From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #68 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/68 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 68 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Blake's XI v Babylon XI cricket match at Redemption RE: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? RE: [B7L] Fannishness RE: [B7L] Non-vegetarian Pratchett deities RE: [B7L] Non-vegetarian Pratchett deities RE: [B7L] trip trap Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? Re: [B7L] Fannishness Re: [B7L] Flat Robin 27b [B7L] Fannishness [B7L] Swansea + Paul Darrow Re: [B7L] Blake's XI v Babylon XI cricket match at Redemption Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? [B7L] OT-Spam! RE: [B7L] Fannishness Re: [B7L] Flat Robin 27b [B7L] Zine Scene [B7L] Re: Roche limit [B7L] Re: Flat Robin 27 [B7L] Re: Blake's XI v Babylon XI cricket match at Redemption Re: [B7L] Fannishness Re: [B7L] Roche limit (was Too much caffeine) [B7L] Flat Robin 28 Re: [B7L] Fannishness Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:49:40 EST From: Mac4781@aol.com To: BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's XI v Babylon XI cricket match at Redemption Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Harriet reported: > Just over a week until Blake and Sinclair hold the toss in the Blake's XI v > Babylon XI cricket match at Redemption. I'm so sorry to be missing the event. Dare I hope we'll have another wonderful written report of the match? > Suddenly it occurs to me that no > umpires or referee have been appointed. Should the umpires be supplied > from the two different universes? I would vote for upstanding, well-respected members of the different universes. Possible nominees from B7: Samor (Old Starkiller--nickname from his playing days when he hit the ball into orbit ;-), Bellfriar, Tyce. > or be working to their own agenda (eg > Servalan - who does at least wear white - and Bester)? That also has some appeal. I do enjoy Bester. Egrorian would be someone who would work his own agenda--whenever a player responded to his flirting, that side would get an edge. > And who would the Interstellar Cricket Council choose as referee? This > post really should be guaranteed neutral. Which leads me to think it must > be the Man in the Shack (aka the Ruler of the Universe) from Hitchhiker's > Guide to the Galaxy. Or possibly an imposing figure on the order of The Terminator. > Just to remind any interested parties, the two XIs are as follows. Anyone > willing to roll dice, move our high-tech representations of the players > round the field, etc, more than welcome to join me at at 10.30 on Saturday > morning, subject to rain, fog etc in the boulevard. Make sure you get an early start; the public transports are going to be packed with fans on their way to the match. > Blake's XI > 1: Tarrant (RHB, occ RM) (batted a bit like Jayasuriya at Who's 7 - three > sixes in the opening over) He comes from a long line of respected cricketers: Frank Tarrant ("Some of Tarrant's feats were so outstanding that they bordered on genius.") and (on his mother's side) tall, thin, curly-haired Sir Angus Fraser ("...if by his own sweat, toil and skill, Fraser has banged and battered himself to become the very best performer of his kind...") I'm starting to tense up on Tarrant's behalf. Sports stress strikes again. > 11: Vila (RHB, SLA) (whose many-times-great-grandmother once met Phil > Tufnell in a bar) I hope he's in shape. I heard rumors he was hitting the banquet circuit with a tad too much enthusiasm during the off season. Barry Letts passed that along. ;-) > Babylon XI > 1: Mollari (RHB) (enjoys an occasionally effective partnership - when they > don't run each other out - with…) > 3: Sheridan (vice-captain) (RHB) (um… well, I suppose he's a fairly > orthodox batsman) I hope this is Sheridan when he wasn't sporting face fuzz. Do they allow face fuzz on cricket grounds? > And I'm the scorer. And a very proficient one, I'm sure. Let the play begin! Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:56:53 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB27@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Penny said: > Kathryn said: > > >I didn't seem to get chapter 24 at all! What happened? > > Chapter 25 seems to pick up seamlessly where 22 left off (23 being a > Meanwhile), leading me to conclude that there *is* no Chapter 24. I > deduce Chapter 25 was thusly named in an attempt to get the numbers in > synch with reality (see 'Georgian Calendar') but without realizing that > a Chapter 23 *had* been posted in the interim. Avona? Am I anywhere near > the mark? > Actually, chapter 25 seems to have been posted as a reply to something, but I never got that either. If that's right, could someone who did get it (or the original sender: chauveline@lycosmail.com) please send it to the list? Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:34:23 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: lysator Subject: RE: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB28@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Neil said: > When I criticise fan writing, it's not so much because the writer allows > her/imself to be bound to 'the canon', but because s/he is self-restricted > to a canon that does not really exist. Blakes 7, the TV series, is not a > canon, it is merely the basis for one, which the fans have to construct > for > themselves. The series is too insubstantial and too self-contradictory to > qualify as complete and coherent resource in itself. > I don't know about that as the parts I added to the Flat Robin constitute the first time I ever wrote anything that was meant to be read by more than a few people. All I know is that I can only make it work for myself if I can hear the characters "talking" in my mind. I guess that means I'm giving my interpretation of the characters, but isn't that what every writer does? What I like most about the Flat Robin is that it puts our main characters in totally unfamiliar and absolutely ridiculous surroundings. Ofcourse that's only fun (oh dear, there's that word again) if the characters remain recognizable. > >I have fun writing pastiches and fanfic, because I like writing, but in > >writing for a fan audience, one has to spend less time on explanations > >and more time exploring. It's well and good to write essays about why > >this character may act the way he does, but it's more intriguing to show > >why. > > > That's true of good writing anyway. I agree entirely with the reduced > need > to explain the fundamentals - that, to me, is one of the appeals of > writing > fanfic. But more time exploring - the level of fannishness I've been > criticising does _anything but_ explore. I wouldn't like to say if this > is > because the non-explorative authors are disinterested in exploration, > disdainful of it, perhaps even afraid of it. A sizable chunk of fanfic is > distinctly non-daring. > Maybe they were just having fun! I'll agree that some writers are distinctly better than others. But in some cases it's just a matter of personal taste. For instance: I don't like explicit slash or het stories. But all that means is that when they show up on the other list is that I recognize that I'm not one of the people those stories were written for, so I just delete them without reading on. I don't presume to give any kind of judgement on how well those stories are written, because I'm not the right one to judge. This doesn't mean you can't give criticism. I've recently been reading the entire Flat Robin again (I've been concatenating, just like Penny) and sometimes flinched at some of the stuff I'd been sending to this list. My writing style often leaves much to be desired and constructive criticism would have been appreciated there. Like I said, I'm not an experienced writer and was just doing this for (there's that word again) fun, which means I've generally been concentrating on putting in some funny interludes, without even thinking about where the story was going in general. I don't know about exploring. Exactly what do you mean by that? Telling people that you don't like the kind of stories they're writing, (like: "I don't like fannish") is likely to get you a reaction along the lines of "Then why are you reading it?". Maybe that's why you're so good at trolling: you can't seem to leave anything alone, even if you don't like it :-). Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:37:46 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Non-vegetarian Pratchett deities Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB29@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Sister Avona, honorary minister in our vegetarian crusade, spoke: > > > > >Acolyte in charge of torture and singing in the holy vegetarian > > >crusade > > > > Hopefully, they are not one and the same thing! > > > > Regards > > Joanne > > (probably about to join the irredeemably damned for that last comment!) > > I expect they are the same thing. After all, we vegetarians tend to be a > kindly lot, deep down. > They are indeed the same thing. And if you call that kindly, you have obviously never heard me sing. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:50:27 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Non-vegetarian Pratchett deities Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB2A@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Joanne said: > Define irredeemably damned > Irredeemably damned means we take away your chocolate and I come to sing in your house. Truly a fate worse than death. > The choice between the smell of burnt > tobacco and a god with bite doesn't seem to have the "lesser of two > evils" option. > Sure it does. That bite only hurts for a very short time and Offler might just decide to yawn at the critical time. > >Acolyte in charge of torture and singing in the holy vegetarian > >crusade > > Hopefully, they are not one and the same thing! > > Regards > Joanne > (probably about to join the irredeemably damned for that last comment!) > Nah, we don't punish people for being right. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:56:12 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] trip trap Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB2B@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Our great and just leader Penny exclaimed: > Come on, come on, post some Flat Robin, folks -- clearly I need an > outlet for my sarcasm. Acolytes? Where are you, my Acolytes? > Unable to call in to the internet since yesterday morning. But it seems to be working again, so I'll try to post something tomorrow. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:48:46 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? Message-ID: <36CDA3FE.36F1@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny Dreadful wrote: > > Kathryn said: > > >I didn't seem to get chapter 24 at all! What happened? > > Chapter 25 seems to pick up seamlessly where 22 left off (23 being a > Meanwhile), leading me to conclude that there *is* no Chapter 24. I > deduce Chapter 25 was thusly named in an attempt to get the numbers in > synch with reality (see 'Georgian Calendar') but without realizing that > a Chapter 23 *had* been posted in the interim. Avona? Am I anywhere near > the mark? Yup. Unimaginative little me checked the number of chapters saved in my Falat Robin folder and went from there. > > >I am enjoying this insanity; obviously mixing Discworld with Blake's 7 > >has overcome my Discworld allergy, increasing my Terry-Pratchet-humour > >tolerance... or perhaps not, considering that my pterry humour > >tolerance runs to about half a novel before I give up. > > We're currently sitting at over 25 000 words (I've been concatenating it > for ease of reference, so help me). How many words in half a Discworld > novel, on average, I wonder? I've never counted. Yipes! That much already? 'Novel-length', in general, is considered to be around 60,000 words. So we are moving along wonderfully. And probably about to test the limits of Kathryn's tolerance. Although we may be already testing the limits of Blake afficiandoes, keeping him cloistered with the witches while everyone else is having the run of Discworld. I suppose I'm thinking this is going to be one of those things where by the time he's finally sober and able to contact the others, the ship will be out of the bog and back over the Disc, leaving Blake to comment that Vila and Jenna must have been very bored. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:56:34 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? Message-ID: <36CDA5D2.21D3@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > > Penny said: > > > Kathryn said: > > > > >I didn't seem to get chapter 24 at all! What happened? > > > > Chapter 25 seems to pick up seamlessly where 22 left off (23 being a > > Meanwhile), leading me to conclude that there *is* no Chapter 24. I > > deduce Chapter 25 was thusly named in an attempt to get the numbers in > > synch with reality (see 'Georgian Calendar') but without realizing that > > a Chapter 23 *had* been posted in the interim. Avona? Am I anywhere near > > the mark? > > > Actually, chapter 25 seems to have been posted as a reply to something, but > I never got that either. If that's right, could someone who did get it (or > the original sender: chauveline@lycosmail.com) please send it to the list? Whoops! Didn't mean to leave that on. That's just my other email address. I wrote the beginning of the chapter at work, then came home, did a 'reply', pasted on the B7 mailing address, and finished the chapter. Now you know how to reach me the rest of the day. --Avona ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:04:50 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: <36CDA7C2.6EFD@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > > Telling people that you don't like the kind of stories they're writing, > (like: "I don't like fannish") is likely to get you a reaction along the > lines of "Then why are you reading it?". Maybe that's why you're so good at > trolling: you can't seem to leave anything alone, even if you don't like it > :-). "I don't like Andromdedans," said Neil, the troll. His name should have been Igneous, but the birth certificates had been mixed up at the hospital. Several of them squelched angrily over his rocky form, trying to find some cracks to ooze between and split him wide open. He absent mindedly swatted the Bo'sun, flattening the propellor of his hat of office. "Had one for lunch," the troll continued, "Had the runs ever since." I'm not sure where this should fit into our story, though. __Avona ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:18:12 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin 27b Message-ID: <36CDAAE4.798C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The catfight turned out to be Granny whacking Servalan a few times with the end of her broom and Servalan running away. "That's it?!" cried Eddwoode. "But everything was going so well. I expected lightning, hair stading on end, space rays, loud noises." "She's yelling quite a bit," said Krantor. "More than loud enough for my tastes." Toise subtly handed a slip of papr to Eddwoode. The god, in some confusion looked at it. "What?! What do you mean, we're over budget! I don't care, I'm a god." He paused and thought about it. "I'll improvise." He took Toyse gun from him and fired. A stream of hot air flowed toward the women. They froze in their tracks, not because the mud had been hardened by the blast of air. (It wasn't that powerful, being designed for coiffin hair, after all) Rather they had been frozen by the will of Eddwoode's godly directions. Or perhaps, his directorly godtions. "We'll take it from the top, after we assemble a few more characters." ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 1999 10:00:24 -0800 From: "Ma.James" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: >Neil wrote: >When I criticise fan writing, it's not so much because the writer >allows her/himself to be bound to 'the canon', but because s/he is >self-restricted to a canon that does not really exist. Blakes 7, >the TV series, is not a canon, it is merely the basis for one, which >the fans have to construct for themselves. Isn't that statement contradictory itself? If we see it on the screen, doesn't that make it canon? Considering that what we see on the screen is based on our own interpretation of events (and personalities) within the series, the opinion of what *is* and *is not* canon can vary greatly (and certainly DOES in Blake's 7). To criticise a fan writer as being bound to a canon that does not really exist is an unfair criticism. >The series is too insubstantial and too self-contradictory to qualify >as complete and coherent resource in itself. This is true. But despite this fact, canon can only be based on what we see on the screen. >But more time exploring - the level of fannishness I've been >criticising does _anything but_ explore. I wouldn't like to say if >this is because the non-explorative authors are disinterested in >exploration, disdainful of it, perhaps even afraid of it. A sizable >chunk of fanfic is distinctly non-daring. Non-daring in what way. I've read lots of fanfic that explores different angles of various B7 "canon" -- some I liked, some I didn't. Fanfic pleasure is an extremely personal thing. If a B7 fanfic roams too far from what *I* consider canon, I find it uninteresting, even though the story itself may be excellent. An example of this is Neil's own story "Things That Never Get Said" in FORBIDDEN STAR TWO. An excellent story but I found the characters, events, and especially Dayna and Tarrant's conversation very far removed from what *I* see in B7. I especially had to laugh at the idea of Dayna being hysterically terrified of Avon and living in fear that he might kill her. :) But if that's how Neil sees them... Candace ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:34:12 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Swansea + Paul Darrow Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Paul Darrow will be making a brief appearance at Waterstones bookshop in Swansea on Tuesday 2nd March (to publicise their new SF section and to promote Guards Guards) It'll be in the afternoon, but I don't know the time. I got this from a friend in Swansea. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:45:26 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's XI v Babylon XI cricket match at Redemption Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Fri 19 Feb, Harriet Monkhouse wrote:? > And who would the Interstellar Cricket Council choose as referee? This > post really should be guaranteed neutral. Which leads me to think it must > be the Man in the Shack (aka the Ruler of the Universe) from Hitchhiker's > Guide to the Galaxy. Hey, wait a minute. Rulers of the Universe. Do we > not have three candidates standing for this position at Redemption? And > might they not be persuaded to stand (on paper, at least) in this match? > So, on the one-from-each-universe principle, that would be Servalan and the > Emperor Cartagia, with the Sandman as the vis replay umpire back in the > pavilion. Which is a pretty good job, as he just has to sit there watching > TV and chatting to the Man in the Shack (and his cat). I believe Londo Mollari has declared that he is also standing as a 'Rule of the Universe' candidate. His stated aim is to save the universe from Cartagia. He adds that once he is victorious, the other races will benefit from total immersion in Centari culture, gentility and morality. Starting with the Klingon... As he's already playing in the match, this means that he can't be a referee. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:50:02 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? Message-ID: In message <19990219041330.6916.qmail@hotmail.com>, Penny Dreadful writes >We're currently sitting at over 25 000 words (I've been concatenating it >for ease of reference, so help me). How many words in half a Discworld >novel, on average, I wonder? I've never counted. More than that, but you've already put together quite enough to interest a zine editor. Are you going to submit this to a zine? -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:41:33 PST From: "Edith Spencer" To: unnamed@mylist.net Cc: space-city@world.std.com Subject: [B7L] OT-Spam! Message-ID: <19990219204133.3769.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Hello All- I am very sorry to do this to my mailing lists; but I have to inquire: Is anyone on the unnamed, Space City or B7 list get spammed from a user on AOl? If so, do respond to me (sueno45@hotmail.com) privately. I have informed Aol of the problem, but I was also wondering if anyone else is. Again, you may yell at me privately, and I will take it like a good girl. Edith Spencer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:33:25 PST From: "Penny Dreadful" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: <19990219213326.18248.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Jacqueline sez: >All I know is that I can only make it work for myself if I can >hear the characters "talking" in my mind. Yes, that's been my method too: hear them talking, see them doing. Watch it unfold before my eyes like dinner theatre farce unconstrained by budgetary considerations or the laws of physics (that probably explains the genesis of Eddwode) and try to transcribe what transpires. >(I've been concatenating, just like Penny) "So enraptured was he of her fannishness, he began concatenating right then and there." >My writing style often leaves much to be desired and constructive >criticism would have been appreciated there. There's such a fine and wriggly line between constructive criticism and disheartening insult, though, depending both upon the venue and the individual. Probably people didn't want to stifle your creativity by telling you you spelled "the" incorrectly or what have you -- or *perhaps*, Jacqueline, what with you being my number one Acolyte and all, they are as terrified of you as they are of me. >I've generally been concentrating on putting >in some funny interludes, without even thinking about where the story >was going in general. Which is presumably the whole point of this "round robin" concept. Mutual inspiration... >Maybe that's why you're so good at trolling: you can't seem to >leave anything alone, even if you don't like it :-). "Too fannish" didn't enlighten me much either, but when pressed Neil did cough up Constructive Criticism. Me, I don't know what's being sought in the way of feedback. All my fancy-shmancy schoolin', if it got me nothing else, at least inured me forever to the pain of having every ill-thought utterance of mine put under a thousand-watt spotlight, pelted with rotten eggs, and summarily executed by a jury of my mouth-breathing peers. But some people take that sort of thing amiss, and believe it or not I don't *want* to generate ill-will. --Penny "Soon, I Sense, To Be Thickly Encrusted With Albumin" Dreadful ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:07:40 PST From: "Penny Dreadful" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin 27b Message-ID: <19990219220740.19549.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Avona wrote: >Rather they had been frozen by the >will of Eddwoode's godly directions. Or perhaps, his directorly >godtions. "We'll take it from the top, after we assemble a few more >characters." A cast of thousands, slowly but surely being drawn toward the great Unharmonic Convergence, the apocalyptic Showdown In The Ankh-Morpork Bog -- I can sense it's going to be like a cross between Woodstock and WW I... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:22:41 PST From: "Penny Dreadful" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Zine Scene Message-ID: <19990219222242.15092.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Julia said: >Are you going to submit this to a zine? I am completely in the dark about this whole zine thing. As I believe I may have said before the word "zine" is associated in my head with punk rock in the mid-eighties and a whole lot of acrimony (bit of a tautology I guess). Are any of my fellow contributors more hep to the subtleties of this scene than I am? --Penny "Oy, My Sciatica!" Dreadful ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:14:26 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Roche limit Message-ID: <199902191814_MC2-6B29-60A0@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Iain wrote: >(This would be so much easier with a blackboard, you know.) Perhaps, if we could rustle up a blackboard at Redemption (hey, some of us should be there a week from now!), you and Neil could stage an extra workshop to demonstrate the possibly contesting, possibly complementary theories? Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:14:18 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Flat Robin 27 Message-ID: <199902191814_MC2-6B29-609F@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Penny (I think) wrote: >But the harlot in white is certainly no slouch with her elbows... Which suddenly reminds me that the February picture on the calendar in my kitchen is awfully familiar - a young woman with very short black hair, wearing a tightly-fitting long white dress with plunging neckline. It's by Frida Kahlo. Wonder if it was really Servalan who killed Trotsky with the icepick? Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:14:13 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's XI v Babylon XI cricket match at Redemption Message-ID: <199902191814_MC2-6B29-609D@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joanne replied to me: >Doctors 4 and 5 might be useful choices (ie the ones who >seemed to have some interest in the game). I remember the Davison doctor claimed to have played for New South Wales - never knew whether I should be looking for a mysterious player in the past or waiting for one in the future. But he doesn't quite have the gravitas for an umpire. The McCoy doctor, I think, would be good in the role. >>6: Marcus (RHB, RM) (well, obviously Marcus played cricket). > >With what, pray tell? The Swiss Army stick he carries with him? With enthusiasm, and great skill, of course. He was quite well known in the planetary leagues before he left to become a Ranger. But as the Minbari are no mean players themselves (see Lennier) he may have perfected his slower ball during training there. Oh yes, I need a venue for this match, too. Last time it was at Central Control (a rather explosive pitch). Can't immediately think where this one would be. Need somewhere with obvious landmarks at each end (for scorebook purposes). Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:58:12 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: <001901be5c63$f02002e0$e41dac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline wrote: >Maybe they were just having fun! I'll agree that some writers are >distinctly better than others. But in some cases it's just a matter of >personal taste. For instance: I don't like explicit slash or het stories. >But all that means is that when they show up on the other list is that I >recognize that I'm not one of the people those stories were written for, so >I just delete them without reading on. I don't presume to give any kind of >judgement on how well those stories are written, because I'm not the right >one to judge. I try (I'm not saying I succeed, but I do try) to discriminate between the quality of writing and the subject matter. I don't like adult stuff much either, but I do concede that some of it at least is well written, some of it very well written indeed. From a technical angle, I mean - just because a piece is well written doesn't automatically make it a 'good' adult story. It can still founder as a piece of _adult_ fiction, even if technically excellent. But bad writing is bad writing, no matter what it's about. >This doesn't mean you can't give criticism. I've recently been reading the >entire Flat Robin again (I've been concatenating, just like Penny) and >sometimes flinched at some of the stuff I'd been sending to this list. My >writing style often leaves much to be desired and constructive criticism >would have been appreciated there. Like I said, I'm not an experienced >writer and was just doing this for (there's that word again) fun, which >means I've generally been concentrating on putting in some funny interludes, >without even thinking about where the story was going in general. I don't >know about exploring. Exactly what do you mean by that? >Telling people that you don't like the kind of stories they're writing, >(like: "I don't like fannish") is likely to get you a reaction along the >lines of "Then why are you reading it?". Maybe that's why you're so good at >trolling: you can't seem to leave anything alone, even if you don't like it That last might well be true... Like I said above, I try to realise the difference between disliking a story for its form and disliking it for its content, though the two are not always readily seperable. And if anyone asks, 'Why are you reading it?', I feel entitled to ask back, 'Why are you writing it?'. Exploring - this can go in several directions. It can explore the characters, the universe they live in, or the thematic elements of the series, or thematic elements that the series overlooked, ignored, or actively rejected. Explorative fiction takes the series as a launchpad, rather than staying resolutely grounded. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:44:45 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Roche limit (was Too much caffeine) Message-ID: <001801be5c63$ef68e7e0$e41dac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >In "Traitor", M is the planet Helotrix and P is Scorpio. (The other >component of the binary system is Helotrix's sun). Scorpio is above R, and >hence is not gravitationally bound to Helotrix. However, it is observed to >be orbiting Helotrix. If it is a natural body this is impossible: hence, >it is a spacecraft. Right. I _think_ some measure of understanding might be dawning. Presumably the gravitational influence of other planets in the Helotrix system can be considered small enough to be discounted. I don't think it says anywhere in the script that Scorpio was orbiting the planet. I think Liberator was stated on at least one occasion to have taken up a geostationary orbit, though. The distance cited in Traitor - 40 miles - wouldn't that mean that Scorpio would have been moving pretty fast relative to the planet's surface, which might have made it difficult to maintain teleport status. Always assuming that the teleport (a) projects its subjects in a straight line, and (b) is blocked by intervening matter. Neither is a necessary assumption. In fact, (b) would seem to be wiped out by Project Avalon, where the crew teleport to a destination deep underground. Yeah, alright, I know I'm rambling... Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:05:42 PST From: "Penny Dreadful" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: egomoo@geocities.com Subject: [B7L] Flat Robin 28 Message-ID: <19990220010544.28589.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >"We'll take it from the top, after we assemble a few more characters." *** Meanwhile... "Ng hnk gnk mnkt bg dng nkgrnd ng ngrgd fng Hnx." "I beg your pardon?" Ponder asked absently. He was constructing a double-thick wall of canned goods in one corner of the room, in accordance with specifications given in 'Thee Idiot's Guide To Survyving Thee Impending Apockalypse', which he had checked out of the Unseen University Library along with 'Care and Feeding of Youre Tarriel (Thee Animal Not Thee Cheese, Although Numerous Of The Rules May Be Safely Applied With Thee Latter)' and 'Berrick The Blodethirstie's Big Fulle-Colour Book Of Tarriel-Inflicted Injuries (Thee Animal Not The Harlotte)'. There was an indescribably unpleasant sound, and then the junior wizard on the other side of the wall reiterated: "I think this must be the upgrade you ordered for Hex." Ponder Stibbon's pointy hat appeared over the top of the half-finished wall of his Robinson shelter. After several seconds during which it was not savagely assaulted, Ponder's face appeared around the side of the wall, followed cautiously by his body, his arm, and finally his hat on the end of a stick. "Thank you, Johnstone -- I see you've given up on that beard you were trying to grow." "I have now," said Johnstone glumly. He was holding his hat in his hands in what Ponder momentarily mistook for a gesture of respect, until he saw the claw come through the fabric. "I'll just put this little fellow in its cell, shall I?" Johnstone said, and hurled the hat away from himself without waiting for a formal response. It cartwheeled through the air and into the cage that had been built (by the ants, presumably -- the mice were notoriously inept solderers) in the heart of Hex. The springloaded, pressure-activated trapdoor snapped shut just as the hat disintegrated, a furious flurry of rhinestones and felt flying out in all directions. "Sun's over the yardarm," Johnstone continued, "I believe I'll adjourn to the 'Drum' for a quick pint or six." "I thought you were scared to go into the Mended Drum," said Ponder, cradling his own hat against his chest as he crept cautiously closer to Hex. "I was," said Johnstone, walking out the door. "I *was*." *** In retrospect Cally could not decide which she had perceived first: the octarine glow that extended high above the wizards as they approached the wall, or the sound of their acrimony. "Harlot!" the Senior Wrangler was screeching. "If that is indeed what an harlot is, then I assure you, Archchancellor, there is only one harlot *here*!" "Well hopefully we can find the other one before her harlot-mobile teeters off our tower." "My blood-sausage has a first name, it's H-A-R-L-O-T--" "Right front pocket, Bursar. There y'go." "What I was *inferring*, Archchancellor, was that *she* is *not* a harlot." "Don't you mean you were *implying* that she's not a harlot?" asked the Lecturer in Recent Runes. "Bit of an indirect inference, if you ask -- yes, Miss, how may I help you?" The small throng of wizards milled slowly to a halt at the bottom of the wall[1] as Ridcully, heaving himself over the top of it, came face to face with Cally. "What do you call that building over there?" "High Energy Magic Building, Miss," said the Dean, squeezing past Ridcully and slithering adroitly down the other side, almost as though he had taken this route before. "Thank you," said Cally, and swung nimbly over the wall. "Is she allowed to come in this way?" one of the hats below her asked. "Nobody's *allowed* to come in this way," Ridcully said. Cally clambered down the wall, unperturbed. "But, erm, does this mean we're now officially sanctioning, ahem, Lady Visitors?" Cally was down on the ground now. Thus the angle of impact when she spun and fired embedded the remains of the hat in the wall just out of reach. "That was no lady," Ridcully responded, and followed the Dean. ------ [1]Fitzgerald's Hypothesis states that neither rain nor etc. nor least of all a 20-foot stone wall can ever seriously hope to impede foot-travel along the shortest path from a major Institute Of Higher Learning to a Tavern. Bukowski's Lemma states that the return trip is a different story altogether. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:06:46 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: <004001be5c6d$96dfe9c0$e41dac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Candace wrote: >>Neil wrote: >>When I criticise fan writing, it's not so much because the writer >>allows her/himself to be bound to 'the canon', but because s/he is >>self-restricted to a canon that does not really exist. Blakes 7, >>the TV series, is not a canon, it is merely the basis for one, which >>the fans have to construct for themselves. > >Isn't that statement contradictory itself? If we see it on the screen, doesn't >that make it canon? Considering that what we see on the screen is based on our >own interpretation of events (and personalities) within the series, the opinion >of what *is* and *is not* canon can vary greatly (and certainly DOES in Blake's >7). To criticise a fan writer as being bound to a canon that does not really >exist is an unfair criticism. There is a difference between being bound to a canon and being restricted to it. With my own fiction - the serious stuff, at any rate - I take great pains not to contradict any _factual_ statement made in the series. For example, in 'Wit and Wisdom of the Dead' (Star Three) I totally inverted the usual interpretation of Travis' presence on Star One - he was there to save the Federation, not to destroy it. But AFAIK no flat-out contradiction of the 'canon' is in the story (though there may, of course, be something I overlooked). The story also contains a lot of references to things that _weren't_ ever mentioned in the series at all, but that in itself does not preclude their insertion into a story. Putting them in is all part of the process of me defining the B7 that I saw, even if no one else saw it. Fanfic that restricts itself to the 'canon', however, is very reluctant to get inventive in this way. Consequently there is no definition of personal vision (what I believe the media studies people call 'individuation'). Canon-restricted fanfic goes out of its way _not_ to individuate - as if the writer is scared of imprinting his/er personal stamp on the series for some reason (rejection by the fanfic reading community, perhaps?). A typical feature of such fanfic is the way the writer strives to show how s/he can 'capture' the characters by having them speak and act firmly in-character - so in-character, in fact, that they are reduced to caricatures (often labelled as the Burly Rebel Leader, Sneering Tech, Little Thief etc). >>The series is too insubstantial and too self-contradictory to qualify >>as complete and coherent resource in itself. > >This is true. But despite this fact, canon can only be based on what we see on >the screen. A canon (perhaps more correctly a subcanon, analogous to Tolkien's concept of subcreation) can be built from what we see on the screen. I would say that it _has_ to be built, because the series does not give sufficient depth of background detail to qualify as a canon in its own right. If you think it does, answer the following questions: (a) who is the President of the Terran Federation in the 1st/2nd seasons? (b)how far is a spacial? (c)in what year (New Calendar) did Avon kill Blake on Gauda Prime? (d)is beer sold in litres or pints, and how many do you get for one credit (or how many credits for one)? (e)what is the most popular spectator sport with Federation citizens, and which team has the most supporters? I wouldn't expect a true canon to answer _all_ of those, but it ought to give at least some idea on a couple of them. As to my own personal subcanon, the answers are: (a) Dimitro Henritus (b) I did work this one out one day but it's buried in a file somewhere. (c) NC 165. (d) approximately one credit per litre. (e) skyball, Atlay Avengers. Not that I expect anyone to agree with any of the above - it's pure individuation. (You're perfectly entitled to believe that the answer to (b) should remain buried in that file.) >Non-daring in what way. I've read lots of fanfic that explores different angles >of various B7 "canon" -- some I liked, some I didn't. Fanfic pleasure is an >extremely personal thing. If a B7 fanfic roams too far from what *I* consider >canon, I find it uninteresting, even though the story itself may be excellent. I think it might be more a matter of direction rather than distance. I've read quite a few stories that take B7 in directions that I do not personally like at all, though that in itself does not make them bad stories. Alice Aldridge's Jenna/Travis saga in Gambit is a good example - good writing, good plot, good characterisation, but it's Star Warsy aliens and oligarchic Free Trader society do not fit my personal interpretation of B7 at all. And there's no reason why they should have to - Alice's vision is hers and it's her right to craft it. At least she has one - many writers don't. Some don't even seem to know that they don't have one. >An example of this is Neil's own story "Things That Never Get Said" in FORBIDDEN >STAR TWO. An excellent story but I found the characters, events, and especially >Dayna and Tarrant's conversation very far removed from what *I* see in B7. I >especially had to laugh at the idea of Dayna being hysterically terrified of >Avon and living in fear that he might kill her. :) > >But if that's how Neil sees them... > It's one way of seeing how they _could_ be. Helen and Penny have both commented on 'hearing' the characters speak their lines to the writer. This is true for me too. But the Dayna and Tarrant that _I_ heard when writing that story are not necessarily the ones that you might ever hear. That doesn't make either of us 'wrong' (or 'right', for that matter). Still, at least I gave you a laugh. The strength of B7 is that the aired proto-canon is so fuzzily defined that it can be taken in all manner of directions by the individuating fan (and indeed it is, considering the sheer diversity of approaches adopted by fanfic). However, that fuzzy definition is also a weakness, in that it works against the development of any consensus regarding the characters and background. But then if it didn't, we wouldn't have half so much to argue about, would we? Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:05:21 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin chapter... 25? Message-ID: <36CE1861.191F@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: > > In message <19990219041330.6916.qmail@hotmail.com>, Penny Dreadful > writes > >We're currently sitting at over 25 000 words (I've been concatenating it > >for ease of reference, so help me). How many words in half a Discworld > >novel, on average, I wonder? I've never counted. > > More than that, but you've already put together quite enough to interest > a zine editor. Are you going to submit this to a zine? > -- > Julia Jones I would not presume to submit it, as I am only one of several authors and therefore have no claim to the story. (Indeed, my contributions have probably been the least funny)-- However, if the authors, as a group, would be interested in publication, well, I have _never_ objected to getting my scribblings to the largest amount of public available. Anyone know any 'zine that would want this Ter*ry/Pterry universe hybrid? __Avona -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #68 *************************************