From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Wed Sep 18 14:24:05 1996 Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:34:36 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #134 tariqas-digest Monday, 9 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 134 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 17:14:50 +0100 Subject: Re: Love thy Neighbor >Salam to all mankind and jinns, > >Michael Moore wrote: >> >> Jacquie Weller wrote: >> > >> > I surrender my ideas about the Iraq and the USA being there. >> > Peace can only exist if people truly love their neighbor as >> > themselves. >> > Kaffea Lalla >> [...] >> Do we think that Mohammad (saws) loved everybody? Perhaps he >> did, but if so, then this particular kind of love must not >> preclude war. If he did not love everybody then are we enjoined >> to do so? > >I don't think we are able to grasp or imagine the love of Muhammad (saw) >towards living creatures. I think there are sheikh or teachers, who >by their presence alone can "transmit" this kind of love. When I >read the Beautiful Names posted to the list, I feel awed and >humble by the beauty/love in those Names. > > >> Lastly, is it really possible to love everybody as ourselves? >> I know that for me it is not. I am not even convinced that to >> do so is advisable. > >Lets try to love ones closest to us first -- our mother and father. >This taught me lot of things how to love others. > >> Salams, >> -Michael- > >salam >------------Dear Michael Jesus said love my neighbor. The task is a commandment. He said Love God with all my heart, soul, and mind. This is a commandment also. Jesus did not say who my neigbor was, but I believe it is anyone, cause he also said Love my enemy, bless those who curse me, and turn the other cheek among many things. God in me can love God in all others. Through the spirit can I love. Through myself and ego I cannot. My Mother and Father are dead. My best friend and partner is dead. I could hate God because they are dead, but I don't, Because they are alive in God as I am. I don't hate the leader of Iraq. I hate violence done to people but not the people that do violence. I was raped and abused and I do not hate these people, I pray for them to find peace and love. I forgive those who have harmed me. I have learned that bitterness leads to depression and pain and forgiveness to peace. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: pathway@dnet.net (John Womack) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 23:56:29 -0500 Subject: If Amen, Kafee Lala, America is my home too; and along with my Cherokee ancestors, I know that the Earth is our home, too; and it's inhabitants are our neigbors. Yes, we have differences - isn't that wonderful? Some of the differences show up on the Tariqus Net. Forget, for a moment, the newscasts - yes, they are awful. But consider the Tariqus Net: I don't know that I have ever heard so many different people with different religious, economic and political points of view meet in such a civil exchange. I sense differences yes, and emotion and conviction too, and yet a cautions degree of patient listening. If, just maybe, If we have the opportunity to trust each other long enough to not swing out in self-defense, we may find that we really are brothers and sisters, and that we have more to learn than we have to teach. Do we really realize that we are pioneers? And If we can learn to work with each other, maybe we can then turn our attention and sober committment toward our common mother, our deeply endangered planet that we call Earth. John. ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 19:13:18 +1000 (EST) Subject: caffeine Assalamu alaikum / Peace be with you, Does anyone know of any recommendations/non-recommendations regarding caffeine sources (coffee/tea/guarana/etc.) from a Sufi viewpoint? (I've been taking a lot of caffeine lately, and I don't think it's done me good....) Thanks, Wassalam, Fariduddien ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 21:59:18 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: caffeine Salam.The Quranic dictum is to take only what is "halalan toyyiban" that is lawful and wholesome.Even then the greatest Sufi who ever lived never took anything even vegetal things until satiation. Coffee seems to be okay but in small doses.Some take it to bring their feelings down to earth.The moment anything becomes harmful one should stop taking it.The body must be sensitive enough to send signals so listen to your body.It has the best barometer.But if the body is always full and never fasting how can you learn what the body is telling you ? It is the refined sugar in the coffee which appears to be harmful not coffee per se.Anyway Allah knows best or as they say in Arabic WallaLlahu 'alam. P/S If you need anything detail on caffeine from a Muslim medical researcher's point of view I dont mind extracting the same for you.But do let me know.I dont what to be presumptuous and send you too many materials. At 19:13 9/9/96 +1000, you wrote: > >Assalamu alaikum / Peace be with you, > >Does anyone know of any recommendations/non-recommendations regarding >caffeine sources (coffee/tea/guarana/etc.) from a Sufi viewpoint? > >(I've been taking a lot of caffeine lately, and I don't think it's >done me good....) > >Thanks, > >Wassalam, > >Fariduddien > > > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 07:01:09 -0700 Subject: RUMI 408 HOW LONG can i lament with this depressed heart and soul how long can i remain a sad autumn ever since my grief has shed my leaves the entire space of my soul is burning in agony how long can i hide the flames wanting to rise out of this fire how long can one suffer the pain of hatred of another human a friend behaving like an enemy with a broken heart how much more can i take the message from body to soul i believe in love i swear by love believe me my love how long like a prisoner of grief can i beg for mercy you know i'm not a piece of rock or steel but hearing my story even water will become as tense as a stone if i can only recount the story of my life right out of my body flames will grow RUMI, ghazal number 408, translated May 12, 1992, by Nader Khalili. tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 08:06:10 +0100 Subject: re: if Amen, Kafee Lala, America is my home too; and along with my Cherokee ancestors, I know that the Earth is our home, too; and it's inhabitants are our neigbors. Yes, we have differences - isn't that wonderful? Some of the differences show up on the Tariqus Net. Forget, for a moment, the newscasts - yes, they are awful. But consider the Tariqus Net: I don't know that I have ever heard so many different people with different religious, economic and political points of view meet in such a civil exchange. I sense differences yes, and emotion and conviction too, and yet a cautions degree of patient listening. If, just maybe, If we have the opportunity to trust each other long enough to not swing out in self-defense, we may find that we really are brothers and sisters, and that we have more to learn than we have to teach. Do we really realize that we are pioneers? And If we can learn to work with each other, maybe we can then turn our attention and sober committment toward our common mother, our deeply endangered planet that we call Earth. John. - ---------- Dear John and to the people of tariqas. I have been defensive and emotional on this issue, and we all do have more in common than I realize. I have a great deal more to learn than to teach. I think it is true we all want peace in our world. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I do trust my brothers and sisters, and we can be pioneers here. I think also I have been quite arrogant and self obsorbed. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Ellen L Price Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 08:17:56 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Bee's and Madness The "bees" were prbably yellow jackets, that do eat meat, not honey bees, which only imbibe in pollen and flower nectar. Ellen On Fri, 6 Sep 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > I was peacefully eating my chiken, oblivious to the world, when a swarm of > meat eating bee's was suddenly all over my chicken, darting between my eyes > and around my head like giant monsters in my mind. All my peace loving > ideas flew away and I grabbed a sack of stuff and swung it around my head > like david and goliath. Soon I saw I was overcome by an army of hungry angry > bees, and I grabbed my chicken and ran home, knowing that this was the only > path, the one of least resistance. Fortunately not one bee was killed and I > am now quite forgiving of my madness. Many people eyed the strange woman > circling around like a dervish with a sack of potatoes, only for a moment > she was at war. > Kaffea Lalla > > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 08:26:07 -0700 Subject: Re: If John Womack wrote: [...] > But consider the Tariqus Net: I don't > know that I have ever heard so many different people with different > religious, economic and political points of view meet in such a civil > exchange. [...] Bravo, John... encore! Love, harmony, and beauty, may the message reach far and wide, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 08:10:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Love thy Neighbor Hello, everybody! maarof wrote: > > Salam to all mankind and jinns, > > Michael Moore wrote: > > > > Jacquie Weller wrote: > > > > > > I surrender my ideas about the Iraq and the USA being there. > > > Peace can only exist if people truly love their neighbor as > > > themselves. > > > Kaffea Lalla > > [...] > > Do we think that Mohammad (saws) loved everybody? Perhaps he > > did, but if so, then this particular kind of love must not > > preclude war. If he did not love everybody then are we enjoined > > to do so? This loving your neighbor as yourself is a "problem", a stumbling block for many. Jesus is reported to have given an answer to who your neighbor is in the Parable of the Good Sumaritan, "the one who shows you mercy"! See Luke 10:37 for the punch line to loving neighbor. >From Huna sources your neighbor is anyone who helps you. (You are the neighbor to anyone you help.) And your closest neighbor is your subconscious, the child within, the friend that takes care of all your bodily functions. Could you have a closer neighbor? Start by loving your friend within, then all the rest of you, then your parents, your children, your physical neighbors, your associates, your country people, all the people of the earth, the rock people, the plants, the animals, the jinn, and the angels. There, that does it... you now love God! >From other ancient sources it is said we are placed here to "help one another". Certainly the path to truth and peace has something to do with helping one another. That seems to be what love is all about, don't you think? > I don't think we are able to grasp or imagine the love of Muhammad (saw) > towards living creatures. I think there are sheikh or teachers, who > by their presence alone can "transmit" this kind of love. When I > read the Beautiful Names posted to the list, I feel awed and > humble by the beauty/love in those Names. > > > Lastly, is it really possible to love everybody as ourselves? > > I know that for me it is not. I am not even convinced that to > > do so is advisable. I believe with all my heart that one loves others as one loves oneself. Thus one is to come to terms with just what love is, and how to love, starting first with self, and finally Self is all there is. > Lets try to love ones closest to us first -- our mother and father. > This taught me lot of things how to love others. Right on the mark, maarof! There are an infinite number of levels of "love" and the word is so overused... we start with physical love, move to mental or intellectual love, and the high love is spiritual love, or agape as the early Christians called communual love, which is Godly or brotherly/sisterly love. One thing I have been doing the last few years is to try to see the equal worth of all things, all beings, and show them that because of their worth they receive love from all quarters. When you think about it we each have worth or else we would not be of the create world. So we know that creator (Allah) loves us and we must be worthy of that love, a love beyond our senses! I say as we love ourselves we love our neighbor, period. So let's get on with loving self and soon we will love Self, all there is. The first step is to make friends with our friend within, the one carrying our history, all the "stuff" that holds us in place. > > Salams, > > -Michael- > > salam Peace, peace, peace (starting with me, O Lord), the only power, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 00:15:26 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: Love thy Neighbor Muhammad came as the Mercy unto all the Universe as such the essense of the Message of Islam is Love which is clearly discernible from the fact that the most common formula in the Quran is BismilahirRahmaanirRahmeem: In the name of Allah, (the Fount of all that is )Infinitely Merciful, Loving and Gracious.Here was a human being more modest than virgin hiding behind the curtain, the last to withdraw the hand from a handshake, the one with a smile always,whose laughter was never more than a lovely smile,who never said even "Uff" to his servant though the latter served him for years.And whose roughest language was "may his forehead be dusted" which he said to a person who wanted to kill him , who starved so that the poor could eat, who married a toothless woman past menopause with several childen , whose deeds not for one or two years but for 63 years was a testimony of an Ocean of Divine Love.Like his brother Prophet Jesus who came several hundred years ago , he was a manifestation of Divine Love.It is the search for this vacuum of not knowing Divine Love which is the unconscious drive behind all human beings.SalaLLAH 'ALAIHI WASSALAM.Your indulgence dear brothers and sisters. At 17:14 9/8/96 +0100, you wrote: >>Salam to all mankind and jinns, >> >>Michael Moore wrote: >>> >>> Jacquie Weller wrote: >>> > >>> > I surrender my ideas about the Iraq and the USA being there. >>> > Peace can only exist if people truly love their neighbor as >>> > themselves. >>> > Kaffea Lalla >>> [...] >>> Do we think that Mohammad (saws) loved everybody? Perhaps he >>> did, but if so, then this particular kind of love must not >>> preclude war. If he did not love everybody then are we enjoined >>> to do so? >> >>I don't think we are able to grasp or imagine the love of Muhammad (saw) >>towards living creatures. I think there are sheikh or teachers, who >>by their presence alone can "transmit" this kind of love. When I >>read the Beautiful Names posted to the list, I feel awed and >>humble by the beauty/love in those Names. >> >> >>> Lastly, is it really possible to love everybody as ourselves? >>> I know that for me it is not. I am not even convinced that to >>> do so is advisable. >> >>Lets try to love ones closest to us first -- our mother and father. >>This taught me lot of things how to love others. >> >>> Salams, >>> -Michael- >> >>salam >>------------Dear Michael >Jesus said love my neighbor. The task is a commandment. He said Love God >with all my heart, soul, and mind. This is a commandment also. Jesus did >not say who my neigbor was, but I believe it is anyone, cause he also said >Love my enemy, bless those who curse me, and turn the other cheek among many >things. >God in me can love God in all others. Through the spirit can I love. Through >myself and ego I cannot. My Mother and Father are dead. My best friend and >partner is dead. I could hate God because they are dead, but I don't, >Because they are alive in God as I am. I don't hate the leader of Iraq. I >hate violence done to people but not the people that do violence. I was >raped and abused and I do not hate these people, I pray for them to find >peace and love. I forgive those who have harmed me. I have learned that >bitterness leads to depression and pain and forgiveness to peace. Kaffea Lalla > > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 10:29:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Love thy Neighbor Zainuddin Ismail wrote: > [Muhammed] whose deeds not for one or two > years but for 63 years was a testimony of an Ocean of Divine Love. Like his > brother Prophet Jesus who came several hundred years ago, he was a > manifestation of Divine Love. It is the search for this vacuum of not knowing > Divine Love which is the unconscious drive behind all human beings. Thank you, Zainuddin, for the confession of faith, very beautiful! Was wondering, the 63 years, is that the earthly life span of Muhammad? I was compelled to determine the age of Jesus' at his death about a year ago and used High Self (intuition, heart) as a guide to obtaining the information. The answer: 63 earth years. Now I took that at face value until I realized that was my present age. Then you come with that same age for Muhammad! Wow, do we believe in fate or not? We are all manifestations of divine love! Since all is God how can there be something that is not divine? Pray, O Lord, send Thy peace that we all know Thee in Thy Mercy, in Thy Love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 11:44:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Love thy Neighbor Zainuddin Ismail wrote: > > Muhammad came as the Mercy unto all the Universe as such the essense of the > Message of Islam is Love which is clearly discernible from the fact that the > most common formula > in the Quran is BismilahirRahmaanirRahmeem: In the name of Allah, (the Fount > of all that is )Infinitely Merciful, Loving and Gracious.Here was a human > being more modest than virgin hiding behind the curtain, the last to > withdraw the hand from a handshake, the one with a smile always,whose > laughter was never more than a lovely smile,who never said even "Uff" to his > servant though the latter served him for years.And whose roughest language > was "may his forehead be dusted" which he said to a person who wanted to > kill him , who starved so that the poor could eat, who married a toothless > woman past menopause with several childen , whose deeds not for one or two > years but for 63 years was a testimony of an Ocean of Divine Love.Like his > brother Prophet Jesus who came several hundred years ago , he was a > manifestation of Divine Love.It is the search for this vacuum of not knowing > Divine Love which is the unconscious drive behind all human beings.SalaLLAH > 'ALAIHI WASSALAM.Your indulgence dear brothers and sisters. Dear Zainuddin, You are not the only person to have this understanding of the prophet. The problem I have is in reconciling this view against the hadiths of the prophet. For example: Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794: Narrated Anas: Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die. see http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/hadith/bukhari/082.htm I would love nothing more than for you to tell me that every hadith where Mohammad(saws) is portrayed as violent and cruel is a lie and that he never did that. I really have a difficult time seeing love in this hadith. - -Michael- ------------------------------ From: Aaron McEmrys Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 13:34:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Kaffea Lalla's question (was: pray for world peace etc.) > > Is it enough to have love in our hearts and pray that everything sorts > itself out? I just finished reading the novel "Kara Kush" by Idries Shah. It's a very good book about the partisan resistance to the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. There is an episode in there that has stuck in my mind ever since. The Eagle, a resistance leader, is trying to mount a very risky surprise attack on a soviet-held airport. If it succeeds, the Soviet war effort will be hamstrung. If not, the Afgans can look forward to many more years of suffering. The Eagle, on his journey south, stops along the way to try and get help from other partisan groups. The first stop is high in the mountains, in a remote, almost medieval monestary, where a group of "dervishes" have been living for generations with no human contact. They have heard that the Soviets will soon invade their area, and they are preparing to resist. They sit and meditate as servants bring them ancient chainmail, long cavalry swords, and antique bows. They wear beautiful helmets and mount great stallions. They look like something out of medieval myth. They ride out of the monestary in a dazzling spectacle of chivalry. They are doomed of course, the russians have assault helicopters, machine guns, tanks, and thousands of men. The Eagle continues his journey. He stays for a while with a very powerful Pashtun warlord, the uncontested leader of 30,000 warriors. The warlord is very supportive of the Eagle, and talks incessantly of his hatred for the Russians. He is, however, unable to give any of his men at this time - they are not quite well-equipped enough yet - he wants to wait until he is *sure* they can win. The Eagle comes down from the mountains and is moving toward the airport, still unsure of exactly *how* he is going to take the airport. When they are only a few miles from the airport, several Russian armored personael carriers approach them at top speed. The Eagle orders his men to get ready to fight, but not to open fire. A young officer in a Russian uniform jumps out of the lead car - and reports for duty! He, and over a hundred Russian soldiers have deserted from the army, after planning their defection for months. They had only been waiting for the right moment. Hearing that Kara Kush, the Eagle, was going to attack the airport, they came to help - knowing nothing about Kara Kush, except that he was fighting to free his people. To me, it seems that some kind of action is necessary - but the tough part is identifying "right" action. Prayer is action. > > Is it possible to take up such concerns while on a spiritual path? Is it > possible not to? > > peace and blessings to all > > Lily I've come to suspect that all this conflict in the outside world is just a reflection of the conflict in our inner worlds, or vise versa. I complain a lot about the government, and wonder how on earth all these people get elected. Then I look inside myself - and reluctantly admit that what I despise in politicians, is present in me too, maybe all humans. One step is to strive to eliminate the concept of seperation, of "outer space" and "innerspace" being so different from each other. By approaching both tasks the same way, and assigning them the same level of importance? Of course, it's easy to *say* this kind of thing... ------------------------------ From: Aaron McEmrys Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 12:43:35 -0700 Subject: Re: World Peace Jesa Macbeth wrote: > > At 04:19 PM 07/09/1996 -0700, you wrote: > > Point Taken! Thanks for noticing. > > > > Aaron > > You're more than welcome. I was just swithering about whether or not I > wanted to stay subscribed to this list - I've only been on a few days. > Thanks for validating my decision to do so. > > With love, > > Jesa Please do stay on! If you hadn't brought this to my attention, maybe no one would have. This kind of feedback is very important to me. For me, reading sufic books is not an entirely pleasant experience. I love the stories, the poetry, the feeling of expansion - but at the same time, I always feel a little upset (as a plate or vessel can be upset). I find myself questioning everything as I read; how does this apply to me? Do I show these traits, these follies and impediments? - Oh, I think I *do* possess this positive trait (pride) - or am I asking all these questions of myself in part, because I believe that's what a sufi student is *supposed* to do? Why do I reach so hard for learning? Is it just a natural path for me, or because I want it to help me turn into somebody other than myself? I digress like this to thank you for giving me a mirror to see more clearly in - because what I see in books is still colored by what I want to see, expect to see, don't want to see etc...- a human voice works on a whole different level . You answered me when I wasn't even *asking* a question! love, Aaron ------------------------------ From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:17:06 -0400 Subject: Righteous in hell to all, I have found a reference to the Qur'an, of a verse describing the righteous in hell, and it is understood to suggest that the righteous are willing to go even into the worst of situations in acting from great tenderness, love, and compassion. Does anyone know the verse(s) that this might be about? thank you. in peace, Jinavamsa ------------------------------ From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:34:29 -0400 Subject: Re: caffeine In a message dated 96-09-09 10:03:20 EDT, you write: >P/S If you need anything detail on caffeine from a Muslim medical >researcher's point of view I dont mind extracting the same for you.But do >let me know.I dont what to be presumptuous and send you too many materials. >At 19:13 9/9/96 +1000, you wrote: >> >>Assalamu alaikum / Peace be with you, >> >>Does anyone know of any recommendations/non-recommendations regarding >>caffeine sources (coffee/tea/guarana/etc.) from a Sufi viewpoint? >> >>(I've been taking a lot of caffeine lately, and I don't think it's >>done me good....) >> >>Thanks, >> >>Wassalam, >> >>Fariduddien >> well, seeing such sources certainly might be interesting. Nice to get something from other than New Age reality every once in a while! There was an old story that it was a Sufi who discovered coffee, that is, who realized that there was a use of this little bean, to increase attentiveness (Sufis being children of the present moment and all)... don't remember his name off-hand. it's true that being aware of the body and its signals helps here (as elsewhere). Still, it sometimes takes a few minutes for the signals to start. Drinking slowly and waiting before going for seconds (esp. at an espresso bar!) can help here. going from the sublime to the practical in one leap! in peace, heart beating at just the right pace, regularly, :) Jinavamsa ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #134 *****************************