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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 74
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Round Robin 33
Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] unsubscribing
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Round Robin 33
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] Round Robin 33: Errata
Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats
[B7L] Chris Boucher fan club - was the 'Volcano' strategy
Re: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking...
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] Servalan's temperament
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Fannishness
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:38:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Round Robin 33
Message-Id: <199902222038.NAA13516@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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***
"Barkeep! Hit me again!"
The bartender of the still-deserted Mended Drum raised his eyebrow(s). He hadn't seen a
wench slam back three of his patented Widowmakers in such quick succession since
Mulberry Nipples had lived in the neighbourhood, working as a palliative homecare nurse for the
sickly but sweet Lord Pancreas. But once again she had managed to extract a small but
authentic gold piece from parts unknown while his attention was elsewhere, and so, once
again, he hit her.
"And *another* thing," she resumed the soliloquy begun two Widowmakers ago. "Experienced
pilot. Piloting experience. Me. Ha! Wasted! A monk--"
The bartender discreetly rolled his eyes toward the large sign on the wall, which looked as
though it must at some point have spelled out a fairly lengthy list of prohibitions, but time and
blunt trauma had obliterated all but the last rule, recently repainted in gore, it appeared: "USE
OF THEE 'M-WORDE' IS STRICTLY PROHIBITTED IN THIS ESSTABLISHMENT"
"I mean an *orangutan* could fly that thing. Where's the *challenge*? I *need* the challenge.
I'm a hands-on kind of girl."
Jenna downed her fourth Widowmaker. "Try telling that to *him*, though, he'll assume you *are*
talking about practical application of theoretical knowledge," she muttered. The bartender
nodded sympathetically. He was unaccustomed to the situation in which he now found himself.
Indeed, it was utterly unprecedented in the long history of the Mended Drum, not excluding the
numerous chapters wherein the establishment in question was on fire. *One* customer.
Something to tell your grandchildren, that.[1]
The front door slammed open. Jenna spun round on her stool.
"Is that the harlot to whom you were referring?" Ridcully inquired.
"No. She had short brown hair and -- she was *not* a harlot, Archchancellor! In any case, you
saw her as well as I did," the Senior Wrangler pouted.
"Somehow I don't think I could have."
"I'll have what she's having," said the Chair in Indefinite Studies. Observing the way the comely
not-a-harlot was staring at his hat, he waggled his eyebrows and moved toward her.
"Come here often?" he asked Jenna.
"Are you wizards?" she demanded. He glanced over his shoulder and saw they had all followed
him.
"We are," said Ridcully. "And right now we're looking for a harlot." The Dean leaned close and
murmured something in his ear. "Who has left her locked vehicle parked in a precarious
position on our property," he appended hurriedly.
"What a coincidence!" Jenna exclaimed. "Speaking of precariously parked vehicles..."
***
"Is that--"
"Servalan's pursuit ship? Of course."
"Of course." Avon holstered his gun, which he had drawn when he saw the shape sidling along
the stone wall of the tower upon which the mighty vehicle now swayed. "Cally. I'm glad I found
you. The Liberator--"
"Got shot down and embedded itself in a bog, and the teleporter's out?"
"So you *can* read my mind," Avon said with a smirk, then grew pale. "You know, Cally,
picturing the person you're talking to wearing nothing but black socks is a common technique
by which Earthlings overcome--"
"I didn't read your mind. Orac told me."
Avon grinned. "I knew that. Now, what do you propose we do to rectify this situation before
Blake gets wind of it and makes my life a living hell hereafter for coercing him into stopping
here?"
"Something tells me our answer lies *there*," Cally said, pointing to a relatively low building,
resolutely nondescript except that it glowed, to her, a brilliant octarine. Which colour Avon was
not capable of perceiving, but he *could* make out the sign. "High Energy Magic Building," he
read, and nodded. "Let's go." They moved cautiously out from the shadow of the pursuit ship
and scurried serpentine across the lawn toward the other building.
"Anyhow, as I recall," said Cally as they ran, "I was wearing a gun-belt and a lampshade, as
well."
"Look!" Avon replied. "A pregnant mare!"
***
"...and then Todd 'Small Ears' Nipples said to keep an eye out for men in red dresses, as you
might be able to help."
"Wise man, this young Nipples. I'm quite sure we can. Shall we adjourn to the Bog?"
"But what about the, erm--" one of the wizards jerked his head meaningfully in the direction of
the University. The Dean made "teetering spaceship" motions, although given that he had been
trying to catch up with Jenna on the Widowmaker front, he probably wasn't capable of any
other.
"Well she's obviously not here," said Ridcully. "Tell me, Miss, did you happen to see a--"
"--perfectly respectable," the Senior Wrangler interjected.
"White dress, short hair..." The words petered out as Jenna suddenly choked on her drink, and
then began screaming obscenities at her jewelry. "Must be a rival," the Dean remarked. "Very
competitive business, I hear."
"Not compared to fruit-vending."
"Well, no."
"Same to you, Orac, *and* the horse you metaphorically rode in on," the blonde woman told
her bracelet. She leapt off her stool. "All right, we've got to get back to the Bog. Are you with
me? What are those?"
"Dried frog pills, Miss. Wondrous for making one's fashion accessories cease sassing one."
She looked sorely tempted, but declined. "No, I've got to keep on my toes. Barkeep, when my
companions get back, would you please tell them I've gone to the Bog?" The bartender nodded,
and Jenna and the wizards hurried out the door, leaving him all alone in the Mended Drum,
trying desperately to justify his existence.
He scratched his chin. Maybe, he thought, he ought to take this unique opportunity to tidy up a
little.
------
[1] Although as far as that goes a Mended Drum bartender living long enough to tell his
grandchildren *anything* would be unprecedented in itself.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:43:45 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar
Message-ID: <007301be5ea4$7c32bce0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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Harriet said -
>Basically, I've never seen a production that was as slashy as I'd do it!
This is why I wish we had technology that would let us see a play, or read a
poem, through someone else's perception of it. The imagination can do it so
much better than reality. That's what my story 'Radioheads' is about in a
way (shameless plug). Also I think that's what all fan fiction is about (in
a way).
In other word's I'd like to see Harriet's platonic version of Julius Caesar.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:39:33 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "B7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <007201be5ea4$7ae30b60$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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>Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
>
>> This makes me almost afraid to ask how us ISTJ's could be recognised. I
took
>> the test on the internet, but when I got back the ISTJ-score, I didn't
>> really recognise myself in it.
I think that the descriptions are very harsh to SJ types (revenge for the
fact that you are in the majority in real life). My favourite exemplar of
ISTJ is Data - do you think you could identify with him Jacqueline? He is my
favourite character in ST:TNG. He is so sincere and so open hearted.
Woops I'm getting way off B7 here.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:03:00 EST
From: DRAGON6435@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] unsubscribing
Message-ID: <9638d069.36d1c604@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Okay, I give, just how the heck am I supposed to get off of here. I tried
twice last night with the insructions I had and it bounced both times and said
they couldn't find my name so I wasn't being unsubscribed. HELP!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:37:34 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <19990223073734.39780@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 02:05:37PM -0000, Alison Page wrote:
> Interesting that all three enthusiasts (so far) are NTP (I am ENTP). I think
> Pat and Lisa are keen and I guess they are NTJ (correct me if I'm wrong
> ladies)
I'm one of these (seemingly common here) INTJ's. Strong I, middling J,
but it seems like every second time I take the test I come up as INFJ
instead! I suppose that accounts for the fact that I'm a computer
programmer who writes poetry.
(And that the Blake's 7 characters I most empathize with are Avon and
Cally.)
> The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump
> fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild
> mannered.
Whether or not Avon is rude enough to be INTJ, he *must* be a J rather
than a P, because he's such a *planning* person. He doesn't have to
be a strong J, but he's definitely a J.
> I am amused to note that there is a mailing list for INTJ's ('I'm in hell
> and it's full of Avons' ;-) I am even more amused to note that the list is
> one of the rudest on the Internet, and that once you have subscribed they
> won't give you instructions about how to unsubscribe - you have to find out
> for yourself by investigation. Sounds just about right to me.
From my experience, I think INTJ's aggravate each other's
characteristics in close proximity. I recall six months when my
second brother and I were looking after the house when my parents were
overseas, and he's most probably an INTJ type (definitely more T than
F... he's *very* calmly unemotional about things -- I have never seen
him get upset) -- we spent a great deal of time doing "pedant jokes";
that is, making a joke of correcting each other's meaning. *We* knew
it was a joke, but we got into the habit of correcting everyone else,
and they didn't take it as a joke.
Kathryn Andersen
(A.S.K.S. -- Avon's Sympathetic Kindred Spirit)
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:06:16 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
Message-Id: <Version.32.19990222150245.01f66b90@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Neil Faulkner wrote:
>What the f--k is Myers Briggs?
A personality classification system. See:
http://www.hronline.com/lib/recruit/faq-mbti.html
http://keirsey.com/
http://typelogic.com/
for some basic info.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:10:15 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <Version.32.19990222150746.01f728a0@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
>This makes me almost afraid to ask how us ISTJ's could be recognised. I took
>the test on the internet, but when I got back the ISTJ-score, I didn't
>really recognise myself in it.
What were your rankings? If you're not strongly polarized on one or more of
the four scales, your final type can easily slide around a bit depending on
when you take the test. Usually you should take it several times over a
period of months and see what changes and what doesn't. Many people are
indeterminate between two types.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:13:03 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <Version.32.19990222151036.01f7f7c0@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>I really think he's so borderline that there's no real way to resolve it;
I agree there; he could be classed as INTx. I tend to place him as INTP,
weak P, mainly because I see him as clearly more P-ish than I am and I'm a
weak J myself. I really think he naturally falls on the P side of the
scale; the INTJ persona he tries to project never rings quite true to me.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:07:35 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <Version.32.19990222150625.01f7be30@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Calle Dybedahl wrote:
>So how would you recognise us INFPs?
Frowsy curls, very skinny, gets taken over by alien entities a lot?
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:18:52 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D1C9BB.A6613942@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Alison wrote:
> I have found that B7 has really helped me to hold my own in MBTI circles,
> despite massive gaps in my background knowledge. When a personality type
> comes up I think of the B7 equivalent, and describe that. [*]
I use it the other way 'round. A friend of mine's husband and I always fight,
cannot speak to each other without a referee. I got them to do a Myers-Briggs,
then laughed hysterically when I discovered "Oh no! He's Blake!" Wish I'd known
it sooner, I'd have known how to handle him.
> [*] For instance a
> discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of
> Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe
> haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own way',
> which was apparently a good answer.
Might have been easier to say 'tasteless megalomaniac'. <g>
> Interesting that all three enthusiasts (so far) are NTP (I am ENTP). I think
> Pat and Lisa are keen and I guess they are NTJ (correct me if I'm wrong
> ladies)
As Lisa pointed out, NTs love to analyze. I'd like to add that I read somewhere
(and it makes perfect sense to me), that, lacking much facility in the F
function, things like the MBTI help INTs understand the behaviour of others, and
try to sort out a way not to be so socially inept (with admittedly limited
results, at least in my case).
> The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump
> fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild
> mannered.
Apparently, Allison you have never been in the room when an INTP has gone
volcano <g>. We are terrifying. Perhaps some INTPs are more disciplined than
others, but INTPs repress emotions-- when they do come out, it's usually with an
explosion, and in my experience (referring not just to myself here, but other
family and friends as well), INTPs are far more likely to express negative
emotions than positive ones (positive ones being easier to repress, and also
potentially more embarrassing, since the negative ones are easier for the INTP
to justify in his mind). I can never quite decide which side of the Avon--P/J
controversy I'm on, but I'd say his occasional outbursts are an argument *for*
P, not against it.
> I am amused to note that there is a mailing list for INTJ's ('I'm in hell
> and it's full of Avons' ;-) I am even more amused to note that the list is
> one of the rudest on the Internet, and that once you have subscribed they
> won't give you instructions about how to unsubscribe - you have to find out
> for yourself by investigation. Sounds just about right to me.
<collapsing on the floor with hysteria> Cannot read this paragraph without
<collapsing again> losing it <aaaaaaaaghhhh> I think I'll print it out in big
letters and post it on my wa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-llll......
Lisa said:
> I'm standing firm that he is, by nature, an INTP who -- mostly through
> force of circumstances -- is trying to pass for an INTJ. Left to choose
> according to his own preferences, I think Avon would be quite solidly INTP.
> It's a fairly minor conflict, since the two types are so simliar
<snip>
I have to go a little off topic to explain my comment here: my best friend and I
went through the MBTI process together, and both of us had real trouble deciding
whether we were INTP or INTJ. There were two reasons for this difficulty; the
first being that we're both extremely borderline, because of about 15 years'
each of very deliberately trying to cultivate J behaviours as an antidote to
some P weaknesses that were troubling us; the second being that we idolize each
other, having sort of a mutual appreciation club, and want to be more like each
other, so we couldn't quite believe that we could possibly have the same type;
we each think of the other as more INTJ.
Back on topic: an extremely strong case can be built for Avon as INTP or as
INTJ; based on that, and on my first reason in the preceding paragraph, I have
to conclude that 1) Avon's extremely borderline on P/J and 2) Lisa's conclusion
above is extremely plausible. I tend to want to see him as INTJ; but based on my
second reason in the preceding paragraph, that could just be the fact that I
consider Avon my best role model (make of that what you will), and for that
reason just don't want to see him as the same type as myself.
Allison again:
> All in all the combination of B7 and MBTI has given me hours of harmless
> fun.
Always assuming, of course, that you can manage to think of mucking around with
other people's heads fun <very broad grin>.
Next?
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:14:34 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <Version.32.19990222151321.01f88bf0@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
VJC wrote:
>To whom do you refer?
Klaus Heinz von dem Eberbach, of the Eroica fandom. The poor dear is a born
ISTP who's been conditioned to think he's supposed to be an ISTJ. He is, as
I said, thoroughly messed up.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:48:01 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB44@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Alison said:
> My favourite exemplar of ISTJ is Data - do you think you could identify
> with him Jacqueline?
>
Data is definately not a bad second to Avon when it comes to people I could
identify with. Thanks, Alison, you just made my day. :-)
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:45:33 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB43@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Lisa asked:
> What were your rankings? If you're not strongly polarized on one or more
> of
> the four scales, your final type can easily slide around a bit depending
> on
> when you take the test. Usually you should take it several times over a
> period of months and see what changes and what doesn't. Many people are
> indeterminate between two types.
>
I forgot and I don't remember where I found that test anymore. Do you know a
site that has it? Not that I think tests really mean all that much. When I
took that test, I also took two different IQ-tests (on the same day), and
came up with at least 25 points difference between the two tests. But it is
fun to compare scores.
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:50:32 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Round Robin 33
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB45@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
> "So you *can* read my mind," Avon said with a smirk, then grew pale. "You
> know, Cally,
> picturing the person you're talking to wearing nothing but black socks is
> a common technique
> by which Earthlings overcome--"
>
This was probably as close as you could get to having to take this to the
other list :-). Loved it!
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: 22 Feb 1999 23:04:57 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <usu2weccxi.fsf@sara.lysator.liu.se>
mistral@ptinet.net writes:
> What I *really* want to know is, how does this relate to the panda
> in the frig?
Sshh! Don't mention him!
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"...a festering realization that all you do is no more than the futile
slapping of paint onto the rotting, decayed infrastructure of the
Information Superhighway." -- Jinx_tigr
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:12:49 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB46@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Thanks, Lisa, for pointing us to those tests. I just took it again, and came
out as ISTJ again. The J was a bit weak but the rest seemed very definate
(especially the T). Oh well, so I'm like Data. Or are there any ISTJ
characters on B7?
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:56:24 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <19990222225625.26730.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Alison said: >Calle said - >>So how would you recognise us INFPs?
>Hmm... Well my 'use the B7 equivalent' breaks down here, unless you
count minor characters. [snip] >If you have read 'Down with Skool' think
Fotherington Thomas.
Oh, my God! <short burst of appalled laughter> That photograph linked to
the list's home page might make Calle look a little on the ethereal
side, but I can't actually see him wandering along reciting "Hello
trees, hello sky." Being INFP myself, I like Mistral's Avon with teddy
bear idea much better. What say you, Calle?
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:52:31 -0000
From: "Jonathan" <jonathan@meanwhile.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <015f01be5f81$cfbf6740$f223883e@ming>
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I found an interesting list of fictional INTJ personalities - there were
real ones as well, but it seems fairer to compare like with like:
Fictional:
Cassius (Julius Caesar)
Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)
Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books)
Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis
Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation) [who ?]
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet)
George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy
Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)
Copyright � 1996 by Marina Margaret Heiss and Joe Butt
- Who I hope won't mind me using this. I've lost the URL, but the site's
easy to altavista and very worth looking at - the description of an
intj fits Avon perfectly. In fact if Avon isn't an intj, I can't see who is.
I'd say that Avon fits nicely in here ( right between Darcy and Lecter ?)
Servalan, whose type seemed most in dispute might feel at home as well. The
Augustus Caesar was listed as a historical intj and I remember that
Elizabeth I was a member of the club too ; on her own terms Servalan was
probably just as statesperson-like as these two - perhaps it's time for a
historical re-evaluation of her role? Main thing is, she's an intellectual,
pragmatic and wants to make the world work according to her rules -
definitively intj, she just hacks political systems rather than computers.
Speaking as an INTJ, I've always had a definite sense that she and Avon were
behaving a way that I found reasonable, unlike Blake and Cally. I can easily
imagine Shakespeare's lines about Cassius being applied to her, she stalks
Avon and co. very much in the way Smiley stalks Karla, and the Lecter thing
is fairly obvious. We may not be entirely sure that we want her, but she's
an intj, dammit !
Oh, and Avon/Servalan fans might want to read CJ Cheryth's SF novel
"Cyteen," the main character of which could well pass as the (borderline
sociopath) daughter of the pair.
PS What would really be hard would be typing Dr Who's. I'd take #1 and #4 as
intj (#4 's brilliant plan's that as often as not overlooked a single
crucial piece of the real world would seem to be definitively intj to me,
see Heiss' site), #5 as intp, #7as infj - but #6 ? and #2 ???
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:16:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
CC: <arkaroo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [B7L] Round Robin 33: Errata
Message-Id: <199902222316.QAA14091@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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Whoops! I completely forgot that Avon had Rincewind with him. Which is doubly sad given that I
was the one who wrote that plot development. So, as you watch Cally and Avon scuttling toward
the relative safety of the High Energy Magic Building, I would ask you all to mentally insert a
screeching Rincewind being dragged along by the scruff of his neck.
With Eddwode apparently starting to run the show I guess what I *really* need is a Continuity
God.
--Penny "2001 Maniacs" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:39:50 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats
Message-ID: <19990222233950.16664.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>AVON
>Sex Appeal 12 (default skill level)
>TARRANT
>Sex Appeal 13
This is the Tarrant Nostra edition, surely?
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:10:19 +1100
From: "Afenech" <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Chris Boucher fan club - was the 'Volcano' strategy
Message-Id: <23343806002265@domain0.bigpond.com>
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Mistral said:
<<I'm grateful to Terry Nation for creating B7, but I've long thought that
it was Chris Boucher who breathed life into it.>>
a not uncommon view -smile- from my perspective it is the characters which
made and continue to make B7 so engrossing and the characterisation
probably owes a great deal to Chris Boucher.
Time again to whine pathetically, why, why, why couldn't he have been
asked to write the radio plays? I know the reaon -smile- but it's so
maddening!
Pat F
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:54:55 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking...
Message-ID: <19990222235455.23371.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>Joanne was pulled over by the filk police and given a citation of merit
for:
Thank you for your confidence in me (and thank you to those who
commented), but you shouldn't be tempting me to do it again. Even if I
have a few more ideas for filks floating around in the brain right
now...
Jacqueline, are you really that bad at singing?
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:11:05 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
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Jonathon's list was good. But really you should also show a list of
fictional INTPs too for comparison. FWIW I put Sherlock Holmes and Spock as
INTP.
Harriet will be pleased that Cassius is included.
>>Servalan, whose type seemed most in dispute might feel at home as well.
Servalan is most certainly ENTJ. Remember Cassius didn't actually want to be
Caeser. Who do they put for ENTJ?
>> PS What would really be hard would be typing Dr Who's. I'd take #1 and #4
as
intj (#4 's brilliant plan's that as often as not overlooked a single
crucial piece of the real world would seem to be definitively intj to me,
see Heiss' site), #5 as intp, #7as infj - but #6 ? and #2 ???
I like to think Dr Number 4 is ENTP like me (and 'Q' ). For a start we all
have untidy curly hair and that settles it.
Dr Number 2 is perhaps INTP, or INFP?
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:38:53 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
Message-ID: <36D1F89C.7A1E54AB@ptinet.net>
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Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
> Thanks, Lisa, for pointing us to those tests. I just took it again, and came
> out as ISTJ again. The J was a bit weak but the rest seemed very definate
> (especially the T). Oh well, so I'm like Data. Or are there any ISTJ
> characters on B7?
I've seen Soolin posited an ISTP, but I'd make her a weak P, so if you're a weak
J, that might be close.
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:03:28 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <199902230102.TAA09616@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:52 PM 2/23/99 , Jonathan wrote:
>I found an interesting list of fictional INTJ personalities - there were
>real ones as well, but it seems fairer to compare like with like:
You have to remember, though, that any assignments of types to fictional
characters (or dead historical ones) are extremely debatable. I disagree
with a bunch of the ones at that site (it's the typlogic.com site), I know.
Their type descriptions aren't bad -- sketchy, but they give you an idea.
You really need the more complete ones in _Please Understand Me_ to get a
good feel for the system, though.
>the description of an intj fits Avon perfectly. In fact if Avon isn't an
>intj, I can't see who is.
I don't think so -- I think Avon is someone who is putting up a pretty good
INTJ front, but it isn't real. Some of his behavior is pure,
state-of-the-art INTP (his fascination with the Sopron, for exmaple; that
was *pure* INTP, and not INTJ). And there's the bit about INTPs having "the
haunting sense of impending failure." I just don't think Avon *really* has
the classic INTJ arrogant self-assurance. He tries very hard to project
that appearance, certainly, but I always see that "sense of impending
failure" lurking below it. "An INTP arguing a point may very well be trying
to convince himself as much as his opposition." -- I see that a lot in Avon.
>Servalan, whose type seemed most in dispute might feel at home as well.
Close, but not quite; Servalan's ENTJ. She's not an I; she needs people to
control and command. (Remember, being an E doesn't mean you *like* people;
it indicates that in some way you draw energy from being around them --
even from using them. An I thrives in solitude, and I don't think Servalan
would do well in solitude.) Read the ENTJ profile on the typelogic.com
site, or read the more detailed one in _Please Understand Me_; it's easily
Servalan.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:05:27 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <199902230102.TAA09624@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
>Or are there any ISTJ characters on B7?
Travis.
There, that made you feel better, didn't it?
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:30:36 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Servalan's temperament
Message-ID: <19990223013036.29878.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Lisa said: > An I thrives in solitude, and I don't think Servalan
>would do well in solitude.)
Heavens, yes. It would be like depriving a plant of sunlight. It might
survive, but it wouldn't necessarily thrive.
Ouch! Now I've got an image in my head of a droopy-leaved Servalan stuck
on Terminal. Down, dreadful imagination, down!
Regards
Joanne
(The I and the F are definite; everything else is subject to change
without notice <grin>)
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:45:17 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D2082B.D4C868BA@ptinet.net>
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Lisa Williams wrote:
> I don't think so -- I think Avon is someone who is putting up a pretty good
> INTJ front, but it isn't real. Some of his behavior is pure,
> state-of-the-art INTP (his fascination with the Sopron, for exmaple; that
> was *pure* INTP, and not INTJ). And there's the bit about INTPs having "the
> haunting sense of impending failure." I just don't think Avon *really* has
> the classic INTJ arrogant self-assurance. He tries very hard to project
> that appearance, certainly, but I always see that "sense of impending
> failure" lurking below it. "An INTP arguing a point may very well be trying
> to convince himself as much as his opposition." -- I see that a lot in Avon.
Lisa, I think that's a point to you-- you've convinced me-- for today at least.
Somebody mentioned the Sopron before, as evidence of INTJs 'work before play'
attitude, but I've always thought that bit indicated the INTPs 'work=play'
attitude.
The nail in the coffin, though, is "the haunting sense of impending failure"
line. Vila may always be able to sense danger, even when there isn't any, but
Avon can always sense disaster, even when there isn't any (although there
usually is). If I'd realized that was an INTP trait, I don't think I'd have ever
been in any doubt. It certainly describes me, and almost every other INTP I've
known. I can't imagine how I've missed running across it, having read everything
on the subject that I can find. I probably just overlooked it, if it's worded in
just that way. Would you be so kind as to give me the reference for that,
please?
And yes, IMHO Avon's *very* insecure. How in the Galaxy could anyone doubt it?
I very much appreciated your comment on why Servalan is an E. Many things are
now much clearer.
Going off to meditate on impending failure,
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:37:33 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <199902230234.UAA22326@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>Somebody mentioned the Sopron before, as evidence of INTJs 'work before
play'
>attitude, but I've always thought that bit indicated the INTPs 'work=play'
>attitude.
I'm associating it more with the tendency of INTPs to get all fascinated
with some intellectual tangent and to stay on it, almost obsessively, to
the exclusion of all else, until they fully understand it. INTPs focus more
on what is fascinating at the moment, regardless of the big picture. From
Keirsey & Bates (_Please Understand Me_): "INTPs can become obsessed with
analysis. Once caught up in a thought process, that thought process seems
to have a will of its own for INTPs, and they persevere until the issue is
comprehended in all its complexity." Whenever I read that, Avon and his pet
rock come to mind.
>Would you be so kind as to give me the reference for that, please?
The "impending failure" bit is from the INTP profile on the
<http://typelogic.com/> site. I've seen the same idea brought up in other
places, in particular when discussing how to tell an INTP from an INTJ --
admittedly often difficult, as the basic personalities are very similar and
many INTPs and INTJs seem to hover around the middle of the P-J scale
anyhow. To sum it up, INTJs know damned well that they're always right;
INTPs aren't quite so sure, and they waffle and second-guess themselves.
Watching Avon in "Horizon", for instance, trying to convince himself that
he can just take off and leave the others, and finally going down after
them, I see an INTP.
>I very much appreciated your comment on why Servalan is an E. Many things are
>now much clearer.
I liked this bit, from the ENTJ description on the typelogic.com site:
TRADEMARK: -- "I'm really sorry you have to die." (I realize this is an
overstatement. However, most Fs and other gentle souls usually chuckle
knowingly at this description.)
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:22:23
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990222202223.2d87fe00@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
>
>>Or are there any ISTJ characters on B7?
>
>Travis.
>
>There, that made you feel better, didn't it?
>
> - Lisa
It should -- this means you can like totally get into his head for the Flat
Robin, Jacqueline! Identify with the character! Whenever I take these tests
I always turn out to be a total unequivocal INTP, which is apparently
Myers-Briggsese for 'loser'...the one I took today, one of the sites posted
here, gave Albert Einstein and Marie Curie as examples of my species. I
gather we function best at the subatomic level. Not to say they were
losers, but I'd like a role model with a bit more pizzazz. And better hair.
--Penny "Mutants Must Rule" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:19:49 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness
Message-ID: <36D21E54.2323@jps.net>
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> And the back-biting against Jenna when she's assumed to have sold
> them out together with the total lack of any apology afterwards when
> their shown to be wrong. Surely it should have been obvious whose
> side Jenna was really on when she kicked their restraints out of sight
> of the guard without revealing that they were attempting to free
> themselves? I never understood quite what there was no reaction to
> that.
>
Um. And if they _didn't_ insult Jenna, what would the guy with her have
thought? They had to act 'natural'-- that is totally be p*ssed off at
her. It was clear she wasn't quite trusted yet; their rage necessary.
And I don't know how many of them actually noticed her notice the
restraints. I imagine Cally would, at any rate-- she tends to be aware
of her surroundings. And Blake was ready to work cooperatively with her,
so he probably realized. I can argue that Vila would be the most likely
to be aware of the need to play anger-- he's been in and out of prisons
all his life, and knows about covering for each other. Etc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:24:24 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D21F67.2D62@jps.net>
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VJC wrote:
>
> Antone interested in getting back to that interesting temperment
> analysis strand?
>
> Vick
>
> Sociopath and INTP
Always. I found it fascinating and opened up insights about myself.
I was just talking about it with my husband the other day-- he was of
the opiinion Vila might not really be an E. I think he's off base, but
does anyone else see Vila as a possible I?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:29:14 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Message-ID: <36D22089.34E6@jps.net>
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422ami wrote:
>
> Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> > I think he is incorrigible in a totalitarian environment, where
> > it is a crime to challenge authority. Where it is a crime to challenge
> > authority, then the desire comes to challenge authority through crime.
>
> Let me, basing on my own experience in living in totalitarian society, to
> say, that the usual way, one use to challenge authority _never_ is a crime.
> The crime level in the totalitarian societies is even lower, than in
> democratic ones.
But if thinking for yourself is liable to be construed as a crime, and
you can't and won't stop thinking for yourself, you _might as well_ do
some real crimes and maybe make enough money to get _out_ of there. You
could be exiled or executed for being a professor who teaches the wrong
thing.
One might point out that there has been a tendancy lately for people
under stress to do the highest level of crime-- murder. Literally going
postal-- from the fact that over-watched, oppressed postal workers were
the ones most likely to snap.
--The Avona Helen (one 'l', I think people can tell us apart)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:44:34 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D22421.7F41@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Alison Page wrote:
>
> Oi! Iain you are supposed to be INTJ. I have just said that INTJ people are
> rude and inconsiderate and then you go and say something kind and
> thoughtful. Are you trying to make me look daft or what?
>
My husband says the reason people like me, even though I'm INTJ, is that
I can't be phoney for social purposes, so when I say something nice,
they know I'm being utterly sincere.
--Avona
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:04:45 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <199902230313.VAA27339@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Penny Dreadful wrote:
>Not to say they were losers, but I'd like a role model with a bit more
>pizzazz. And better hair.
Well, I've handed you Avon on a silver-studded platter as an INTP. What
more could you ask for?
OK, so he *was* a loser. Picky, picky, picky...
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #74
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