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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 29
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Re: Vila and Deltas
[B7L] Re: Fascism
Re: [B7L] Vila and Deltas and stuff
Re: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Re: [B7L] The Woman in B7
Re: [B7L] Re: Fascism
Re: [B7L] Re: Tolkien, Moorcock and Fascism
Re: [B7L] Trolling 101
Re: [B7L] Re: Anarchist Dictators
Re: [B7L] Re:Deutsch/English Ubersetzung
[B7L] Trolling 301: Comparative Anatomy
Re: [B7L] Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
Re: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Re: [B7L] The Woman in B7
Re: [B7L] Re: Homophobia/Who
[B7L] Soolin
[B7L] Re: b7spin: Re: Last few of Babylon 5 - no spoilers
Re: [B7L] Does anyone remember me?
Re: [B7L] Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
[B7L]
Re: [B7L]
[B7L] Re: Horizon competition
[B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Re: [B7L]
Re: [B7L] Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
Re: [B7L] Soolin
Re: [B7L] Trolling 301: Comparative Anatomy
Re: [B7L] Ecology
Re: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
[B7L] B7 characters and dustbin lids
[B7L] bringing up children
Re: [B7L] bringing up children
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:12:54 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Vila and Deltas
Message-ID: <199901141413_MC2-66AE-A9D1@compuserve.com>
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Re Stephen Date's interesting post:
I am one of the people least convinced by arguments for a rigid grade
system dominating Federation life (too few references to justify the
elaborate structure fans have built), but this doesn't entirely matter
here.
Stephen writes:
>Were the Federation trying to breed violent impulses
>out of the Deltas ? I know that the show frequently
>suggests they were drugged but it seems to go further
>than that.
No doubt they would have liked to do more, but I don't think it can have
gone further than drugging and punishment. If they'd succeeded in breeding
passive workers, there wouldn't have been such need for the drugs.
>The other prisoners on the London (I presume most of
>whom were Deltas) were a pretty unaggressive lot.
<copy cut>.
> On Cygnus Alpha when Blake told them that they could
>fight or they could die he discovered that he had given
>most of them one option too many. I know they were
>drugged on the ship but that must have worn off by CA.
Like you say - they were drugged on the ship (hardly anyone but our heroes
tried keeping off the food), and when Blake found them in the prison cell
they were ill with Vargas's Curse of Cygnus.
>Organised crime amongst the Deltas was run by a covert
>branch of the Federation (Shadow). It seems logical to
>assume that the idea was to co-opt any trouble makers
>who did get past the genetic screening and the drugs
>instead of letting them become nuclei of discontent.
Interesting idea, but Vila specifically says that the reason why Blake
should have taken him to Space City is because Blake has lived a pampered
life and won't be prepared for the nasty sort of types Vila's been brought
up with. (Don't have precise quote to hand.) Whatever his motive, I don't
think he'd try the argument even on an Auron if the lower classes were
notoriously peaceful. And Vila demonstrates that crime doesn't have to be
organised to exist among his peers. I'm sure there are plenty of nasty
Delta thugs, running their own little protection rackets, even if some of
them aspire to go and do it for the Terra Nostra eventually.
Cf Orwell's 1984: "There was a vast amount of criminality... a whole
world-within-a-world of thieves, bandits, prostitutes, drug-peddlers, and
racketeers of every description; but since it all happened among the proles
themselves, it was of no importance."
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:12:58 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Fascism
Message-ID: <199901141413_MC2-66AE-A9D4@compuserve.com>
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Sarah T wrote:
>The most outrageous Tolkien parody I've ever seen
>myself is National Lampoon's =Bored of the Rings=,
>but I can't remember who wrote it or even if an author
>is credited.
I've seen this, but it wasn't very lively. What everyone should read is
Mary Gentle's Grunts - the orcish viewpoint. It could have ended sooner,
but it's still worth the effort.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:47:46 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and Deltas and stuff
Message-ID: <xkQofYAildn2Ewso@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <19990113211811.20373.qmail@hotmail.com>, Edith Spencer
<sueno45@hotmail.com> writes
> Own any precious stones? The mining process is large automated
>now, but these materials must still be sighted by human eye, often up
>close and personal. So Trek, B7 and DS9 do have it right- you still need
>a person, often in dangerous/uncomfortable places, to be able to discern
>what is going on.
Plenty of other examples of this. The phrase "point counting" will
doubtless cause one or two others on this list to scream in horror:-)
It's a system of analysing materials under a microscope whereby someone
peers down the microscope, decides whats under the cross hairs, and
pushes a button on a keypad which records what the material is and
advances to the next field of view. Repeat five hundred times. Or a
thousand. Or two thousand, depending on how accurate you want your
statistics. Or even more <blech>.
This *can* be done by image recognition systems for many materials, but
for many others it simply isn't worth the enormous investment in putting
together visual equipment and software - it's cheaper to pay a human a
reasonable (and I mean reasonable, this is not trained monkey work for
many materials) wage to do it.
Of course, if you do pay peanuts, you get things like horribly high
rates of false positives, or more worryingly false negatives, on smear
tests...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:21:27 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Message-ID: <19990114222127.28271.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Ich glaube, dass Sie ganz Scheisse schreiben. Warum?
>Neil von Faulkner
As Neneh Cherry put it, I don't speak Swahili, but I do get the
impression that you don't think much of the idea. What does the rest of
it mean? (Just for non-German understanding me, please.)
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:24:41 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Woman in B7
Message-ID: <19990114222441.25852.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
[snip] >>Of course, malcontents like Avon would not exist because a
happy
>>home would have made him a happy productive individual.
>>Comments?
>How did Ben Steed get onto this list?
>Russ Massey
<laughter> Thank you very much, Russ. I appreciate that greatly.
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:28:17 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fascism
Message-ID: <ivocd6AB+mn2Ew$Q@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199901141413_MC2-66AE-A9D4@compuserve.com>, Harriet
Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> writes
>
>I've seen this, but it wasn't very lively. What everyone should read is
>Mary Gentle's Grunts - the orcish viewpoint. It could have ended sooner,
>but it's still worth the effort.
>
Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes - one of my all-time favourite fantasy novels.
Whyinhell didn't I get around to buying that while it was still in print
here? Oh well, one for the shoppping list next trip to the US.
--
Julia Jones
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:57:56 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tolkien, Moorcock and Fascism
Message-ID: <000601be4018$fb921440$a119ac3e@default>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Tiger M wrote:
>I agree with most of what you have to say here, but the only character
>explicitly stated to be an alpha was Blake.
True.
> I also had the impression that there weren't very many alphas.
A not unreasonable conclusion, but we're not actually told that.
>If Avon had been an alpha, I think he would have
>already had the status and wealth he so desperately craved and would have
had
>no need for the bank fraud.
But even as an alpha, 5 million creds (not to mention the 500 million cited
by the Ultra) would still probably be a lot lot more than his legal income.
And I don't think he craved status - more likely he despised the kind of
'status' associated with wealth, IMO.
>Tarrant was a line officer, not an aide in a cushy job at HQ.
He was actually a pilot, which appeared to carry some prestige. But you're
right, we don't actually know his grade.
>I had the impression that military service was one of the
>ways in which people could improve their social status in the Federation.
Not an impression I've ever received myself. Evidence?
>Jenna was described as a superior grade citizen, but that is not
necessarily
>synonymous with alpha.
Again true.
>All three of these characters seem to have come from
>backgrounds where they were expected to work for a living.
Why shouldn't alphas have to work for a living? Their money's got to come
from somewhere.
Okay, I grant you only Blake was stated to be alpha (and then only by Vila,
not the most reliable of sources). But Avon, Jenna, Tarrant and Dayna were
probably either alpha or beta and hence still don't qualify as proles. Vila
claimed to be delta, Gan is an unknown, Cally is an alien and hence doesn't
count, and since Soolin came from GP when it was not part of the Federation
she probably wouldn't have had a grade (unless the social grading system
extended beyond the Federation, of course). So five out of nine are not
proles, and only one has anything like a strong claim to be one. Hardly a
representative showing for a supposed bastion of hope in the crusade for
liberty.
It's interesting to conjecture if Terry Nation really did believe that our
only hope lay in dissidence among the ruling classes. More likely it
reflects a touching faith in parliamentary democracy (the ruling body rather
than the ruling class - political alphas as opposed to social ones). Very
hobbitish. I might believe it when the little Tonys (Banks and Benn) unseat
the big one, but until then...
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:42:33 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Trolling 101
Message-Id: <199901150041.SAA01876@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Penny Dreadful wrote:
>Supe "Crocodile" Stud00 said (You call that a troll? See, this, now
>*this* is a troll.):
I liked Neil's better. Proper trolling requires an artistic use of
understatement -- the offhand remark, the throwaway phrase. A sense of
subtlety. This one was about as subtle as Jarvik.
(Is this the same person who opined some time back that the reason so many
female B7 fans like Avon is because he was a real macho male instead of
some sensitive wimpy type? I seem to recall the style.)
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:32:19 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Anarchist Dictators
Message-ID: <006101be4020$1f89ac80$a119ac3e@default>
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Murray wrote
> I was very interested in your belief in 'anarchist dictatorship'.
This is a pity, because my suggestion of the concept was primarily ironic.
There has been some very exhaustive critical analysis of Verne, but I've not
read any of it. Your potted summary of Nemo suggests to me that the one
thing he is not is an anarchist.
His rejection of the terrestrial (ie; civilised) world means that he rejects
the enforced interdependence of organised society as something that limits
the self-realisation and right to free action of the individual marked for
personal greatness (himself). In other words, his philosophy is very much
that of the self-styled Ubermensch. An anarchist, by contrast, believes in
a society that can organise itself for the common good without recourse to
institutionalised power structures. Nemo sees himself as above
civilisation, beyond good and evil, and society can go hang (or drown).
There are close parallels between Nemo and some of the African explorers
I've been reading about. Henry Morton Stanley, the man who 'found'
Livingstone (on behalf of an American newspaper that kept him well away from
Livingstone for as long as possible to maximise the impact of the story) was
just one of many who found a freedom in Africa that civilised life could
never offer him. Hairsbreadth escapes from certain death, involvement in
tribal wars, being revered as a magician, the freedom to treat his bearers
with as much or as little brutality as he pleased - Stanley, like so many
others, revelled in living life on the edge and living it to the full. He
despised radical politics and its 'levelling down' of the 'great' to a
universal mediocrity. Richard Burton (the adventurer/explorer, not the
actor!) shared this view; in his writings he waxed lyrical of the lost
values of the Middle Ages, where a strong man with nothing but his sword
might triumph over all adversity. Burton, however, forsook a sword of his
own for the best breech-loading rifles that the civilisation he despised
could offer. Stanley introduced spear-wielding tribesmen to the business
end of the Maxim machine gun.
Such men were hardly anarchists.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:42:46 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Deutsch/English Ubersetzung
Message-ID: <006201be4020$2074a8c0$a119ac3e@default>
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Joanne wrote:
>As Neneh Cherry put it, I don't speak Swahili, but I do get the
>impression that you don't think much of the idea. What does the rest of
>it mean? (Just for non-German understanding me, please.)
It is a statement to the effect that the opinions proffered by StupeSud00
might have market potential as quality fertiliser.
Stephen Hendry ne estas Satano.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:31:49 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Trolling 301: Comparative Anatomy
Message-ID: <19990115023150.21358.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
I opined:
>>(You call that a troll? See, this, now *this* is a troll.):
Lisa countered:
>I liked Neil's better. Proper trolling requires an artistic use of
>understatement -- the offhand remark, the throwaway phrase. A sense of
>subtlety. This one was about as subtle as Jarvik.
I beg to differ. Unsubtlety is, in my opinion, one of the essential
features of a Classic Troll. So is rampant misspelling, and on both
these counts SupeStud00 has Neil beat hands down. Which reminds me, Neil
did so spell "Delaney" correctly.
Of course the true measure of a troll's success is the sheer amount of
vitrolic verbiage incited: I invite anyone with even less of a life than
me to do a comparative study on followups to the two posts in
question...
-- Penny "Religion Immigration Vivisection Abortion" Dreadful
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:29:50 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
Message-ID: <369EB61B.5FF6@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Re: The Idiot's theory that is women stayed home with kids, there'd be
no social troubles.
What about fathers? They can be so emotionally abusive no amount of
motherly nurturing could counteract damage to a child's psyche. I'm
dealing right now with a friend with a father from Hell.
Furthermore, stay-at-home mothers would be less able to counteract the
damage done.
Invalid theory even within it's internal logic, regardless of any other
competing theories about personality, child development, sexual
politics, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:30:10 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Message-ID: <369EB641.7F35@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
>
> ><< the powerful prey on the weak and the weak let them,>>
> >
> >The first law of nature. The weak are so because they choose to be.
>
> The first law of nature: the viability of a population of predators is
> determined by the availability of prey. Who, then, is truly the weaker?
>
> Neil the Ecologist
Continuing ecologically... so, the large predators CHOOSE to become prey
to viruses?Neil Faulkner wrote:
>
> ><< the powerful prey on the weak and the weak let them,>>
> >
> >The first law of nature. The weak are so because they choose to be.
>
> The first law of nature: the viability of a population of predators is
> determined by the availability of prey. Who, then, is truly the weaker?
>
> Neil the Ecologist
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:30:32 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Woman in B7
Message-ID: <369EB657.73C0@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> In message <a8b40467.369d31e0@aol.com>, SupeStud00@aol.com
> writes
> >It has always been my opinion that by the time of B7, women will no longer be
> >in command positions ala Servalan. Before I'm stoned by feminists rocks, let
> >me explain.
> >
> >At some point, especially following a great catastrophe like the one hinted at
> >in B7, social scientists and engineers will realize that society has degraded
> >because of the disintegration of the family unit, brought on by the failure of
> >women to remain home with their chiudren and maintain the family unit (ie-
> >cook, clean, etc.) As a result, women would be required by the Fewderation to
> >return to the "Leave It To Beaver" mode of doing things. Servalan would be
> >barefoot and pregnant, Soolin would be vacuming the rug, Dayna would be
> >dusting etc. Of course, malcontents like Avon would not exist because a happy
> >home would have made him a happy productive individual.
> >
> >Comments?
If people are still breeding in the future at the rate that demands
women stay home to look after kids, we are doomed. We are going to
stabilize the population. Women who want kids will have them, and
hopefully economically be able to stay home-- or allow the father to
stay home and nurture them. Men ARE capable of that, you know.
Other women will have no children whatsoever and therefore have no
reason to stay home.
Soolin had her parents killed, and would hunt the writer of this
mindless drivel down and shoot him.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:31:18 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Homophobia/Who
Message-ID: <369EB686.1B79@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
>
> Martin wrote, re Robert Holmes
>
> >The only stand out sexuality I note throughout his work is a genderless
> sadism.
>
> He does seem to inject a level of viciousness and callousness into his
> scripts, though I'm not sure it's sexual. It feels more like a result of
> the despair generated by being (eg) a vegetarian in a carnivorous society -
> impossible not to see the worst in people. I know that feeling well.
Hey, _I'm_ a vegetarian in a carnivorous society, and I actually am
pretty good about seeing the best in people.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:32:11 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Soolin
Message-ID: <19990115033212.25388.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Soolin had her parents killed,
What an image, Avona! I knew she was ruthless, but...
[<sotto voce> yes, I know <smile>]
>and would hunt the writer of this mindless drivel down and shoot him.
She'd have plenty of offers of help, I'm sure.
Regards
Joanne
(the computers still have problems. It shows, doesn't it?)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:18:08 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: b7spin: Re: Last few of Babylon 5 - no spoilers
Message-ID: <369EB370.3DB5@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Una McCormack wrote:
> I watched back some episodes from the first few seasons over the weekend -
> TNT were doing a 'Best Of': 'Severed Dreams', 'Z'Ha'dum', 'War Without
> End'. Wow! *Now* I remember why I loved it so much!
A great part of the interest was seeing aliens who actually seemed a bit
alien (Kosh, Delen - before she got hair and starry-eyed over Sheridan,
and of course, the wonderful unseen Shadows.) The monsters we don't see
are always far more frightening than those we do!
A favorite "monster" of mine in Blakes 7 was the Gaia planet that
swallowed Zil the ChickenLady. It was *so* alien! I rather liked the
Phibians as well, again because we saw so little of them. Splashy
threats in the dark - Travis anxiously glancing back over his shoulder -
ooooh!
> >what do you think of the premise of JMS's next series: Crusade?
> (and hey, even before it's begun, we know how it will end
> >already, right? Because US TV hasn't the guts to end a series on the
> >grand dramatic disaster note that Blakes 7 dared to do).
> I've managed to avoid finding out what the end will be,
What I meant was: we know the good guys will win in the end, because
this is US tv and the stars of a show *always* win. This is the reason
why the Trek franchise is so dull. This is the reason why my first
viewing of Blakes 7 kept me avid every night! Because sometimes the crew
lost. It's no fun winning all the time. And there's certainly no
dramatic interest in a win-win-win predictable outcome. If only US tv
would learn this! Aussie tv is better, judging from Xena; the lead
characters sometimes lose; if not lives, (well, that too - but nobody
can stay dead on that show) at least some part of themselves they value.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:32:52 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Does anyone remember me?
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990114223252.008184e0@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Helen Krummenacker wrote:
>Re-subbed and safe.
YES!!!!
>Tramila, are you awake? ;^/
I'm here! Waiting for your return. HUGS HUGS HUGS
PS. Thank you Pat?! :)
>Avona has returned.
I'm sooooooo happy you're here!!!!
Tramila
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.990115100807.19051A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> What about fathers? They can be so emotionally abusive no amount of
> motherly nurturing could counteract damage to a child's psyche. I'm
> dealing right now with a friend with a father from Hell.
> Furthermore, stay-at-home mothers would be less able to counteract the
> damage done.
Of course, the above statement would be just as true with the words
"father" and "mother" swapped.
Iain
[just doing my bit for sexual equality]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:47:56 PST
From: "Stephen Date" <stephendate@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L]
Message-ID: <19990115114759.7801.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
A lost scene from a prospective season 5 episode has fallen into my
possession. I thought you might be interested.
Space Command Headquarters. Servalan is sitting on a comfy chair with a
glass of that green stuff. A handsome young lieutenant is feeding her
Ferrero Rocher chocolates. Two mutoids (male) enter bringing Supestud
bound and gagged. They ungag him, tie his hands to the hook of a crane
which lifts him up and dangles him over a tank filled with piranhas.
Supestud: Please ! Don't do this ! I didn't mean it about you being
barefoot and pregnant !
Servalan: I knew Ven Jarvik. Honey, you're no Ven Jarvik.
She pressed a remote control device. The camera focuses on her face
which wears a look of cool amusement. Out of shot we hear a blood
curdling scream, a loud splash followed by a series of smaller splashes
which gradually die out. Servalan looks up at the lieutenant.
Servalan: Now then, who's this Tanith Lee ?
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Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:23:21 -0000
From: "Jenni -Alison" <Jenni-Alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-Id: <199901151210.NAA07274@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Stephen
<snip highly amusing and most appropriate scene>
ROFL
Just another reason to love Servalan!
Jenni
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:45:02 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Horizon competition
Message-ID: <199901150745_MC2-66C4-6F8A@compuserve.com>
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Judith Proctor writes:
>I suspect most people would want a story actually
>set in the first or second season, but I'm not sure that
>this is what Brian Lighthill wants (though I do hope I'm wrong).
Yes, but if everyone dutifully writes fourth season because Brian Lighthill
wants it, then he'll be able to say "Look! That's what everyone's been
interested in all along!" The more second season goes in, the more chance
someone might notice that that was actually rather popular.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:45:33 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Message-ID: <199901150746_MC2-66C4-6F94@compuserve.com>
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Rob replied to Neil:
>>What is missing is a concrete statement regarding the Federation's
>>aims, origins and professed mandate to rule. Likewise Blake's
>>counter-ideology. We might have seen what the Federation did, but
>>we never really found out what it stood for.
>
>That, I imagine, will be part of Harriet's Platonic B7.
It will indeed, and it is what Kasabi is teaching her cadets, under cover
of Greek history. (Because my father once told me how his teachers, at an
English public school during the First World War, got round the ban on
discussing politics by doing it under cover of the Peloponnesian War.)
Kasabi lays particular emphasis on the way that the Delian League, a
federation of supposedly equal allies, developed into the Athenian empire,
whose "allies" were punished for attempting to leave. Servalan was greatly
inspired by the Melian Dialogue, though not in the way Kasabi hoped.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:06:22 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-ID: <004601be4090$9df99380$ca8edec2@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Stephen said
> A handsome young lieutenant is feeding her
>Ferrero Rocher chocolates.
'with zis amusing revenge scenario you are really spoiling us, ambassador'
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:51:44 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
Message-ID: <369F7221.58E9@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Iain Coleman wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Helen Krummenacker wrote:
>
> > What about fathers? They can be so emotionally abusive no amount of
> > motherly nurturing could counteract damage to a child's psyche. I'm
> > dealing right now with a friend with a father from Hell.
> > Furthermore, stay-at-home mothers would be less able to counteract the
> > damage done.
>
> Of course, the above statement would be just as true with the words
> "father" and "mother" swapped.
>
> Iain
>
> [just doing my bit for sexual equality]
Yes, Iain, but you must remember I was reacting the the _male_ who
declared that psychological problems all come from mommies not staying
home with their kids. Sounded like SupeStupid forgets there are two
parents involved.
Frankly, I don't think Servalan would be a nice woman to grow up
with.And what about Dayne? She'd force a bookish child to excercise and
make them resent ful. Etc, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:54:18 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Soolin
Message-ID: <369F72BB.7CE7@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Joanne MacQueen wrote:
>
> >Soolin had her parents killed,
>
> What an image, Avona! I knew she was ruthless, but...
>
> [<sotto voce> yes, I know <smile>]
::lopsided grin::
That's what I love about this list... one has to phrase things so
carefully.
--Avona
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:40 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Trolling 301: Comparative Anatomy
Message-ID: <002d01be40a3$42b41e60$181eac3e@default>
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Lisa wrote
>>I liked Neil's better. Proper trolling requires an artistic use of
>>understatement -- the offhand remark, the throwaway phrase. A sense of
>>subtlety. This one was about as subtle as Jarvik.
And Penny countered:
>I beg to differ. Unsubtlety is, in my opinion, one of the essential
>features of a Classic Troll. So is rampant misspelling, and on both
>these counts SupeStud00 has Neil beat hands down. Which reminds me, Neil
>did so spell "Delaney" correctly.
>Of course the true measure of a troll's success is the sheer amount of
>vitrolic verbiage incited: I invite anyone with even less of a life than
>me to do a comparative study on followups to the two posts in
>question...
Mine was a half-hearted troll at best because I didn't have an argument to
back it up. StupeSud did. And his/er misspelling wasn't rampant, it was
carefully considered for minimum annoyance (as opposed to the equally
considered maximum annoyance in the posts themselves). Besides, I came
clean after a day or two. At least an interesting thread emerged from my
pathetic effort.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:10:26 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ecology
Message-ID: <002c01be40a3$420c45a0$181eac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Helen Krummenacker wrote:
>Continuing ecologically... so, the large predators CHOOSE to become prey
>to viruses?
Huh?
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:44:38 PST
From: "Edith Spencer" <sueno45@hotmail.com>
To: avona@jps.net
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Message-ID: <19990115164438.5012.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello to all, and particularly Avona(where have you been?)
< Southern Accent> Now, y'all is weird. All dis talk here 'bout
determinism and volution and stuff. Why, looky here and learn yo'self
sumthin' good. Humans, physically, are among the weakest of der mammals
there. Yet they survived prdation by- a bigger, more wrinkled brain and
an opposable dumb. So tere. </southern accent>
Edith :)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:30:10 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tanith Lee and her Fascism?
Neil Faulkner wrote:
>
> ><< the powerful prey on the weak and the weak let them,>>
> >
> >The first law of nature. The weak are so because they choose to be.
>
> The first law of nature: the viability of a population of predators is
> determined by the availability of prey. Who, then, is truly the
weaker?
>
> Neil the Ecologist
Continuing ecologically... so, the large predators CHOOSE to become prey
to viruses?Neil Faulkner wrote:
>
> ><< the powerful prey on the weak and the weak let them,>>
> >
> >The first law of nature. The weak are so because they choose to be.
>
> The first law of nature: the viability of a population of predators is
> determined by the availability of prey. Who, then, is truly the
weaker?
>
> Neil the Ecologist
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:38:33 PST
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] B7 characters and dustbin lids
Message-ID: <19990115183833.24219.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Avona, in response to Iain:
>Yes, Iain, but you must remember I was reacting the the _male_ who
>declared that psychological problems all come from mommies not
>staying home with their kids. Sounded like SupeStupid forgets there
>are two parents involved.
Sounds like he was
(a) living in a Jane Austen novel;
(b) living in one of those dreadful 1950s US sitcoms;
(c) winding us all up (successfully) because he had nothing better to
do; or
(d) all of the above.
I can't be bothered to guess which.
>Frankly, I don't think Servalan would be a nice woman to grow up
>with.And what about Dayne? She'd force a bookish child to excercise
>and make them resent ful. Etc, etc.
Besides which, it's not a good idea for a child to bring up a child.
I'm not so sure about Servalan, though. Her meticulous nature might
well make her an excellent parent. If she decided she was going to
apply herself to the upbringing of her child (big if), I can see her
doing a far better job than any other character in B7. She would know
instinctively how much or how little time to devote to her offspring --
being a great admirer of strength, she would foster that quality above
all else, but she'd be too much of a perfectionist to neglect other
aspects of her kids' development. What's more, she'd be great with kids
of either sex. A male would be brought up to embody all the qualities
she admires in men (and our Servie doesn't lack experience in that
department); a female would be taught all of the cunning and
ruthlessness she used to get to the top.
Servalan would be able to do all this because Servalan understood a
principle that none of the others (save Orac) understood: "Delegation is
the art of leadership." That doesn't make her lazy, though. In my
book, that makes her resourceful. And I have to add that, while other
people are risking their lives and reputations doing her dirty work for
her, she's got better things to do than push a hoover around.
What about the others? Blake would be about the only other character
I'd trust to bring up kids -- in the right circumstances, I can see his
kiddies turning out to be historians or artists or Radio 3 presenters.
There seems to be quite a bit of the Renaissance man lurking in our Roj.
Avon: forget it. He wouldn't know one end of a child from the other.
Cheers,
-- Rob
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:06:57 -0800
From: "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] bringing up children
Message-Id: <199901151902.LAA01092@mercury.dnai.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Rob said,
>What about the others? Blake would be about the only other character
>I'd trust to bring up kids -- in the right circumstances, I can see his
>kiddies turning out to be historians or artists or Radio 3 presenters.
>There seems to be quite a bit of the Renaissance man lurking in our Roj.
Agreed, if he didn't need to dash off to save the world. What about Gan?
>Avon: forget it. He wouldn't know one end of a child from the other.
Don't be so sure.
--Ann
abasart@dnai.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:20:18 PST
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] bringing up children
Message-ID: <19990115192018.11917.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Agreed, if he didn't need to dash off to save the world. What about
>Gan?
Too much of a drip. They'd wind him round their little fingers.
-- Rob
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #29
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