but one could make a case for saying she was
> just a greedy, evil gangster. And then the Federation itself was never
> portrayed as anything but evil.
>
> Conversely, there were some characters who could genuinely have been
> cast as "good". Gan is the obvious choice; another example might be, on
> account of their devotion to the "Rule of Life", the clonemasters.
>
> There were examples of good and evil in B7 -- of that I'm sure. It's
> just that they weren't plastered all over every plot. For me, the
> biggest difference between Star Trek and B7 is that I've never watched
> an episode of ST and come away from it wishing the events I'd just
> witnessed hadn't happened. [I may come away from an episode of ST
> wishing it had never been filmed in the first place, but that's just
> me...]
>
> Cheers,
> -- Rob
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:09:15 +1100
> From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
> To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Tiresome Ethics (was Re: [B7L] A New Character)
> Message-ID: <19981209080915.26407@welkin.apana.org.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Still haven't caught up on months of List stuff, gave up and started
> reading recent postings, and saw:
>
> On Mon, Dec 07, 1998 at 07:10:32PM -0800, Pat Patera wrote:
> > LordRab@aol.com wrote:
> > > All I could think of was a line from my favorite Blake's 7 character
> > > (surprise!!!! It's Kerr Avon):
> > > "I rarely comment on the Ethics of others"
>
> > Gan steps forward now and again, as he did in Shadow, to take a moral
> > stand. And look how tiresome it made him.
>
> Oi! No fair. Did not! (Kathryn jumps up and down)
> Blake takes a moral stand (the Federation is evil, I will destroy it)
> and he is not tiresome, yet when Gan takes a moral stand, he is?
> *If* it were true that Gan was tiresome, then it must be some other
> factor, rather than "taking a moral stand" that makes him so.
> A lack of anger, perhaps. Or a lack of charisma. But not the moral
> stand itself.
>
> Mind you, Gan isn't tiresome anyway. Unless you think Cally is
> tiresome too? She was rather fond of the moral stand herself.
>
> > I love the self-doubt these characters deal with. At times I can
> > empathize with all of them, for they personify basic human failings:
> > Blake wondering if he's throwing his life away on a pipe dream. Avon
> > knowing that nobody likes him cuz he's such a conceited egghead. Vila's
> > laziness and tendencies toward imbibing controlled substances. Cally's
> > loneliness. Jenna's jealousy and unrequited love. Gan's stupidity.
> > Tarrant's immaturity. Soolin's self-absorbtion. Dayna? hmmmm no, I don't
> > share her blood lust. Tho I wish I did, cuz it looks like such fun! :-)
>
> Gan isn't stupid. So there. Just because Avon's a genious doesn't
> make Gan stupid.
>
> (There, Judith, do I get my oak leaves now? <grin>)
>
> > I resent and dislike the Trek characters cuz they are so dang perfect
> > and self-confident. Priggish Picard most of all. Lt. Barkley is the only
> > one who engenders any sympathy from the viewers. And he is such a sad
> > case that he's nearly a cartoon.
>
> I have to toss in this perfect quote I found on the net when TNG was
> but a youngster --
> "I think that (one of) TNG's problems is that it considers lacking action,
> humor and character interplay to be interchangable with cerebral (just like
> it often considers civility and lack of conflict interchangable with
> friendship)."
> - Atsushi Kanamori on rec.arts.startrek, 7 July 1991
>
> --
> _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
> / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
> \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
> v |
> ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
> Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
>
> --------------------------------
> End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #303
> **************************************
>
Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #16
*************************************