From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #230 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume99/230 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 230 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Greedy is as greedy does? Part Two Re: [B7L] Horizon (Was: Greedy is as greedy does?) Re: [B7L] Return of the Avon/Soolin debate Re: [B7L] Harriet's Pella essay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 03:34:42 PDT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Greedy is as greedy does? Part Two Message-ID: <19990726103448.44962.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ellyne wrote after my �Blake is not a blackmailer� diatribe: <Trying to be fair (i.e. wishy washy) to both sides here,> and succeeding admirably (at being fair!!) <I think Avon sometimes _does_ blame Blake for the fact that he cares about him. Avon's problem is he _didn't_ decide to like Blake, he just likes him. For most people, not a problem, but it is for him. Being emotionally attached to Avon is something he perceives as threatening. Worse, Blake is aware of Avon's liking him and, at times, appeals to Avon's loyalty and decency, traits Avon doesn't like to admit exists.> Fair enough. I think it was the idea that Blake simply asking for Avon's opinion - as he does Cally's (Duel) or Jenna's (Weapon) - could be seen as emotional blackmail. *Not* asking for it would be both stupid and insulting. I agree that Avon probably resents the *fact* that he cares about this infuriating, impossible and intolerably likeable self-elected leader, though at times I get the feeling he's also reluctantly amused by it (*that* smile in Duel, his reaction to Vila�s 'I like (Blake)', the end of Trial...which brings up the point of how *he* feels about the fact that other people care about *him* - Blake being one of them. <At other times, I think he feels he is pushing Avon on things he needs to be pushed on--but he knows when to back off. In Countdown, he doesn't let Avon's reaction over Del Grant go till he knows what's going on, realizing he needs to know what kind of trouble he can expect between them and then trying to curtail that trouble till the planet's saved. OTOH, although he tries to talk to Avon about Anna and believes Avon would be better off talking about it, he lets it go.> Very well put. But even here, I think he'd be pushing Avon for answers even if they uncordially loathed each other, since it impacts on the mission. The difference is, in that case, he could push till Doomsday and still wouldn't *get* them... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 03:47:43 PDT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Horizon (Was: Greedy is as greedy does?) Message-ID: <19990726104743.90352.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mistral asks: <I wonder... in Horizon, does anyone think Blake knew that Avon was overhearing his conversation with Jenna in the teleport?> Personally, no I don't...it was a remarkably silly thing to say (and I think he realised it later), but I've always put it down to a lapse of thought and slight fit of bad temper. Comes straight from the previous scene - Blake has a headache (and has had it for some time) and is not feeling very reasonable; Avon has backache (and has also had it for some time) and isn't reasonable at the best of times. They're clearly having one of their *really* off days...like they equally clearly did just *before* the start of Redemption. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 05:47:37 PDT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Return of the Avon/Soolin debate Message-ID: <19990726124737.96006.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Aftre Carol wrote: <She doesn't trust him any further than she can throw him.> And Joanne answered: <And, unless Rob thinks otherwise, I doubt that any member of the crew (barring, perhaps, Tarrant) could lift Avon to try <smile> > Yes, they probably could have used Gan occasionally, when they *wanted* to throw Avon, preferably somewhere dark and deep. I don't think Soolin trusted him all that much, true. None of them did except Blake, and by 4th season, of course, Avon had become colder...but did Soolin lack the perception to see what Blake did or *have* the perception to realise that it wasn't going to work like that again? And did Soolin trust *anyone*? She certainly wouldn't have learned a great deal about the gentler or warmer emotions from *this* lot (no, not even Vila, as selfish in his own way as Avon). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 05:49:04 PDT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Harriet's Pella essay Message-ID: <19990726124904.21620.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ellyne wrote: <The simplest answer, that Avon was obviously still recovering from Dorian's attempt to dump all of his personality problems on the crew and that Avon's misogyny was really *Dorian's* misogyny, didn't occur to me till later.> Not bad, Ellyne...I'll buy this. Especially if you add in my excusing him on the grounds that he's still in a state of severe emotional shock (how long *is* it from Rumours through to Rescue?) after rapidly losing or *re*-losing three of the four most important people in his life (IMHO - and that we know about). His mind's on autopilot, everything except survival instincts shut down, and he doesn't know it, because he doesn't admit to the depth of the shock anyway. So, add in your Dorian dump (made easier by the trauma Avon's been through)...remember that Pella *is* an enemy, and Avon always did fight dirty with anyone he saw as a threat...settle the rose-coloured glasses more firmly on the nose...and don't watch the episode too often (of course, one could argue that *once* is too often). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #230 **************************************