From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:08:24 1996 Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:04:02 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #82 tariqas-digest Friday, 26 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 082 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:15:29 PST Subject: Re: physical prowess martin! :) >If you like physical activity enough to watch it on TV, why not do it? <> ... or let me rephrase that-- my question, to myself of course! :)(: If i like spiritual activity enough to read it in books, who not do it? (Perhaps 'spiritual activity' here just means an awareness of ALL activity ... as well as my intent? ... ) >To me, it seems that Asha's comment points to a key and undeniable >aspect of the SPIRITUALITY of the Olympics: "ideal of universal >brother/sisterhood, the ideal of competition through cooperation, >the ideal of one earth, one planet". Pray that i can /see/ what i desire to /see/! :) much love to all! woodsong ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:14:59 PST Subject: Quetzalcoatl The Serpentine Mind Disentangles >From the branches of confusion Uncoils it's knowledge to greet the dawn And sees In the growing light Great colored, feathered wings That grew unnoticed in its sleep Understanding perfectly In a single rush of joy It flies above the ancient promises Beyond where the forest lies To the sea The open sea As rings around the Morning Star Light corridors through the air -- Quetzalcoatl ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:57:39 -0700 Subject: Olympics (idol making) Gale wrote: > > Well.... maybe I have a very different understanding of idol making. Yes, apparently so. Lets see? Trainers fashion them. Then for the ones that prove to be endowed with higher powers (the winners), We put them up on pedistals. We cover them with gold, silver and bronze. We congragate to face them, we ritualy clap our hands. We ask for their presence (invocation) at gatherings, we ask them to bless (endorce) our possesions (products). We put them in parades and show them in one city and the next (just like the Roman Pagani once did). We invest in them local pride - my city is the home of such-n-such the greatest ever. We invest in them National Pride - Let's make Russia prowd! Well, like they say, "If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck". > I honestly don't believe anyone watching the Olympics is looking at any of the athletes > as avatars, messiahs, of Godwo/men They would not use those words but they server the same social function. >Sure, if I want to always find something to complain against, the list would be endless; To point out a fault in something is not the same as a complaint. > but >if my ignorant criticism blinds me from seeing the good in things as well, then I prefer to >see the goodness. I prefer to see things neither as good nor bad but simply the will of Allah(swt). Maybe someday I will be able to do this. > Blessings to you, Nur Jemal And more blessings to all - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:12:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Olympics of harmony, peace, beauty Jacquie Weller wrote: > > Practice being in harmony three hours a day, then increase five minutes a > day until you can spend 24 hrs in harmony with all beings. > This is the first compulsory tryout. > > Practice being peaceful to all you encounter...then increase and expand your > heart through breathing minute by minute. Seccond olympic event. > > Practice seeing beauty all around you, in everything and everyone, without > judgement, criticism, or comparison. Third olympic event. > > Marathon is being able to balance all three activities, with proper diet, > exercise, and being a human being. > > Last event, is hurdle all obstacles with love towards yourself, and > patience, and then turn this love on all around you like a spotlight of God, > giving shining grace to everything. > > Love Kaffea Lalla, And Allah is always Allah! Amin and Amen! Let the Spiritual Olympics begin! However, there is something Zen-like in the discipline required to achieve Olympic-level performance in sports. I agree with Asha's comments about the Olympics serving as an example of brother and sisterhood. It is a step forward on a long journey. And, let us not forget the function of the Olympics as a place where nations may compete in a relatively harmless manner, satisfying certain needs for national glorification without having to resort to war. (I'm not saying that national glorification is desirable -- only that many people have this need at a certain stage of development.) ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:13:41 -0500 Subject: Buring Beds and Idol Making Michael Moore wrote >I view it as idol making. It strikes me as odd that so much energy>and resource should be spent on the Olympics when people are>starving all over the world. It seems to be a total exercize>in self indulgence. Sports in gereral serve as a social soporific. >It is a dream woven by that most diabolical of dream weavers. >While we dream, our beds are burning.> Michael I agree with you and appreciate your point of view regarding idol making. That is to say whenever the notion of a national and/or international hero is in the making that is exactly what is at risk. It might however be viewed, if you permit, as a model rather then an idol, as an example which brings one into contact with qualities such as perseverance, evolution by selection, discipline and mastery. I understand when you say that you are not engaged in a right or wrong context, but rather just being able to discern the Will of Allah. But to be able to discern that Will might require a certain ability to enjoy many points of view. The notion that the sky is falling and our beds are burning is one that has haunted all of humanity throughout history. And there is a type of reality which demonstrates it to be true. There is an urgency and yet it might well be met through the Will of Allah in peace, gentleness, and love. The notion that sports are an evil seems a little displaced. Undeniably when I think of the way major leagues have become completely money oriented and therefore slaves of big business I find it horrifying. However, the notion of strengthening muscles, allowing for great mobility and fluidity in action, and going further than this through breaking the boundaries of whatever physical limitations we have thus far placed upon ourselves as a species and thus new world records being achieved I find admirable. How much more admirable it would be if it was done in the name of Allah. Well just a few decades ago it was by Mohammed Ali. Few got the point. It was badly delivered. So when he would pray publicly before he began to box became almost in appearance as part of the show. I never went to grade or high school and therefore know very little of sports. But I do find that the Olympics attempts to stand for a world united in brother and sisterhood attempting to excel. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: Bob King Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: those very urbane planners On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > yes i admit to being one of those designer types (landscape arch/designer) > who look for the place in the space ... it is a part of what Ibn Arabi > describes when speaking of the creation of form. Ultimately it leads to what > some call, making God a reality ... from the saying "Make God a reality and > He will make you the truth." Hi Asha and others who might be interested in this thread on architecture and design. I have to make a correction in the title of the book I recommended earlier -- the correct title is _Planned to Death_ (I had it as _Destruction by Design_, apt but not correct! :) Another book called _Ceramic Houses_ is worth looking at. It's about the work of a guy somewhere in the Middle East who developed a technique of building adobe/clay homes which were fired with big burners, from the inside, to turn the structures into pieces of ceramic (for purposes of withstanding earthquakes, etc. while using only local materials and affordable technology). > P.S. just read i nice little book myself called The Temple in The House ... > and though this book doesn't say so, did you know that the very idea of > having a house comes from the idea of making a place for god, not from need > for shelter. The fact is that humans have demonstrated very well that they > can live without shelter (well not you and i perhaps) but not so well without > making god a reality. Thanks for this title, it sounds good. I'm not sure what culture I'm thinking about (an Asian one, I think), but anyway dwellings are thought of in just the way you describe above -- the orientation of doorways and so forth is all done with the idea of God in mind. . . Best, Bob King ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:30:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Please Take another Look Jabriel Hanafi wrote: > The object of what it is to excel no matter how frail a thin skinned > hairless biped might be, is just another way toward mastery. If this was a technique of indivudal personal mastry, then why keep score, why have judges? Why not give medals based of effort? It is true that some are striving for their personal best and ocassionaly some lip service is paied to those athletes, but that is a minor current in a large river. > As I have > watched the gymnastic team two days ago I found myself observing the height > of what is possible physically for this body which has been extended to us > for a time. And the context demonstrated through my eyes displayed a great > degree of concentration, poise, intention, tenacity, and grace. And so might a rapest as he scales the wall of a house. > > I have been reading about everything from the question of modesty to other > statements regarding the very egocentricity involved in the arena of sports. > And of course all points of view are valid. However when one reaches toward > a height no matter what the form how can we be so arrogant as to judge. Were not the pagans who established idols in Mecca also reaching toward a height? And was the Prophet being arrogant when he judged to smash the idols? > Someone mentioned that it would be better to feed the poor, the hungry than > to support these games. > > I might point out this is the first time in a very long time that all the > countries which are participating are doing so. That in fact while they are > competing they are doing so on a basis of good will. That when a team is > winning they are manifesting to some degree an achievement not simply for > themselves or there countries but for humanity. If I understand, the argument here is that the good that comes from having an Olympics is greater than the good that would come from turning those resources directly towards the needy. Well, of course this is not quantifiable so any body is free to say whatever they wish. But, can you imagine the good will that would be felt if we were to give a billion dollars to the Palistineans who are currently dying of thirst. Sure, sometimes 'the greater good' argument is correct but it is also open to the greatest abuse. Now don't get me wrong, I am a great abuser of 'the greater good' argument. Every time I buy a CD that cost enough money to keep a Brazilian gettho family in food for a week, I say, "well, I need is so that I can be happy and healthy and as a result be more effective in the fight against hunger and evil!" May Allah have mercy on me, I am weak. > > It seems as though we who claim some sense of a path or spirituality tend to > be very judgmental. When I hear things like why don't we put the money into > feeding the hungry I cannot help think of Judas question Isa regarding > buying oil and scents with the very same questions. And he also said when a man asks for your coat, give him your shirt also. The oil was for a spiritual need, the shirt is for a physical need so the order is 1)Your spiritual requirements i.e your connection with God, 2)The physical requirements of others. Peace - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:28:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Buring Beds and Idol Making Jabriel Hanafi wrote: > > I understand when you say that you are not engaged in a right or wrong > context, but rather just being able to discern the Will of Allah. But to be > able to discern that Will might require a certain ability to enjoy many > points of view. Jabriel, I don't feel that I am engaged in being able to discern the Will of Allah. I believe that it is all the will of Allah, so discernment is a moot point. > Thank you for your patients and tolerance. - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 05:28:31 +0800 Subject: Re: Olympics On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: >Gale wrote: > >> ... if male critics are getting erections from watching the little girls >> doing acrobatics, that's their problem. > >Problem? I find this one of Allah's blessings, to be able to appreciate >beauty in all things, especially in women, young and old, big and >little, large and small. > >> For my part, I enjoy their mastery of their art. > >So do I. > >Blessings to you, Nur Jemal > >Thank you, dear one, > >tanzen > Assalamualaikum, How many broken bones the "little ones" endure before the Games. How can anyone gettting "erection" with this thoughts. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Paths in Atlanta Dear Tariqa-Siblings, As-salaam 'alaikum...Hu. Basic information request: An acquaintance of mine from Atlanta has travelled twice now to the Khizr-ically green land of Chapel Hill to attend (sohbet [discourse from the heart]) with our local Shaikh Sherif Chatalkaya. Request: if you know of Sufi Tariqas in Atlanta whose meetings are open regardless of formal religious affiliations (if possible), would you please send me the news. Thank you. Wa Salaam, Talat ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the Shaykh (fwd) asalaam-u-aleikum Greetings to all, I am back from a wonderful trip to the Bay Area. James, if you are attributing this statement to me you should not be because I didn't say this. If you are speaking for yourself, then I am happy that you are so pleased with your Sheikh. If you are saying I am a Sheikh, estaghfirullah. If you are saying that you are a Sheikh and also better than mine, I would have to disagree. For one thing, he has the gift of clear expression. I never have any doubt about what he means when he speaks. ma'salaama Lily > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 08:06:27 -0400 > > > From: James McCaig > > > Subject: Re: the Shaykh (fwd) > > > > > > My Sheikh is better than yours? Ali Haydar made the point beautifully, we > > > need only realize we are all Sheiks and more! > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > At 08:37 PM 7/15/96 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > > >asalaam-u-aleikum > > > > > > > >What I understood was that we are each responsible for making this > > > >judgement in choosing whether or not to follow a sheikh. > > > > > > > >Lily > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 07:42:46 +0700 Subject: Re: Olympics of harmony, peace, beauty At 09:45 AM 7/25/96 -0700, you wrote: >Jacquie Weller wrote: >> >> Practice being in harmony three hours a day, then increase five minutes a >> day until you can spend 24 hrs in harmony with all beings. >> This is the first compulsory tryout. >> >> Practice being peaceful to all you encounter...then increase and expand your >> heart through breathing minute by minute. Seccond olympic event. >> >> Practice seeing beauty all around you, in everything and everyone, without >> judgement, criticism, or comparison. Third olympic event. >> >> Marathon is being able to balance all three activities, with proper diet, >> exercise, and being a human being. >> >> Last event, is hurdle all obstacles with love towards yourself, and >> patience, and then turn this love on all around you like a spotlight of God, >> giving shining grace to everything. >> Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear Lalla, You really got a Sufi Master's eyes in seeing something. Well, I got this 'other' view: The athlete: myself My rivals: my satans The race: the Spiritual Journey The lane: the Straight Path The finish line: my True Self The gold medal: The "Sidrat Al-Muntaha" (God's Pressence) The spectators (who give me support): my angels The stadium: my universe The stadium, the spectator,..., and the athlete: ALLAH Wassalamu'alaykum, your racing brother, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: ennea@net-gate.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:52:53 -0400 Subject: Questioning the usefulness of the Olympics and sports I wanted to share my _opinion_ on the Olympics and professional sports in general. It being an opinion, it is VERY limited. I have always considered professional sports nearly useless. I would like to say that I consider them entirely useless but I am sure that I could find good aspects to professional sports if I were to put 'serious' thought to it. But as I now view it, I see no value of one spending thier lives pursuing a recreation as thier main focus. Gurdjieff described the atheletic behavior of striving to set new records for no good reason as an improper use of sexual energy. >From the little that I can see, this might be an accurate observation. I can see it happening in myself in my guitar playing. When I would regularly practice and play, I would set myself to playing faster and faster, technical and flashy 'riffs.' This is now a common aim of the modern guitarist. Should we create the new Olympic event of "Speed Guitar Playing?" Maybe that would put the Olympics in perspective. Sincerely, Mark Fenkner ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:48:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Burning Beds and Idol Making Michael J. Moore wrote: > > Jabriel Hanafi wrote: > > > I understand when you say that you are not engaged in a right or wrong > > context, but rather just being able to discern the Will of Allah. But to be > > able to discern that Will might require a certain ability to enjoy many > > points of view. > > I don't feel that I am engaged in being able to discern the Will of Allah. > I believe that it is all the will of Allah, so discernment is a moot point. > > > Thank you for your patience and tolerance. You guys! tanzen ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RUNI 1375 (fwd) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:54:31 -0700 From: frank gaude Organization: HighSierra Online (HSO) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5a (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i486) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Tariqas Mail List Cc: Winged Heart Mail List Subject: RUNI 1375 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'VE COME AGAIN to puncture the glory of the cosmos who mercilessly destroys humans i am the falcon hunting down the birds of black omen before their flights i gave my word at the outset to give my life with no qualms i pray to the Lord to break my back before i break my word how do you dare to let someone like me intoxicated with love enter your house you must know better if i enter i'll break all this and destroy all that if the sheriff arrives i'll throw the wine in his face if your gatekeeper pulls my hand i'll break his arm if the heavens don't go round to my heart's desire i'll crush its wheels and pull out its roots you have set up a colorful table calling it life and asked me to your feast but punish me if i enjoy myself what tyranny is this ghazal number 1375, translated March 17, 1991, by Nader Khalili tanzen ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: humor On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Martin Schell wrote: > Friends traveling to the One: > > I am interested in polling members' reactions to the following > old joke. In a few days, I will post a report of my experience > using this joke in an English class I taught at a Thai university. > > "The Chess-Playing Dog" > > I was walking down a street one day, and happened to notice a man > playing chess with his dog. > > I said to the man, "Your dog must be very smart. He can play chess!" > > He replied, "He's not so smart. I beat him 2 games out of 3." > > > Why is this joke funny? I don't think it's funny at all. I played the dog too, and lost every game! Yours, Habib ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Olympics (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:56:46 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Sayeed Siddiqui/scnm/Stentor ] >From habib@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 13:56:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA21559; Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hermes.stentor.ca ([199.243.242.4]) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05256; Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:53:39 -0400 Received: from atlas.stentor.ca (atlas.stentor.ca [192.168.169.2]) by hermes with SMTP (DuhMail/2.0) id NAA25543; Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:48:19 -0400 Received: from SMTPGTWY01.Stentor.ca by stentor.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24448; Thu, 25 Jul 96 13:50:22 EDT Received: by SMTPGTWY01.Stentor.ca (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/1.0) id AA1079; Thu, 25 Jul 96 13:58:47 -0400 Message-Id: <9607251758.AA1079@SMTPGTWY01.Stentor.ca> Received: from Stentor with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id AA37B1110262CAC0852563720060BE88; Thu, 25 Jul 96 13:58:47 To: tariqas From: Sayeed Siddiqui/scnm/Stentor Date: 25 Jul 96 13:49:37 Subject: Re: Olympics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Thanks Kaffea for such synonymous belief in Giving the Best of yourselves as the best path to create harmony. I have seen perceptions floating around like keen sea gull's vision over matters we have NO control on, so why judge, "Let it Be.." What attracts billions ought to have a meaning, One Desires only what one lacks, Se La Vie..... Fi Aman Illah Sayeed Geat stuff >>>> Practice being in harmony three hours a day, then increase five minutes a day until you can spend 24 hrs in harmony with all beings. This is the first compulsory tryout. Practice being peaceful to all you encounter...then increase and expand your heart through breathing minute by minute. Seccond olympic event. Practice seeing beauty all around you, in everything and everyone, without judgement, criticism, or comparison. Third olympic event. Marathon is being able to balance all three activities, with proper diet, exercise, and being a human being. Last event, is hurdle all obstacles with love towards yourself, and patience, and then turn this love on all around you like a spotlight of God, giving shining grace to everything. Love Kaffea Lalla, And Allah is always Allah! >>>>> ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: the Shaykh (fwd) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:06:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: Re: the Shaykh (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII asalaam-u-aleikum Greetings to all, I am back from a wonderful trip to the Bay Area. James, if you are attributing this statement to me you should not be because I didn't say this. If you are speaking for yourself, then I am happy that you are so pleased with your Sheikh. If you are saying I am a Sheikh, estaghfirullah. If you are saying that you are a Sheikh and also better than mine, I would have to disagree. For one thing, he has the gift of clear expression. I never have any doubt about what he means when he speaks. ma'salaama Lily > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 08:06:27 -0400 > From: James McCaig > Subject: Re: the Shaykh (fwd) > > My Sheikh is better than yours? Ali Haydar made the point beautifully, we > need only realize we are all Sheiks and more! > > Warm regards, > > At 08:37 PM 7/15/96 -0700, you wrote: > > > >asalaam-u-aleikum > > > >What I understood was that we are each responsible for making this > >judgement in choosing whether or not to follow a sheikh. > > > >Lily ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #82 ****************************