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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 195
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
[B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #45 - Part 2 of 6
Re: [B7L] Feisty women
Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
[B7L] "Warlord" in frame capture library
Re: [B7L] Tapes
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers
Survivors
Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:42:43 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6
Message-ID: <19990516.105011.10006.6.Rilliara@juno.com>
On 17 Jun 1999 10:51:32 +0200 Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
writes:
>Yes. Rewrite of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" with Servalan
>instead of the witch and Blake instead of Aslan.
>
I love the idea of Servalan, but as for Blake as Aslan--
1) Blake only _thought_ he was right
2) Aslan not only had a plan to defeat the White Witch, he had a plan
that worked
and, most importantly,
3) When Aslan got killed, he knew what he was doing.
No, I see Blake more as Mr. Tumnus, playing a very important part early
on (when he thought the witch & co. were right but quickly learned
otherwise from a girl from outside) only to run into trouble on account
of a guy who thought he knew more about what was going on than everyone
else--a guy who even thought the White Witch really liked him. Mr.
Tumnus/Blake then vanished from the story and was presumed dead (or its
equivelant) until he showed up briefly at the end.
He even lived in an underground home just as Blake lived in an
underground city. Besides, can't you just see Blake with a big red
umbrella? and cooking skills?
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:48:51 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-ID: <376B3D53.B999E830@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> My own take on crossovers is I can take them when they're frivolous, but
> only then. I find serious crossovers a complete turn-off, since it violates
> the self-contained integrity of both the series involved.
This is very interesting. Could you please elaborate on when you
would view a crossover as 'frivolous' or 'serious'? Especially
serious; I guess as I have trouble taking the show too seriously
anyway, I don't quite follow you.
Curiouser and Curiouser,
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 00:11:28 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-ID: <376B429F.F11F8C37@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Una wrote:
> <Potential weird crossovers? How about a Narnia one... Bleurgh. Can you
> imagine..?>
For the truly frivolous, B7/The Wizard of Oz. Vila and the
Cowardly Lion frighten each other so badly that they both
run straight into the clutches of Servalan's cousin, the Wicked
Witch of the West; Dorothy wants to go home but Servalan
steals her slippers to go with the 'Gambit' dress; Cally apprentices
herself to Glinda the Good Witch; Blake discusses politics with
the Scarecrow; Gan teaches meditation to the winged monkeys;
and Avon gives the Tin Man a heart (as he's not using it). Jenna
finds a pirate costume for Toto and they sail off in the Liberator
and maraud happily ever after.
Cheers,
Mistral
(Sometimes known as Auntie M)
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:38:27 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-ID: <007c01beba26$bc08ced0$0c01a8c0@hedge>
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Mistral wrote:
> For the truly frivolous, B7/The Wizard of Oz. Vila and the
> Cowardly Lion frighten each other so badly that they both
> run straight into the clutches of Servalan's cousin, the Wicked
> Witch of the West; Dorothy wants to go home but Servalan
> steals her slippers to go with the 'Gambit' dress; Cally apprentices
> herself to Glinda the Good Witch; Blake discusses politics with
> the Scarecrow; Gan teaches meditation to the winged monkeys;
> and Avon gives the Tin Man a heart (as he's not using it). Jenna
> finds a pirate costume for Toto and they sail off in the Liberator
> and maraud happily ever after.
Oh my!
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:56:45 +0100
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: Julie Horner <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
Cc: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-ID: <CDWkBDAt4la3Ewk8@wriding.demon.co.uk>
In message <002901beb992$baa398c0$c44a95c1@orac>, Julie Horner
<jihorner@dial.pipex.com> writes
>
>If they had that assistant played by Bonny Langford then they would
>all be queuing up to push her out of the air lock - or jump out
>themselves.
>
Yes, just imagine trying to integrate a gorgeous, opinionated
computer expert into the Liberator crew. It'd never work :)
--
Russ Massey
Member of the Bonnie Langford/Mel Bush Internet Fan Club
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 03:22:25 PDT
From: Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-ID: <19990619102229.24025.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Neil wrote:
<My own take on crossovers is I can take them when they're frivolous, but
only then. I find serious crossovers a complete turn-off, since it violates
the self-contained integrity of both the series involved...I suspect there
might be two opposing approaches here. One that, like mine, sees a
subcreated universe as something contained within itself, and the other
approach that, er, doesn't. Not quite sure how I'd define it. I think it's
got something to do with how you perceive the characters. To me, Blake et
al can only really exist within the B7 universe, and nowhere else. To other
people, as many posts have made blindingly obvious, the characters are
readily transplantable to other times and places. In other words, the
characters are more important than the universe they inhabit. I'm the other
way around (and, I suspect, in a distinct minority as a consequence).
I'm not sure, Neil...because I'm with you on this, I don't have any interest
in serious cross-overs. I only enjoy ones that play with the inherent
ridiculousness (to me) of the idea. And I totally agree that the characters
can only exist for me in their own universe.
But for me the characters *are* way more important than the universe (which
my mind strictly labels 'background') because the characters are what I'm
far more interested in. It�s just that - I don't know - no matter how well
Blake, Avon and the rest are written, taking them out of their fictional
background (which makes them what they are) and putting them in a different
fictional background always makes *them* feel fake. Cross-overs always have
an uncomfortable Through-the-Looking-Glass feel to me (I am not explaining
this well).
But this *is* just me, of course...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:33:34 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #45 - Part 2 of 6
Message-ID: <wINs2LAuw5a3EwiE@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <376701C2.7BAA@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>, Arkaroo
<woollard@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> writes
>His eyes were dazzled by the gas-powered mammon-machines,
>and he stumbled about the bar, from the minuscule fruit-fly machines on
>the west wall to the enormous tropical fruit machines on the west.
I'd just like to say
<inane giggling>.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:09:07 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Feisty women
Message-Id: <199906191716.MAA17910@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Pat P said:
>humph! Servie would eat Seven for breakfast.
>and when it comes to fashion sense, leave Seven in the sewer.
I wasn't aware Borg were supposed to have a fashion sense.
>oh yuk yuk yuk the mass viewing public does not know the difference
>between ballsy and bazooms.
Well, this member of the viewing public happens to like Servalan *and* Seven
of Nine. Since Servalan had quite a hefty pair of "bazooms" herself, I
guess she's automatically disqualified from being "ballsy" along with Seven.
Maybe they can go off and form a club together...
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:28:54 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
Message-ID: <000001beba82$04a6aee0$354995c1@orac>
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charset="utf-7"
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-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Faulkner +ADw-N.Faulkner+AEA-tesco.net+AD4-
To: lysator +ADw-blakes7+AEA-lysator.liu.se+AD4-
Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: +AFs-B7L+AF0-Deathwatch
+AD4-Deathwatch implied that receiving transmissions from the sensornet was a
+AD4-voluntary and conscious process, so presumably you could walk around with a
+AD4-disc on your head and function quite normally unless perhaps something
+AD4-intense happened to the broadcaster. Maybe there were laws against wearing
+AD4-them whilst driving or operating machinery.
+AD4-
You had to keep your eyes shut for them to work so maybe the
walking around wouldn't be such a good idea let alone the
machinery.
Julie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:06:57 +0100
From: "David A McIntee" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers
Message-Id: <199906191946.UAA09449@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com>
> as for companions,
> wasn't there one a long time ago, I think her name was
> Victoria, who *killed* the Monster of the Week by the sheer
> power of her screaming (or did I have a very strange dream
> many many years ago?).
No dream- it was the seaweed creature in her last story, Fury From The Deep.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:13:50 +0100
From: "David A McIntee" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-Id: <199906191946.UAA09452@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
>
> My own take on crossovers is I can take them when they're frivolous, but
> only then.
Hm. It varies for me - but I've recently developed this overwhelming desire
to rewrite the scripts for the first couple of Who stories, replacing Ian
and Barbara with... Well, two totally unexpected characters, who I won't
name in case it inspired someone else to do it! (Not B7 characters, before
you ask)
> I gather Terry Nation had a plan at some stage to put the Daleks into a
B7
> episode.
Depends who you want to believe - David Maloney says it's true; Chris
Boucher says it isn't. My guess would be that Nation and Maloney talked
about it over lunch one day, but that nothing ever came of it, on account
of Nation moving to the US.
FWIW, it was to be the last episode of season 2, and certainly Star One was
a slightly belated replacement when Nation changed his mind about writing
the season cliffhanger.
Perversely, the plot of Star One itself is 1) a direct sequel to the ST
episode By Any Other Name (and I just can't think of them not being part of
the same arc), and 2) was a story Boucher had had rejected by Graham
Williams for Dr Who the previous year.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:03:19 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: [B7L] "Warlord" in frame capture library
Message-Id: <4.1.19990619135149.012ad830@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"Warlord" has been added to my Video Frame Capture Library. See
<http://lcw.simplenet.com/b7lib.html>.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
From Eroica With Love: http://lcw.simplenet.com/Eroica/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:41:56 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tapes
Message-ID: <199906191842_MC2-7A0B-DDE4@compuserve.com>
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charset=ISO-8859-1
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Una wrote:
>WH Smith rang me today to say that my next two tapes had
>arrived - these are Deathwatch/Moloch and Terminal/Rescue
Thanks for reminding me - I've now been into town to pick up copies. Fab
Films seem to have got wind of our Pick Your Own Photo competition (the
silly version). I'd better have another look at Terminal... that picture
is an out-take, isn't it? I know the Links were silly, but this is
ridiculous! I got quite hysterical in the shop when I saw it, but the
assistants didn't seem to notice.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jun 1999 01:46:21 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-ID: <usogibu52q.fsf@sara.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
"David A McIntee" <master@sol.co.uk> writes:
> I've recently developed this overwhelming desire to rewrite the
> scripts for the first couple of Who stories, replacing Ian and
> Barbara with... Well, two totally unexpected characters, who I won't
> name in case it inspired someone else to do it! (Not B7 characters,
> before you ask)
Xena and Gabrielle?
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"Such a pretty day for a bloodbath." -- Callisto, "Xena: Warrior Princess"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:52:23 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
Message-ID: <19990620085223.A487@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 02:22:23AM +0100, Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Deathwatch implied that receiving transmissions from the sensornet was a
> voluntary and conscious process, so presumably you could walk around with a
> disc on your head and function quite normally unless perhaps something
> intense happened to the broadcaster. Maybe there were laws against wearing
> them whilst driving or operating machinery.
Not much need, really, since they don't activate until you close your
eyes. I doubt many people would be driving or operating machinery
with their eyes closed.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:35:51 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers
Message-ID: <19990620103551.B487@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 02:22:36AM +0100, Neil Faulkner wrote:
> My own take on crossovers is I can take them when they're frivolous, but
> only then. I find serious crossovers a complete turn-off, since it violates
> the self-contained integrity of both the series involved. (Of course, I'm
> speaking as an Acc4 here, so background integrity rules, OK. And yes, I am
> one of those people who moan when old war movies paint black crosses on
> clapped out British cruiser tanks and pretend they're panzers.)
I'm kinda the opposite to that, really. The frivolous ones are more
like parodies, and while they might be trivvially amusing once,
parodies are often so heavy-handed that they're just irritating.
> I suspect there might be two opposing approaches here. One that, like mine,
> sees a subcreated universe as something contained within itself, and the
> other approach that, er, doesn't. Not quite sure how I'd define it. I
> think it's got something to do with how you perceive the characters. To me,
> Blake et al can only really exist within the B7 universe, and nowhere else.
> To other people, as many posts have made blindingly obvious, the characters
> are readily transplantable to other times and places. In other words, the
> characters are more important than the universe they inhabit. I'm the other
> way around (and, I suspect, in a distinct minority as a consequence).
Well, I think you could actually have three categories here, two of
which you're lumping together. One is parodies. The second is
serious crossovers. And the third is character insertion - that is,
as you say, the characters are "readily transplantable to other times
and places".
Of the three, I like type two, and only rarely enjoy crossovers of the
other kind. Plonking the Blake's 7 cast into Narnia or The Wizard of
Oz doesn't appeal to me at all, for the very reasons you stated above.
The thing is, with a type-2 crossover, you aren't transplanting the
characters away from their universe at all. You find the things in
common between the two universes which allow you to say "this is the
same universe". Many universes are incompatible, but compatible
enough that they might belong to the same multiverse, if one or
another of them actually allows for the concept of a multiverse (such
as Star Trek or Doctor Who). But some universes are completely
incompatible, and attempting to cross them over is a violation of
their integrity. Unfortunately enough people do so anyway that I can
readily understand why so many people don't like crossovers. Even a
multiversal crossover is weaker than one in which you can make the
universes unite.
To take some examples...
- Doctor Who is readily crossable because he can travel anywhere in
time and space, and occassionally jumps universes.
- Star Trek and Blake's 7 are incompatible (different histories) but
the multiversal mechanism can be used because Trek has the concept
of a multiverse.
- Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 are likewise incompatible, but though
neither one has the concept of a multiverse, they don't exclude that
possibility either.
- Blake's 7 and LEXX, though, I think are completely incompatible,
unless one declares that either (a) The Federation is in the Dark
Zone, or (b) the LEXX concept of there being only two universes is
wrong or (c) Blake's 7 is in the far far far past, so far that
nobody can remember it, not even the Time Prophets.
- Blake's 7 and Highlander aren't incompatible if you take the HL TV
universe slant and forget about the Gathering (which is what they did
in the later seasons) and simply say that the Immortals are still
going on in "present day" Blake's 7, just as hidden as they were in
the time of the HL series.
- Likewise for Babylon 5 and Highlander, or almost any series set in
the future or past.
- However "Forever Knight" and "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" aren't
compatible unless you start positing different kinds of vampires.
- You could, however, cross over Buffy and Blake's 7 if you use time
travel, and use the Buffyverse explanation that most people explain
away irrational wierdness as a defence mechanism.
Other incompatibilites arise not because of incompatible facts (like
histories or kinds of vampires) but because of incompatible tone.
Crossing over The Brady Bunch with almost anything serious could only
be done as a parody.
A really good crossover, however, does more than just find two
universes that aren't incompatible. It finds things in both universes
which reinforce the concept that these are, in fact, the same
universe. Here are a few for Blake's 7/Highlander:
- Sarkoff's collection of 20th century artefacts could mean that he is
either a Watcher or an Immortal, but more probably a Watcher
- The fact that Muller was beheaded could mean that he was an immortal
(and wasn't killed by his robot after all, but by Someone Else)
- The fact that Servalan survived after Terminal could mean that she's
immortal.
Other things can be latched onto that don't actually reinforce the
common-universe concept, but bind the characters or actions or can be
used as grist for the plot. For example, the Clone Masters might have
been a good place for an immortal to hide out with, or might have been
investigated by immortals in the hope that they might clone a child.
With Babylon 5/Highlander, Garibaldi and Richie Ryan have a common
interest in motorcycles, and both Immortals and Centauri have
traditions of duelling with swords.
And of course with Buffy/Blake's 7, you've got the mutoids.
Finding and exploiting these commonalities is half the fun.
And the other half of the fun is to make the familiar strange; to see
your well-known characters through other characters eyes - *that's*
what I like about good crossovers. Unfortunately, many many people
who write crossovers don't have the inclination to do that: to treat
Our Heros (from whichever universe) as if they were guest-stars from
the other characters' point-of-view. What they do instead is give a
potted history of that/those character(s), and bore the audience to
tears.
No wonder so many people don't like crossovers. There's so few good
ones.
Kathryn "crossover" Andersen
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:45:52 -0700
From: "LaughingRain" <LaughingRain@prodigy.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Survivors
Message-ID: <019801bebac7$057d2b60$LocalHost@behemoth>
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I just received word from Amazon.com that "Survivors" by Terry Nation is =
on its way to my home. I put in a request over two years ago. It was =
quite a suprise when I got the email. And it was only $13.99 US.
Peace,
Penny
Anthology@onelist.com
orphankittens@onelist.com
Horseheads1979@onelist.com
youngchildrensbooks@onelist.com
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type><TITLE>Mabel</TITLE><BASE=20
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<DIV>I just received word from Amazon.com that "Survivors" by =
Terry=20
Nation is on its way to my home. I put in a request over two years =
ago. It was quite a suprise when I got the email. And it was only =
$13.99=20
US.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Peace,<BR>Penny<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Anthology@onelist.com">Anthology@onelist.com</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:orphankittens@onelist.com">orphankittens@onelist.com</A><B=
R><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Horseheads1979@onelist.com">Horseheads1979@onelist.com</A>=
<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:youngchildrensbooks@onelist.com">youngchildrensbooks@oneli=
st.com</A></DIV>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:54:45 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
Message-ID: <007a01bebac8$6b227b40$ee468cd4@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Julie Horner wrote, re sensornet discs:
>You had to keep your eyes shut for them to work so maybe the
>walking around wouldn't be such a good idea let alone the
>machinery.
Not necessarily. We saw people shutting their eyes to fully experience the
sensory input, but that doesn't preclude it filtering through as a kind of
sensory muzak. Not that it really matters unless you're writing a story
that revolves around sensornet input.
More pertinently perhaps, was such equipment available within the
Federation? And if so, was it there for everyone, or restricted? It's the
closest thing in the series to the sim/stim of William Gibson's Neuromancer
and associated fiction (where there is a flourishing market in legal and
illegal stims, with many professional, educational and leisure applications.
The sensornet in Deathwatch is pretty close to the 'rider' chip that figures
so prominently in Neuromancer, and not so far away from the situation in The
Winter Market where a disabled woman sells her - suitably edited and
polished - dreams to an enthusiastic audience). Once again the series
throws up a one-off example of a technology that could drastically alter the
entire fabric of society if it was shown to be widely extant.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 01:04:14 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Potential crossovers (was Flat Robin #45 - Part 1 of 6)
Message-ID: <007801bebac8$697edd60$ee468cd4@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mistral wrote:
+AD4-Neil Faulkner wrote:
+AD4-
+AD4APg- My own take on crossovers is I can take them when they're frivolous, but
+AD4APg- only then. I find serious crossovers a complete turn-off, since it
violates
+AD4APg- the self-contained integrity of both the series involved.
+AD4-
+AD4-This is very interesting. Could you please elaborate on when you
+AD4-would view a crossover as 'frivolous' or 'serious'? Especially
+AD4-serious+ADs- I guess as I have trouble taking the show too seriously
+AD4-anyway, I don't quite follow you.
By 'frivolous' I basically mean angling for laughs, without trying to
justify the sudden coexistence of two (mutually exclusive) universes. One
very good example that had me in stitches was a Wendy Ingle story in a
Horizon zine, 'Dimples and Hairpiece', that put Dempsey and Makepeace aboard
the Liberator for no readily explicable reason. Such stories take neither
of their sources seriously. (It's hardly for me to comment on the B7/Beavis
and Butthead one in AltaZine, since I was responsible for that.) A serious
crossover doesn't appeal to me in any way whatsoever, though that doesn't
mean they are automatically 'bad' - I gather Sharon Eckman penned a highly
regarded B7/DS9 novel some years ago.
Sally wrote:
+ADw-But for me the characters +ACo-are+ACo- way more important than the universe (which
my mind strictly labels 'background') because the characters are what I'm
far more interested in. It+IBk-s just that - I don't know - no matter how well
Blake, Avon and the rest are written, taking them out of their fictional
background (which makes them what they are) and putting them in a different
fictional background always makes +ACo-them+ACo- feel fake. Cross-overs always have
an uncomfortable Through-the-Looking-Glass feel to me (I am not explaining
this well).+AD4-
If you think of the crew as figures in the landscape of the series universe,
do you just see the characters, or the landscape as well? Dropping them
into another universe is a bit like dumping Nazi stormtroopers in ancient
Rome - they don't belong. If you rate the landscape as highly as the
figures (especially if you believe as I do that character is shaped at least
as much by socio-cultural factors as by anything innate in the individual)
then the background is integral to the characters and not to be lightly
tinkered with.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:22:05 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]Deathwatch
Message-ID: <19990516.112206.9958.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:54:45 +0100 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
writes:
>More pertinently perhaps, was such equipment available within the
>Federation? And if so, was it there for everyone, or restricted?
>The sensornet in Deathwatch is pretty close to the 'rider' chip that
>figures
>so prominently in Neuromancer, and not so far away from the situation
>in The
>Winter Market where a disabled woman sells her - suitably edited and
>polished - dreams to an enthusiastic audience). Once again the series
>throws up a one-off example of a technology that could drastically
>alter the
>entire fabric of society if it was shown to be widely extant.
So true. If nothing else, was there a bustling business in recorded,
past duels? There didn't seem to be any reason there shouldn't be, but
entertainment expert Vila didn't know about any or he wouldn't have been
surprised by the nature of the duel.
It might be that these two worlds have kept their technology to
themselves (unlikely, but possible). It may be there are hidden
drawbacks (the mental implants may have serious side effects on the
duelers, making more than a couple duels every ten years a very bad
idea). Or maybe they implant anyone who might come close to the
machinery (uhm, boss, the guy we just hired is thinking about how much
money he'll make when he sells the plans. What painful things would you
like done to him to discourage this sort of thing in the future?).
Ellynne
P.S. Another thing Blake has in common with Mr. Tumnus: Curly hair.
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #195
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