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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 287
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Adult Warnings
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #286
Re: [B7L] Stephen Greif Question
Re: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #285
[B7L] Test
Charlie's Aunt (was: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS)
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #285
Re: [B7L] Stephen Greif Question
Re: [B7L] Adult Warnings
[B7L] Authority and obedience
Re: [B7L] Authority and obedience
[B7L] web update
Re: [B7L] Authority and obedience
Re: [B7L] Stephen Greif Question
Re: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS
Re: [B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
Re: [B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:18:11 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Carol & Gordon Burgess <storm@catchnet.com.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Adult Warnings
Message-ID: <37FA98090000138F@base.catchnet.com.au> (added by base.catchnet.com.au)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Something in that Danni Lighter post that made me think...
>
>> disgusting porn stories, without even any warnings in some cases
>> (though others say "Hey, if you're not over 18, go away now" which is
>> really going to deter the average 13/14 year old playing with dad's
>> computer, isn't it?)
>
>...struck me as unreasonable. I mean, *excuse me*, this is the
>internet, you can't *control* where people click, you can only warn
>them. Is that not reasonable?
>Personally, I think putting warnings up is reasonable. Me, I *don't*
>want to come across pornographic stuff by accident. I want to be
>warned, so I can avoid it. Whether this be on the internet, or in
>zines. *Not* warning is wrong. But expecting something more than a
>warning (*what* more?) is unreasonable.
>
>Opinions?
>
I agree with you Kathryn, ALL adult and or slash should carry at warning.
For that matter a very large warning not some very small font at the bottom
of the page but a large, eye catching warning with the option to either go to
the Gen section of the site or leave altogether..
I am one of the fold who often, actively goes looking for adult/slash fanfic
( as well as being in the middle of writing (( if you can call it writing )) two
fanfic pieces one of which is in the B7 realm ) and must say that most sites
I visit are quite adequately signed.. And due to having two 11 year olds running
around the house thess sites are only visited when the kids are either A) at
school or B ) in bed . I may have some liberal ideas with regards to my fanfic
but they are too young to be exposed to it as yet.. For this same reason I never
leave any slash or adult zines lying around the house, they are secured away..
Now I am practically computer illiterate so I don't know if there are any
alternatives other than just a warning or a password, as one particular
site I visit uses. But to try to have all adult and or slash removed
from the internet, well.. I think it's much too late to even consider
it, even just from the perspective of one fandom, such as Blake's 7..
As to the advertising, there are still many of people in the fandom
who choose not to join the Cyberworld and still rely on adverts and
flyers to keep them informed.. Provided every zine flyer / add carries
in clear plain print a warning of the nature of the content, the onus
is then on the buyer.. Just the same as it is on someone who, upon
seeing the words "adult/ slash material go back if you are under 18
or are easily offended by such material" and yet still downloads
or reads the stories within..
We can only do so much and the rest is left to the individual..
I am told that I vet my childrens TV watching too harshly as they
are not allowed to watch such shows as " Simpsons", "Ren and Stimpy"
and " South Park" But as the parent here it is my choice just as
they are never left alone in the internet, that way if they come
across one of those sites with a warning on it I can guarantee
that they do not enter..
So between an adequate warning and parental supervision I should
think that would be quiet sufficient to keep the youngsters away
from any said sites..
TTFN
Carol 'Hondo'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 19:54:53 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #286
Message-ID: <37FEAE7E.32D1@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Kathryn, since you ask, I think you are 100% right about warnings on
internet and in the zines.
--Avona
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 04:30:54 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Carol & Gordon Burgess <storm@catchnet.com.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Stephen Greif Question
Message-ID: <37FA9809000013EF@base.catchnet.com.au> (added by base.catchnet.com.au)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Many thanks to all of you who answered my Citizen Smith question..
Looks like I shall have to be on the look out for this show in
the future :-)
Ta Very Much
Carol 'Hondo'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:22:33 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS
Message-ID: <19991008.205440.10118.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:09:26 +0100 "Alison Page"
<alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>Michael Keating is currently appearing in the popular farce
>'Charley's
>Aunt'
>>playing Stephen Spettigue at the Swan Theatre, Worcester, until Sat
>16th
>>October. Box Office 01905 27322.
>
>
>Hey! MK in a theatre not too far away from me.
>
>But - does anyone know Charlie's aunt?' - what kind of a role is this
>Stephen fellow - will he be on for just a couple of minutes, or does
>he get
>a good go?
>
It's been a while since I've seen it, but it's a fairly big part, if
memory serves. In fact (while I know actors shouldn't be overly confused
with the roles they've played) this is a scenario you can imagine Avon
getting Vila into, as far as the story goes.
Quick summary: Two 19th century gentlemen are going to have their
sweethearts over. One (Charley) intends to propose. The problem is his
aunt (necessary chaperon) isn't there yet, so he and his friend draft
another friend and force him to pretend to be his rich aunt from South
America.
Stephen Spettigue is the father of Charley's sweetheart. He decides he
would like to marry the _rich_ aunt no matter how ugly she is. The
'aunt' can't discourage the father until Charley is sure it won't cost
him his own sweetheart. Then the real aunt shows up . . . .
I keep picturing Avon forcing Vila to pretend to be Servalan to fool
Blake, or other variations.
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:43:01 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #285
Message-ID: <19991009104301.A4320@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 01:06:49AM +0200, Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
> For those of you who didn't know it yet: I don't like slash or het. So I
> just ignore it when I come across it. I believe that that is a far more
> mature reaction than trying to force everyone around you to change to suit
> your tastes.
I think it's a question of authority, sort of. I *have* thought about
this question, and as most people know, I don't like slash or het
either. (Indeed, "don't like" is probably putting it mildly, as far
as slash goes). *Where I have authority* I will growl at slash and
toss it out the door. No slash in my zines. No adult in my zines.
None in my stories, none in my art. I don't submit to slash or adult
zines, I don't advertise them, and so on. If I was running a
convention, I wouldn't have adult art in the art show, nor adult zines
in the dealers room. *But that would be as far as it would go.* I
would have the right to do that because these things would be under my
authority, they would be my party, and my responsibility, and I
couldn't, in all conscience, condone such things where I was
responsible for the policies in place. But that is as far as it could
go.
Where something is *not* under my authority, where it is *not* my
responsibilty, I have *no right* to tell other people what to do. I
have every right to tell them I *don't like* what they're doing,
I can even tell them that what they're doing is immoral (though that
usually doesn't do any good, because we usually don't share a common
moral code) but that's all. It's called "persuasion".
Trying to take authority where none is given, that's called arrogance.
And a few other things as well, I expect.
That's one of the interesting things about authority. One can't take
authority, one is given it, by the obedience of others. ... Suddenly I
am reminded of Blake. He had authority on the Liberator because the
others gave it to him - including Avon.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 20:33:13 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Test
Message-ID: <19991009033313.4024.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
After I wrote:
<I am now firmly squashing the mental image I immediately get of
*real* laryngitis aboard the Liberator. Avon would suffer most (and
be by far the most obnoxious patient. Poor Cally.)
Avona replied:
<I don't know. Kerr my sort of like having laryngitis. Then he could
just give scathing looks, and save up his witticisms for later, without
having to interact much with the others.>
But how much would he like being nursed by - ermmm - oh let's face
it, anyone except maybe Cally and maybe (because she's detached
enough not to annoy) Soolin? Vila would gleefully natter him into a
conniption; Gan would be intolerably soothing and comforting and
*nice*; Jenna, Dayna and Tarrant would find the excuse to tease
endlessly irresistable; Blake...combination of mother hen syndrome
(he's got a strong protective streak), mildly malicious amusement and
the chance to get a fair way ahead in the verbal sparring...
<Of course, what he would LOVE is for all the others to have laryngitis and
him not.>
And what a nurse *he'd* make (which is just one reason why in h/c
he makes a better comfortee than comforter).
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 20:54:08 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Charlie's Aunt (was: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS)
Message-ID: <19991009035408.86701.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ellyne wrote:
<I keep picturing Avon forcing Vila to pretend to be Servalan to fool
Blake, or other variations.>
<Vila in one of Servie's gowns is not a pretty mental picture. But
marginally better than Tarrant in one, considerably better than Avon,
and waaaayyyyy more bearable than Fearless Leader or <shudder>
Gan (can you picture him in the one with the lizard hanging off the front in
Pressure Point?)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 14:13:33 EST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #285
Message-ID: <19991009041334.63550.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
>Kerr my sort
<evil grin> Yes, we knew that!
Regards
Joanne
(glad you're over it)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 05:22:06 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Stephen Greif Question
Message-ID: <005201bf120f$27a557e0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Neil wrote:
>
> > How about putting Sergeant-Major Shut-Up
> > aboard the Liberator?
God help me, it'll be 'Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em' next...
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 05:31:20 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Adult Warnings
Message-ID: <005401bf120f$282d73a0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kathryn wrote:
> Personally, I think putting warnings up is reasonable. Me, I *don't*
> want to come across pornographic stuff by accident. I want to be
> warned, so I can avoid it. Whether this be on the internet, or in
> zines. *Not* warning is wrong. But expecting something more than a
> warning (*what* more?) is unreasonable.
>
> Opinions?
Indeed, I believe that providing a warning is the only sensible one of your
options, unless you want to attempt to control the entire content of the
Internet. It appears to be fairly standard procedure: 'We aren't responsible
for the content of external sites...' etc.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 05:29:50 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Authority and obedience
Message-ID: <005301bf120f$27e10150$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kathryn wrote:
> That's one of the interesting things about authority. One can't take
> authority, one is given it, by the obedience of others. ... Suddenly I
> am reminded of Blake. He had authority on the Liberator because the
> others gave it to him - including Avon.
Hmm, not sure I totally agree. Surely you can take authority by force and
coercion, like the Federation. You could argue that acting obediently
through fear is tantamount to complicity (in that *Blake* chose to fight),
but when you act obediently because you've been drugged or brainwashed is
another matter. Sometimes the choice isn't there.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 22:46:28 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Authority and obedience
Message-ID: <37FED6B3.E1993B91@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Una McCormack wrote:
> Kathryn wrote:
>
> > That's one of the interesting things about authority. One can't take
> > authority, one is given it, by the obedience of others. ... Suddenly I
> > am reminded of Blake. He had authority on the Liberator because the
> > others gave it to him - including Avon.
>
> Hmm, not sure I totally agree. Surely you can take authority by force and
> coercion, like the Federation. You could argue that acting obediently
> through fear is tantamount to complicity (in that *Blake* chose to fight),
> but when you act obediently because you've been drugged or brainwashed is
> another matter. Sometimes the choice isn't there.
There's a difference between rule and authority.
You can rule by force. Authority's given, and has more of
responsibilities in it than of rights.
Mistral, charter member of hair-splitters anonymous
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:47:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] web update
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1008214726-256Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
There's a load of updates on the web site, particularly in the Gareth Thomas
section where there's a load of new pictures.
Visit http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 and take a look.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 01:51:42 -0400
From: Meredith Dixon <dixonm@access.mountain.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Authority and obedience
Message-ID: <o9b+N94gn8wakRpmywdYhc0PLkL3@4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sat, 9 Oct 1999 05:29:50 +0100, Una wrote:
>Kathryn wrote:
>
>> That's one of the interesting things about authority. One can't take
>> authority, one is given it, by the obedience of others. ... Suddenly I
>> am reminded of Blake. He had authority on the Liberator because the
>> others gave it to him - including Avon.
>
>Hmm, not sure I totally agree. Surely you can take authority by force and
>coercion, like the Federation.
No, it's a question of definitions. If you try to take
authority, all you get is power.
--
Meredith Dixon <dixonm@access.mountain.net>
Check out *Raven Days*, for victims and survivors of bullying.
And for those who want to help.
http://web.mountain.net/~dixonm/raven.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 23:40:28 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Stephen Greif Question
Message-ID: <19991009064028.96194.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
From Neil:
<How about putting Sergeant-Major Shut-Up aboard
the Liberator?>
And Una:
<God help me, it'll be 'Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em'
next...>
Oh please oh please - someone? Anyone?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:47:12 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS
Message-ID: <012901bf122a$9913c7c0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Thanks to Ellyne and people who wrote privately to tell me about charley's
aunt.
>Stephen Spettigue is the father of Charley's sweetheart. He decides he
>would like to marry the _rich_ aunt no matter how ugly she is. The
>'aunt' can't discourage the father until Charley is sure it won't cost
>him his own sweetheart. Then the real aunt shows up . . . .
>
A bit like 'some like it hot' then.
'I'm not a woman!'
'Nobody's perfect'
>I keep picturing Avon forcing Vila to pretend to be Servalan to fool
>Blake, or other variations.
Ah, yes. 'Other variations.' I've heard of them :-)
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:30:31 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
Message-ID: <000301bf1286$fe41b560$6a498cd4@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kathryn wrote:
>If and when this thing becomes official Horizon policy, we can
>disuss it then. Until then, let us politely pretend we haven't seen
>it.
I can't agree. If Tony Blair sent a private communique to the rest of the
cabinet about some extreme proposal he'd dreamed up, and said communique
then appeared in the newspapers, would we all then say, 'Oh dear, this is a
bit underhand, let's wait until it becomes government policy.'? No, we
wouldn't. Horizon might not be the government, but the principle is the
same - the Danni Lighter post is a leak, pure and simple, and we should be
thankful to Danni (whoever s/he really is) for leaking it and Calle for
forwarding it. It is only through people doing such things that we can be
made aware of what is being proposed. Being forewarned allows us to be
forearmed, if we wish to be. Any attempt to suppress adult/slash material
is of great concern to a lot of people within fandom, and I believe they
have the right to be informed, regardless of etiquette.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:53:19 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
Message-ID: <19991010135319.B7817@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Oct 09, 1999 at 12:30:31PM +0100, Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Kathryn wrote:
> >If and when this thing becomes official Horizon policy, we can
> >disuss it then. Until then, let us politely pretend we haven't seen
> >it.
>
> I can't agree. If Tony Blair sent a private communique to the rest of the
> cabinet about some extreme proposal he'd dreamed up, and said communique
> then appeared in the newspapers, would we all then say, 'Oh dear, this is a
> bit underhand, let's wait until it becomes government policy.'? No, we
> wouldn't. Horizon might not be the government, but the principle is the
> same - the Danni Lighter post is a leak, pure and simple, and we should be
> thankful to Danni (whoever s/he really is) for leaking it and Calle for
> forwarding it. It is only through people doing such things that we can be
> made aware of what is being proposed. Being forewarned allows us to be
> forearmed, if we wish to be. Any attempt to suppress adult/slash material
> is of great concern to a lot of people within fandom, and I believe they
> have the right to be informed, regardless of etiquette.
Darn, stop confusing me! That is actually a reasonable point you
make. I guess it depends on whether one considers the whole on a
personal level or on a political one. On a personal level, it would
be aiding and abetting a betrayal of trust. On a political level, it
would be constituents discussing a leaked cabinet document.
Thing is, what I don't want to see is hysterical and acrimonious
name-calling in a public forum. In any dispute, surely the most
sensible thing to do is to talk to the person with whom one has the
dispute - in this case, Diane Gies? I believe she isn't actually on
the Lyst. Do we want the same sort of thing to happen as happened
about Deliverance - Diane gets told some garbled second-hand version
of the debate, and gets stubbornly defensive? <sarcasm>Gee, what a
real great way of getting her to change her mind.</sarcasm>
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #287
**************************************