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Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #212
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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 212
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Servalan
[B7L] RE : B7 on ebay
[B7L] video #21
[B7L] Holland
[B7L] The estimable Jarriere
[B7L] Cally
[B7L] Re: Servalan
Re: [B7L] Servalan
Re: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
Re: [B7L] Servalan
Re: [B7L] Servalan
Re: [B7L] RE : B7 on ebay
Re: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
[B7L] web pages moving
Re: [B7L] Servalan
[B7L] Jenna and Tarrant (Was Servalan)
[B7L] Re: Voice from the Past (was Servalan)
[B7L] The estimable Jarriere
[B7L] Jenna (was Servalan)
Tarrant and his crewmates (was Re: [B7L] Servalan)
Re: [B7L] Re: Servalan
Re: [B7L] Cally (was Servalan)
Re: [B7L] Cally (was Servalan)
Re: [B7L] Re: Soolin (was Servalan)
Re: [B7L] Ben Steed the misogynist (was: Servalan)
Re: [B7L] Re: Soolin (was Servalan)
Re: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
Re: [B7L] Servalan
Re: [B7L] Servalan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 00:03:28 +0200
From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan
Message-Id: <199907082303.AAA20017@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> [Cally] also displays a
> certain stupidity in Seek-Locate-Destroy (turning her head and letting
> someone overpower her),
Well, yes. As far as keeping control over your hostages goes, lining
them up and waiting for them to rush you isn't the best method. In fairness,
though, the federation guard does exactly the same thing.
steve
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 05:11:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Carol & Gordon Burgess <storm@catchnet.com.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] RE : B7 on ebay
Message-ID: <377B1A3600001F51@base.catchnet.com.au> (added by base.catchnet.com.au)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I had a look at a couple of the listings for B7 items ( 19 in total ) and
noticed the following two books
MINT! Blakes 7 Interview Book Item #126274468
MINT! Blakes 7 Compendium Book Item #126274400
both are B7 and Dr Who books BTW..
Anyway what I was wondering was if anyone had read the full description
section..
The dealer <billgloria> included this in the section:
" Thank you! Send $1.00 to obtain a copy of our 192 page illustrated catalog of
Sci-Fi TV and movie related products to: Star Tech, PO Box 456EB, Dunlap,
TN 37327-0456. See our website at http://www.startechenterprises.com"
Was there not some controversy between this company and many members of the
B7 fandom community? Something to do with bootlegging, I think?
Please correct me if I am wrong I just have a vague memory of someone
warning me against them?
Just wanted to know before I go and bid on anything of theirs..
Also can anyone tell me about these books? He presently wants US $15.00
each for them, but as yet there are no bids pending..
thanks
Carol 'Hondo'
At 08:18 AM 7/8/99 EDT, you wrote:
>Oddly enough, you can often judge the popularity of something by the numer of
>items relating to it, being offered on eBay. There are about 16 different
>auctions for B7-related material currently going on. Here's a link to check
>them out, in case there's anything of interest you'd like to view.
>Leah
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:24:19 +0100
From: Robinson Paula <Paula.Robinson@RCN.ORG.UK>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] video #21
Message-ID: <E9263E031959D211B5A80008C71E93C301BF7D3B@rcn-london5>
Content-Type: text/plain
Julie said:
>Has anyone come across Video No 21 yet? Only the
>release dates on Horizon say 5th July but our nearest
>HMV, which is usually pretty prompt, has not got them
>in yet.
Hi - I asked Diane about this and she says the release date has been put
back to 5th August. 22 and 23 still on course for 5th September as far as
she knows, but things can change, obviously.
She also said that anyone ordering from Horizon by 28th July should get
their Tape 21 on the release date - see the Horizon merchandise pages on the
website www.horizon.org.uk under the sub heading 'videos' or email her at
diane@horizon.org.uk if you have any queries.
Paula
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:41:32 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Holland
Message-ID: <005d01beca00$0cf22880$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Can anyone give me the new URL for the Barbara Paul site? I forgot to update
my address book, and now I've got hold of some of the books I'd like to take
a look through it again.
Una
http://www.q-research.connectfree.co.uk/personal/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 05:10:20 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
Message-ID: <19990709121034.58973.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Mistral asked:
<is there a Jarriere fan out there who has some thoughts
they'd like to share about Jarriere himself and his
relationship with the Supreme Commander?>
Jarriere, my darling Jarriere!!! Harriet, this is *our* area, isn't it?
Though I may have a problem answering this, because my
interest in Servalan is tepid at best, but I have to admit that
her scenes with Jarriere are some of my favourites. For the
unworthy reason that she seems so much more *human*
trying not to lose her temper and commit serious assault on
this impossible (if adorable) little man than she does as the
(to me) mildly dull Supreme Commander, or in her
irritating relationship with the 3rd/4th season crew (I yield to
no one in my love for the Bad-Tempered One, but I'm bored by Avon & Servalan
stuff.)
I adore Jarriere for much the same reason I like Rashel (oh,
and besides the fact that he's sweet and does try *so* hard,
poor baby, to follow Servalan's twisted plotting. And fails
so gloriously). These are ordinary people, in a cast full of
cut-glass brilliance. The entire regular cast have to be called
remarkable people - even Vila is superb at lock-picking,
theiving and one-liners, even Gan is extraordinary in his
physical and moral strength. As for the rest of them - well,
one has to say that both Blake and Avon had amazing luck
in picking up these brilliant (if decidedly difficult) crew
members. And they're a rather spectacular pair themselves
(IMHO). People like - well, me - would hardly survive two
days on the Liberator (if I was *lucky*. And Avon was
somewhere else.) As for surviving ten minutes in Servalan's
poisonous presence...
But Jarriere - who is out of his depth in a baby's bath, let
alone this deadly universe - manages to drive the Supreme
Commander up the wall with precision (if endearingly
guileless) ease, and gets away with it. The first time I
watched the episode, I was waiting for her to turn around
and slug him, at the very least. Certainly, there's something
odd about the way she keeps patiently explaining everything
to him, instead of just snarling orders for what he is needed
to do and then telling him to *just do it*. (Let no one cry
'much-needed exposition'!!!)
I cannot see the woman doing this for anyone else I can think
of...she is not one to suffer fools gladly, or at all. But she
does suffer Jarriere (if not at all gladly. I do enjoy the gritted
teeth aspect of her dialogue).
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:29:38 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Cally
Message-ID: <19990517.222940.10262.1.Rilliara@juno.com>
I know I'm being a little gross, but has anyone ever done a story about
Cally dealing with being a sole survivor from an entire planet not once,
but twice? And both died of plague (talk about combat flashbacks).
I just got to thinking of all she went through when the Federation killed
those rebels with their plague. Was she with a small group, not
realizing till after they were dead and she tried to contact others that
the whole planet had been killed? Was she with a large group, working
herself ragged to care for the huge number of sick and dying as all the
other caregivers contracted the disease? What about burials afterward?
Was she able to do anything for the dead or did she have to deal with the
guilt of leaving them to the elements?
Of course, this would be a much more interesting question if the writers
had ever dealt with it. Unless some of what the alien in Shadow did to
her had to do with an overwhelming fear of being alone (and the moondiscs
helped her cope with it?).
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:15:30 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Servalan
Message-ID: <19990517.222101.10262.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:19:57 EDT AdamWho@aol.com writes:
>
>I hate Voice from the Past, Travis with that hideous French accent,
He was doing an accent? And all this time I thought he was just trying
to sound like someone who'd lost his mouth and was speaking through a
bandage. It wasn't very convincing that way, either.
By the way, was I the only one waiting for someone to wonder why he wore
his eyeball outside the bandages? You'd think one of them would have
been suspicious at that point.
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:57:59 -0700
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan
Message-ID: <378510D7.F4471593@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Una McCormack wrote:
re:
> Adam wrote:
> > I think Servalan, in a formal and platform shoes, could probably kill an
> > entire army.
<chortle! snort!>
>
> Hmm. So the best way for Blake to have conquered the Federation was to
> somehow have coaxed Servie into flared jeans, white stilettos ...
no, The best way would have been for Blake to gussie up in formal tux
and wing tips.
With a pink carnation in his lapel, of course. -- Pat
________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:31:35 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
Message-ID: <378623E6.383C1910@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally Manton wrote:
> Though I may have a problem answering this, because my
> interest in Servalan is tepid at best, but I have to admit that
> her scenes with Jarriere are some of my favourites.
Shouldn't be a problem; I'm mainly interested in what's
going on in *his* head, and why she puts up with him.
What you've said has been quite helpful so far.
> (I yield to
> no one in my love for the Bad-Tempered One, but I'm bored by Avon & Servalan
> stuff.)
(aside) Well, here's something we don't have to argue
about ;) Although for me, it veers perilously close to
peevedom occasionally.
> People like - well, me - would hardly survive two
> days on the Liberator (if I was *lucky*. And Avon was
> somewhere else.)
Nah. Anybody on this list would be treated like royalty
as soon as they pointed out how to use Orac effectively.
(Well, assuming they did it gently enough to avoid making
Avon feel like an idiot.)
> As for surviving ten minutes in Servalan's
> poisonous presence...
Borrow Avon's gun and shoot the b****.
> But Jarriere - who is out of his depth in a baby's bath, let
> alone this deadly universe - manages to drive the Supreme
> Commander up the wall with precision (if endearingly
> guileless) ease, and gets away with it.
Yes! Yes! But what I'm trying to figure out is WHY???
Reasons I've considered:
1) He's a relative of hers.
2) He's a relative of somebody she needs to keep happy.
3) He's some sort of savant (in what field, I can't imagine.)
4) He has, um, er, how shall I say, hidden talents? (Although
I find this unlikely; why would she have put up with him
long enough to find out?)
And is he as slow-witted as he seems? Or are we to
think of him as normal so that she looks brilliant? Or
perhaps he's feigning the airhead bit? But why?
Thoughts?
???
Mistral
--
"We all have something to hide, and we all have something to tell;
we all have a secret name; we all have a secret question--
one question that unlocks our heart."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:11:49 -0700
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan
Message-ID: <37861135.F6684AB3@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
S Riaz wrote:
>
> I'm amazed so many fans hated Servalan!
well I adore "my Steel Queen"
>Surely Servalan's image was EVERYWHERE.
yes, very very silly, for the Empress of the Galaxy to go into disguise
in a black gown.
> How she thought nobody would recognise her was absurd.
But nobody did! :-D
Now that was a plot hole you could fly a starship through!
> Actually, I read a similar story about Cally. Jan Chappell was supposed to wear
> coloured contact lenses - to look more 'alien', but found them too uncomfortable.
They should have painted her green. Oh, that didn't even work on Mr.
Spock, despite all those references to "green blooded alien," he was
just as pink as we.
> I guess her alien disguise was to look spaced out sometimes!
<chortle snort!>
And to be skinnier than humanly possible!
> As for Blake actually winning the rebellion ...
> They were doomed to failure - success was impossible.
Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.
> I agree that Jenna had little to return to the Liberator for. ...
> Seeing her and Tarrant together would
> have been fun though - she would have put him in his place!
Not if the script writers had anything to say about it. :-(
Pessimistic Pat P
http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 02:00:42 EDT
From: AdamWho@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan
Message-ID: <714f9963.24b6ea0a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 99-07-08 18:11:56 EDT, t.riaz@virgin.net writes:
<< Actually, I read a similar story about Cally. Jan Chappell was supposed
to wear
coloured contact lenses - to look more 'alien', but found them too
uncomfortable.
I guess her alien disguise was to look spaced out sometimes! >>
I'm glad she took a stand and refused to wear them. Cally's appearance
resembled a human, but she was never the same as a human on the inside, which
Jan Chappell always did a very good job of showing. She didn't need the help
of coloured contact lenses.
<<Seeing her and Tarrant together would
have been fun though - she would have put him in his place!>>
I'd love to see her threatening to throw him off the Liberator if he didn't
do something when she asked him to. He probably wouldn't like taking what he
dished out to Vila.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:15:14 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RE : B7 on ebay
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0709211514-a49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Fri 09 Jul, Carol & Gordon Burgess wrote:
> I had a look at a couple of the listings for B7 items ( 19 in total ) and
> noticed the following two books
> MINT! Blakes 7 Interview Book Item #126274468
> MINT! Blakes 7 Compendium Book Item #126274400
> both are B7 and Dr Who books BTW..
>
> Anyway what I was wondering was if anyone had read the full description
> section..
> The dealer <billgloria> included this in the section:
>
> " Thank you! Send $1.00 to obtain a copy of our 192 page illustrated catalog of
> Sci-Fi TV and movie related products to: Star Tech, PO Box 456EB, Dunlap,
> TN 37327-0456. See our website at http://www.startechenterprises.com"
>
> Was there not some controversy between this company and many members of the
> B7 fandom community? Something to do with bootlegging, I think?
> Please correct me if I am wrong I just have a vague memory of someone
> warning me against them?
That sounds like the guy who pirated Horizon's zines. The name matches.
> Just wanted to know before I go and bid on anything of theirs..
> Also can anyone tell me about these books?
I wonder if that's the Horizon interview book. Needless to say, that'll be
cheaper bought from Horizon.
> He presently wants US $15.00 each for them, but as yet there are no bids
> pending..
'compendium' could mean almost anything.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:11:19 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0709211119-e74Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Fri 09 Jul, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>
> > But Jarriere - who is out of his depth in a baby's bath, let
> > alone this deadly universe - manages to drive the Supreme
> > Commander up the wall with precision (if endearingly
> > guileless) ease, and gets away with it.
>
> Yes! Yes! But what I'm trying to figure out is WHY???
Because he fulfills the same role as the medieval fool.
Sometimes it is useful to have someone whose status is so low that they can say
the unsayable and not worry about losing face.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:00:58 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: JMDG James Morrison Discussion Group List <jmdg@onelist.com>,
"Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] web pages moving
Message-ID: <19990710080058.C12049@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Anyone who was pointing to my Neutral Zone report or any of my other
convention reports, I have removed all my stuff from GeoCities due to
the intellectual property theft clause in the new Yahoo contract.
(Okay, I exaggerate, but "perpetual" and "irrevocable" is something up
with which I will not put.) Yeah, I had to sign the contract in order
to get access to my stuff in order to remove it, but unless they are
trawling through last weeks backup tapes in order to steal things,
they're sunk, because what's on my Yahoo-GeoCities page *now* isn't
worth stealing.
Everything has been moved over to Connexus (see URL in .sig below)
which was always my primary home page anyway. The only exception is
the Refractions #1 and #2 PDF files, which have been removed
altogether, because there isn't enough room on connexus for them.
The convention reports are at
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/events
The Babylon 5 page is at
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/b5
If there are any broken links as a result of the move, let me know.
I think I covered everything, but I might have missed something.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:13:45 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan
Message-ID: <adb75ba1.24b7dc29@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Adam wrote:
> I'd love to see her threatening to throw him off the Liberator if he didn't
> do something when she asked him to. He probably wouldn't like taking what
he
>
> dished out to Vila.
Since Jenna wouldn't ask someone to do anything that didn't need done and
since Tarrant never objected to doing his share of work, the above scenario
is about as likely as Servalan resigning from the Presidency so that she
could enter a nunnery.
What's far more likely is that Jenna and Tarrant would get along quite well.
They are both industrious, bright, responsible, and a nice blend of idealism
and pragmaticism. I think Liberator would have been a more efficiently run
ship with the two of them to form an alliance of exceptionally talented
pilots.
Fans may not like Tarrant, but transferring that dislike to B7 characters is
quite a stretch of the imagination. There was never any indication that
Tarrant's shipmates share fans' loathing. In fact, Blake barely knew him but
was ready to recruit him for his cause. There is no reason to presume Jenna
wouldn't like Tarrant. She got along with shipmates who had at least as many
flaws as Tarrant does.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:41:30 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Jenna and Tarrant (Was Servalan)
Message-ID: <19990710014136.38328.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Adam wrote: <I'd love to see (Jenna) threatening to throw him off the
Liberator if he didn't do something when she asked him to.>
Errr....Jenna and which army? Just who would *back* her in this? I don't
even think Blake would, since I'm inclined to think that he'd expect them to
work it out between themselves if they had problems (he's got his hands full
managing Avon and Vila, thank you).
Carol Mc wrote:
<What's far more likely is that Jenna and Tarrant would get along quite
well.>
I tend to think they'd develop - over time - a cool but efficient working
relationship. With glitches - I *do* think there'd be a sizable element of
possessiveness there on both sides (but nothing compared to what would have
happened if another *computer expert* had turned up on the Liberator.
Ouch!!!)
They're both also headstrong and stubborn, and used to very different styles
of working. (My own feeling is, had Tarrant been on Blake's ship, I can see
*them* getting along quite well for the most part, but Tarrant would have
had some problems with the free-for-all style of leadership Blake was so
good at. Throw in Avon and the three-Alpha explosions would have been
enormous fun to watch.)
I don't think they'd *like* each other, but I think the reserve would be as
much if not more on Toothy's side than Jenna's. Yes, *his* superiority
complex might annoy her (he could be *very* irritating, and Jenna's
tolerance level isn't that high), but if she could put up with Avon's, she
could put up with anyone's.
Quite simply, I don't think her crewmates for the most part particularly
like or dislike Jenna, except for Blake and possibly - *possibly* - Gan
(both of whom *give* friendship readily, though not stupidly). Nor IMO does
she like or dislike Cally, Vila or Avon. Whether it's a part of her cool,
pragmatic nature or the effect of her harsh lifestyle, she's actually more
of a loner than Avon, and just doesn't have a gift for giving or inspiring
real affection. The others care about her welfare as a member of their crew
(as I'd care about someone I worked closely with), but not on a personal
basis. I see Tarrant as feeling the same way.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:42:45 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Voice from the Past (was Servalan)
Message-ID: <19990710014249.76896.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ellyne writes:
<By the way, was I the only one waiting for someone to wonder why he wore
his eyeball outside the bandages? You'd think one of them would have been
suspicious at that point.>
No, they all thought - "it has to be real, no one would be stupid enough to
try a disguise *that* fake-looking..."
I like bits - quite a lot of bits - of the episode (it's a curate's egg, I'm
afraid). As Harriet said, it does say something about how unrealistic the
chance of non-violent revolution is, which ties straight into Star One (it
also indicates that Blake was *not* so single-minded as to reject the hope
of doing it peacefully. Yes, he was 'under the influence', but I think there
was a genuine hope there. And it was totally smashed, poor darling.) It's
one of the few episodes where Cally gets to be coolly intelligent and
logical (working out what's going on with Avon) and quite tough (prepared to
use force if necessary). And <g> it's great stuff for those of us who like
Avon in black silk shirts.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:44:46 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
Message-ID: <19990710014453.90030.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Mistral wrote:
<Anybody on this list would be treated like royalty as soon as they pointed
out how to use Orac effectively. (Well, assuming they did it gently enough
to avoid making Avon feel like an idiot.)>
There is *no* way to put that tactfully enough <g>. And I actually doubt
whether the self-aggrandising box of tricks is as wonderful as we all
think...
<But Jarriere - who is out of his depth in a baby's bath, let alone this
deadly universe - manages to drive the Supreme Commander up the wall with
precision (if endearingly guileless) ease, and gets away with it.>
<Yes! Yes! But what I'm trying to figure out is WHY??? Reasons I've
considered:
1) He's a relative of hers.
2) He's a relative of somebody she needs to keep happy.
3) He's some sort of savant (in what field, I can't imagine.)
4) He has, um, er, how shall I say, hidden talents? (Although I find this
unlikely; why would she have put up with him long enough to find out?)>
I agree that there has to be *something* there (I tend to like number 2
myself, because I don't care for the idea of Servie and Jarriere sharing
blood-lines, and in any case, I can't see her being nice to her nearest and
dearest unless there was something in it for her.) Presumably he has some
cybernetics skills, as she gets him to disable Tarrant's fake arm. But there
would be plenty of other cyber-surgeons in Space Command who she'd find far
less strangleable.
Anyone remember the theory of Avon's Aged and Rather Scary Aunts, though?
Maybe Servalan has some formidable and terrifying relatives of her own who
*make* her be nice to Jarriere...
Or he's the President's nephew. Which would go a long way towards explaining
her enthusiasm for overthrowing the President.
<And is he as slow-witted as he seems?>
Yup <veg>. Actually no, I tend to see it more as he's a specialist in some
excruciatingly narrow (and spectacularly useless) field, and an innocent to
boot, and totally befuddled by politics of any sort, let alone the
labyrinthine sort favoured by the Supreme Commander.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:45:49 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Jenna (was Servalan)
Message-ID: <19990710014553.55132.qmail@hotmail.com>
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After I wrote wrote:
<([Avon] hadn't thought about the 'crew' side of it at all.)>
Steve Kilbane added:
<Well, he had. In Horizon, he established that technically, he didn't need
one. Maybe he just didn't expect it to be a package deal...>
No maybe about it, I'd say. If he *had* thought about the three others, he
would hardly have expected any of them to stay with him rather than Blake.
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:21:21 EDT
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Tarrant and his crewmates (was Re: [B7L] Servalan)
Message-ID: <1efc71b7.24b80821@aol.com>
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In a message dated 7/9/99 4:15:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Mac4781@aol.com
writes:
> What's far more likely is that Jenna and Tarrant would get along quite
well.
>
> They are both industrious, bright, responsible, and a nice blend of
idealism
> and pragmaticism. I think Liberator would have been a more efficiently
run
> ship with the two of them to form an alliance of exceptionally talented
> pilots.
I agree. Tarrant and Jenna are very much alike in many ways. I think there
would have been some friction, but there was friction between all of the
characters. That didn't mean they hated each other; on the contrary, I
think they cared about each other a great deal. They just didn't show it
openly.
No one on the Liberator was easy to live with, except Gan. I think Gan's
even temper and patience defused many volatile situations in the early
seasons. He graciously tolerated Avon's sniping and was willing to make Vila
work when necessary.
> Fans may not like Tarrant, but transferring that dislike to B7 characters
is
> quite a stretch of the imagination. There was never any indication that
> Tarrant's shipmates share fans' loathing. In fact, Blake barely knew him
> but was ready to recruit him for his cause. There is no reason to presume
Jenna
> wouldn't like Tarrant. She got along with shipmates who had at least as
> many flaws as Tarrant does.
There are numerous examples of the high opinion Tarrant's crewmates had of
him. When Tarrant stood up to Avon in the third season, the rest of the crew
generally backed Tarrant. Children of Auron, Rumours of Death and Ultraworld
are good examples of this. In Moloch, Avon and Dayna went on a rescue
mission once they knew Tarrant was in trouble. In Terminal, Tarrant leads
the expedition to rescue Avon, and Cally follows him. They all seemed to
have a very easy-going relationship with him in Death-Watch, including Avon.
In "Rescue," Vila cared enough about Tarrant to save his life. They seemed
to have a friendly relationship throughout the fourth season, and in "Blake,"
Vila risks angering Avon by asking three times, "Where's Tarrant?" Dayna
respected him enough to follow his lead in "Traitor" and "Headhunter,"
against Avon's wishes. Soolin was willing to go out of her way to reunite
him with Zeeona in "Warlord." As for Avon, in the fourth season, Tarrant is
his trusted second-in-command. Tarrant was the one who was in charge on
board Scorpio in "Orbit" while Avon and Vila went down to Malodaar. Avon was
not willing to abandon him and Vila to die on Scorpio in "Headhunter," even
though Orac insisted it was necessary.
In "Blake," Avon even offers to stay on board the crashing Scorpio, and the
look on his face when he realizes that he is going to have to leave Tarrant
to die convinces me that he cared a great deal about Tarrant. Later, when
Tarrant reappears, he says, "I'm glad you made it."
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:32:54 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Servalan
Message-ID: <026601beca80$e27e3860$071bac3e@default>
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Harriet wrote:
+ADw-Adam wrote:
+ADwAPA- In theory, I might agree, but on the show, Servalan freeing herself from
that
white office was a breath of fresh air for the character. She spent two
seasons plotting with Travis, against Travis, against Travis and Blake, with
the plots wearing a little thin by the end of season 2. I liked seeing
Servalan interact with crew members (Cally, Vila, Dayna, etc.), the strange
relationship with Avon, and everything she did in Aftermath. +AD4APg-
+ADw-I'm with Neil on this one. One of the things I disliked about third and
fourth seasons was the way Servalan seemed to spend all her time chasing a
few outlaws round the galaxy when she should have been concentrating on
consolidating/regaining power.+AD4-
+ADw-And the scenes where I love her best is when she's interacting with
Federation politicians like Rontane, Bercol and Joban. I'd like to have
seen MUCH more Federation politics.+AD4-
Seconded. There was no good reason for her to have met any of the crew
face-to-face in the first two seasons. It's more reasonable in the third
season, assuming that Grose was right when he said that her empire didn't
exactly add up to much. The interminable Cunning Plans to capture the
Liberator did grate a bit, though. ('A pro keeps it simple' said Largo in
Chris Boucher's Shadow - and when did Boucher ever write a Cunning Plan To
Capture The Liberator script?) In the 4th Season, as a roving police
commissioner in a dingy lawless galactic backwater, there was perhaps more
excuse for Servalan to be out and about, and her appearances tended to be
when she and the Scorpio crew happened to cross paths. Shame on Jacqueline
Pearce, though, for refusing to wear the combat fatigues.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:58:03 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally (was Servalan)
Message-ID: <026701beca80$e336da00$071bac3e@default>
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Ellynne wrote:
<She could at least function as a
frontline medic and may have been the only person in her group of
freedom>fighters with any such training). The likely aftermath, with Cally
probably trying to give some sort of burial or last rites to a large
number of dead or (perhaps emotionally worse for her) being unable to do
so and having to leave her friends bodies to the elements and scavengers
(am I the only one totally grossed out at this picture?), could have
caused shell shock or worse.>
Cally the Distressed War Veteran is my own favoured interpretation of the
character, though I would suggest that her post-traumatic stress might lie
not only in the unsavoury things she saw the Federation doing, but also in
some of the unsavoury things she might have got up to with her fellow
rebels.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:58:58 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally (was Servalan)
Message-ID: <026801beca80$e3ef7ba0$071bac3e@default>
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AdamWho (who indeed?) wrote, re Cally:
+ADw-She came from a planet that lived with neutrality and nothing else+AD4-
Just because the series cites nothing else, that doesn't mean there was
nothing else at all.
+ADw-she had no military training that we know of+AD4-
But just because we don't know of it doesn't mean she never had any.
+ADw-She probably showed up on Suarian Major with a few skills, and they
welcomed her with open arms.+AD4-
You're just guessing. We know nothing about how she came to end up on
Saurian Major.
+ADw-With their lack of power, any help was a blessing.+AD4-
Assuming there was any lack of power on their part.
+ADw- I'm sure she learned a lot from the guerillas+AD4-
Evidence?
+ADw- but obviously never enough to anticipate Blake's obvious move for the
gun.+AD4-
Actually, it was the noise Vila made that she failed to anticipate. That
was what distracted her. If, as Ellynne suggested, she was traumatised with
survivor guilt, exhausted and half-starving, Blake would have been the
useless one for NOT getting the drop on her.
+ADw-I'm just glad I'm not the only one who liked her in season 3. It could have
been an even better season for her, if she hadn't been given minimal and+AFw-or
insulting roles in 4 or 5 episodes. The worst being Ultraworld, where she
spent almost the entire episode comatose. +AD4-
Actually, I think she was the lucky one for that episode...
Neil
+AD4-
+AD4-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:36:16 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Soolin (was Servalan)
Message-ID: <026a01beca80$e5ff6fe0$071bac3e@default>
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Joanne wrote:
>I can see A/S, but I'm not fond of the
>mating habits of the female praying mantis, if it comes to that <grin>)
Those fabled mating habits might be spurious. Mantises normally mate at
night, but the behaviour has normally been observed (and especially filmed)
under bright light, ie in very artificial conditions. Reportedly, some
biologist filmed the mantis mating ritual in darkness, using
light-intensifying cameras, and found that the female didn't eat the male
after all.
The same behaviour has been reported in some spider species, but it is
hardly universal. More commonly, the male dies after mating, and then gets
eaten by the female. (I've observed this in water spiders. I found a dying
male on a lily pad in my pond. Despite putting him back in the water, he
crawled out again within a few hours. And a day or two later, there was a
female guarding an egg sac. Not conclusive, I know, but there's more than a
hint of a causal connection.) Since female spiders tend to be larger than
the males (often twice as big, if not more) then the males tend to get eaten
as a matter of course - they just get mistaken for any other edible prey.
Male wolf spiders have evolved elaborate courting dances to put females off
eating them. In some species, the males are parasitic on the females - the
female spins the web, and the male snatches any uneaten tidbits he can get,
but the female might pounce on him while he's doing so. This is observable
with Meta segementata, one of the commonest orbweb spiders in Europe.
One bit of spider behaviour that the more aggressive feminists tend to
overlook - when the female stands guard over the egg sac, she dies about the
time the eggs hatch, and supplies the spiderlings with their first meal.
Nothing to do with B7, of course, but arguably far more interesting.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:42:20 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ben Steed the misogynist (was: Servalan)
Message-ID: <026b01beca80$e6c13940$071bac3e@default>
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Joanne wrote:
<<I think it's entirely bad writing, to be honest. It's the laziest of
twists - Aha! The baddy was <ta da!> a WOMAN!!!! (As in 'Two things >must
you know about the baddy - first, he is bad, second he is... a >WOMAN!!')>>
<Why am I irresistibly reminded of a certain episode of Blackadder, that
involved Tom Baker, at this point?>
Pedant's Corner, but since no-one else has pointed it out - it was
Blackadder II, but not the one with Tom Baker. I think Una was referring to
B's visit to the Wise Woman in episode 1 ('Bells'), whereas Tom Baker was in
the 4th/5th episode ('Potato').
But thinking about it, I can't help wondering how Avon would have coped with
Captain Rum ('You have a woman's legs, my lord...' etc).
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:15:34 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Soolin (was Servalan)
Message-ID: <026901beca80$e4b8e620$071bac3e@default>
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Mistral wrote:
+ADw-Hmm. It's been my experience that two very independent
people who've been alone for some time can grow tired
of the complete isolation, find kindred spirits in each other,
and form a bond that pretty much shuts the rest of the
world out. +AFs-By which I mean to say that the bond itself
is impervious, not that they give up interacting with others.+AF0-
That kind of bond is love as commitment, not love as romance+ADs-
a safe place to leave your heart, as opposed to a dangerous
roller-coaster ride of untrustworthy feelings. We know that
Avon is capable of great commitment+ADs- I think that Soolin's
patient and tenacious avenging of her family indicates that she's
capable of it as well. If they managed to arrive at that commitment
before reaching a really interesting side road, they'd turn down it
together, or not at all.+AD4-
A great description. Too bad I see it as more applicable to Cally than
Soolin. And she and Avon were stuck in a maze, never quite finding a road
long enough and straight enough to walk down together.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 20:37:57 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The estimable Jarriere
Message-ID: <026401beca80$e0c23080$071bac3e@default>
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Mistral wrote:
<< Yes! Yes! But what I'm trying to figure out is WHY???
Reasons I've considered:
1) He's a relative of hers.
2) He's a relative of somebody she needs to keep happy.
3) He's some sort of savant (in what field, I can't imagine.)
4) He has, um, er, how shall I say, hidden talents? (Although
I find this unlikely; why would she have put up with him
long enough to find out?)
And is he as slow-witted as he seems? Or are we to
think of him as normal so that she looks brilliant? Or
perhaps he's feigning the airhead bit? But why?
Thoughts? >>
In 'The Wit and Wisdom of the Dead' (in Judith's zine Star Three) I
suggested that Jarriere might have been Servalan's personal surgeon.
Admittedly this was primarily to explain why the nitre grenade he placed in
Travis' arm was unprimed - he didn't want to be involved in the killing of
fellow surgeon Docholli.
No doubt some people will ask why Servalan should need to take her personal
quack to Freedom City, since she didn't look the slightest bit poorly in the
episode. But that maybe just shows what a good doctor he was...
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:01:01 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan
Message-ID: <026501beca80$e1bdf5a0$071bac3e@default>
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Steve Kilbane wrote:
>> [Cally] also displays a
>> certain stupidity in Seek-Locate-Destroy (turning her head and letting
>> someone overpower her),
>
>Well, yes. As far as keeping control over your hostages goes, lining
>them up and waiting for them to rush you isn't the best method. In
fairness,
>though, the federation guard does exactly the same thing.
This kind of behaviour I ascribe largely to Nationitis, a virulent disease
in British TVSF and endemic in first season B7. It can debilitate the
strongest character at a moment of crisis, weakening them to the point where
their actions become entirely subservient to the demands of the plot and
common sense goes right out of the window.
As far as Seek-Locate-Destroy goes, I don't see any reason for taking
hostages in the first place. There weren't even humanitarian reasons, since
the whole place was going to get blown up as soon as Blake et al zipped back
up to the Liberator.
But who is to blame for this? Wet-assed liberal writers putting wet-assed
liberal characters into situations where wet-assed liberalism doesn't stand
a prayer? Or wet-assed liberal viewers demanding wet-assed liberal heroes
they can safely watch with minimal risk of being disenchanted?
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:39:11 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan
Message-Id: <199907100446.XAA00705@pemberton.magnolia.net>
><<Seeing her and Tarrant together would
>have been fun though - she would have put him in his place!>>
AdamWho said:
>I'd love to see her threatening to throw him off the Liberator if he didn't
>do something when she asked him to. He probably wouldn't like taking what
he
>dished out to Vila.
Unfortunately for that theory, I can't really see Tarrant rejecting a
reasonable request. Or even a lot of unreasonable ones.
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #212
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