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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 62
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (18), this time by Penny
Re: [B7L] corgi liberator
[B7L] Flat Robin (19), by Arkaroo Again
Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
[B7L] Horizon - cast news
[B7L] Guards Guards Horizon stuff
[B7L] Horizon Charity Auction
[B7L] Re: corgi Liberator
Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
RE: [B7L] Fannishness
RE: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline
RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Re: re [B7L] Flat Robin
Re: re [B7L] Flat Robin
Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
[B7L] Flat Robin 20
Re: [B7L] Fannishness
Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
[B7L] Flat Robin 21
Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Re: [B7L] Fannishness
Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:05:31 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: arkaroo@hotmail.com, egomoo@geocities.com
Subject: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (18), this time by Penny
Message-ID: <19990215080535.6312.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Story idea by Jacqueline.
------
>"Eel-Tree Street, eh?" said Vila, looking along the thoroughfare.
>"Sounds uneventful enough. Let's get going."
***
"Well," Suzanne said, strolling up Tarnation Boulevard in the warm
afternoon sun. "I'd say we've pretty much burnt our bridges behind
us..."
"Figuratively, for a change," replied Lynnette. "I must say, that was
the best blood I've drunk in a while. I feel invigorated."
"We must remember the name of that restaurant," said Suzanne. "after
all, we're *not* planning on leaving this pla-- this world, are we?"
"Only feet first," Lynnette answered.
"Well then, I suppose we'd better look for a new gig," Suzanne said
pragmatically. She pried off her black rubber hat with an audible *pop*
and threw it disdainfully into the gutter, where it immediately became
the coveted prize in a long and deadly rat war. Lynnette touched hers
thoughtfully, and eventually pulled it off and tucked it under her arm.
Rounding the corner at Eel Tree Lane, destination unknown, they came
face to face with three-fifths of their former purpose in life, dragging
one of the locals by the heels.
"Kkkkk," said Lynnette, drawing her weapon from its holster with inhuman
speed. Suzanne slapped it aside just as fast, and it discharged
harmlessly into the wheel of a passing fruit cart. "Sedition," Lynnette
screamed, and prepared to summarily execute Suzanne while citrus fruit
rolled comically all round her jackboots. "Feet first, Lynnette, feet
first!" Suzanne hissed.
"Freeze," said the man -- not the one who had curled up in a perfect
ball.
"Drop your weapons," said the woman. Suzanne did, and kicked Lynnette in
the ankle several times until she did as well. "I'd kill you right now,
except that I can't be absolutely sure you are what I think you are."
One rarely encountered mutoids strolling down a sunny avenue,
bare-headed and calling each other 'Lynnette'. But then, one was rarely
in Ankh-Morpork. "So, what are you?"
"We're..." Suzanne hesitated, unable to summon any phrase to mind but
'Officers of the Federation! Surrender or die, rebel scum!'
"Fruit...sellers," said Lynnette, bending down slowly and carefully to
pick up a lemon.
"Fruit. Yum yum," Suzanne agreed. "Very competitive industry," she
elaborated, nodding toward the upended fruit cart beside them.
Avon and Jenna looked at each other quizzically. Carefully, and without
lowering their weapons, they each picked up one of Rincewind's ankles.
Carefully, and keeping their eyes fixed unblinking on the ghastly
fruit-sellers, they each dug a toe into one of Vila's kidneys.
"Well, that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be," he said,
beginning to uncurl. "The anticipation was the worst part, really, thank
you Mister Death." He got to his feet and looked down. "Where's my
corpse?"
"We'll just be...moving along," said Avon, and he and Jenna walked
slowly and cautiously forward, keeping their weapons trained on the
fruit-sellers as long as they could see them through the crowd. Vila
meandered close behind them, remarking how much lighter he felt now he
was dead and how the pain behind his eyes had finally faded. And Jenna
allowed as how, oddly enough, the pain in *front* of hers *hadn't*, and
with that they disappeared from view.
"Yum yum, fruit," Lynnette ventured at length, and looked down at the
gun on the cobblestones in front of her. "Should this be our new gig,
then?"
"I think," Suzanne ventured, stooping to take up her weapon, "we might
fare better in a slightly more structured environment. And--" She
scooped up a lime as she rose, tossed it high into the air, and atomized
it with an over-the-shoulder shot. "--we really ought to consider a
career in our field of expertise."
Lynnette nodded in agreement and tossed aside the lemon she had been
affecting. It smashed the window beside her, and before the shards had
landed there was someone behind her, holding a knife to her throat. "I
hope you're planning to pay for that," someone said. "Awk," someone
continued, and the knife clattered to the cobblestones.
"Maybe we can cut a deal," said Suzanne.
Lynnette looked up at the legend over the doorway of the building that
the someone had come out of. 'GVILD OF ASSASSINS', it read.
"Yes," Lynnette said, "maybe we can."
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:41:18 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] corgi liberator
Message-ID: <19990215084118.19581.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>Blake leaves the Liberator in Jenna's hands, and she takes in to a
>spaceship body shop for new paint and detailing. Avon gets mad
>because he wasn't asked for input, or else it would be silver with
>black leather for the prongs and the bit around the green ball.
He didn't care for her outfitting the interior all red shag carpetting
and bongo-balls either, as I recall. Picky picky.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:55:15 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: arkaroo@hotmail.com, egomoo@geocities.com
Subject: [B7L] Flat Robin (19), by Arkaroo Again
Message-ID: <19990215085521.25591.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Brought to You by Arkaroo, the Philip K. Dick of Fa-a-anfick!
------
>"Maybe we can cut a deal," said Suzanne.
>
>Lynnette looked up at the legend over the doorway of the building
>that the someone had come out of. 'GVILD OF ASSASSINS', it read.
>
>"Yes," Lynnette said, "maybe we can."
***
Jenna sheathed her weapon slowly and turned to Avon. `Didn't those
Fruit-vendors have a rather... militaristic bearing? They seemed very
skittish.'
`Very competitive business, fruit-vending,' said Vila, looking behind
him nervously. `I had an uncle who sold cantaloupe by the side of the
road, off the back of a truck. Lowered the rate of honey-dews three
cents below the going rate and *pow*, next thing you know, I was unable
to look at a coconut for eight years without screaming. Mind you, the
coconut fear probably had more to do with that monkey incident when I
was five...'
Avon raised his cosh high above Vila's head, but was restrained from his
blow by Jenna's frantic tackle.
`...and after all that, you'd think people'd learn about fruit, wouldn't
you? That's why I never touch the stuff. Plus, it's really hard to get
*fresh* produce when you're whipping about the cosmos in an alien-made
space-vehicle, I suppose.' Vila looked thoughtful. `You know...'
Jenna spoke quickly. `Look, there's the tavern the wizard was talking
about. We should cut down this alley and get into it through the rear
entrance,' she said pointing toward the darkened mouth of an alley.
Their red-robed luggage gently whimpering, the party walked into the
darkness.
The alley was, disappointingly, not really all that filthy. After all,
in Ankh-Morpork the streets themselves had reached maximum saturation
levels with regards to garbage; it stood to reason that, since the
alleyways couldn't be any dirtier, they should therefore be cleaner than
the streets. Neat rows of refuse bins were stacked behind the service
entrances for the various local businesses; the shattered beer bottles
and rusted tins had been swept into neat little heaps here and there.
`Seems nice enough. Where's that door?' asked Avon, peering through the
dimness around him.
>From behind them came a quiet, but no less bowel-loosening for its lack
of decibels, cough. Jenna and Vila quickly shuffled in front of the
prone wizard, attempting to hide his twitching form, while Avon turned
around to confront the cougher with a pleasant smile on his face.
Standing near the mouth of the alleyway through were two plainclothes
policemen, a tall human and an even taller troll. Even without knowing
the uniforms of the local constabulary, cops the world around have a
very distinctive vibe, which was currently making Vila wish he'd taken
Death up on that offer.
Vila looked up at the human officer, sweat running down his face.
`Evening, officer,' he giggled. `Nice time to walk around the streets in
a manner both carefree and innocent, don't you think?'
`You got license?' rumbled the Troll, aiming an enormous crossbow at the
cowed humans.
Avon rifled through the pockets of his trousers. `All I have on me is
this Aldebaranian Adult Novelty (unused, heh-heh) and this... tin of
sardines. I must have taken these and left my license in the
refrigerator... that is, in the ice-box. Very silly of me.'
`You know what you've done wrong?' asked the human policeman kindly. His
sparkling badge read `Captain Carrot'.
`Um. Failure to signal when entering an unmarked...' Avon looked around
him. `...oubliette?'
Carrot pointed to the groaning form ineptly concealed behind Vila and
Jenna's legs. `Hauling about an unconscious wizard without a proper
Abduction License. Very sticky business, that; the Abductor's Guild
never fails to prosecute.'
`Well, that's the misunderstanding, you see. That's not a wizard. It's a
mannequin,' Avon replied, staring at the enormous crossbow the
silicon-based policeman carried.
Rincewind groaned loudly.
`I mean, it's my life-sized ventriloquism dummy,' Avon said quickly.
`You know, drink a glass of water, large moustache, a few
"wooden-headed" jokes, all that?'
Carrot looked impressed. `Really? Would you mind demonstrating that? I
must admit, I haven't seen a good ventriloquism act since the Dwarf
Circus came around to the Station last Hogswatch Night.'
Avon looked momentarily stunned. `Of... course I wouldn't mind.'
Grunting with effort, he sat down on a crate and perched the
semi-conscious form of Rincewind on his lap. `All right, wizard, act
like a dummy or I'll stick this blaster so far up your Ankh-Morpork that
even the Andromedans can't find it. Got it?' he whispered through
clenched teeth.
`Where's my sack?' cried Rincewind, clawing at his underwear. His bag of
copper coins had disappeared somewhere in the long, bumpy journey.
`I said, *got it*?' asked Avon again, prodding more forcefully. This
horrible reminder of his public-school days spurred Rincewind into
greater lucidity. Clearing his throat, he turned to Avon. `I say, Mr.
Leather-Pants, how is a Morpork like a writing-desk?'
Avon stared at the wizard on his lap. `What?'
`I said...'
`I heard what you said, you little bugger. What kind of joke is that?'
hissed Avon.
`It's more of a riddle than a joke, really,' replied Rincewind.
`Nobody goes for riddles in a ventriloquism act, do they?'
`Perhaps I'm redefining the genre.'
`We... are *not*... going to start a new ventriloquism movement... with
two large, well-armed officers-of-the-law in the audience, are we?'
asked Avon, frantically stabbing Rincewind in the kidneys with his
sidearm.
Rincewind winced. `Haha, quite so. Ahem... Knock knock.'
`Who's there?' asked Avon, tendons bulging out of his neck.
`Morpork,' replied Rincewind, smirking.
`Morpork who?'
`Morpork, less beans. Get it?' snickered Rincewind. Avon turned a
ghastly shade of blue.
`Ha. Ha. Ha. Now,' he said to the officers, `Please take notice of how I
manage to make the *dummy* speak while I hold him upside down in this
rainbarrel.'
`What? What rain... Bluh! Bubbluh buh buhduh! Bluuuuh!'
The officers turned to each other. `They seem like legitimate
performers,' said Captain Carrot to the troll. `Very sophomoric humor,
ventriloquism.'
`I tink de was funny.'
`I didn't say they weren't,' Carrot replied. Turned to the fearful
group, Carrot clapped energetically. `Very well done. Very good. I think
we can safely let you go on your way, now.'
Nodding frantically, Avon plucked the sopping wizard from the barrel and
threw him over his shoulder. Herding Jenna and Vila in front of him,
Avon entered the `Mended Drum' under the watchful eyes of the police.
Rincewind, being the last to be hauled through the door, grabbed onto
the lintel and turned to the policemen. 'Carrot, you idiot,' he hissed.
'These people are lunatics! They've abducted me out of a pleasant drunk
into an unpleasant sobriety! Alert the authorities!'
Carrot smiled. `You know, you do a very good Rincewind. If I didn't know
that he was wanted on three counts of attempted blackmail and one of
`impersonating a proper wizard' I'd swear you were him.'
Rincewind stared up at Carrot with horror. `Ah... ah... Got you! Hahaha,
I'm just a silly old lump of wood, probably got termites, going through
life with someone's hand up my... whoops!' And with that, he was pulled
through the doorway.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:02:31 +0200
From: "422ami" <422ami@nt52.parliament.bg>
To: "Don Trower" <gammablue@hotmail.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-Id: <199902150916.KAA02586@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The pronouns, obviously, depend on point of view. Because in my language
(that once-mentioned Bulgarian) as Zen, so Liberator, are "He". Actually,
when I start to read scripts of the episodes, I was strongly surprised to
find out what Blake means, telling Jenna "Get HER on manual!"
But, emotionally, I always think about Zen as for "he". And as I don't like
much Orac, he is "it" for me.
Regards, The Bulgarian Hellen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:44:38 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <19990215094439.3285.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Hellen the Bulgarian said:
>The pronouns, obviously, depend on point of view. Because in my
>language (that once-mentioned Bulgarian) as Zen, so Liberator, are
>"He". Actually, when I start to read scripts of the episodes, I was
>strongly surprised to find out what Blake means, telling Jenna "Get
>HER on manual!"
Applying feminine pronouns to vehicles is, if I'm not mistaken, the
*only* surviving example of "gender" of that sort in the english
language.
>But, emotionally, I always think about Zen as for "he". And as I
>don't like much Orac, he is "it" for me.
I *think* of them both as "he" because they have male voices. But, ahem,
*logically*, Captain, they're both "it"s.
--Penny the Reasonable
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:38:09 -0000
From: Robinson Paula <Paula.Robinson@RCN.ORG.UK>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
"'space-city@world.std.com'" <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Horizon - cast news
Message-ID: <E9263E031959D211B5A80008C71E93C35BBE76@RCN-LONDON5>
Content-Type: text/plain
I'm just quickly posting three Horizon newsy-things, before disappearing
back into lurkdom... sorry if any of this repeats what has already been said
by others, I haven't been keeping up recently due to RL:
JAN CHAPPELL:
Jan is appearing as WPC Holden in the play The Colour of
Justice. After a sellout run at the Tricycle Theatre, Kilburn, the play can
be seen 15/28 Feb 99 at the Theatre Royal, Gerry Raffles Square, Stratford
East, London E15 1BN (BO 0181 534 0310) and then 1/13 March 99 at the
Victoria Palace Theatre, Victoria St, London SW1E 5EA (BO 0171 834 1317).
The play is a dramatic reconstruction of the major events of the Stephen
Lawrence enquiry and has attracted much media interest and had excellent
reviews. See this if you can! The play is also being televised for
broadcast early in 99.
JOSETTE SIMON:
Josette is returning to the RSC for
the 1999 summer season as Titania in A Midsummer Night's Dream at the Royal
Shakespeare Theatre, Stratford on Avon (BO 01789 295 623). Previews from 19
March 99, opening in Rep 25 March 99.
GLYNIS BARBER:
Glynis will appear in
an episode of THE BILL titled 'Sleeping with the Enemy', playing Victoria
Smith on 25th February 99.
Paula
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:39:47 -0000
From: Robinson Paula <Paula.Robinson@RCN.ORG.UK>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
"'space-city@world.std.com'" <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Guards Guards Horizon stuff
Message-ID: <E9263E031959D211B5A80008C71E93C35BBE77@RCN-LONDON5>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
GUARDS! GUARDS! MERCHANDISE - for those of you unable to get to see the
show, you can console yourself with the fabulous glossy full colour SOUVENIR
BROCHURE, containing gorgeous photos of Paul and the rest of the cast on and
behind stage, and information on the staging of the show, backstage gossip,
etc. Horizon has acquired a supply at a discount price of �3.75 (normally
�4.50 at the theatres) plus p&p 50p (UK); �1 (Eur); �1.50 (US/Can); �1.75
(Aus/NZ). Also available are the official tour T-shirts, which are red with
white lettering (front says "I've seen the Dragons of Ankh-Morpork" and back
says "Terry Pratchett's GUARDS! GUARDS! - the Discworld Live on Stage.")
Sizes are M, L, XL, XXL and normally cost �10 but from Horizon only �8.50
(and that's Cutting-Our-Own-Throats!!) plus p&p of �1 (UK); �1.75 (Eur); �3
(US/Can); �3.20 (Aus/NZ). If you buy Both Together, p&p is �1.25 (UK);
�2.25 (Eur); �4 (US/Can); �4.50 (Aus/NZ). Cheques for all GG merchandise
should be payable to HORIZON and sent to Diane Gies, 18 Holt Road, North
Wembley, Middx. HAO 3PS. (Limited availability)
Paula
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:40:52 -0000
From: Robinson Paula <Paula.Robinson@RCN.ORG.UK>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
"'space-city@world.std.com'" <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Horizon Charity Auction
Message-ID: <E9263E031959D211B5A80008C71E93C35BBE78@RCN-LONDON5>
Content-Type: text/plain
HORIZON CHARITY AUCTION 1999
Check out the latest Horizon Charity Auction on the horizon website
(http://www.horizon.org.uk - news - club news) for the latest bids.
Auction is open to non-members also, and full info & bidding instructions
are on the Horizon website in the club news section (Files named AUCTION and
AUCTION BIDS) 15 marvellous items up for grabs
1) A copy of the special Horizon Charity Audio Tape featuring poetry,
stories, jokes & humorous adaptations of B7 scripts all read by Gareth
Thomas, Paul Darrow, Michael Keating, Jan Chappell, David Jackson, Peter
Tuddenham, Jacqueline Pearce and Brian Croucher
2) Paperbacks of Under Milk Wood, How Green was my Valley, Juggernaut and
The Citadel (special edition -colour photo of Gareth on the back) all signed
by Gareth Thomas
3) X-Files Movie Press Pack - includes Press Pass & full colour brochure.
Only issued at press launch of X-Files: The Movie, not on sale to the
general public.
4) B7 Annual 1981 (with 3rd season crew publicity photos on covers) signed
by Michael K, Gareth T
5) Star Maidens Annual - signed by Gareth Thomas
6) Giant (30"x24") Photo Poster of Radio Times original Publicity Photo,
signed by Gareth Thomas, Michael Keating, Paul Darrow
7) FIRST EDITION paperbacks BLAKE'S SEVEN and PROJECT AVALON by Trevor Hoyle
(both with front cover colour photo) signed by Gareth T, Michael K,
Jacqueline P
8) Paperback of out-of-print novel Avon: A Terrible Aspect, signed (and
reviewed!!) by Gareth T., Michael K, Jacqueline P
9) Blake's 7 BBC Video original artwork, 21"x12" - from Tape 2: Cygnus
Alpha/Time Squad Signed by artist Barry Jones, + Michael Keating & Paul
Darrow
10) Blake's 7 BBC Video original artwork 21"x12" - from Tape 11:
Hostage/Countdown Signed by artist Barry Jones, + Michael Keating & Paul
Darrow
11) Blake's 7 BBC Video original artwork 21"x12" - from Tape 14:
Aftermath/Powerplay Signed by artist Barry Jones + Michael Keating and Paul
Darrow
12) Blake's 7 BBC Video original artwork 21"x12" - from Tape 25: Gold/Orbit
Signed by artist Barry Jones, Michael Keating and Paul Darrow
13) Full set of ORIGINAL (not photo copied) Horizon Newsletters from No. 1
to No. 38. (except for issue 14, photo copy only!)
14) Paperback novel of the film The Raging Moon, signed by Paul Darrow
15) Original script of the 2nd B7 Radio play - The Syndeton Experiment,
signed by the cast.
Closing Date 20 February 99 - BID NOW!!!
Paula
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:18:43 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: corgi Liberator
Message-ID: <199902150619_MC2-6A84-B071@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Steve wrote:
>I bought the normal looking white Corgi Liberator a couple of years ago.
>Today, however, I picked up another one for a fiver at an SF fair. This,
>however, is mostly silver with yellow plastic for the prongs and the bit
>around the green ball. Does anyone know anything about this variation?
Mine looked like that when I got it in about 1981. I painted it white
instead. Vague notion someone said the silver ones were more valuable?
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:00:54 +0100 (MET)
From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@pampus.gns.getronics.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (mailing list)
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-Id: <199902151200.NAA13397@pampus.gns.getronics.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> >But, emotionally, I always think about Zen as for "he". And as I
> >don't like much Orac, he is "it" for me.
>
> I *think* of them both as "he" because they have male voices. But, ahem,
> *logically*, Captain, they're both "it"s.
>
> --Penny the Reasonable
>
We accept ...
Jeroen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:10:46 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Fannishness
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB12@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Neil wrote:
> Actually your approach to fannishness is what I would describe as normal
> (though I prefer to say 'typical', since 'normal' is a rather dodgy word
> to
> use in almost any context).
>
Thank you. And no, I've never met anyone who could be described as 'normal'
either. Nor would I want to. It sounds terribly boring.
> >I'm more than happy to tell people how I feel about things, but
> >only when the person I'm talking to is prepared to take me seriously. And
> >that includes my choice not to take something seriously, or do something
> >just because I feel like it, without thinking it through.
>
>
> That sounds a bit irresponsible, actually:)
>
It sure does. And that's my idea of having fun :-).
> >Nothing is fun if that's the way you look at things
>
> A conclusion I reached years ago. Or rather, lots of things are fun, but
> nothing is _simply_ fun and nothing else. It's 'fun, because...'. It's
> the
> 'because' that interests me. Unearthing the 'because' can be... well,
> fun,
> actually.
>
Hmm, if you look at it that way..... Well, it's fun because I say so. And so
does Penny. And you wouldn't want to contradict her, now would you?
> >You're quite welcome to whatever kind of fun you like best but I reserve
> the
> >right to enjoy myself in my own way.
>
>
> Not that I recall trying to deny you that right. At least your idea of
> fun
> doesn't extend to beating people up for being black/gay/whatever, or
> setting
> dogs on innocent animals. If it was in my power I'd more than happily
> deny
> anyone the right to enjoy themselves in _that_ way.
>
We are in perfect agreement here. Although I would seriously consider
setting those dogs on those people (ok, not really, but a girl can dream,
can't she?). Like I said earlier in response to a posting from Avona,
sometimes my self-defense mode kicks in just a little too easily. And you
have to admit, it did look like you were treating my response as invalid,
just because I didn't feel like taking fanfic seriously.
> FWIW, I'm a veggie too.
>
Then you are definitely qualified to add a part to the Flat Robin. So start
writing already.
> Trip-trap trip-trap trip-trap GULP.
>
Very unserious. There may be hope for you yet :-).
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:20:39 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB13@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Penny said:
> >"I WILL LEAVE A NOTE."
> >
> >"A note?"
> >
> >"SAYING THAT YOU WILL BE BACK SHORTLY."
> >
> >"I will? I mean, that's not usually what happens, is it?"
>
> Tres Pratchettesque, and Vilaesque as well.
>
Yes, Vila can fit in on the discworld without changing a bit.
> >"Yes, Miss Weatherwax."
>
> Blake's Disciplining continues apace -- give'm the cane, Esme!
>
Uhm, I don't think we can do that on this list.
> >Apparently this cell was to be filled with an exotic creature
> >known as a tarriel.
>
> The mind reels at the possibilities.
>
Well, how else is Hex going to meet Orac and Zen? I really don't feel we
could properly end this story without those three having contact with each
other at least once.
> >[1] Well, he had been drinking, and they never seemed to do this on the
> >Liberator, so finding a handy bush when they were on a planet must have
> been
> >a regular practice.
>
> But then how do you explain the mighty urine-glacier on her prow?
>
Uhhh, I forgot about that, actually. Oh, wait, we're springboarding here.
Let's see, the previous owners had been really sloppy in their maintenance,
and by the time Blake & co. found the Liberator, even the self repair
systems wouldn't touch the plumbing anymore. So that urine-glacier was there
already. Okay?
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:34:25 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB14@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Penny, trying to be reasonable, said:
> I *think* of them both as "he" because they have male voices. But, ahem,
> *logically*, Captain, they're both "it"s.
>
We had a discussion about that on this list last year, but I don't think we
reached a final conclusion on that (big surprise). I still think Zen and
Orac are intelligent beings, but since neither can have kiddies, we can't
tell what gender they are. So even if they are persons instead of things, I
still think they can best be called "it". BTW, I also think of them as "he",
because of the voices.
Jacqueline
Ps.: Penny, I've just read about the mutoids short career in selling
vegetables. LOL!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:23:08 PST
From: "Don Trower" <gammablue@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <19990215132308.15303.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
From an off-list mail on this topic...
>>So what is it then? First you say that Zen is an it and later you
>>think Zen can develop a personality?
>>I still feel Zen as a he or at least a person with a stubborn
>>personality.
>>ORAC however is a machine! We can agree on that
Exactly my point, Zen is an it, it was build as an it and was an it
working for "The System". However when it was working with Blake and Co.
it developed a personality based on theirs, this is the only way that I
see to explain why Zen seems to develop a personality when it uses tone
of voice to express "dispair", for want of a better word, when Blake
reels off a list of orders during one of the series two episodes.
>In response to Jacqueline
>I still think Zen and Orac are intelligent beings, but since neither
>can have kiddies, we can't tell what gender they are. So even if they
>are persons instead of things, I still think they can best be called
>"it". BTW, I also think of them as "he", because of the voices.
The repair circuits that Zen refers to from time to time could build a
new machine, assuming that Zen is in direct control of these circuits
could this not been seen as a parenting function ? If Zen was limited by
The System that build it not to create by itself perhaps Orac could
design something, so each would share in the parenting process ?
Don.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:35:45 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB16@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Don said:
> The repair circuits that Zen refers to from time to time could build a
> new machine, assuming that Zen is in direct control of these circuits
> could this not been seen as a parenting function ? If Zen was limited by
> The System that build it not to create by itself perhaps Orac could
> design something, so each would share in the parenting process ?
>
Good point. And on the other list, they would no doubt turn this into a
slash story :-).
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:37:11 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Flat Robin
Message-ID: <d6d29221.36c85b47@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/12/99 8:51:53 PM Mountain Standard Time,
N.Faulkner@tesco.net writes:
<< Where the +AD0APQA9AD0- is everybody? Any more of this inertia and I'll
have to
start trolling... >>
Oh yes, please -- this story needs some more trolls, since Our Heroes lost
theirs at the quarry.
Nina M.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:37:10 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Flat Robin
Message-ID: <ae7a6821.36c85b46@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/12/99 8:51:53 PM Mountain Standard Time,
N.Faulkner@tesco.net writes:
<< Where the +AD0APQA9AD0- is everybody? Any more of this inertia and I'll
have to
start trolling... >>
Oh yes, please -- this story needs some more trolls, since Our Heroes lost
theirs at the quarry.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:35:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0215163539-9eeRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 15 Feb, Don Trower wrote:
> Sorry to disagree, but I feel I must. Although I like both the computer
> characaters Zen and Orac both are "it's" although for different reasons.
> Zen is an alien computer control system, the culture that created it was
> one which lacked human sentiments they were pure tech.
The Altas were, as their name implies, altered human beings. Most members of
that society were human. I don't see a computer with human sentiments as
impossible.
However, it is the fact that Zen was fitted with a limiter (I think the
reference is in Time Squad) that convinces me. Why the need to limit Zen,
unless he was capable of independent thought.
Indeed, Zen finally overcame the programing in 'Terminal'. Why should a machine
that had no self-awareness suddenly use the word 'I'? (It could have been the
effect of being with Blake and co, but I like to think it was the emergence of
something that had been forcibly buried by the Altas.)
> There was no need or benifit for for the computer to do anything more than
> it's job, it WAS a machine. However, after Blake and co. boarded the ship and
> over came Zen's security measures the crew treated Zen as a person, Zen
> learnt from them, probably part of it's programing. To ease their use of the
> ship the control system adapted to them, so in this new enviroment I can see
> Zen develope a personality, based on what the crew thought a powerful control
> system should be. As for Orac, Ensor (spelling?) treated Orac as a machine -
> an it, however did maintain his manners as seen just before his death.
I rather think Ensor imprinted some of his own personality into Orac.
Deliberately. Nothing else really accounts for Orac having his speech
patterns/manners. After all, simple association woud hhave given as much
contact with Ensor jnr, but Orac was nothing like him at all.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:10:26 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: "'Blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Flat Robin 20
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB17@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Some of you may recognize the exchange between the librarian, Avon and
Rincewind. I couldn't help myself here, the moment I started writing some
small parts of it, I just knew I had to get it into this Flat Robin.
***
Avon, Jenna, Vila and Rincewind followed the librarian into the Mended Drum.
Before they had taken three steps, he turned around and told them: "Ooook".
"What?" asked Avon.
"You're supposed to wait at the bar while he goes to talk to some people he
knows." Supplied Rincewind. "He will try to get a digging crew for you and
see if he can't threaten some wizards into cooperating. He doesn't think the
ones that are here now will do you much good, though. Most of them are
students."
Avon arched his brow. "You got all of that out of one Oooook?"
"Actually, he said Ooook" Rincewind corrected him, "And I've been his
assistant for a while."
"I see", said Avon "let's go wait by the bar, then."
"Great idea" enthused Vila "let's go see if they have some more of that
appley stuff."
"I said wait by the bar, not drink ourselves into a stupor."
"Why not?" asked Rincewind, "sounds like a jolly good idea to me."
Avon took each of them by an ear and dragged them with him. Jenna followed
with a sardonic look on her face. "Maybe the bar isn't the best place to
wait while we have these two with us."
"I can handle them", Avon assured her, giving his cosh a little twirl. Vila
and Rincewind looked at it and then at each other and in an incredible feat
of parallel thought processing both decided not to contradict Avon on this
subject. Vila found himself wondering if Albert would have hit him over the
head to keep him from drinking some wine. Rincewind found himself wondering
if he could get at his secret flask, which he always kept hidden in the top
of his hat in case of an emergency. The situation he was in certainly could
be described as an emergency. He was, after all, in immediate danger of
sobriety, a state he hadn't been in for so long that his visa had expired.
***
Jenna looked around at the patrons of the bar. "This is certainly a classy
joint. The last time I was in a place like this, it had secret passages all
over the place, so the clientele could get away in case of a raid."
"We got secret passages", the barkeep told her, anxious to live up to
standards "They go straight into cells of nightwatch."
"What could you possibly want with secret passages that go there?"
"Easy: nobody looks for them there."
"That actually makes a twisted kind of sense" mused Avon. "And I suppose you
also use them to get out of jail when you have somehow been arrested?"
"Of course not" the barman was surprised at the stupidity of these
strangers. "Those passages all lead to here, so they would just get caught
in a raid again."
"I see" said Avon and Jenna simultaneously, a sardonic look on both faces.
They turned around when the Librarian walked up behind them and told them
"Oooook".
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:35:06 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness
Message-ID: <w$LYpGAajGy2Ew1$@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <003c01be58b4$c4e74140$661bac3e@default>, Neil Faulkner
<N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>FWIW, I'm a veggie too.
>
>Trip-trap trip-trap trip-trap GULP.
So what do vegetarian trolls eat instead of billy goats?
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:44:58 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <8$HbpJAqsGy2EwUE@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB16@NL-ARN-MAIL01>,
Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl> writes
>Good point. And on the other list, they would no doubt turn this into a
>slash story :-).
You are aware that there are a few Z/O slash stories out there?
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:54:37 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB18@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Julia said:
> You are aware that there are a few Z/O slash stories out there?
>
I'm not at all surprised at that.
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:02:42 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: "'Blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Flat Robin 21
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB19@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
I thought of this just after pushing the send button on number 20, which is
why you're getting another very short piece from me now.
***
Somewhere in downtown Ankh-Morpork:
"Here, just put that big old chest down by the bed and sit down for a
spell."
"Thank you, Mrs. Ogg, but I really must go now."
"Call me Nanny. And you really can't leave without having a little bit to
drink first."
"Thank you, Nanny, I suppose I could do with something to wet my throat
before I leave."
"Here then, have some scumble. It's my own recipe. Mostly apples and a
teensy little bit of my very own secret ingredient."
"Sounds delicious."
"I should hope so. Now where did you say you come from?"
"From Earth. But I've spent the last few years on my ship, mostly."
"Now really, that's no environment for a strapping young man like you. Now
if I were still young...., but you know, my youngest daughter Nell isn't
married yet. She's a great cook, and the sweetest, most innocent girl a man
could hope to find." Nanny smiled and completely ignored the incredulous
snort that her last remark had earned her from Granny.
"Uhm, I really think I should go now."
"Have a little more scumble first." Nanny poured another glass, and Blake
gulped it down in one go, anxious to get away.
"You know, my Nell is a really good singer. Do you know any songs?"
"Not really" said Blake, who was suddenly having trouble talking and
standing at the same time. He solved that by sitting down again.
"Oh, not a problem, I'll just teach you a few of our songs then."
Granny groaned and walked out the door, while behind her Nanny patiently
started teaching "A wizards staff has a knob on the end" to her captivated
pupil.
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:05:01 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!!
Message-ID: <19990216070501.06717@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:02:31AM +0200, 422ami wrote:
> The pronouns, obviously, depend on point of view. Because in my language
> (that once-mentioned Bulgarian) as Zen, so Liberator, are "He". Actually,
> when I start to read scripts of the episodes, I was strongly surprised to
> find out what Blake means, telling Jenna "Get HER on manual!"
>
> But, emotionally, I always think about Zen as for "he". And as I don't like
> much Orac, he is "it" for me.
This, of course, points out the underlying problem: the lack of a
pronoun in English (and in many other languages) which conveys:
sentient-being-of-indeterminate-gender. People are therefore either
settling for "he", since that conveys (in one of its meanings)
sentient-being-of-masculine-gender, or "it", because that conveys
object-of-indeterminate-gender.
The argument is arising because Zen is both definitely of
indeterminate gender, and sentient. As is Orac.
We need a new pronoun. How about "e"? Like "he" with the "h" chopped
off, or "she" with the "sh" chopped off. Possibly capitalized, like
"I". (Why is "I" capitalized anyway?)
Zen's lights flashed. "Confirmed," E said.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1999 21:42:42 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness
Message-ID: <usd83bgzzx.fsf@sara.lysator.liu.se>
Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk> writes:
> So what do vegetarian trolls eat instead of billy goats?
Triffids and ents.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"I came out of that meeting so full of enthusiasm that I spent the
next two hours updating my resume" -- Paul Tomblin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:45:52 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: storm@catchnet.com.au, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Message-ID: <a6faccf8.36c88780@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/11/99 10:58:45 PM Mountain Standard Time,
storm@catchnet.com.au writes:
<< I always wondered why the Federation did not try to condition Avon, in an
attempt to rehabilitate him in order to retain his highly rated skills.
One would have thought that such brilliance is rare, even amongst the better
educated Alpha's. After all, Blake did not seem to loose any of his
engineering skills when he underwent Federation conditioning. Would not
Avon's theft and greed be easier to mask then Blake's rebel tendencies ( as
Blake's rebellion appears to be deeply ingraved into his character ) ..
Especially if Avon was not originaly anti- Federation, if he had only *just*
been dis-illusioned with the system and decided to opt out ( needing great
sums of money to do so ) and take Anna with him.
Any ideas? >>
Possibilities:
1.) Avon's mind resists "adjustment," like Vila's.
2.) Using the (apparently drastic) treatment applied to Blake might adversely
affect his desirable technical skills. I'm not sure I agree that Blake didn't
lose any of his engineering skills when he was conditioned; perhaps he was an
average type to begin with and they were able to either retain or re-implant
his knowledge base along with the new personal history. Creative genius such
as is implied for Avon could be considerably more sensitive to tampering.
3.) Something in Avon's personal and/or political background makes it
politically impossible to justify conditioning him (with the attendant risk
that he might break out of it at some point in future).
Given that there's no evidence (within the series, anyway) that conditioning
was ever tried on Avon at all, I personally lean toward a combination of the
latter two. As it seems unlikely that the job for which he was deported was
the first scam he'd ever tried, I suspect that he had been involved with some
successful job previously that either aided the rebels in some way (however
inadvertently) or caused some political embarrassment to someone with enough
power to have Central Security keep him under very tight surveillance. Either
way, he seems to have been considered incorrigible and dangerous enough to
necessitate getting rid of him.
Comments, anyone?
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:15:25 +1100
From: "Afenech" <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Message-Id: <21014782634264@domain4.bigpond.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nina said:
> Given that there's no evidence (within the series, anyway) that
>conditioning was ever tried on Avon at all ...
> Comments, anyone?
I often wonder if Avon's comment in 'Voice from the past' something along
the lines of brain-washing being enough to give anyone nightmares might
not suggest that he did have some personal knowledge of it?
Pat Fenech
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #62
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