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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 308
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Brentford
Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
[B7L] re: Lord of the Tariel Cells
[B7L] re: Avon/Servalan
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Re: [B7L] Redemption
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #305
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
[B7L] Avon/Servalan
Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
[B7L] Cally
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
RE: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:07:53 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Brentford
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1030200753-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Does anyone live near Brentford in Middlesex? I've a fan friend who wants to
get on line but isn't really sure how to go about it and has no on-line friends
to ask for advice. She has a PC, so I can't help her much with regard to e-mail
software as I use a different computer with an atypical browser.
Please drop me a line if you think you can help.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:00:54 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Message-ID: <000201bf231c$50a96b40$ea428cd4@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Andrew wrote:
>I seem to remember that Zen appeared to have access to Federation data
>bases. Answers like "Federation exploring party reported" and "according to
>Federation report" are what I'm thinking of. So what does this mean ?
>
>1) Earlier contact with Federation and Federation database downloaded at
>that time.
>2) Direct access to Federation data base, a little bit like Orac. ie Tariel
>cells (or equivalent) on an ongoing basis.
>any other possibilities ?
Yep. (3) Large quantities of data acquired by Blake (eg through captured
cypher machines) and downloaded into Zen's memory banks for future
reference.
>A side thought. If ALL Federation computers had Tariel cells, and Orac
could
>talk to them all, over any distance, why didn't Blake just ask Orac where
>Star One was ? Any why didn't Orac report the existence of the minefield,
>since each satellite would have a computer linked to the main Star One
>system ?
It all comes down to what Tariel cells actually are (something Nation
carefully omitted to mention). Orac might have access to a computer, but
not necessarily to all the data stored within it. The need for Blake to
acquire cypher machines after getting hold of Orac (eg in Killer) suggests
that Orac could not crack every computer it could access.
If Orac could access and control every Federation computer then it would
have made Blake virtually invincible. Pursuit ships could be ordered to
destroy themselves (or at least shut all their systems down) before they got
anywhere near Liberator. Or why stop there? Why not just shut down the
whole of Space Command at a stroke? Blake didn't try this, ergo Orac
couldn't do it, ergo ergo there were very real limits to Orac's capabilities
(not unrelated to maximising the amount of dramatic tension exploitable from
a given situation, in perfect correlation with Squirble's Law).
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:05:27 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: Lord of the Tariel Cells
Message-ID: <19991030.161548.9926.1.Rilliara@juno.com>
Hmm, I remember a scene I came up with for a story (one I couldn't use
since it would have either had a character acting on knowledge they
shouldn't reveal that early or else another character still being in a
certain pickle far too late in the plot), where someone got to make a
reference to The Hobbit.
The idea was for one character to know Avon had read Lord of the Rings, a
text banned for ages in the Federation, and make a roundabout reference
to 'the winning question in the riddle game' and wonder whether they
should ask Avon the same thing, since Avon would have had a certain plot
contrivance in his pocket.
The rest of the idea was to have Servalan overhear this and send the
usual poor minions scrambling for their lives to find out what a Hobbit
is.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:15:44 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: Avon/Servalan
Message-ID: <19991030.161549.9926.2.Rilliara@juno.com>
Just IMHO, but I think Avon's relationship with Servalan was complicated
at best. On one level, there was chemistry--a mutual, physical
attraction matched with a certain intellectual attraction--he admired her
ability and her mind. On another level, there was a moral revulsion. In
many ways, she was everything he despised. The problem being, Avon
didn't like to admit (even to himself) that he had a conscience or that
he could be repelled by the lack of one in another.
It was the opposite of his respect for Blake, who had a lot of qualities
he admired but would never admit he admired. I think this is one of the
reasons he always gave Jenna such a hard time about her admiration for
Blake. Jenna, in many ways, was as pragmatic as Avon. Her statement
about wanting to believe in Blake and his ideals hit the nail right on
the head for Avon, but he'd never acknowledge it. Because of this, if he
ever admitted Jenna followed Blake for reasons other than blind devotion
and possibly some romantic interest, he'd have to admit someone--whose
reasoning he'd have to respect--supported Blake and what he stood for.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:13:15 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <19991031081315.A4979@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Oct 30, 1999 at 02:08:55PM -0400, Harriet Monkhouse wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
> >I love the Lord of the Rings analogy. So Blakes 7
> >(Gandalf's 9 ?) is basically .... what would have
> >happened if they tried to use the ring (Orac).
>
> That's it! That's why they never use Orac to destroy the Federation,
> because they've all read Tolkien and know it's much too dangerous. Its
> strength is too great for anyone to wield at will, save only those that
> have already a great power of their own. As long as it is in the world it
> will be a danger even to the Wise. etc etc.
Personally I don't think it quite fits, really.
The Ring might have had a will of its own to corrupt those who wielded
it, but Orac's personality was such that made Orac really difficult to
wield, full stop. Wheras the Ring actually *wanted* its owners to
wield it, probably since the more they wielded it, the more power it
had over them.
Maybe *Ensor* read Tolkien and tried to make sure that Orac *wouldn't*
behave like the One Ring.... (-8
> By the way, might not Paul Darrow have made rather a good Boromir?
Nup.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:11:32 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Redemption
Message-ID: <00bf01bf2334$7eae7fe0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Judith wrote:
> I'm sitting here, burbling happily to myself with a great big goofy smile
all
> over my face.
>
> We've got another guest for Redemption - the only man to have worked on
both
> Blake's 7 AND Babylon 5.
>
> Ron Thornton - the man who built Scorpio, and later went on to found
Foundation
> Imaging which did such wonderful CGI work on Babylon 5.
>
> Excuse me while I go away and burble some more...
Excellent! Well done, Judith.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:16:52 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #305
Message-ID: <19991031001653.99098.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Avona wrote:
<Sally was talking about the bad taste Our Heros have in love, and
>mentioned Servalan as one of Avon's interests...>
No, no, not in *love* - I used the words 'appalling taste in
*women*' rather than *love* deliberately <g> Both Avon and
Tarrant found Servalan physically attractive (and Avon at least
found the complicated way her intellect worked intriguing as
well as loathsome).
Avon only ever *loved* one woman - Anna - and IMHO only loved two maybe
three people that we know of. Anna, Blake, and (possibly) the brother we see
in Spacefall.
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:36:32 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <19991031063632.54927.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hellen wrote:
<that they are not wandering through the Galaxy just
because the Liberator�s flexible artificial gravitation is preferable for
certain types of sexual amusement (sorry, just read a zine-story)>
Okay, tell. Which story???
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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:37:41 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <19991031063741.8495.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Avona wrote:
<I prefer the genuine female rebel leader to the one who's true
motives are unrevealed.>
True, but Avalon's *such* a drip (one for Pressure Point over
Project Avalon. KASABI!)
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:40:53 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon/Servalan
Message-ID: <19991031064057.87097.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Rob wrote: < In "Aftermath", she used the phrase, "We're very
alike, you and I" to brag about her own qualities.>
That's what I like about this scene (when very little about
the Avon/Servalan relationship interests me much). She's so
smugly confident she's got him pegged...and so utterly, wildly
wrong it's hysterical.
< I've always said that Tarrant would make a better partner for Servalan
anyway.>
Possibly...but there would have been as little point in trying
the let's-share-power gambit on the loyal-to-the-point-of-lunacy Tarrant as
on Avon. But Tarrant being both far more
straightforward and a product of the FSA regimen she knows,
she'd have probably been able to work out a more plausible plan
of attack. I'm not saying it would have succeeded, but I'd say
she had more chance of finding *some* of the right buttons to
push with Toothy.
Ellyne wrote:
<Just IMHO, but I think Avon's relationship with Servalan was
complicated at best. On one level, there was chemistry - a
mutual, physical attraction matched with a certain
intellectual attraction - he admired her ability and her mind.>
I agree with this, especially the intellectual bit - it's
primarily the complex if shark-like brain that intrigues him.
I see him as a man who actually isn't much interested in people
per se, or their characters; nearly all of the people he
develops any interest in *or* attraction for are people whose
mental intricacies divert or challenge him (Blake, Anna, Vila,
Servalan...Cally? All right, I said nearly all).
He loathes Servalan's methods, her morals and her morality (if
she has any) but a certain tainted attraction is there. After all
Avon never shows the slightest interest in 'nice' people anyway
- he seems to prefer a darker quality of personality (see the
list above - some good, some bad, none what you would call nice).
Servalan is a mental challenge as well as a physical threat (and
'tis no coincidence IMO that he only becomes even slightly
interested in her when his favourite mental game - trying to suss
out Fearless Leader's thinking - is taken away from him).
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:37:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1031083707-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Fri 29 Oct, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
> I take it the limiter idea comes from Gan's statement in Time Squad that
> sometimes Zen acts like he has a limiter; but that's simply an opinion of
> Gan's, and probably heavily coloured by his frame of reference. It's not
> a statement of fact. Apart from Gan's idea, there's really nothing in Zen's
> behaviour that couldn't be explained by some fairly sophisticated programming.
Zen has times when he tries to warn them and is unable to do so. Something is
restricting him. It doesn't really matter whether the limiter is a physical
device or a form of software - its function is the same.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:45:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1031084549-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 28 Oct, Andrew Ellis wrote:
> Judith said...
>
> >He also has no difficulty in accepting an instruction to go to Cygnus
> Alpha,
> >which suggests familiarity with Earth naming conventions and maps. Though
> it's
> >possible that he got the general location from Jenna, would she have had
> the
> >co-ordinates memorised?
>
>
> I seem to remember that Zen appeared to have access to Federation data
> bases. Answers like "Federation exploring party reported" and "according to
> Federation report" are what I'm thinking of. So what does this mean ?
Which episodes are you thinking of? I do agree that Zen might have had access
to anything broadcast as public information/propaganda.
>
> p.s.
> A side thought. If ALL Federation computers had Tariel cells, and Orac could
> talk to them all, over any distance, why didn't Blake just ask Orac where
> Star One was ? Any why didn't Orac report the existence of the minefield,
> since each satellite would have a computer linked to the main Star One
> system ?
a passing thought. Central control was moved '30 years ago' (though there is
good evidence to suggest that travis was lying when he said that). If Ensor
developed Tariel cells around 30 years ago, did Star One actually use tariel
cells?
Actually, even if it moved much later (as suggested by Provine, Docholli still
being on the run and Lureena's age and former lover) it still might not have
been tariel based. Large data base systems are sometimes very reuctant to
upgrade. Hands up all those who thought Cobol would be extinct by now...
JUdith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:53:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Cally
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1031095350-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Just came across this while checking new references for the Sevencyclpeadia.
TARRANT: Look, without those crystals, the main blasters are useless.
Do you like being helpless, Cally?
CALLY: I don't know. I've never tried it.
I think that has to be one of Cally's best lines ever.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 03:11:42 PST
From: "Hellen Paskaleva" <hellen_pas@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <19991031111142.22061.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
><that they are not wandering through the Galaxy just
>because the Liberator�s flexible artificial gravitation is preferable for
>certain types of sexual amusement (sorry, just read a zine-story)>
>
>Okay, tell. Which story???
Erm... One, appropriate for the other list.
Hellen
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:04:33 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <199910311004_MC2-8B1E-B2DA@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Andrew wrote:
>I thought Tarrant for Boromir, 'cause he tries to usurp
>the leading role without having the ability or the right.
Think he's more of a Faramir. I was really thinking actors more than
characters, and Steven's still young enough to do Faramir, though Paul's a
bit old for Boromir. In time, he might make an exciting Denethor, though.
And Michael Keating would be good as one of the hobbits. I haven't grasped
much of the current LoR film casting except Liv Tyler as one of any number
of the females. A more encouraging rumour suggested Cate Blanchett is
going to be Galadriel. If Jan Chappell were younger, I'd be plugging her
for Eowyn.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:39:56 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <002601bf23b6$32c87040$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Harriet wrote:
> I haven't grasped
> much of the current LoR film casting except Liv Tyler as one of any number
> of the females.
As Arwen. Liv Tyler was excellent in 'Cookie's Fortune'.
> A more encouraging rumour suggested Cate Blanchett is
> going to be Galadriel.
Cate Blanchett has indeed been cast as Galadriel. Full current cast list at:
http://fandom.com/ringbearer/celebrity.asp
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:40:39 PST
From: "Hellen Paskaleva" <hellen_pas@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Message-ID: <19991031154040.26356.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Me, then Jacqueline:
>>...probably he is able to reffere to himself as an
>>personality only under terminal circumstances?
>
>Possibly, but I think he was just trying to be a good computer and dropped
>that behaviour only under great stress.
That's even better! I prefer to consider Zen as an person, than just a
machine and like to think, that he had *pretended* to be "a good computer"
instead of personality - for passenger's convenience.
Hellen
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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:10:17 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <000401bf23ce$bc924180$e317ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Una wrote:
>What I take from 'Rumours' isn't the suffering Avon stuff so much anymore
>(honest!). 'Rumours' seems to be about the personal price that people have
>to pay for living within the Federation. It takes the story of a love
>affair, and shows how it was twisted by the society in which it took place.
Someone in the Horizon Letterzine (possibly either Sondra Sweigman or Micky
Dupree, but equally possibly neither of those because I'm way too lazy to
read a stack of back issues to check) suggested that the primary theme of
Rumours was the futility of revenge. There's Avon's attempt to avenge Anna,
who isn't really dead, which is the main thread, but there's also Shrinker's
references to the rebels kicking corpses around for the hell of it. We
could even infer that revenge might be Anna's prime motivation for deposing
Servalan - she certainly has a jaundiced attitude to La Presidenta.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:36:25 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <000201bf23ce$b964f660$e317ac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Harriet wrote
>By the way, might not Paul Darrow have made rather a good Boromir?
When B7 was originally broadcast, I saw him more as Aragorn, only with long
hair as per the Jimmy Cauty poster (aka The Best LotR Poster In The World
... ever).
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:05:01 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <005001bf23e3$9c108560$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Neil wrote:
> We could even infer that revenge might be Anna's prime motivation for
deposing
> Servalan - she certainly has a jaundiced attitude to La Presidenta.
It certainly adds an extra frisson to all their scenes together.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:14:00 -0000
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Message-ID: <016801bf23ef$822e6de0$d72f63c3@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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I wrote:
>>I seem to remember that Zen appeared to have access to Federation data
>>bases. Answers like "Federation exploring party reported" and "according
to
>>Federation report" are what I'm thinking of. So what does this mean ?
>>
>>1) Earlier contact with Federation and Federation database downloaded at
>>that time.
>>2) Direct access to Federation data base, a little bit like Orac. ie
Tariel
>>cells (or equivalent) on an ongoing basis.
>>any other possibilities ?
Niel said
>Yep. (3) Large quantities of data acquired by Blake (eg through captured
>cypher machines) and downloaded into Zen's memory banks for future
>reference.
Works fine for me as well except for the Cygnus Alpha bit, but that's
covered elsewhere.
I also asked
>> why didn't Blake just ask Orac where
>>Star One was ?
to which Niel said
>The need for Blake to
>acquire cypher machines after getting hold of Orac (eg in Killer) suggests
>that Orac could not crack every computer it could access.
which kind of suggests that Orac couldn't break through passwords (or
firewalls in 1990's techno speak), except where the action of Squirbles law
allows them to be bypassed. i.e. the finding out information quickly is
vital to avoid wasting air time.
Andrew
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #308
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